[Assam] Crime against SCs, STs on rise: Govt

[uttam borthakur]

The Constitution of India guarantees autonomy, safeguards by its various 
Articles. But as I had narrated in respect of the Assam Tribal Sangha 
celebrating 15 August as the day of deception where it claimed that the 
Government is flouting the laws in depriving the STs and SCs of such 
safeguards. Now in the following item the Govt is admitting rising violence 
against the SCs and STs. 
This picture has a general implication  in India, where students have to 
agitate to ask the government to expel foreigners from its soil. The Acts are 
there; the Ruling Polity flouts it with impunity and brings down repression if 
someone protests seeking implementation of the laws and govt. policies. 
That is probably the reason of general disaffection leading to various 
fissiparous  tendencies like sovereignty, autonomy, 
district-council-sub-division-street-alley demands.
Now the news: - (BTW: IS Chattisgarh near Madya Pradesh?)

Buzz UpShareTue, Aug 17 10:00 AMNew Delhi, Aug 17 (PTI) Crime against Scheduled 
Castes and Scheduled Tribes communities has seen a surge in the recent years as 
close to 40,000 cases were registered during 2008, about 3,600 more than the 
previous year. According to Ministry of Home Affairs data, a total of 30,031 
cases were registered against different people during 2007 and 33,615 in 2008 
for their alleged involvement in crime against Scheduled Castes.Similarly, the 
number of such cases against Scheduled Tribes rose to 5,608 in 2008 as against 
5,532 in 2007, the data said. As per the information, Uttar Pradesh topped the 
list of States and Union territories by registering a highest of 19,137 cases 
during the period followed by Madhya Pradesh and Bihar with 15,355 and 8,666 
cases respectively.Madhya Pradesh is one of the few states that has shown a 
considerable decrease in crimes against the SCs/STs. The number of cases in the 
state dropped from 5,712 in
 2006 to 4,036 in 2008, a decline of nearly 30 per cent, while all India 
figures have shown increase.A total on 98,702 cases were pending trial in 
various courts across the country at the end of 2008. The data by National 
Crime records Bureau (NCRB), a nodal agency under MHA, said that a total of 
49,810 people were convicted out of 1,90,857 arrested between 2006-08 under 
various Sections of the Act.The Act was put in place with the aim of preventing 
atrocities against the members of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.
Uttam Kumar Borthakur

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Re: [Assam] From The Sentinel - A geographic Discovery

[Jyotirmoy Sharma]

What's more important? The error on the part of the reporter about the
district or the fact that there has been violent activities from our
"friendly" neighbours. From media reports a police outpost was damaged
and even a momen survived being lit alight, besides the damage to Mr
Gogoi's house. Should these incidents not have been reported?
Time and again, our borders and people have been attacked and the Govt
adopts a reactive approach. This time it seems the attack took place
within  a day of the previous indicent where the police outpost was
damaged.
Sometimes a few lives are lost before the Govt wakes up ( eg: Geleki;
the murder of an Assamese youth by snipers from Nagaland some years
back , what happened? Anyone convicted or brought to book. Did
Nagaland Govt pay compensation?  ).  Compare it with the reaction from
Meghalaya when four of their people were unfortunately gunned down by
Assam police at Langpih.
Compared to the incidents at Langpih, in the Assam-Meghalaya border,
Dispur doesn't seem to give much importance to the borders along
Nagaland, Mizoram and Arunachal. Seems it has meekly surrendered the
land and its people to meet it's fate.
Tired of hearing the old "age old relationship" slogan. You can only
be good to people who are good to you.
JS

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[Assam] Guwahatians defy ultra diktats

[Nava Thakuria]

http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/detailsnew.asp?id=aug1710/city05

Guwahatians defy ultra diktats

GUWAHATI, Aug 16 – It seems that the abhorrence of the Guwahatians towards the 
diktats of the militants for boycotting the National Days, like the 
Independence 
Day and the Republic Day, is growing every passing day. This is manifested in 
the growing number of community functions to celebrate these national days and 
also in the growing number of people taking part in such functions.
Guwahatians also took out processions and hoisted the National Tri-colour atop 
their houses. All these exercises were part of a popular campaign to celebrate 
the National Days outside the limits of the official initiatives and thus to 
frustrate the designs of the militants to sabotage the sovereignty of the 
country. 

The campaign started around 13 years back in 1998, with a group of city-based 
journalists coming out in the open resolutely against the militants to 
celebrate 
the Republic Day. Since then, they have been organizing functions to celebrate 
the National Days on the campus of the Guwahati Press Club, taking out 
processions and making appeals to the people to defy the militants’ diktats on 
the issue. A number of leading citizens are also joining them.
Earlier, on August 15, 1997, a procession was taken out in the city at the 
initiative of some veteran journalists defying the ULFA ‘curfew.’ 

It needs mention here that the militants called for a 15-hour general strike 
this time starting from the early hours of August 15 to foil the Independence 
Day celebrations.
The journalists and citizens of the city celebrated the Independence Day at the 
Guwahati Press Club with a solemn function and taking out a procession 
immediately after hoisting the National Tri-colour at the Press Club courtyard. 

Renowned journalist and writer Nirupama Borgohain hoisted the National 
tri-colour at 11 am on the Press Club campus. In her brief speech, Borgohain 
insisted on observing both Independence Day and Republic Day of the country to 
pay tribute to the martyrs of the freedom movement. 

She also condemned in unequivocal terms the militants for their practice of 
issuing diktats to the people to keep off from the initiatives to celebrate the 
National Days. 

Addressing the gathering, eminent journalist DN Chakravorty focused on the 
contributions made by the martyrs to make India free from the clutches of the 
colonialists. Chakravorty, a former editor of the Dainik Asom emphasized on 
developing the country as an example for the rest of the world. He appealed to 
all sections of the society to come forward for making their contributions to 
this end. 

Criticizing the militant groups, which have been continuing with their politics 
of terror through the acts of indiscriminate violence, the veteran journalist 
urged the members of the young generation to work for a new India, where 
governance and justice will be accessible for every common people. He 
outrightly 
rejected the demand for a sovereign Assam and appealed to the militants to come 
forward for resolving the issues through negotiation. 

Later the participants took out a procession in the city streets chanting 
patriotic slogans. Some of the journalists also performed patriotic songs in an 
informal cultural show on the press club campus.
The Bharat Mata Pujan Samiti celebrated the Independence Day at a function held 
on the south bank of Dighalipukhuri. About two thousand people took part in the 
function. Addressing the function, RSS central committee member Indresh Kumar 
called for a massive agitation to drive out the foreign nationals from the 
country. The participants of the function later took out a colourful procession 
waving the National Tri-colour. 

At Kumarpara, the Jatiya Divas Udjapan Mancha–a conglomeration of ten 
organizations, organized a public function. Noted surgeon Dr Jadav Kumar 
hoisted 
the National Flag at the function. Dr Kumar made an appeal to the people to 
make 
the country’s freedom meaningful by playing their assigned roles responsibly. 

A remarkable feature of the function was the participation of the school 
children in great numbers. Children of various schools of Greater Kumarpara 
areas and some reading even in schools located in other parts of the city, took 
part in the function, with some of them running it. They also sang patriotic 
songs and performed dances matching the occasion. The women of the Greater 
Kumarpara areas also took part in the celebration in great numbers. They also 
sang patriotic songs. 

Former Additional Superintendent of Police Tilak Hazarika hoisted the National 
Flag on the Panjabari Jironichora campus in presence of around 300 people. 

Reports of celebrating the Independence Day through community functions have 
also been received from various parts of the city like Chunchali, Ulubari, 
Paltanbazar, Panjabari Jironichora, Khanapara Shantigram Housing Comlex etc. 

The Sports Authority of

Re: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem

[Ram Sarangapani]

Hehehe!

Argumentum ad hominem? Some examples might be nice.

 I don't think I ever come across that disease around Texas. Have you KJD?

Perhaps, it is raging in other parts (not to be named :-)). I think, it is
time for the good Daktor Haatimuria to descent from his perch in the Ozarks
(I think), and find a cure all for the incorrigible kharkhowas.

I have heard that is is closely related to the FIM disease (Foot-in-mouth) &
the other famous one 'argumentum ad infinitum' disease, which seems to
affect a number of us - I think have a rare case of that affliction :-) :-)

--Ram



On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Chan Mahanta  wrote:

>
> Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of " Argumentum ad
> hominem"  in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one has
> to conclude  that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their
> knowledge of things, perhaps have nort come across this particular
> phenomenon. So I thought it is as good a time as any, to bt ring it to their
> attention:
>
>
> Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a
> speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the
> argument.
>
>
> cm
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>
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Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Chan Mahanta]

So, if we return to, the case of Vedanta Mines , the people who lost their land 
and livelihoods should have taken it in their stride, emulating your example, 
of not purchasing a gun even after being robbed in Paris, never mind that at 
last , THIS robbery was held to be illegal, primarily because of ARMED REVOLT 
by Naxals, right? What was so hard about following your example here, is that 
the morale of the story?






On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:

> THERE IS NO NEED OF VIOLENCE TO RESOLVE PROBLEMS, WHETHER IT IS PERSONAL OR 
> BROADER IN NATURE.
> VIOLENCE ONLY ESCALATES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Chan Mahanta 
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
> 
> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:27:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
> panel
> 
>> I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.
> 
> *** That must be because you are a special person, one that others should 
> emulate.  You have upheld  the highest of human values.
> 
> Not to devalue your highly evolved status, but it does not quite compare 
> with, 
> say the people who did not receive compensation for property stolen from them 
> by 
> corporate interests, sanctioned and approved by desi-demokrasy, to come to 
> light 
> for 23 years, much less YET compensated. Or the news I posted minutes 
> earlier. 
> Or Assam's existence being noticed.
> 
> I know, everyone ought to emulate your aversion to violence. But somehow, 
> somehow, the examples don't seem equivalent. What do you think? Is it just MY 
> 
> propensity for violence  that I am making up these unbecoming arguments, or 
> could there just might be a lesson to learn, a reality to acknowledge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:
> 
>> More intelligent question would be why do civilians need guns even  in a 
>> democracy like USA to do the same? I am all in favor of banning guns for 
>> civilians  in USA.
>> Are you an NRA member?
>> I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Chan Mahanta 
>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
>> 
>> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:59:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: 
>> Green 
>> panel
>> 
>> 
>> Depends on how badly one is affected, robbed ? 
>> 
>> But the intelligent question should have been: WHY do Indians , in their 
>> DEMOCRATIC country, have to take to guns, before their grievances see the 
>> light 
>> 
>> of day, much less a fair and timely resolution? 
>> 
>> 
>> Or is that too complicated?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:
>> 
>>> Guns make a difference anywhere in the world. Doe it mean every civilian 
>>> must 
> 
>>> have a gun to make a point?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Chan Mahanta 
>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:50:19 PM
>>> Subject: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
>> panel
>>> 
>>> So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to 
>>> defend 
>> 
>> 
>>> your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent 
>>> to 
>>> guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
>>> notice, 
>>> 
>>> don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  fathom 
>>> it. I 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the difference 
>>> for 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> the people after all. 
>>> 
>>> cm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel
>>> 
>>> Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
>>> Business - Business - The Times of India 
>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX
>>> X
>>> X
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> NEW DELHI: 
>>> Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining 
>>> at 
>>> Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis 
>>> of 
>>> false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
>>> Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
>>> colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
>>> findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday 
>>> recommended 
>> 
>> 
>>> that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of 
>>> the 
>> 
>> 
>>> Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
>>> indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project 
>>> brings 
>>> out 
>>> 
>>> the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
>>> protection. It

Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Dilip Deka]

THERE IS NO NEED OF VIOLENCE TO RESOLVE PROBLEMS, WHETHER IT IS PERSONAL OR 
BROADER IN NATURE.
VIOLENCE ONLY ESCALATES.





From: Chan Mahanta 
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 

Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:27:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
panel

>I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.

*** That must be because you are a special person, one that others should 
emulate.  You have upheld  the highest of human values.

Not to devalue your highly evolved status, but it does not quite compare with, 
say the people who did not receive compensation for property stolen from them 
by 
corporate interests, sanctioned and approved by desi-demokrasy, to come to 
light 
for 23 years, much less YET compensated. Or the news I posted minutes earlier. 
Or Assam's existence being noticed.

I know, everyone ought to emulate your aversion to violence. But somehow, 
somehow, the examples don't seem equivalent. What do you think? Is it just MY 

propensity for violence  that I am making up these unbecoming arguments, or 
could there just might be a lesson to learn, a reality to acknowledge?




On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:

> More intelligent question would be why do civilians need guns even  in a 
> democracy like USA to do the same? I am all in favor of banning guns for 
> civilians  in USA.
> Are you an NRA member?
> I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Chan Mahanta 
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
> 
> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:59:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
> panel
> 
> 
> Depends on how badly one is affected, robbed ? 
> 
> But the intelligent question should have been: WHY do Indians , in their 
> DEMOCRATIC country, have to take to guns, before their grievances see the 
> light 
>
> of day, much less a fair and timely resolution? 
> 
> 
> Or is that too complicated?
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:
> 
>> Guns make a difference anywhere in the world. Doe it mean every civilian 
>> must 

>> have a gun to make a point?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Chan Mahanta 
>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
>> 
>> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:50:19 PM
>> Subject: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
> panel
>> 
>> So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to 
>> defend 
>
> 
>> your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent to 
>> guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
>> notice, 
>> 
>> don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  fathom 
>> it. I 
>>
>> 
>> wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the difference 
>> for 
>>
>> 
>> the people after all. 
>> 
>> cm
>> 
>> 
>> Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel
>> 
>> Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
>> Business - Business - The Times of India 
>>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX
>>X
>> X
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> NEW DELHI: 
>> Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining at 
>> Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis of 
>> false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
>> Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
>> colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
>> findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday 
>> recommended 
>
> 
>> that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of 
>> the 
>
> 
>> Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
>> indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project brings 
>> out 
>> 
>> the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
>> protection. It is significant also because it underlines the changed 
>> sensibilities of the government towards the issues against the backdrop of 
>> Left-wing extremism and why Naxalites are finding it easy to influence 
>> alienated 
>> 
>> tribal belts. , The stern report of the environment and forests ministry 
>> panel 
>
> 
>> signalled that tribal rights and environmental isssues have finally muscled 
>> their way onto the governance agenda,  forcing the authorities to take 
>> action 

>> against corporates who may have shown disregard for rules. The Saxena 
>> committee 
>>
>> 
>> report,  which could lead to shutting down of the Vedanta smelters in 
>> Orissa,  
>
> 
>> comes after the 

Re: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem

[Chan Mahanta]

But how does that relate to argumentum ad hominem? Any examples to help out?




On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:

> If one spits into the sky, the spit is likely to fall on his face.
> An intelligent spitter spits into a spitoon. I guess spitoons have gone out 
> of 
> style.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Chan Mahanta 
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
> 
> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:18:03 PM
> Subject: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem
> 
> 
> Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of " Argumentum ad 
> hominem"  
> in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one has to conclude  
> that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their knowledge of things, 
> perhaps have nort come across this particular phenomenon. So I thought it is 
> as 
> good a time as any, to bt ring it to their attention:
> 
> 
> Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a 
> speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the 
> argument.
> 
> 
> cm
> ___
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> assam@assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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> assam@assamnet.org
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Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Chan Mahanta]

>I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.

*** That must be because you are a special person, one that others should 
emulate.  You have upheld  the highest of human values.

Not to devalue your highly evolved status, but it does not quite compare with, 
say the people who did not receive compensation for property stolen from them 
by corporate interests, sanctioned and approved by desi-demokrasy, to come to 
light for 23 years, much less YET compensated. Or the news I posted minutes 
earlier. Or Assam's existence being noticed.

I know, everyone ought to emulate your aversion to violence. But somehow, 
somehow, the examples don't seem equivalent. What do you think? Is it just MY 
propensity for violence  that I am making up these unbecoming arguments, or 
could there just might be a lesson to learn, a reality to acknowledge?




On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:

> More intelligent question would be why do civilians need guns even  in a 
> democracy like USA to do the same? I am all in favor of banning guns for 
> civilians  in USA.
> Are you an NRA member?
> I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Chan Mahanta 
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
> 
> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:59:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
> panel
> 
> 
> Depends on how badly one is affected, robbed ? 
> 
> But the intelligent question should have been: WHY do Indians , in their 
> DEMOCRATIC country, have to take to guns, before their grievances see the 
> light 
> of day, much less a fair and timely resolution? 
> 
> 
> Or is that too complicated?
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:
> 
>> Guns make a difference anywhere in the world. Doe it mean every civilian 
>> must 
>> have a gun to make a point?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Chan Mahanta 
>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
>> 
>> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:50:19 PM
>> Subject: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
> panel
>> 
>> So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to 
>> defend 
> 
>> your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent to 
>> guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
>> notice, 
>> 
>> don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  fathom 
>> it. I 
>> 
>> wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the difference 
>> for 
>> 
>> the people after all. 
>> 
>> cm
>> 
>> 
>> Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel
>> 
>> Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
>> Business - Business - The Times of India 
>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX
>> X
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> NEW DELHI: 
>> Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining at 
>> Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis of 
>> false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
>> Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
>> colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
>> findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday 
>> recommended 
> 
>> that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of 
>> the 
> 
>> Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
>> indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project brings 
>> out 
>> 
>> the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
>> protection. It is significant also because it underlines the changed 
>> sensibilities of the government towards the issues against the backdrop of 
>> Left-wing extremism and why Naxalites are finding it easy to influence 
>> alienated 
>> 
>> tribal belts. , The stern report of the environment and forests ministry 
>> panel 
> 
>> signalled that tribal rights and environmental isssues have finally muscled 
>> their way onto the governance agenda,  forcing the authorities to take 
>> action 
>> against corporates who may have shown disregard for rules. The Saxena 
>> committee 
>> 
>> report,  which could lead to shutting down of the Vedanta smelters in 
>> Orissa,  
> 
>> comes after the MoEF moved to stop or stall several high-profile,  
>> heavy-investment projects,  including the Posco Integrated Steel project in 
>> Orissa,  which,  at Rs 56, 000 crore is the single-largest foreign direct 
>> investment in India,  the Jindal thermal power plant in Chhattisgarh (Rs 
>> 10,000 
>> 
>> crore),  hydroelectric projects on Bhagirathi in Uttarakhand and the Navi 
>> Mumbai 
>> 
>> airport 

Re: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem

[Dilip Deka]

If one spits into the sky, the spit is likely to fall on his face.
An intelligent spitter spits into a spitoon. I guess spitoons have gone out of 
style.





From: Chan Mahanta 
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 

Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:18:03 PM
Subject: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem


Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of " Argumentum ad 
hominem"  
in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one has to conclude  
that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their knowledge of things, 
perhaps have nort come across this particular phenomenon. So I thought it is as 
good a time as any, to bt ring it to their attention:


Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a 
speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument.


cm
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[Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem

[Chan Mahanta]

Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of " Argumentum ad hominem" 
 in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one has to conclude  
that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their knowledge of things, 
perhaps have nort come across this particular phenomenon. So I thought it is as 
good a time as any, to bt ring it to their attention:


Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a 
speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument.


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Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Dilip Deka]

More intelligent question would be why do civilians need guns even  in a 
democracy like USA to do the same? I am all in favor of banning guns for 
civilians  in USA.
Are you an NRA member?
I was robbed in Paris but still haven't bought a gun.





From: Chan Mahanta 
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 

Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:59:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
panel


Depends on how badly one is affected, robbed ? 

But the intelligent question should have been: WHY do Indians , in their 
DEMOCRATIC country, have to take to guns, before their grievances see the light 
of day, much less a fair and timely resolution? 


Or is that too complicated?



On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:

> Guns make a difference anywhere in the world. Doe it mean every civilian must 
> have a gun to make a point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Chan Mahanta 
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
> 
> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:50:19 PM
> Subject: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
panel
> 
> So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to 
> defend 

> your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent to 
> guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
>notice, 
>
> don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  fathom it. 
> I 
>
> wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the difference 
> for 
>
> the people after all. 
> 
> cm
> 
> 
> Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel
> 
> Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
> Business - Business - The Times of India 
>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX
>X
> 
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: 
> Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining at 
> Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis of 
> false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
> Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
> colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
> findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday 
> recommended 

> that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of 
> the 

> Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
> indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project brings 
>out 
>
> the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
> protection. It is significant also because it underlines the changed 
> sensibilities of the government towards the issues against the backdrop of 
> Left-wing extremism and why Naxalites are finding it easy to influence 
>alienated 
>
> tribal belts. , The stern report of the environment and forests ministry 
> panel 

> signalled that tribal rights and environmental isssues have finally muscled 
> their way onto the governance agenda,  forcing the authorities to take action 
> against corporates who may have shown disregard for rules. The Saxena 
> committee 
>
> report,  which could lead to shutting down of the Vedanta smelters in 
> Orissa,  

> comes after the MoEF moved to stop or stall several high-profile,  
> heavy-investment projects,  including the Posco Integrated Steel project in 
> Orissa,  which,  at Rs 56, 000 crore is the single-largest foreign direct 
> investment in India,  the Jindal thermal power plant in Chhattisgarh (Rs 
> 10,000 
>
> crore),  hydroelectric projects on Bhagirathi in Uttarakhand and the Navi 
>Mumbai 
>
> airport in Maharashtra (Rs 7,972 crore). , The panel was set up by the 
> ministry 
>
> of environment and forests to investigate if the state government and the 
> aluminium giant had complied with the Forest Rights Act and Forest 
> Conservation 
>
> Act while mining for bauxite. , The report reveals exhaustive evidence to 
> nail 

> the complicity of the state government in permitting Vedanta to flagrantly 
> violate the laws. , But the committee,  even as it recommended that the 
> mining 

> project be disallowed,  stopped short of asking for prosecution of the 
>officials 
>
> involved in what seems to be a blatant fraud that went unchecked for years. , 
> "The question of whom to prosecute is secondary. First, we have to consider 
> the 
>
> clearance," said Union minister for enviroment and forests Jairam Ramesh. 
> Asked 
>
> if the violations could be set right now,  the minister said,  "Without 
> prejudice to the existing case, it would be a tragedy that one violates laws 
>and 
>
> still has a window of opportunity to just pay a penalty and get away with it 

Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Chan Mahanta]

Depends on how badly one is affected, robbed ? 

But the intelligent question should have been: WHY do Indians , in their 
DEMOCRATIC country, have to take to guns, before their grievances see the light 
of day, much less a fair and timely resolution? 

Or is that too complicated?



On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:

> Guns make a difference anywhere in the world. Doe it mean every civilian must 
> have a gun to make a point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Chan Mahanta 
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 
> 
> Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:50:19 PM
> Subject: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green 
> panel
> 
> So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to 
> defend 
> your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent to 
> guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
> notice, 
> don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  fathom it. 
> I 
> wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the difference 
> for 
> the people after all. 
> 
> cm
> 
> 
> Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel
> 
> Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
> Business - Business - The Times of India 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX
> 
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: 
> Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining at 
> Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis of 
> false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
> Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
> colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
> findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday 
> recommended 
> that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of 
> the 
> Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
> indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project brings 
> out 
> the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
> protection. It is significant also because it underlines the changed 
> sensibilities of the government towards the issues against the backdrop of 
> Left-wing extremism and why Naxalites are finding it easy to influence 
> alienated 
> tribal belts. , The stern report of the environment and forests ministry 
> panel 
> signalled that tribal rights and environmental isssues have finally muscled 
> their way onto the governance agenda,  forcing the authorities to take action 
> against corporates who may have shown disregard for rules. The Saxena 
> committee 
> report,  which could lead to shutting down of the Vedanta smelters in Orissa, 
>  
> comes after the MoEF moved to stop or stall several high-profile,  
> heavy-investment projects,  including the Posco Integrated Steel project in 
> Orissa,  which,  at Rs 56, 000 crore is the single-largest foreign direct 
> investment in India,  the Jindal thermal power plant in Chhattisgarh (Rs 
> 10,000 
> crore),  hydroelectric projects on Bhagirathi in Uttarakhand and the Navi 
> Mumbai 
> airport in Maharashtra (Rs 7,972 crore). , The panel was set up by the 
> ministry 
> of environment and forests to investigate if the state government and the 
> aluminium giant had complied with the Forest Rights Act and Forest 
> Conservation 
> Act while mining for bauxite. , The report reveals exhaustive evidence to 
> nail 
> the complicity of the state government in permitting Vedanta to flagrantly 
> violate the laws. , But the committee,  even as it recommended that the 
> mining 
> project be disallowed,  stopped short of asking for prosecution of the 
> officials 
> involved in what seems to be a blatant fraud that went unchecked for years. , 
> "The question of whom to prosecute is secondary. First, we have to consider 
> the 
> clearance," said Union minister for enviroment and forests Jairam Ramesh. 
> Asked 
> if the violations could be set right now,  the minister said,  "Without 
> prejudice to the existing case, it would be a tragedy that one violates laws 
> and 
> still has a window of opportunity to just pay a penalty and get away with it 
> later." , The report will now be reviewed by the statutory Forest Advisory 
> Committee,  which will then give its recommendations to the ministry to take 
> a 
> final call on the forest clearance. , The report says,  "This committee is of 
> the firm view that allowing mining in the proposed mining lease area by 
> depriving two primitive tribal groups of their rights over the proposed 
> mining 
> area in order to benefit a private company would shake the faith of tribal 
> people in the laws of the land which may have

Re: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Dilip Deka]

Guns make a difference anywhere in the world. Doe it mean every civilian must 
have a gun to make a point?





From: Chan Mahanta 
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 

Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:50:19 PM
Subject: [Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to defend 
your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent to 
guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
notice, 
don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  fathom it. I 
wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the difference for 
the people after all. 

cm


Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
Business - Business - The Times of India 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX



NEW DELHI: 
Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining at 
Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis of 
false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday recommended 
that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of the 
Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project brings 
out 
the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
protection. It is significant also because it underlines the changed 
sensibilities of the government towards the issues against the backdrop of 
Left-wing extremism and why Naxalites are finding it easy to influence 
alienated 
tribal belts. , The stern report of the environment and forests ministry panel 
signalled that tribal rights and environmental isssues have finally muscled 
their way onto the governance agenda,  forcing the authorities to take action 
against corporates who may have shown disregard for rules. The Saxena committee 
report,  which could lead to shutting down of the Vedanta smelters in Orissa,  
comes after the MoEF moved to stop or stall several high-profile,  
heavy-investment projects,  including the Posco Integrated Steel project in 
Orissa,  which,  at Rs 56, 000 crore is the single-largest foreign direct 
investment in India,  the Jindal thermal power plant in Chhattisgarh (Rs 10,000 
crore),  hydroelectric projects on Bhagirathi in Uttarakhand and the Navi 
Mumbai 
airport in Maharashtra (Rs 7,972 crore). , The panel was set up by the ministry 
of environment and forests to investigate if the state government and the 
aluminium giant had complied with the Forest Rights Act and Forest Conservation 
Act while mining for bauxite. , The report reveals exhaustive evidence to nail 
the complicity of the state government in permitting Vedanta to flagrantly 
violate the laws. , But the committee,  even as it recommended that the mining 
project be disallowed,  stopped short of asking for prosecution of the 
officials 
involved in what seems to be a blatant fraud that went unchecked for years. , 
"The question of whom to prosecute is secondary. First, we have to consider the 
clearance," said Union minister for enviroment and forests Jairam Ramesh. Asked 
if the violations could be set right now,  the minister said,  "Without 
prejudice to the existing case, it would be a tragedy that one violates laws 
and 
still has a window of opportunity to just pay a penalty and get away with it 
later." , The report will now be reviewed by the statutory Forest Advisory 
Committee,  which will then give its recommendations to the ministry to take a 
final call on the forest clearance. , The report says,  "This committee is of 
the firm view that allowing mining in the proposed mining lease area by 
depriving two primitive tribal groups of their rights over the proposed mining 
area in order to benefit a private company would shake the faith of tribal 
people in the laws of the land which may have serious consequences for the 
security and well-being of the entire country." , The report records how the 
state government falsified documents and concealed information from the central 
government to facilitate the aluminium refinery in mining bauxite while the 
company encroached upon government and tribal lands with impunity. , The 
aluminium czar Anil Aggarwal's company has illegally -- despite legal notices 
from the Orissa State Pollution Control Board -- begun building a refinery to 
produce 6 million tonnes of aluminium per annum ins

[Assam] From The Sentinel - A geographic Discovery

[Chan Mahanta]

NSCN-K sets afire tea growers’ house
 
GUWAHATI, Aug 16: Suspected NSCN(K) militants today set ablaze a house of small 
tea grower, Tarun Gogoi,  in the Bimalpur area of Sivasagar district bordering 
Arunachal Pradesh, police sources said.
Senior police and civil officials have rushed to the Bimalapur area to assess 
the situation, sources added. PT

>in the Bimalpur area of Sivasagar district bordering Arunachal Pradesh,

 Does anyone know how "Sivasagar district' borders Arunachal?  
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[Assam] From ToI/Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

[Chan Mahanta]

So it proves one thing LOUD and CLEAR:  That unless you take up arms to defend 
your rights in India, nothing happens. Desi demokrasy is all but impotent to 
guarantee  the rights of people. But when they take up arms,  Dilli does 
notice, don't they? Except that some of our kharkhowa ex-pats still can't  
fathom it. I wonder WHY these were NOT illegal so far? Naxalism does make the 
difference for the people after all. 
cm


Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel

Read more: Vedanta mines illegal, must be shut down: Green panel - India 
Business - Business - The Times of India 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Vedanta-mines-illegal-must-be-shut-down-Green-panel/articleshow/6321872.cms#ixzz0wpMAIbWX


NEW DELHI: 
Mining giant Vedanta consistently violated several laws in bauxite mining at 
Niyamgiri,  encroached upon government land,  got clearances on the basis of 
false information and illegally built its aluminium refinery at Lanjigarh,  
Orissa. As the company engaged in these violations,  the Orissa government 
colluded with it and the Centre turned a blind eye. , These are some of the 
findings of the four-member N C Saxena committee,  which on Monday recommended 
that the company not be allowed to mine in the hills that are the abode of the 
Dongaria Kondh and Kutia Kondh tribes in Orissa. , The no-holds-barred 
indictment of the state and private sector in the $1.7billion project brings 
out the short shrift given to concerns about tribal rights and environmental 
protection. It is significant also because it underlines the changed 
sensibilities of the government towards the issues against the backdrop of 
Left-wing extremism and why Naxalites are finding it easy to influence 
alienated tribal belts. , The stern report of the environment and forests 
ministry panel signalled that tribal rights and environmental isssues have 
finally muscled their way onto the governance agenda,  forcing the authorities 
to take action against corporates who may have shown disregard for rules. The 
Saxena committee report,  which could lead to shutting down of the Vedanta 
smelters in Orissa,  comes after the MoEF moved to stop or stall several 
high-profile,  heavy-investment projects,  including the Posco Integrated Steel 
project in Orissa,  which,  at Rs 56, 000 crore is the single-largest foreign 
direct investment in India,  the Jindal thermal power plant in Chhattisgarh (Rs 
10,000 crore),  hydroelectric projects on Bhagirathi in Uttarakhand and the 
Navi Mumbai airport in Maharashtra (Rs 7,972 crore). , The panel was set up by 
the ministry of environment and forests to investigate if the state government 
and the aluminium giant had complied with the Forest Rights Act and Forest 
Conservation Act while mining for bauxite. , The report reveals exhaustive 
evidence to nail the complicity of the state government in permitting Vedanta 
to flagrantly violate the laws. , But the committee,  even as it recommended 
that the mining project be disallowed,  stopped short of asking for prosecution 
of the officials involved in what seems to be a blatant fraud that went 
unchecked for years. , "The question of whom to prosecute is secondary. First, 
we have to consider the clearance," said Union minister for enviroment and 
forests Jairam Ramesh. Asked if the violations could be set right now,  the 
minister said,  "Without prejudice to the existing case, it would be a tragedy 
that one violates laws and still has a window of opportunity to just pay a 
penalty and get away with it later." , The report will now be reviewed by the 
statutory Forest Advisory Committee,  which will then give its recommendations 
to the ministry to take a final call on the forest clearance. , The report 
says,  "This committee is of the firm view that allowing mining in the proposed 
mining lease area by depriving two primitive tribal groups of their rights over 
the proposed mining area in order to benefit a private company would shake the 
faith of tribal people in the laws of the land which may have serious 
consequences for the security and well-being of the entire country." , The 
report records how the state government falsified documents and concealed 
information from the central government to facilitate the aluminium refinery in 
mining bauxite while the company encroached upon government and tribal lands 
with impunity. , The aluminium czar Anil Aggarwal's company has illegally -- 
despite legal notices from the Orissa State Pollution Control Board -- begun 
building a refinery to produce 6 million tonnes of aluminium per annum instead 
of the 1 million tonnes per annum plant that it had got the green clearance 
for. , The committee -- that included S Parasuraman,  director of Tata 
Institute of Social Sciences; Promode Kant,  retired forest official; and Amita 
Baviskar,  professor at the Institute of Economic Growth -- pointed out how 
right from the beginning,  the firm had furnished fa

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Dilip Deka]

Also add to it - how many Indians migrate to Pakistan? If someone has the 
number, it will be interesting t talk about.





From: Ram Sarangapani 
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world 

Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 4:59:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

>If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same
in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.

I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they have
been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very self-introspective,
finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.

The reverse is not necessarily true.  For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
numbers, and illegally.

Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other terror
groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed snation
that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.



On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same
> in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
>
> > From: cmaha...@gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> >
> > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> then
> > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> >
> >  Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major 'democratic'
> country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> > people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >
> > > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems
> to be
> > > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > >
> > > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not
> stop
> > > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper
> into
> > > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond
> Kashmir, and
> > > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those
> encroached
> > > areas.
> > >
> > > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever
> encroaching
> > > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without
> firing a
> > > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing
> world
> > > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is
> occupying
> > > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world
> does
> > > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> > >
> > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> then
> > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> > >
> > > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown
> terror
> > > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize
> the
> > > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
> > > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> > >
> > > --Ram
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> > > Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> > > POLGREEN<
>http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/lydia_polgreen/index.html?inline=nyt-per
>r
> >
> > >
> > > SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life support
> with a
> > > bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was
> > > unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> > >
> > > Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of rage.
> He
> > > had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a
> protest
> > > against India<
>http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/india/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
>o
> >’s
> > > military presence in this disputed province.
> > >
> > > For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces
> in
> > > Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> > > Pakistan<
>http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/pakistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
>o
> >,
> > > which claims thi

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

KJD,

I agree. Our kharwhowa terrorists are really not made of the same stuff as
those Pakistani Mumbai attackers.

Those guys (may have been high on something) were willing to give up their
lives - for a cause, however rotten it was.
The motto on this side seems to be, run, run as fast as your feet will carry
you, so that you can live and kill again another time.

I am just too damn tired of some people trying to pass out known terrorists
as revolutionaries, and all unrest as revolutions.

And then all of a sudden, we are expected to redefine terms known for
centuries.

So, KJD, tell, me how do you classify gangs who murder innocent children at
Dhemaji - are they terrorists or the everyday, pie-in-sky revolutionaries?

One can call them anything, in my book, they are just plain 'ol murderers,
who think they know the answers to all of Assam's problems.

--Ram





On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 7:15 PM, kamal deka  wrote:

> >>>Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume,<<<
> RS,
> I don't know the difference either.However,I know how an Islamic
> terrorist differs from kharkhowa one.An army officer told me this
> story way back in 2002.
> An Islamic terrorist is gutsy and hard nut to crack, whereas a
> kharkhowa terrorist is faint-hearted or chiken-hearted.Just a mild
> scold make him do two things--FIRST HE WETS HIS PANTS BY EASING
> HIMSELF,OF COURSE OUT OF FEAR,AND THEN DIVULGE EVERYTHING
> INSTANTLY.And these are the namby-pamby specimens of kharkhowa
> so-called " revolutionaries".
>
> LET ME ASSURE YOU ONE MORE THING.I HAVE NEVER SEEN A KHARKHOWA
> SAMPLE,WHO CHASTISED ANOTHER KHARKHOWA FOR NOT VIEWING THINGS FROM
> PAKISTANI OR BANGLADESHI PERSPECTIVE.
>
> IF THE LAND OF ASSAM IS FILLED WITH SUCH SPECIES,IN WHICH DIRECTION DO
> I THINK OUR DEAR STATE WILL BE RACING BUT DOWN.
> THICK-HEADED YES--BLIND TOO.
> IS THERE A POINT IN CONTINUING CONVERSATION WITH SUCH SPECIMENS? FOR
> MY MONEY--CERTAINLY NO.
>
> KJD
>
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani 
> wrote:
> >>** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?
> >
> > What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9?
> Whats
> > the difference?
> >
> > I don't know who Gupta is?
> >
> >>I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> >
> > Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!
> >
> >>*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> >
> > This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
> > illegally."
> >
> > If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like
> the
> > ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.
> >
> >>*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing
> everywhere.
> > You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir.
> I
> > hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> >
> > True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like
> Pakistan
> > export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.
> >
> > Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
> > us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in
> my
> > thinking?
> >
> > __
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time,
> they
> >> have
> >> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> >> self-introspective,
> >> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate
> the
> >> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
> >> simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal
> Bangladeshis
> >> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> >> > numbers, and illegally.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> >> terror
> >> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> >> snation
> >> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing
> everywhere.
> >> You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir.
> I
> >> hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> >> > From: assa...@gmail.com
> >> > To: assam@assamnet.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
> NYT
> >> >
> >> > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then
> the
> >> same
> >> > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> >> >
> >> > I am sure the Pak

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[kamal deka]

>>>Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume,<<<
RS,
I don't know the difference either.However,I know how an Islamic
terrorist differs from kharkhowa one.An army officer told me this
story way back in 2002.
An Islamic terrorist is gutsy and hard nut to crack, whereas a
kharkhowa terrorist is faint-hearted or chiken-hearted.Just a mild
scold make him do two things--FIRST HE WETS HIS PANTS BY EASING
HIMSELF,OF COURSE OUT OF FEAR,AND THEN DIVULGE EVERYTHING
INSTANTLY.And these are the namby-pamby specimens of kharkhowa
so-called " revolutionaries".

LET ME ASSURE YOU ONE MORE THING.I HAVE NEVER SEEN A KHARKHOWA
SAMPLE,WHO CHASTISED ANOTHER KHARKHOWA FOR NOT VIEWING THINGS FROM
PAKISTANI OR BANGLADESHI PERSPECTIVE.

IF THE LAND OF ASSAM IS FILLED WITH SUCH SPECIES,IN WHICH DIRECTION DO
I THINK OUR DEAR STATE WILL BE RACING BUT DOWN.
THICK-HEADED YES--BLIND TOO.
IS THERE A POINT IN CONTINUING CONVERSATION WITH SUCH SPECIMENS? FOR
MY MONEY--CERTAINLY NO.

KJD

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani  wrote:
>>** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?
>
> What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9? Whats
> the difference?
>
> I don't know who Gupta is?
>
>>I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
>
> Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!
>
>>*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
>
> This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
> illegally."
>
> If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like the
> ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.
>
>>*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
> You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir. I
> hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
>
> True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like Pakistan
> export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.
>
> Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
> us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in my
> thinking?
>
> __
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
>> have
>> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
>> self-introspective,
>> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
>> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
>>
>>
>>
>> *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
>> simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
>> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
>> > numbers, and illegally.
>>
>>
>>
>> *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
>> terror
>> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
>> snation
>> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
>>
>>
>>
>> *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
>> You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir. I
>> hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
>>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
>> > From: assa...@gmail.com
>> > To: assam@assamnet.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
>> >
>> > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
>> same
>> > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
>> >
>> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
>> have
>> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
>> self-introspective,
>> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
>> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
>> >
>> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
>> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
>> > numbers, and illegally.
>> >
>> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
>> terror
>> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
>> snation
>> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
>> > dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
>> same
>> > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
>> > >
>> > > > From: cmaha...@gmail.com
>> > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
>> > > > To: assam@assamnet.org
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
>> NYT
>> 

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

>Wat kind of allowance u gave to BD based(yet) ULFA fellows? Sure it is not
about financial allowance. Did u gave them visa and passport? :)

Is that what you read? Is that what you understood? I tell ya, in C'da's
words - its the damn English language!

>Sorry sir, i am not eligible to educate u about terrorism and revolution,
till u sit abroad. Come to our villages. I will show u, no need to teach.

If you can't tell us the difference, having lived in Asom's villages, going
through all the hardships, who can? Just tell us a few things, we will try
to understand. Or do you think I'll have to go to Bebejia, Pokua, or Nalbari
or Namti to understand the full flavor of it all?

Oh well!








On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Madhuri Gupta. U must be joking.
>
> R u serious with your tell about Yasin Malik? 15 yrs before he was
> terrorist with his JKLF, to GOI. But not now, as he left weapons and came to
> democratic movement. Is he terrorist or what?
>
> Sorry sir, i am not eligible to educate u about terrorism and revolution,
> till u sit abroad. Come to our villages. I will show u, no need to teach.
>
> Wat kind of allowance u gave to BD based(yet) ULFA fellows? Sure it is not
> about financial allowance. Did u gave them visa and passport? :)
>
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:06:17 -0500
> > From: assa...@gmail.com
> > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> >
> > >** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?
> >
> > What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9?
> Whats
> > the difference?
> >
> > I don't know who Gupta is?
> >
> > >I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> >
> > Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!
> >
> > >*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> >
> > This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
> > illegally."
> >
> > If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like
> the
> > ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.
> >
> > >*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing
> everywhere.
> > You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir.
> I
> > hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> >
> > True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like
> Pakistan
> > export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.
> >
> > Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
> > us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in
> my
> > thinking?
> >
> > __
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time,
> they
> > > have
> > > > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> > > self-introspective,
> > > > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate
> the
> > > > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
> > > simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal
> Bangladeshis
> > > > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > > > numbers, and illegally.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> > > terror
> > > > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> > > snation
> > > > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing
> everywhere.
> > > You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir.
> I
> > > hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> > > > From: assa...@gmail.com
> > > > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
> NYT
> > > >
> > > > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then
> the
> > > same
> > > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time,
> they
> > > have
> > > > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> > > self-introspective,
> > > > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate
> the
> > > > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> > > >
> > > > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal
> Bangladeshis
> > > > come into Assam by the millions. As

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Dhruba Jyoti Deka]

Madhuri Gupta. U must be joking.

R u serious with your tell about Yasin Malik? 15 yrs before he was terrorist 
with his JKLF, to GOI. But not now, as he left weapons and came to democratic 
movement. Is he terrorist or what?

Sorry sir, i am not eligible to educate u about terrorism and revolution, till 
u sit abroad. Come to our villages. I will show u, no need to teach.

Wat kind of allowance u gave to BD based(yet) ULFA fellows? Sure it is not 
about financial allowance. Did u gave them visa and passport? :)

> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:06:17 -0500
> From: assa...@gmail.com
> To: assam@assamnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> 
> >** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?
> 
> What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9? Whats
> the difference?
> 
> I don't know who Gupta is?
> 
> >I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> 
> Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!
> 
> >*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> 
> This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
> illegally."
> 
> If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like the
> ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.
> 
> >*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
> You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir. I
> hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> 
> True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like Pakistan
> export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.
> 
> Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
> us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in my
> thinking?
> 
> __
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
> > have
> > > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> > self-introspective,
> > > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> > > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> >
> >
> >
> > *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
> > simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> > > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > > numbers, and illegally.
> >
> >
> >
> > *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> > terror
> > > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> > snation
> > > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> >
> >
> >
> > *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
> > You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir. I
> > hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> > > From: assa...@gmail.com
> > > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> > >
> > > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
> > same
> > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > >
> > > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
> > have
> > > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> > self-introspective,
> > > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> > > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> > >
> > > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> > > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > > numbers, and illegally.
> > >
> > > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> > terror
> > > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> > snation
> > > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > > dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
> > same
> > > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > > >
> > > > > From: cmaha...@gmail.com
> > > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > > > > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
> > NYT
> > > > >
> > > > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy
> > from
> > > > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and othe

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

>** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta?

What about RAW? Is it like the CIA, ISI, Bangladesh Intel, KGB, MI 9? Whats
the difference?

I don't know who Gupta is?

>I am just an simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?

Me too. I am also just a simple fellow, with no standing!

>*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?

This is what I wrote: "Assamese do not go to B'desh in such  numbers, and
illegally."

If you read it carefully, I did make allowances for some Assamese like the
ulfa who are holed up in B'desh.

>*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in >Kashmir. I
hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.

True, terrorism does spread to other countries. But countries like Pakistan
export them - to India, to Afganistan and other places.

Terrorism & Revolution, difference: Assume, I don't know, please educate
us.  I don't know Yasin Malik? Will knowing him/her make a difference in my
thinking?

__


On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
> have
> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> self-introspective,
> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
>
>
>
> *** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an
> simple fellow, but the toppers & high classes?
>
>
>
>
>
> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > numbers, and illegally.
>
>
>
> *** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> terror
> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> snation
> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
>
>
>
> *** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere.
> You must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir. I
> hope you can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.
>



>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> > From: assa...@gmail.com
> > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> >
> > >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
> same
> > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> >
> > I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they
> have
> > been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very
> self-introspective,
> > finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> > Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> >
> > The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> > come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> > numbers, and illegally.
> >
> > Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other
> terror
> > groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed
> snation
> > that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> > dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the
> same
> > > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> > >
> > > > From: cmaha...@gmail.com
> > > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > > > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir -
> NYT
> > > >
> > > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy
> from
> > > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps,
> and
> > > then
> > > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every
> turn.
> > > >
> > > >  Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major 'democratic'
> > > country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> > > > people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT
> seems
> > > to be
> > > > > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will
> not
> > > stop
> > > > > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper
> > > into
> > > > > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakis

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Dhruba Jyoti Deka]

> I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they have
> been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very self-introspective,
> finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.

 

*** What about the RAW fellows & specially Madhuri Gupta? I am just an simple 
fellow, but the toppers & high classes?

 

 

> The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> numbers, and illegally.

 

*** Then ULFA, NDFB & other fellows were doing and still there?

 

 

> Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other terror
> groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed snation
> that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.

 

*** Terror doesn't belong to a single country. It is increasing everywhere. You 
must find the difference between Terrorism & Revolution in Kashmir. I hope you 
can't say Yasin Malik yet a terrorist.


 
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:59:13 -0500
> From: assa...@gmail.com
> To: assam@assamnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> 
> >If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same
> in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> 
> I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they have
> been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very self-introspective,
> finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
> Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.
> 
> The reverse is not necessarily true. For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
> come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
> numbers, and illegally.
> 
> Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other terror
> groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed snation
> that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
> dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same
> > in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
> >
> > > From: cmaha...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> > >
> > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> > then
> > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> > >
> > >  Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major 'democratic'
> > country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> > > people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> > >
> > > > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems
> > to be
> > > > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > > >
> > > > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not
> > stop
> > > > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper
> > into
> > > > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond
> > Kashmir, and
> > > > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those
> > encroached
> > > > areas.
> > > >
> > > > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever
> > encroaching
> > > > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without
> > firing a
> > > > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing
> > world
> > > > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is
> > occupying
> > > > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world
> > does
> > > > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> > > >
> > > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> > then
> > > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> > > >
> > > > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown
> > terror
> > > > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize
> > the
> > > > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
> > > > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> > > >
> > > > --Ram
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/1

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

>If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same
in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.

I am sure the Pakistanis would love to know this. For a long time, they have
been looking for scapegoats, and Indians, being the very self-introspective,
finding flimsy reasons to quibble, will easily and willingly placate the
Pakistanis, and give them yet another reason to hate Indians.

The reverse is not necessarily true.  For instance, illegal Bangladeshis
come into Assam by the millions. Assamese do not go to B'desh in such
numbers, and illegally.

Pakistan actively supports terror activities in Kashmir, arms other terror
groups throught India. And Pakistan is known world wide as a failed snation
that harbors, and facilitates terror. They have no defense.



On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka <
dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same
> in Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
>
> > From: cmaha...@gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> > To: assam@assamnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> >
> > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> then
> > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> >
> >  Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major 'democratic'
> country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> > people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >
> > > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems
> to be
> > > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > >
> > > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not
> stop
> > > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper
> into
> > > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond
> Kashmir, and
> > > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those
> encroached
> > > areas.
> > >
> > > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever
> encroaching
> > > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without
> firing a
> > > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing
> world
> > > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is
> occupying
> > > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world
> does
> > > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> > >
> > > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> then
> > > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> > >
> > > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown
> terror
> > > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize
> the
> > > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
> > > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> > >
> > > --Ram
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> > > Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> > > POLGREEN<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/lydia_polgreen/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> >
> > >
> > > SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life support
> with a
> > > bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was
> > > unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> > >
> > > Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of rage.
> He
> > > had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a
> protest
> > > against India<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/india/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> >’s
> > > military presence in this disputed province.
> > >
> > > For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces
> in
> > > Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> > > Pakistan<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/pakistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> >,
> > > which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been largely
> > > vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they face
> a
> > > threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy: an
> > > intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence that
> > > includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters, mothers,
> > 

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

> I didn't realize you all hold India, VChina, Russia in the same
bracket of 'democratic countries'. Or is it
>a desperate, but laughable  attempt to avoid addressing the question :-)?

Well, many netters swear up & down about the high qualities of China and
their Maoist cousins running amok in India. I threw in the
Ruskis for some flavor.
btw: Russia is a democracy, still fledgling, but nevertheless one - what
with perestroika well into 2 decades.

> No? Why is it spurious ? What should be a 'genuine' question  that
could elicit a true answer ?

Not genuine, because India is NOT the only country riddled with terror
groups. There are many countries faced with similar problems. Why single out
India only?

>>The US has them - (Oklahoma City bombing. In the US you also have like
Ruby
>> Ridge and so on,

> I did not realize that the US Army , with AFSPA like powers have
occupied the states trying to root
>out them terrorists . Are they doing it in Texas perhaps :-)?

The US has the ATF, which has wide powers, and the US does NOT need to have
a AFSPA like act. It is in a different league,
and the ATF and even the local police will swift and immediate action
against any group that goes around brandishing weapons with terroist intent.
You do remember Waco, and then Oklahoma. The US army doesn't need to bother
with small potatoes.


>>  and in the UK, they have had terror attacks by their own
>> citizens - albeit by 2nd generation Pakistani Britons, who the UK
mistakenly
>> thought had given their loyalties to the country oftheir birth (the UK).

> Aaah, them Muslims! Britain too therefore must be an armed camp with
its army deployed in every borough, huh?

You would love that characterization, wouldn't you C'da?. "them Muslims" are
your words not mine.
There are other Muslims in the UK from other countries, but it was the
Pakistanis that bombed the buses, killing a lot of people.

Also, a number of these Pakistanis, their mosques etc are becoming hotbeds
of terror groups (usually young Pakistanis, born and bred in the UK), and
hate speech by some mullas.

Yeah, and where has the UK been amiss in caring for these disaffected
groups? All the democracy, fairness, and rule of law, great governance did
not help the Brits. They could NOT protect themselves of home grown terror -
the Pakistani Britons.


>Here is an incomplete list of terror groups by country.

> Terror groups and citizens in revolt are two different things. You may
attempt to equate the two, but
>only the informationally challenged will by that.

You can call them angels or downright model citizens, but the article lists
them as "List of Known Terrorist Organizations". Those are not my words.
*
*> Is India the only major  country that waves the democratic flag,
where there are religious, linguistic,
>cultural and economic diversity and disparities, making it uniquely
vulnerable to the kind of upheaval that
>you refer to? Or is there something more to it?

I forgot mention, the need to make terrorism a thriving bidness,
international arms dealing, & scare the living daylights
of common people. We can go on..

--Ram

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Chan Mahanta  wrote:

>
> > Well, 'Democratic' China & 'Democratic 'Russia' has it (remember Beslan),
> > has it, but these countries just shoot their terrorists, and don't coddle
> > one iota.
>
>
>  I didn't realize you all hold India, VChina, Russia in the same
> bracket of 'democratic countries'. Or is it
> a desperate, but laughable  attempt to avoid addressing the question :-)?
>
>
> > But the question is not genuine.
>
>  No? Why is it spurious ? What should be a 'genuine' question  that
> could elicit a true answer ?
>
>
> >The US has them - (Oklahoma City bombing. In the US you also have like
> Ruby
> > Ridge and so on,
>
>
>  I did not realize that the US Army , with AFSPA like powers have
> occupied the states trying to root
> out them terrorists . Are they doing it in Texas perhaps :-)?
>
> Now if I may, would it be fair for me to characterize this response as an
> utterly disingenuous one ?
>
>
> >  and in the UK, they have had terror attacks by their own
> > citizens - albeit by 2nd generation Pakistani Britons, who the UK
> mistakenly
> > thought had given their loyalties to the country oftheir birth (the UK).
>
>  Aaah, them Muslims! Britain too therefore must be an armed camp with
> its army deployed in every borough, huh?
>
>
> >Here is an incomplete list of terror groups by country.
>
>  Terror groups and citizens in revolt are two different things. You may
> attempt to equate the two, but
> only the informationally challenged will by that.
>
>
> > Some are these reasons are : Religion, language, culture and economics.
>
>  Is India the only major  country that waves the democratic flag, where
> there are religious, linguistic,
> cultural and economic diversity and disparities, making it uniquely
> vulnerable to the kind of upheaval that
> yo

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Chan Mahanta]

> Well, 'Democratic' China & 'Democratic 'Russia' has it (remember Beslan),
> has it, but these countries just shoot their terrorists, and don't coddle
> one iota.


 I didn't realize you all hold India, VChina, Russia in the same bracket of 
'democratic countries'. Or is it
a desperate, but laughable  attempt to avoid addressing the question :-)?


> But the question is not genuine. 

 No? Why is it spurious ? What should be a 'genuine' question  that could 
elicit a true answer ?


>The US has them - (Oklahoma City bombing. In the US you also have like Ruby
> Ridge and so on, 


 I did not realize that the US Army , with AFSPA like powers have occupied 
the states trying to root 
out them terrorists . Are they doing it in Texas perhaps :-)?

Now if I may, would it be fair for me to characterize this response as an 
utterly disingenuous one ?


>  and in the UK, they have had terror attacks by their own
> citizens - albeit by 2nd generation Pakistani Britons, who the UK mistakenly
> thought had given their loyalties to the country oftheir birth (the UK).

 Aaah, them Muslims! Britain too therefore must be an armed camp with its 
army deployed in every borough, huh?


>Here is an incomplete list of terror groups by country.

 Terror groups and citizens in revolt are two different things. You may 
attempt to equate the two, but
only the informationally challenged will by that.


> Some are these reasons are : Religion, language, culture and economics.

 Is India the only major  country that waves the democratic flag, where 
there are religious, linguistic, 
cultural and economic diversity and disparities, making it uniquely vulnerable 
to the kind of upheaval that
you refer to? Or is there something more to it?







On Aug 16, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

>>  Let us assume that is true.  If so, what other major 'democratic'
> country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
>> people up in arms against itself?  And does it tell you something ?
> 
> Well, 'Democratic' China & 'Democratic 'Russia' has it (remember Beslan),
> has it, but these countries just shoot their terrorists, and don't coddle
> one iota.
> 
> But the question is not genuine. Why do you think some of these countries
> (below have them also)?
> 
> The US has them - (Oklahoma City bombing. In the US you also have like Ruby
> Ridge and so on, and in the UK, they have had terror attacks by their own
> citizens - albeit by 2nd generation Pakistani Britons, who the UK mistakenly
> thought had given their loyalties to the country oftheir birth (the UK).
> 
> You have also had terror attacks in Japan (Red Army faction groups).
> 
> Here is an incomplete list of terror groups by country.
> 
> http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/terrorist-groups.cfm
> 
> There are many reasons why some people turn to turning against their own
> country.
> 
> Some are these reasons are : Religion, language, culture and economics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Chan Mahanta  wrote:
> 
>>> India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
>>> within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
>>> from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
>> then
>>> have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
>> 
>>  Let us assume that is true.  If so, what other major 'democratic'
>> country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
>> people up in arms against itself?  And does it tell you something ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>> 
>>> This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems to
>> be
>>> against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
>>> 
>>> Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not
>> stop
>>> with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper into
>>> India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond Kashmir,
>> and
>>> 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those
>> encroached
>>> areas.
>>> 
>>> India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever
>> encroaching
>>> neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without
>> firing a
>>> single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing
>> world
>>> opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is occupying
>>> Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world
>> does
>>> not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
>>> 
>>> India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
>>> within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
>>> from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
>> then
>>> have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
>>> 
>>> This enemy comes i

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

> Let us assume that is true.  If so, what other major 'democratic'
country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
>people up in arms against itself?  And does it tell you something ?

Well, 'Democratic' China & 'Democratic 'Russia' has it (remember Beslan),
has it, but these countries just shoot their terrorists, and don't coddle
one iota.

But the question is not genuine. Why do you think some of these countries
(below have them also)?

The US has them - (Oklahoma City bombing. In the US you also have like Ruby
Ridge and so on, and in the UK, they have had terror attacks by their own
citizens - albeit by 2nd generation Pakistani Britons, who the UK mistakenly
thought had given their loyalties to the country oftheir birth (the UK).

You have also had terror attacks in Japan (Red Army faction groups).

Here is an incomplete list of terror groups by country.

http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/terrorist-groups.cfm

There are many reasons why some people turn to turning against their own
country.

Some are these reasons are : Religion, language, culture and economics.






On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Chan Mahanta  wrote:

> > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> then
> > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
>
>  Let us assume that is true.  If so, what other major 'democratic'
> country in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> people up in arms against itself?  And does it tell you something ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
> > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems to
> be
> > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> >
> > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not
> stop
> > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper into
> > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond Kashmir,
> and
> > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those
> encroached
> > areas.
> >
> > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever
> encroaching
> > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without
> firing a
> > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing
> world
> > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is occupying
> > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world
> does
> > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> >
> > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and
> then
> > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> >
> > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown terror
> > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize
>  the
> > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
> > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> >
> > --Ram
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> > Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> > POLGREEN<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/lydia_polgreen/index.html?inline=nyt-per
> >
> >
> > SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life support
> with a
> > bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was
> > unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> >
> > Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of rage.
> He
> > had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a
> protest
> > against India<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/india/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> >’s
> > military presence in this disputed province.
> >
> > For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces in
> > Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> > Pakistan<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/pakistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo
> >,
> > which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been largely
> > vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they face a
> > threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy: an
> > intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence that
> > includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters, mothers,
> > uncles and grandparents.
> >
> > The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer, have led
> India
> > to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory. Not just
> > beca

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Dhruba Jyoti Deka]

If Terrorism in India is due to Pakistan, Bangladesh & China, then the same in 
Pakistan, Bangladesh should be due to India.
 
> From: cmaha...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:42:36 -0500
> To: assam@assamnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT
> 
> > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and then
> > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> 
>  Let us assume that is true. If so, what other major 'democratic' country 
> in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
> people up in arms against itself? And does it tell you something ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> 
> > This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems to be
> > against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> > 
> > Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not stop
> > with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper into
> > India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond Kashmir, and
> > 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those encroached
> > areas.
> > 
> > India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever encroaching
> > neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without firing a
> > single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing world
> > opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is occupying
> > Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world does
> > not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> > 
> > India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> > within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> > from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and then
> > have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> > 
> > This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown terror
> > outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize the
> > dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
> > murderous groups running loose in the country.
> > 
> > --Ram
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> > Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> > POLGREEN
> > 
> > SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life support with a
> > bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was
> > unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> > 
> > Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of rage. He
> > had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a protest
> > against 
> > India’s
> > military presence in this disputed province.
> > 
> > For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces in
> > Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> > Pakistan,
> > which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been largely
> > vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they face a
> > threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy: an
> > intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence that
> > includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters, mothers,
> > uncles and grandparents.
> > 
> > The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer, have led India
> > to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory. Not just
> > because of their ferocity and persistence, but because they signal the
> > failure of decades of efforts to win the assent of Kashmiris using just
> > about any tool available: money, elections and overwhelming force.
> > 
> > “We need a complete revisit of what our policies in Kashmir have been,” said
> > Amitabh Mattoo, a professor of strategic affairs at Jawaharlal Nehru
> > University in New Delhi and a Kashmiri Hindu. “It is not about money — you
> > have spent huge amounts of money. It is not about fair elections. It is
> > about reaching out to a generation of Kashmiris who think India is a huge
> > monster represented by bunkers and security forces.”
> > 
> > Indeed, Kashmir’s demand for self-determination is sharper today than it has
> > been at perhaps any other time in the region’s troubled history. It comes as
> > — and in part because — diplomatic efforts remain

Re: [Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Chan Mahanta]

> India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and then
> have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.

 Let us assume that is true.  If so, what other major 'democratic' country 
in the world can you name that has this problem, of its own
people up in arms against itself?  And does it tell you something ?
















On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

> This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems to be
> against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.
> 
> Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not stop
> with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper into
> India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond Kashmir, and
> 1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those encroached
> areas.
> 
> India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever encroaching
> neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without firing a
> single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing world
> opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is occupying
> Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world does
> not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.
> 
> India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
> within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
> from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and then
> have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.
> 
> This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown terror
> outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize  the
> dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
> murderous groups running loose in the country.
> 
> --Ram
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
> Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
> POLGREEN
> 
> SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life support with a
> bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was
> unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.
> 
> Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of rage. He
> had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a protest
> against 
> India’s
> military presence in this disputed province.
> 
> For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces in
> Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
> Pakistan,
> which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been largely
> vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they face a
> threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy: an
> intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence that
> includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters, mothers,
> uncles and grandparents.
> 
> The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer, have led India
> to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory. Not just
> because of their ferocity and persistence, but because they signal the
> failure of decades of efforts to win the assent of Kashmiris using just
> about any tool available: money, elections and overwhelming force.
> 
> “We need a complete revisit of what our policies in Kashmir have been,” said
> Amitabh Mattoo, a professor of strategic affairs at Jawaharlal Nehru
> University in New Delhi and a Kashmiri Hindu. “It is not about money — you
> have spent huge amounts of money. It is not about fair elections. It is
> about reaching out to a generation of Kashmiris who think India is a huge
> monster represented by bunkers and security forces.”
> 
> Indeed, Kashmir’s demand for self-determination is sharper today than it has
> been at perhaps any other time in the region’s troubled history. It comes as
> — and in part because — diplomatic efforts remain frozen to resolve the
> dispute created more than 60 years ago with the partition of mostly Hindu
> India and Muslim Pakistan. Today each nation controls part of Kashmir, whose
> population is mostly Muslim.
> 
> Secret negotiations in 2007, which came close to creating an autonomous
> region shared by the two countries, foundered as Pervez
> Musharraf,
> then Pakistan’s presid

[Assam] Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir - NYT

[Ram Sarangapani]

This appeared in the NYT a couple of days ago. As usual, the NYT seems to be
against India and its position vis-a-vis Kashmir.

Many Indians think (and rightly so) - that the Kashmir problem will not stop
with Kashmir. Pakistan will make sure to encroach deeper and deeper into
India, by pumping in hordes of Pakistanis into India far beyond Kashmir, and
1-, 20 years down the line start demanding a plebiscites in those encroached
areas.

India is in a precarious place, wedged between two hostile, ever encroaching
neighbors. In the East, B'desh has all but taken over Assam without firing a
single bullet, and in the West, Pakistan is slowly but surely changing world
opinion against India - basically making her look as if she is occupying
Kashmir. China holds 1/3rd of Kashmir, but the Pakistanis and the world does
not have the guts to tell the Chinese to withdraw.

India is faced by a 3rd enemy - a far more insidious one, an enemy from
within. This enemy will feed on precious Indian resources, get arms
from China and Pakistan, use Bangladesh and other places as camps, and then
have teary-eyed HR groups crying foul and ill-treatment at every turn.

This enemy comes in the form of Maoists, insurgents, & home grown terror
outfits. The sooner the Central & state leaderships acknowledge,realize  the
dangers of these groups, the better off India will be to quell these
murderous groups running loose in the country.

--Ram



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/asia/13kashmir.html?pagewanted=print
Indian Forces Face Broader Revolt in Kashmir By LYDIA
POLGREEN

SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Late Sunday night, after six days on life support with a
bullet in his brain, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was
unhooked from his ventilator at a hospital here.

Mr. Nabi was the 50th person to die in Kashmir’s bloody summer of rage. He
had been shot in the head, his family and witnesses said, during a protest
against 
India’s
military presence in this disputed province.

For decades, India maintained hundreds of thousands of security forces in
Kashmir to fight an insurgency sponsored by
Pakistan,
which claims this border region, too. The insurgency has been largely
vanquished. But those Indian forces are still here, and today they face a
threat potentially more dangerous to the world’s largest democracy: an
intifada-like popular revolt against the Indian military presence that
includes not just stone-throwing young men but their sisters, mothers,
uncles and grandparents.

The protests, which have erupted for a third straight summer, have led India
to one of its most serious internal crises in recent memory. Not just
because of their ferocity and persistence, but because they signal the
failure of decades of efforts to win the assent of Kashmiris using just
about any tool available: money, elections and overwhelming force.

“We need a complete revisit of what our policies in Kashmir have been,” said
Amitabh Mattoo, a professor of strategic affairs at Jawaharlal Nehru
University in New Delhi and a Kashmiri Hindu. “It is not about money — you
have spent huge amounts of money. It is not about fair elections. It is
about reaching out to a generation of Kashmiris who think India is a huge
monster represented by bunkers and security forces.”

Indeed, Kashmir’s demand for self-determination is sharper today than it has
been at perhaps any other time in the region’s troubled history. It comes as
— and in part because — diplomatic efforts remain frozen to resolve the
dispute created more than 60 years ago with the partition of mostly Hindu
India and Muslim Pakistan. Today each nation controls part of Kashmir, whose
population is mostly Muslim.

Secret negotiations in 2007, which came close to creating an autonomous
region shared by the two countries, foundered as Pervez
Musharraf,
then Pakistan’s president, lost his grip on power. The terrorist attacks in
Mumbai, India’s financial capital, by Pakistani militants in 2008 derailed
any hope for further talks.

Not least, India has consistently rebuffed any attempt at outside mediation
or diplomatic entreaties, including efforts by the United States. The
intransigence has left Kashmiris empty-handed and American officials with
little to offer Pakistan on its central preoccupation — India and Kashmir —
as they struggle to encourage Pakistan’s help in cracking down on the
Talibanand
other militants in the country.

With no apparent avenue to progress, many Kashmiris are de

[Assam] Gandhi/Nehru family can do no wrong ---rediff article

[Ram Dhar]

and the tradition continues ,very recently with Bhopal gas  issue Arjun Singh 
showed  his sycophantic streak. It's in every congresswallas DNA ..
 
 
http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/aug/16/column-virendra-kapoor-asks-if-sonias-family-can-ever-be-wrong.htm
 
  
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[Assam] Assam down town University.

[Buljit Buragohain]

Assam down town University:


University Inauguration

Event Date: 5th September 2010



The Assam down town University will be formally Inaugurated on
 the 5th of September 2010 by Shri B.K.Handique, Honb'l Union Minister 
of Mines and Department of North East Region. The meeting will be held 
at the University campus at Panikhaiti.



Commencement Of Engineering,Pharmacy And Managment Programs

Event
 Date: 19th August

The Engineering, Pharmacy and Management 
Programs will commence from 19th of August 2010. The Orientation will be
 held on 19th August and the classes will commence from the 20th of 
August. The hostles will open on 18th for all the students who have 
taken hostel admissions.

Address:

Assam down town University
Sankar Madhab Path,
Gandhi Nagar, Panikhaiti,
Guwahati-781026, Assam, India

Tel:91-98641 3, 0361-2330008

Fax:91-361-2330678

E-mail: dut...@sancharnet.in


Website: http://www.adtu.in



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[Assam] I Loved This One---from ToI

[Krishnendu Chakraborty]

1)  Why only 10 MPs from Assam.  In another post 
(http://assamnet.org/pipermail/assam_assamnet.org/2010-August/026808.html)   
you  said even other states want autonomy .  So why would MPs from those states 
not join ?
 
2) I understand that they might not be able to articulate why they want 
autonomy.  But then don't we have friends who can help them ?  I mean those who 
are asking for Sovereignty ... a couple of steps farther than Autonomy.  
 
3) I understand from some of your post that you are all for Sovereign Assam.  
You want Assam to be out of India.  And you believe people of Assam also want 
the same.  Now if that is true,  are we to believe that no one in Assam know 
WHY they want Sovereignty (or a few  steps behind  --  autonomy)  but they just 
want it for some unknown reason ?
 


Let us say the entire lot of, what, ten MPs from Assam went and raised a hue 
and cry wanting autonomy. If someone asks them WHY they want autonomy, what 
would they say? If some like YOU could not, or would not articulate it, 
candidly, you havingNO personal motives involved, can you imagine this crew 
will be able to go say they want autonomy because the Indian system is broken, 
and that they want autonomy to reform and reorganize the system to fit their 
own needs, to be responsive, to be accountable, to be progressive ?
And if they would want to, would they have the wherewithal to articulate a 
response?
By asking a question like this, are you not displaying your own unwillingness 
to recognize the realities and deal with them with a view to obtaining results?

On Aug 15, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Dilip Deka wrote:
> All MPs from Assam do not belong to the same party. The same applies to the 
> other states that I was talking about.
> Are you saying there is not a single parliamentarian who wants to bring up 
> Autonomy? Even if interested parties pay him/them? :-)
> 
> 
> 



  
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