Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
As an OGH developer, I've seen specs range from 'gimme something that works' to docs the size of phonebooks. No matter how they're presented, specs are only the starting point for understanding what needs to be built. Screen shots are as good a starting point as anything else: they show how the user understands their process. However it starts, by the end of a design phase, the list of requirements should be understood by everyone involved. I am NOT a Scrum Master (I only sound like one in meetings), but I have been on Agile teams in several client organizations. When it works, which has been most places, it works well for ARS teams. Agile takes the app dev cycle from years to days; you don't get as much done in a cycle, but you get more of them. It also helps larger projects with armies of developers. A few screen shots can become prototype forms very quickly. Reviewing prototype forms opens the discussion for workflow requirements. Several short cycles later, the prototype proves all the concepts and has identified 'real' specs. The end result will certainly be different than the original screen shots: it will have workflow! HTH, Joel Joel Senderjdsen...@earthlink.net310.829.5552 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:00 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** I always say: It's like building the house without the blue prints, it doesn't work.. On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:56 AM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.gov wrote: ** I've written several applications from elaborate requirements documents that make no reference whatsoever as to what the finished app should look like. Screenshots only would be a refreshing change compared to that. _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Susan Palmer Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:53 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Oh yea 'agile' development ... went through that here a few years back it was not a pleasant experience on the Remedy side especially if you like to do your work once with maybe occasional changes. You all overlooked something even more basic than not knowing what the processes are required behind the field for workflow ... what's the character length? I love custom applications (mine) but I can tell you that after 10 years of working in it from birth to current I would love to rewrite it and take out all the 'stuff' everyone had to have 'right now'. After a while it's very hard to extract things that don't get used. And, there never seems to be the time! Susan On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.gov wrote: snip ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Heh. Parts of it... maybe. This happens all the time. I've learned to make guesses at the processes behind screenshots. When the guesses are wrong I have an opening to talk with the customer about writing down the things they haven't said. This happens on any team that doesn't understand the role of the analyst in software engineering. -al -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:06 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Done it more times than I can count. It's much easier than customizing the OOB. R _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Hi, Well, it would at least be a good starting point. Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Sure but not necessarily one that works as required. J Screenshots are good for storyboarding or showing you exiting GUI layout, but doesn't show you how and when actions/processes are triggered. Plus, start with some Business Process analysis, to identify the high level process and eliminate inefficiencies in the current model/design. Often users want you to produce what they had previous - that is never beneficial in my opinion. Regards, Andrew C. Goodall Software Engineer Development Services ago...@jcpenney.com jcpenney 6501 Legacy Drive Plano, TX 75024 jcp.com From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM To: arslist@arslist.org Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ font face=monospacesize=-3brThe information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and brmay contain confidential and/or privileged material. If the reader of this message is not the intendedbrrecipient, you are hereby notified that your access is unauthorized, and any review, dissemination,brdistribution or copying of this message including any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are notbrthe intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.br ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Based solely off of the screenshots?...not likely. You may be able to build something that 'looks' the same, but screenshots don't communicate functionality, intent, or anything really important about an application, other than it's look and feel, and you can't even get that properly without a 'demo'. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:06 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
No way. How would you know how to build menus or workflow interacting those screens? Rick On Aug 16, 2012 2:12 PM, Misi Mladoniczky m...@rrr.se wrote: Hi, Well, it would at least be a good starting point. Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
If you're into prototyping, sure... why not? I hear that's part of agile development now. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
I had a similar challenge at my last company where they wanted their customized 5.5 apps ported into 7.5 . It was a great time to review processes and see where they could be improved instead of staying in the stone-age. We still ended up with some forms that looked a lot like the old 5.5 apps. I just picked which battle was more easily won and only duplicated forms where there was no OOB process that would satisfy the business requirements. Tommy Morris CMDB Certified Specialist Director of IT Service Management [cid:image001.png@01CD7BB5.D583E3E0]http://www.pinebreeze.com/ tommy.mor...@pinebreeze.comhttps://exg5.exghost.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=1d40184b0dc44e86917981c2ecb56197URL=mailto%3atommy.morris%40pinebreeze.com 817.727.1021 - mobile 972.899.2366 - office 972.899.2898 - fax From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David M. Clark Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:33 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** If you're into prototyping, sure... why not? I hear that's part of agile development now. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]mailto:[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.comhttp://www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.comhttp://www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are inline: image001.png
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Oh yea 'agile' development ... went through that here a few years back it was not a pleasant experience on the Remedy side especially if you like to do your work once with maybe occasional changes. You all overlooked something even more basic than not knowing what the processes are required behind the field for workflow ... what's the character length? I love custom applications (mine) but I can tell you that after 10 years of working in it from birth to current I would love to rewrite it and take out all the 'stuff' everyone had to have 'right now'. After a while it's very hard to extract things that don't get used. And, there never seems to be the time! Susan On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.govwrote: ** If you’re into prototyping, sure… why not? I hear that’s part of “agile development” now. ** ** -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Robert Heverley *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** ** ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
I've written several applications from elaborate requirements documents that make no reference whatsoever as to what the finished app should look like. Screenshots only would be a refreshing change compared to that. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Susan Palmer Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:53 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Oh yea 'agile' development ... went through that here a few years back it was not a pleasant experience on the Remedy side especially if you like to do your work once with maybe occasional changes. You all overlooked something even more basic than not knowing what the processes are required behind the field for workflow ... what's the character length? I love custom applications (mine) but I can tell you that after 10 years of working in it from birth to current I would love to rewrite it and take out all the 'stuff' everyone had to have 'right now'. After a while it's very hard to extract things that don't get used. And, there never seems to be the time! Susan On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.govmailto:david.m.cl...@tn.gov wrote: ** If you're into prototyping, sure... why not? I hear that's part of agile development now. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Robert Heverley Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.comhttp://www.wwrug.com/ ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.comhttp://www.wwrug.com/ ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
I always say: It's like building the house without the blue prints, it doesn't work.. On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:56 AM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.govwrote: ** I’ve written several applications from elaborate requirements documents that make no reference whatsoever as to what the finished app should look like. Screenshots only would be a refreshing change compared to that. ** ** -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Susan Palmer *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:53 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** ** ** Oh yea 'agile' development ... went through that here a few years back it was not a pleasant experience on the Remedy side especially if you like to do your work once with maybe occasional changes. You all overlooked something even more basic than not knowing what the processes are required behind the field for workflow ... what's the character length? I love custom applications (mine) but I can tell you that after 10 years of working in it from birth to current I would love to rewrite it and take out all the 'stuff' everyone had to have 'right now'. After a while it's very hard to extract things that don't get used. And, there never seems to be the time! Susan On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.gov wrote: ** If you’re into prototyping, sure… why not? I hear that’s part of “agile development” now. -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Robert Heverley *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
Re: Building A Custom Application (Just Checking)
Hi Susan, GREAT response..!! On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Susan Palmer suzanpal...@gmail.comwrote: ** Oh yea 'agile' development ... went through that here a few years back it was not a pleasant experience on the Remedy side especially if you like to do your work once with maybe occasional changes. You all overlooked something even more basic than not knowing what the processes are required behind the field for workflow ... what's the character length? I love custom applications (mine) but I can tell you that after 10 years of working in it from birth to current I would love to rewrite it and take out all the 'stuff' everyone had to have 'right now'. After a while it's very hard to extract things that don't get used. And, there never seems to be the time! Susan On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM, David M. Clark david.m.cl...@tn.govwrote: ** If you’re into prototyping, sure… why not? I hear that’s part of “agile development” now. ** ** -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Robert Heverley *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:06 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Building A Custom Application (Just Checking) ** ** ** Hello Listers, I just want to know your opinion on something. If you were handed a bunch of screenshots, could you build an application..?? Thank you..!! Robert Heverley _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: Where the Answers Are
