Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Users and groups are cached at startup. I am sure there are other factors, but I know that's one variable. Rick On Feb 19, 2014 4:58 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
I agree with the object count. Out older 7.6.04 servers with custom apps and HD takes 30 seconds to start. Our 8.1. ITSM servers take 2.5 minutes to start. Roughly guessing, there are probably about 4x the number of objects in our ITSM systems. Also our User count in ITSM vs. old system is about 15:1. Not sure about the Group count but I am figuring it is considerably higher in ITSM as well. You can log what is happening regarding the arsystem process at start up time by adding -t (working from memory here) to the line that starts the arserver process in armonitor.cfg. Jason On Feb 19, 2014 6:15 AM, LJ LongWing lj.longw...@gmail.com wrote: ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
I recently had a client experiencing ~15-20 minute startup times for each server. Turned out to be an issue with McAfee. The On Access scan was trying (unsuccessfully) to scan each plugin dll as it was loaded. Causing the system to hang until McAfee timed out. Stopping McAfee while starting ARS reduced the start time to 3 minutes. Jason L Bess, MCSE/RSP/ITILv3 BMC Remedy ITSM Consultant On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:18:48 AM UTC-5, Pierson, Shawn wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I’ve seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I’d think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC’s increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren’t used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I’ve seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I’d think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC’s increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren’t used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I’m swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It’s been a while since I’ve worked with Remedy on Unix but I don’t recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed here. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed here. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Another thing to keep in mind is fragmentation of the ARS data dictionary. During startup, (I'm 99% sure that) ARS pulls the entire data dictionary into memory. Over time, as you implement changes and unless you've taken steps to mitigate the problem, the DD will become increasingly fragmented. I'm a little out of my depth on this, but it seems to make sense that if you have a very large database, this can mean that the DD data is spread throughout your tens/hundreds/thousands of GB of user data, and that in turn can mean that it takes the DB a while to gather it all up during startup. Preventative mitigation strategies would include sequestering the DD tables so that this can't happen. I'm getting much further out of my depth, but I have a vague recollection that you used to somehow be able to direct ARS how to use Oracle segments, though I don't recall the granularity of this and don't know if the configuration mechanism still exists (I've dabbled a bit I'm far from being an Oracle DBA). And while I'm not a SQL server DBA either, I'm much more familiar with it as a database, and I can see how with a bit of manual effort you could certainly sequester the ARS DD tables into their own filegroup. A reactive strategy (i.e. relieve existing fragmentation) would be to copy-restore the DB, or at least the ARS tables. -charlie On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Based on the feedback here and off the list, would you all consider a start time between 2 - 3 minutes to be acceptable? I'm used to seeing a pretty long start time but after upgrading to 8.1 it does take a little more than two minutes, being just enough time for Windows to display an error about the service taking too long to start. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Suresh Loganathan Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:40 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.commailto:taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Talking with a person from BMC Professional Services just yesterday he mentioned we can expect our start time to increase once we start running in a server group; that our 2.5 minutes might end up being closer to 5 in a server group (still way better than the 20-30 minutes we use to see people on Oracle mention year ago). Jason On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Based on the feedback here and off the list, would you all consider a start time between 2 - 3 minutes to be acceptable? I'm used to seeing a pretty long start time but after upgrading to 8.1 it does take a little more than two minutes, being just enough time for Windows to display an error about the service taking too long to start. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Suresh Loganathan *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:40 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
In our server group configuration start up of each server takes about 8-9 minutes, but that's due to partly BMC delivering our solution with every language pack under the sun installed as well, which we don't use. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 7:29 a.m. To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Based on the feedback here and off the list, would you all consider a start time between 2 - 3 minutes to be acceptable? I'm used to seeing a pretty long start time but after upgrading to 8.1 it does take a little more than two minutes, being just enough time for Windows to display an error about the service taking too long to start. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Suresh Loganathan Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:40 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.commailto:taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Originally our time was about 15 minutes. For some reason, maybe it was moving from one patch to another it is now down to 7-9 minutes! ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 ARS 7.6.04 SP4 Oracle 11.2.0.3.0 - 64bit Production Win 2008 Server Claire Sanford Information Systems Division Memorial Hermann Healthcare System claire.sanf...@memorialhermann.org From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jason Miller Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Talking with a person from BMC Professional Services just yesterday he mentioned we can expect our start time to increase once we start running in a server group; that our 2.5 minutes might end up being closer to 5 in a server group (still way better than the 20-30 minutes we use to see people on Oracle mention year ago). Jason On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Based on the feedback here and off the list, would you all consider a start time between 2 - 3 minutes to be acceptable? I'm used to seeing a pretty long start time but after upgrading to 8.1 it does take a little more than two minutes, being just enough time for Windows to display an error about the service taking too long to start. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Suresh Loganathan Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:40 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.commailto:taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
The fastest I have seen are 30 sec restart time for a non-ITSM ARS instance including server group. 3.5 min restart for a full ITSM instance including server group. Everytime I see longer restart times it is due to bad network card config,non-full duplex connection,ars and db are not on same subnet, firewall in between ars and db,view forms with dblinks to remote dbs. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Tauf Chowdhury Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Hi Simon, You may want to look into this utility if you are not using the language packs: https://communities.bmc.com/docs/DOC-27876 _ Kind Regards, Carl Wilson http://www.missingpiecessoftware.com/ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Simon Ellis Sent: 19 February 2014 19:58 To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** In our server group configuration start up of each server takes about 8-9 minutes, but that's due to partly BMC delivering our solution with every language pack under the sun installed as well, which we don't use. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 7:29 a.m. To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Based on the feedback here and off the list, would you all consider a start time between 2 - 3 minutes to be acceptable? I'm used to seeing a pretty long start time but after upgrading to 8.1 it does take a little more than two minutes, being just enough time for Windows to display an error about the service taking too long to start. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Suresh Loganathan Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:40 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Which is why object relationships should only be enabled on non-production servers. Rick On Feb 19, 2014 1:13 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Tauf Chowdhury *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Joe, I'm not entirely sure that your statement regarding Object Relationships during startup is correct. I can guarantee you that on startup, if you have the box checked, and the objects aren't built...it builds them, that is 100% true, but management of those records is done while the server is online, as relationships change, not during startupso I'm not entirely sure having them turned on has any impact on startup times, beyond the time it takes to build the relationships on the initial startup. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Tauf Chowdhury *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Good point. Most sites I have worked at, it was done only on development servers while on production servers, the object forms had no data. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Cook Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:19 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Which is why object relationships should only be enabled on non-production servers. Rick On Feb 19, 2014 1:13 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Tauf Chowdhury Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Thanks Carl... been hunting high and low for information on that From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Carl Wilson Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 10:17 a.m. To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Hi Simon, You may want to look into this utility if you are not using the language packs: https://communities.bmc.com/docs/DOC-27876 Kind Regards, Carl Wilson http://www.missingpiecessoftware.com/ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Simon Ellis Sent: 19 February 2014 19:58 To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** In our server group configuration start up of each server takes about 8-9 minutes, but that's due to partly BMC delivering our solution with every language pack under the sun installed as well, which we don't use. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 7:29 a.m. To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Based on the feedback here and off the list, would you all consider a start time between 2 - 3 minutes to be acceptable? I'm used to seeing a pretty long start time but after upgrading to 8.1 it does take a little more than two minutes, being just enough time for Windows to display an error about the service taking too long to start. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Suresh Loganathan Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:40 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.commailto:taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
I should have mentioned that this happens only on the first run after it is enabled. After which it only builds the delta. And as Rick pointed out, this need not be enabled on production servers. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:22 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Joe, I'm not entirely sure that your statement regarding Object Relationships during startup is correct. I can guarantee you that on startup, if you have the box checked, and the objects aren't built...it builds them, that is 100% true, but management of those records is done while the server is online, as relationships change, not during startupso I'm not entirely sure having them turned on has any impact on startup times, beyond the time it takes to build the relationships on the initial startup. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Tauf Chowdhury Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed here http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
No, the Delta is NOT built on future reboots, the Delta is managed during code changes 'real time'. I have enabled this on all of my production servers since it became a feature, and I don't experience issues, other than a slowdown during code changes while it updates the references :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** I should have mentioned that this happens only on the first run after it is enabled. After which it only builds the delta. And as Rick pointed out, this need not be enabled on production servers. Joe -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:22 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Joe, I'm not entirely sure that your statement regarding Object Relationships during startup is correct. I can guarantee you that on startup, if you have the box checked, and the objects aren't built...it builds them, that is 100% true, but management of those records is done while the server is online, as relationships change, not during startupso I'm not entirely sure having them turned on has any impact on startup times, beyond the time it takes to build the relationships on the initial startup. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Tauf Chowdhury *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Watch the sql logs on startup and you will find ypur answer. Look at the queruwles, data beingbreturned and ask yourself if it makes sense. You can get it to start faster by deletung all the objects on the server. Last time I looked, the long startup time has less to do with the cache operation and more to do with by je db retrieval operation. It used to retrieve data from the db like field_dispprop x times, where x equals field_dispprop / 1000. Itbwouldbretrieve the entire table to load 1kbrows into cache. Itbwould repeat this until al. Rows were loaded. It would do similarvfor arschema, field, group, etc. Not surebif this still holds true or not today, but the sql logs will confirm. On Feb 19, 2014 6:58 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I’m swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It’s been a while since I’ve worked with Remedy on Unix but I don’t recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
We do not notice a difference between production with or without object relationships turned on either. For the upgrade last weekend we turned off relationships so all of the upgrade def imports would not be impacted by the need to record the changes. The start time was about 2 1/2 minutes with relationships off and with them on (of course after that first time when they were built after the upgrade). We didn't have them on in production until the last year or so. Haven't noticed any issues. Jason On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:23 PM, LJ LongWing lj.longw...@gmail.com wrote: ** No, the Delta is NOT built on future reboots, the Delta is managed during code changes 'real time'. I have enabled this on all of my production servers since it became a feature, and I don't experience issues, other than a slowdown during code changes while it updates the references :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** I should have mentioned that this happens only on the first run after it is enabled. After which it only builds the delta. And as Rick pointed out, this need not be enabled on production servers. Joe -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:22 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Joe, I'm not entirely sure that your statement regarding Object Relationships during startup is correct. I can guarantee you that on startup, if you have the box checked, and the objects aren't built...it builds them, that is 100% true, but management of those records is done while the server is online, as relationships change, not during startupso I'm not entirely sure having them turned on has any impact on startup times, beyond the time it takes to build the relationships on the initial startup. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Tauf Chowdhury *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, *Shawn Pierson * Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *LJ LongWing *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
I've barely used the object relationship in recent times due to past issues with that feature, so did not notice that. I had stopped using it at a time when it used to rebuild the entire database tables - I knew that had changed a few years ago where it only did a delta upon syncing changes but didn't know it had become real time. Thanks for the insight. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:24 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** No, the Delta is NOT built on future reboots, the Delta is managed during code changes 'real time'. I have enabled this on all of my production servers since it became a feature, and I don't experience issues, other than a slowdown during code changes while it updates the references :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** I should have mentioned that this happens only on the first run after it is enabled. After which it only builds the delta. And as Rick pointed out, this need not be enabled on production servers. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:22 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Joe, I'm not entirely sure that your statement regarding Object Relationships during startup is correct. I can guarantee you that on startup, if you have the box checked, and the objects aren't built...it builds them, that is 100% true, but management of those records is done while the server is online, as relationships change, not during startupso I'm not entirely sure having them turned on has any impact on startup times, beyond the time it takes to build the relationships on the initial startup. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Tauf Chowdhury Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
Team, Check your database and ARS VLAN setting, if both are set to same VLAN can save on startup time significantly. Best Regards, Manish Singla ST-ICT-SCC; Application Group Manager REMEDY/ARIS/CAS/STAM/DCF/Metrics Application Direct: +91 121 400 6247 TINA: 199-6247 Mobile: +91 98107 98076 [cid:image001.png@01CF2E07.0DC0ED70] From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Suresh Loganathan Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:10 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Team, Recently faced the same. followed felow points then i got BMC support. 1. Taken arstartup log to check the time consuming. 2. sent the ar.conf file. BMC recommended to change some configuration setting. 3. Apart from remedy end, need a support from network and SQL Team. 4. please check our BMC communities for this KB Article. Regards, Suresh Loganathan On Feb 19, 2014 9:45 PM, Tauf Chowdhury taufc...@gmail.commailto:taufc...@gmail.com wrote: ** I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during the startup. As Rick points out, the main thing that Remedy is doing is pulling metadata out of the DB and storing it in RAM. So, there is a direct correlation between how many forms/fields/etc that you have, and how quickly you can get them out of the DB and into memory that determines how quickly your Remedy starts. Do you have that dedicated Fiber channel between your DB and App server that Remedy recommends? :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.commailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** Since I have nothing better to do (just kidding, I'm swamped) I wanted to see if anyone on the list had a good explanation for something that has been an issue across multiple versions of Remedy for years. Specifically, on Windows, why does it take so long for Remedy to start up, and is there anything that can be done to make it load faster without sacrificing performance or functionality? If someone has found a way to get it to start up in less than 30 seconds, you should be given a job by BMC. It's been a while since I've worked with Remedy on Unix but I don't recall it taking as long to start as it does on Windows. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ Private and confidential as detailed herehttp://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx. If you cannot access hyperlink, please e-mail sender. _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years inline: image001.png
Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start?
I wouldn't think that object relationships would have an issue on server start-up (other than the first time it is built). I was under the impression that this is something that is loaded and referenced on demand by Developer Studio. While it certainly does affect the size of your database, I wouldn't think that the BMC developers would load the relationships into the remedy server process memory (on startup) in the event that someone might need it in the future when they run Developer Studio and invoke Object Relationships. This would be incredibly inefficient. Just saying. Terry _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jason Miller Sent: February-19-14 6:44 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** We do not notice a difference between production with or without object relationships turned on either. For the upgrade last weekend we turned off relationships so all of the upgrade def imports would not be impacted by the need to record the changes. The start time was about 2 1/2 minutes with relationships off and with them on (of course after that first time when they were built after the upgrade). We didn't have them on in production until the last year or so. Haven't noticed any issues. Jason On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:23 PM, LJ LongWing lj.longw...@gmail.com wrote: ** No, the Delta is NOT built on future reboots, the Delta is managed during code changes 'real time'. I have enabled this on all of my production servers since it became a feature, and I don't experience issues, other than a slowdown during code changes while it updates the references :) On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** I should have mentioned that this happens only on the first run after it is enabled. After which it only builds the delta. And as Rick pointed out, this need not be enabled on production servers. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:22 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Joe, I'm not entirely sure that your statement regarding Object Relationships during startup is correct. I can guarantee you that on startup, if you have the box checked, and the objects aren't built...it builds them, that is 100% true, but management of those records is done while the server is online, as relationships change, not during startupso I'm not entirely sure having them turned on has any impact on startup times, beyond the time it takes to build the relationships on the initial startup. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Joe D'Souza jdso...@shyle.net wrote: ** This one is true - it is because on Oracle, during the startup, the database is read in chunks (100 rows at a time if I recall right) which I believe is a Oracle client limitation. Another factor affecting startup time is if you have enabled object relationship. This is gathered during startup and could delay startup by several minutes. Joe _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Tauf Chowdhury Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? I recall a while back someone explained that there is also a difference between SQL and Oracle DB where The ITSM env on Oracle takes longer to start than SQL Server Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2014, at 10:18 AM, Pierson, Shawn shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com wrote: ** You bring up a good point. From what I've seen the CPU and RAM are never too high even when starting up, and the database connection should actually be a decent connection (both servers are on the same switch, which I can tell thanks to ADDM) but I'd think that probably is one of the limiting factors of startup. My suspicion is that BMC's increasing reliance on plugins, which seem to be black boxes that are hard to gain visibility into, is a major factor as well. It would be an interesting test to have two pieces of the same hardware with AR System installed, one with the full ITSM, another without ITSM (but for charity include the supporting AR System modules like Approval that normally aren't used in fully custom shops) but with an equal number of forms, groups, and users, and time the startup times of both. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:15 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Why does the ARS Service take so long to start? ** Shawn, In later versions of Remedy, you have the options to utilize multiple threads during
