[AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
I think that NJ is the only state that has beach badges. At least, I've never encountered badges anywhere else. The law in NJ says, all tidal lands and water from the high water mark seaward is public. Access may occasionally be restricted based on private ownership, shore armoring (bulkheads, groins, seawalls) and public safety issues. http://tinyurl.com/66l6y7 That is a link to the public access study I found and quoted above. www.crabnj.com There's an advocacy group called Citizens Right to Access Beaches (CRAB) that was founded when Point Beach's only municipally owned public access beach was developed into a supposedly upscale private community. I say supposedly because it is so damn ugly. Anyway, the upscale community claimed sole access to the beach and didn't want the great unwashed coming through to use their beach. CRAB doesn't seem to want free beaches. They don't want to lose the ability to get to the beach at all. FYI - There's also history here. Until about 25 years ago, the Ocean county shore towns of Bay Head and Mantoloking did not allow non-residents on their beach. I grew up within walking distance of the Bay Head beach, but I lived in Point Boro. We weren't allowed on their beach during guarded hours. A NJ supreme court decision changed that (Matthews v. Bay Head Improvement Association). Anyone can buy a badge in beautiful Bay Head now. It's a bitch to park and you can't get a soda or use a bathroom, but you can go. Maybe you can make friends with someone who owns a house and they'll let you use their bathroom. So I looked up Matthews v. Bay Head Improvement Association and here is the decision. Apparently Sophie can sit on the dry sand. In New Jersey the courts have recognized the public trust doctrine to give all residents access to the state's public trust land. Recently, the courts expanded the public's right to include use of the dry-sand beach (Matthew v. Bay Head Improvement Association, 471 A. 2d 355 (1984)). In that case, town residents sued the beach association and beachfront property owners asserting that defendants denied public its right of access to public trust lands on the beaches in the municipality and its right to use private property fronting on the ocean incidental to public's right under the public trust doctrine. The court held the public must be given both access to and use of privately owned dry sand areas as reasonably necessary under the public trust doctrine. The court noted that it did not need to rely on legal theories used in other jurisdictions such as prescriptive easements or customary law. Rather it decided to simply modify the public trust doctrine to reflect the reality of the times that people need to use the dry-sand beach to enjoy the area below the high water mark. The court stated that [a] rchaic judicial responses are not an answer to a modern social problem. Rather, we perceive the public trust doctrine not to be fixed or static, but one to be molded and extended to meet changing conditions and needs of the public it was created to benefit. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
Yes you have public access but the beach badge is for your groinbulkhead or seawall. From: Jennifer jennifern...@yahoo.com To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:04:24 AM Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link) I think that NJ is the only state that has beach badges. At least, I've never encountered badges anywhere else. The law in NJ says, all tidal lands and water from the high water mark seaward is public. Access may occasionally be restricted based on private ownership, shore armoring (bulkheads, groins, seawalls) and public safety issues. http://tinyurl. com/66l6y7 That is a link to the public access study I found and quoted above. www.crabnj.com There's an advocacy group called Citizens Right to Access Beaches (CRAB) that was founded when Point Beach's only municipally owned public access beach was developed into a supposedly upscale private community. I say supposedly because it is so damn ugly. Anyway, the upscale community claimed sole access to the beach and didn't want the great unwashed coming through to use their beach. CRAB doesn't seem to want free beaches. They don't want to lose the ability to get to the beach at all. FYI - There's also history here. Until about 25 years ago, the Ocean county shore towns of Bay Head and Mantoloking did not allow non-residents on their beach. I grew up within walking distance of the Bay Head beach, but I lived in Point Boro. We weren't allowed on their beach during guarded hours. A NJ supreme court decision changed that (Matthews v. Bay Head Improvement Association) . Anyone can buy a badge in beautiful Bay Head now. It's a bitch to park and you can't get a soda or use a bathroom, but you can go. Maybe you can make friends with someone who owns a house and they'll let you use their bathroom. So I looked up Matthews v. Bay Head Improvement Association and here is the decision. Apparently Sophie can sit on the dry sand. In New Jersey the courts have recognized the public trust doctrine to give all residents access to the state's public trust land. Recently, the courts expanded the public's right to include use of the dry-sand beach (Matthew v. Bay Head Improvement Association, 471 A. 2d 355 (1984)). In that case, town residents sued the beach association and beachfront property owners asserting that defendants denied public its right of access to public trust lands on the beaches in the municipality and its right to use private property fronting on the ocean incidental to public's right under the public trust doctrine. The court held the public must be given both access to and use of privately owned dry sand areas as reasonably necessary under the public trust doctrine. The court noted that it did not need to rely on legal theories used in other jurisdictions such as prescriptive easements or customary law. Rather it decided to simply modify the public trust doctrine to reflect the reality of the times that people need to use the dry-sand beach to enjoy the area below the high water mark. The court stated that [a] rchaic judicial responses are not an answer to a modern social problem. Rather, we perceive the public trust doctrine not to be fixed or static, but one to be molded and extended to meet changing conditions and needs of the public it was created to benefit. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/5o5m3k Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedri...@... wrote: Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/5o5m3k that's a great story that's been going on for years. I call it one of the great real estate deals with Kssin paying around $800k - plus he fixed what was a falling down beach club. Great place to go crash a party and eat kosher food A couple things that still don't seem clear from this ruling... 1) How does it effect municipal beaches from requiring beach badges within the highwater mark? Am I allowed to walk from a free access point (say from 8th ave) head south and walk to the belmar inlet and sit down along the way WITHOUT having to have a beach badge in OG, Bradley, Avon...? I say yes. 2) How about taking that walk north through long branch - the state park, M. Beach, The private beaches (and stairs over the taxpayer paid seawall) and sit in front of the private beach clubs. Don't forget a similiar case happened in Deal with a father and kid... Wasn't that long ago tht I ripped down snow fences along deal esplande/darlington with no tresspassing signs or were forced by deal police to sit within the street lines as if they extended out to the ocean. A couple calls to the DEP took care of that. HIGH TIDE line - mean high tide is public property. Sit your ass down and relax. When the tide comes in and washes away your house or club, don't come crying to me So TD - how about the mean high tide line, wet sand and taking that free walk along the beach without being harrassed. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
It has always been my understanding that you are free to walk the shore line below the high median water mark and no one can stop you. The trick is to find the free entrance point. Closest was always Deal. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/5o5m3k that's a great story that's been going on for years. I call it one of the great real estate deals with Kssin paying around $800k - plus he fixed what was a falling down beach club. Great place to go crash a party and eat kosher food A couple things that still don't seem clear from this ruling... 1) How does it effect municipal beaches from requiring beach badges within the highwater mark? Am I allowed to walk from a free access point (say from 8th ave) head south and walk to the belmar inlet and sit down along the way WITHOUT having to have a beach badge in OG, Bradley, Avon...? I say yes. 2) How about taking that walk north through long branch - the state park, M. Beach, The private beaches (and stairs over the taxpayer paid seawall) and sit in front of the private beach clubs. Don't forget a similiar case happened in Deal with a father and kid... Wasn't that long ago tht I ripped down snow fences along deal esplande/darlington with no tresspassing signs or were forced by deal police to sit within the street lines as if they extended out to the ocean. A couple calls to the DEP took care of that. HIGH TIDE line - mean high tide is public property. Sit your ass down and relax. When the tide comes in and washes away your house or club, don't come crying to me So TD - how about the mean high tide line, wet sand and taking that free walk along the beach without being harrassed. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedri...@... wrote: It has always been my understanding that you are free to walk the shore line below the high median water mark and no one can stop you. The trick is to find the free entrance point. Closest was always Deal. And there should be no trick. You should be allowed access to walk down to the water line without being directed to a free access point - where there is no parking. On that note, AP is selling their beach badges so you can give them as holiday gifts...they should be selling rolls of quarters or a beach parking card for those pay stations... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote: So TD - how about the mean high tide line, wet sand and taking that free walk along the beach without being harrassed. yes Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Don't Mess With Surfing Sophie (fixed link)
In a message dated 12/12/2008 10:03:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, justifiedri...@yahoo.com writes: It has always been my understanding that you are free to walk the shore line below the high median water mark and no one can stop you. The trick is to find the free entrance point. Closest was always Deal. === I remember the big deal about Deal in the news. Found 11,500 hits here: http://tinyurl.com/674bns In Van Ness v. Borough of Deal, the New Jersey Supreme Court held that a. municipality’s roped-off dry-sand area was subject to the public trust doctrine [1978] **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
