Re: [Assam] Searching for Something Good to Say About India - NYT, June 29th
There is an element of truth in the author's statements. As a nation( when compared to China ), we haven't achieved much. Beyond the Tatas, Reliance, and a few IT cos there is no Indian brand that is world famous. Even in the IT sector, Infosys, Wipro etc are big Software players but not an innovation company( like IBM, Google, Apple etc ). We are still a big defence buyer( rather than a producer ). We rely on Russian and US/European tech to support our defence units. Infrastructure wise, I would think Delhi International Airport is the biggest achievement of the country and this was possible only because the Common Wealth Games 2010 was held there. Is there something else that we can be proud about? The Worli Mumbai sea link, maybe. Just for comparison sake: Quite a lot of Chinese Univ make it to the Best 100 in the World. We have none. Chinese infrastructure is at least 20 years ahead of idea - fastest train, world class airports, metro rails, bridges. ( Readers are encouraged to search for the keywords - tallest, highest, biggest, largest, longest etc to anything related to infrastructure eg "tallest bridge", "longest bridge" etc and you will surely find a mention of China in the list ). Defence - China has even started manufacturing their own commercial planes, stealth aircrafts. Sports - lets not go there. BTW, I would encourage people who like to travel to visit China. It's worth it. However I do know that western media will never portray any positive image of India to it's people. They constantly feed the images of call centres, slums, cows and defecation on road/rails. I think it makes it's people feel privileged. As a hint - remember the fuss that was made before the Common Wealth games in Delhi. Aus media went berserk displaying images of athlete's villages which were not completed - the mud, squalor and the stink. It made lots of news and several athletes pulled out before the games for "health and safety" reasons. However none of the media outlets carried pics of the quarters after the handover. It was only through facebook pages of some teams that you could see that the final delivered product was not that bad after all. JS ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Searching for Something Good to Say About India - NYT, June 29th
Hi C'da, I really like Joseph's writing style, and can actually agree with a lot he says. On some things, I am conflicted: 'Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore.' Actually the opposite is also true Nobody hates India in some cases. But what Joseph and others miss is that there are some people (NRI/NRAs) who really do emotionally, and sincerely invest interests in India (or Assam). I believe that there is such a section. I may actually completely disagree with their views, but do admire their sincerity. I do agree with the basic problems with many Indians. They do not want to see the problems, and many think India has arrived. But that is not a national indictment. There is that resentment and push back, when NRIs point it out. Maybe it is a natural reaction. There is hubris, where none need exist. Corruption and scandals are too everyday, to galvanize the country into action. About software etc - I don't think the world measures expertise by the number of licenses held in India. But most people know that a lot of development is done in India he makes it sound like it's just call centers manned by Indians with poor accents. His comparison of India to Pakistan is really laughable. Pakistan is a country that is barely trying to remain as one. Its a country in turmoil at best. I like Pankaj Mishra's writings. Here is an interview with Mishra (2007) -- pretty good. http://www.believermag.com/issues/200703/?read=interview_mishra --Ram On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > OK, I will take the bait Ram :-). > > So what do YOU think of it? Is Manu Joseph trying to stir up trouble, or > is he just another one of those > India bashers, or perhaps a western-apologist in the style of , as many of > us say here seem to think in this forum, > Pankaj Mishra? > > > BTW, I read Manu Joseph's Serious Men last year. One of the best books by > an Indian English language writer, about > contemporary India. He is an astute, empathic observer of the Indian > condition and merciless with his prose. > One could however easily miss the satire and the biting commentary in the > fiction he weaves. It is a take-no-prisoners expose' > of the myths of a modern India so many like to wave around. But it is not a > hard or depressing read. It is laced > with intelligent comedy that I thoroughly enjoyed, even though at times his > brutal treatment of seemingly ordinary people's > foibles and vanities were quite unnecessary. > > c-da > > > On Jul 6, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > Any takers? > > ___ > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/world/asia/30iht-letter30.html?pagewanted=2&sq=India&st=cse&scp=4 > > > > Searching for Something Good to Say About India By MANU JOSEPH > > > > NEW DELHI -- It is a question that journalists in India are often asked > > without affection. “Don’t you have anything good to say?” A positive > story, > > a happy story? > > > > The rebuke, when it is an e-mail or an online comment in response to an > > unflattering article about India, is sometimes accompanied by abuses or a > > general description of the journalist’s mother. And it is particularly > > passionate when it comes from the expatriate Indian whose expletives are > > more contemporary. > > > > Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore. When > they > > were in India, they just had to emerge from their house, go onto the > road, > > and the whole nation would assemble itself into an unambiguous pyramid of > > social hierarchy with them somewhere at the top. Respect came with the > > lottery of birth. > > > > But in the First World, it is not so easy. This, and the natural love for > > home, make the expatriate so patriotic that he or she finds it hard to > > tolerate the often embarrassing portrayal of the nation, especially in > the > > news media outside the country. > > > > Among the nonresident Indians, and also the Indians who live here, there > is > > a common view that what the Western news media want to tell their readers > > about India is stories that involve cows, poverty, honor killings and > other > > exotic, depressing or weird things. But is it possible to tell a happy > > Indian story, an honest, complete story, that would fill Indians with > pride? > > > > > > Some Indian newspapers have consciously tried to make Indians feel good > > about themselves. So there are frequent stories about India as an > emerging > > superpower, and India as a cultural force whose curry and music > apparently > > have mesmerized the world, and about how alpha-male Indian companies are > > taking over foreign corporations. > > > > There are commercial rewards for carrying such good news. About three > years > > ago, the shrewd promoter of an Indian publication, a deep philosopher of > > sorts, explained this when he walked into an editorial meeting and smiled > > with sympathy at the journalists. > > > > “I know what yo
Re: [Assam] Searching for Something Good to Say About India - NYT, June 29th
OK, I will take the bait Ram :-). So what do YOU think of it? Is Manu Joseph trying to stir up trouble, or is he just another one of those India bashers, or perhaps a western-apologist in the style of , as many of us say here seem to think in this forum, Pankaj Mishra? BTW, I read Manu Joseph's Serious Men last year. One of the best books by an Indian English language writer, about contemporary India. He is an astute, empathic observer of the Indian condition and merciless with his prose. One could however easily miss the satire and the biting commentary in the fiction he weaves. It is a take-no-prisoners expose' of the myths of a modern India so many like to wave around. But it is not a hard or depressing read. It is laced with intelligent comedy that I thoroughly enjoyed, even though at times his brutal treatment of seemingly ordinary people's foibles and vanities were quite unnecessary. c-da On Jul 6, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Any takers? > ___ > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/world/asia/30iht-letter30.html?pagewanted=2&sq=India&st=cse&scp=4 > > Searching for Something Good to Say About India By MANU JOSEPH > > NEW DELHI -- It is a question that journalists in India are often asked > without affection. “Don’t you have anything good to say?” A positive story, > a happy story? > > The rebuke, when it is an e-mail or an online comment in response to an > unflattering article about India, is sometimes accompanied by abuses or a > general description of the journalist’s mother. And it is particularly > passionate when it comes from the expatriate Indian whose expletives are > more contemporary. > > Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore. When they > were in India, they just had to emerge from their house, go onto the road, > and the whole nation would assemble itself into an unambiguous pyramid of > social hierarchy with them somewhere at the top. Respect came with the > lottery of birth. > > But in the First World, it is not so easy. This, and the natural love for > home, make the expatriate so patriotic that he or she finds it hard to > tolerate the often embarrassing portrayal of the nation, especially in the > news media outside the country. > > Among the nonresident Indians, and also the Indians who live here, there is > a common view that what the Western news media want to tell their readers > about India is stories that involve cows, poverty, honor killings and other > exotic, depressing or weird things. But is it possible to tell a happy > Indian story, an honest, complete story, that would fill Indians with pride? > > > Some Indian newspapers have consciously tried to make Indians feel good > about themselves. So there are frequent stories about India as an emerging > superpower, and India as a cultural force whose curry and music apparently > have mesmerized the world, and about how alpha-male Indian companies are > taking over foreign corporations. > > There are commercial rewards for carrying such good news. About three years > ago, the shrewd promoter of an Indian publication, a deep philosopher of > sorts, explained this when he walked into an editorial meeting and smiled > with sympathy at the journalists. > > “I know what you want,” he said, “You journalists want to bite. You want to > write depressing stories. But you know what the advertiser wants. The > advertiser wants to advertise on a happy page. Write about good things, > happy things.” > > He then said that if Indian journalists were really desperate “to be > negative,” they were free to criticize foreigners. “Attack Greece or > something.” > > It is not as if Indians have not had good reasons to puff their chests in > recent times. But, sometimes what makes a country proud is actually a > poignant indicator of how far behind it lags. For instance, when a country’s > tennis doubles players are national celebrities, as they are in India, you > know that there is something wrong with its general sport talent. > > India did win the cricket World Cup, though, this year, probably the > happiest Indian story since 1983, when it last won the Cup. Indians would > argue that there are happy stories beyond cricket. > > For instance, the figure “8 percent” has its own triumphant character in > India. It is probably the single most important source of joyous Indian > stories. It is the approximate rate at which the Indian economy is growing > and expected to grow. But is it an achievement? > > Writing last year in The New Yorker, Steve Coll described a country whose > number of poor people had fallen by almost half between 1999 and 2008, from > 30 percent of the population to about 17 percent. > > “This extraordinary change, a result of rapid economic growth and > remittances,” he wrote, “is not often discussed on American cable-news > outlets.” > > He then went on to say that in 2005, the nation had attained an economic > growth of “8 percent a
[Assam] Searching for Something Good to Say About India - NYT, June 29th
Any takers? ___ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/world/asia/30iht-letter30.html?pagewanted=2&sq=India&st=cse&scp=4 Searching for Something Good to Say About India By MANU JOSEPH NEW DELHI -- It is a question that journalists in India are often asked without affection. “Don’t you have anything good to say?” A positive story, a happy story? The rebuke, when it is an e-mail or an online comment in response to an unflattering article about India, is sometimes accompanied by abuses or a general description of the journalist’s mother. And it is particularly passionate when it comes from the expatriate Indian whose expletives are more contemporary. Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore. When they were in India, they just had to emerge from their house, go onto the road, and the whole nation would assemble itself into an unambiguous pyramid of social hierarchy with them somewhere at the top. Respect came with the lottery of birth. But in the First World, it is not so easy. This, and the natural love for home, make the expatriate so patriotic that he or she finds it hard to tolerate the often embarrassing portrayal of the nation, especially in the news media outside the country. Among the nonresident Indians, and also the Indians who live here, there is a common view that what the Western news media want to tell their readers about India is stories that involve cows, poverty, honor killings and other exotic, depressing or weird things. But is it possible to tell a happy Indian story, an honest, complete story, that would fill Indians with pride? Some Indian newspapers have consciously tried to make Indians feel good about themselves. So there are frequent stories about India as an emerging superpower, and India as a cultural force whose curry and music apparently have mesmerized the world, and about how alpha-male Indian companies are taking over foreign corporations. There are commercial rewards for carrying such good news. About three years ago, the shrewd promoter of an Indian publication, a deep philosopher of sorts, explained this when he walked into an editorial meeting and smiled with sympathy at the journalists. “I know what you want,” he said, “You journalists want to bite. You want to write depressing stories. But you know what the advertiser wants. The advertiser wants to advertise on a happy page. Write about good things, happy things.” He then said that if Indian journalists were really desperate “to be negative,” they were free to criticize foreigners. “Attack Greece or something.” It is not as if Indians have not had good reasons to puff their chests in recent times. But, sometimes what makes a country proud is actually a poignant indicator of how far behind it lags. For instance, when a country’s tennis doubles players are national celebrities, as they are in India, you know that there is something wrong with its general sport talent. India did win the cricket World Cup, though, this year, probably the happiest Indian story since 1983, when it last won the Cup. Indians would argue that there are happy stories beyond cricket. For instance, the figure “8 percent” has its own triumphant character in India. It is probably the single most important source of joyous Indian stories. It is the approximate rate at which the Indian economy is growing and expected to grow. But is it an achievement? Writing last year in The New Yorker, Steve Coll described a country whose number of poor people had fallen by almost half between 1999 and 2008, from 30 percent of the population to about 17 percent. “This extraordinary change, a result of rapid economic growth and remittances,” he wrote, “is not often discussed on American cable-news outlets.” He then went on to say that in 2005, the nation had attained an economic growth of “8 percent annually, and the economy has continued to expand, if more slowly, even since 2008.” It would be reasonable for Indians to think that Mr. Coll was talking about them, but he was describing Pakistan. That Pakistan shares the same economic pattern as India points to a truth Indians may not want to easily accept: that the economic progress of India, as in most of the third world, is chiefly the consequence of the wealth of affluent countries’ successfully seeking markets that are so poor that they have the space to expand. So is 8 percent as happy a story as it made out to be? It would be parsimonious not to grant India credit for making crucial policy decisions, which have resulted in a new, prosperous middle class. But the happy story of its economic growth is never complete without the grim stories of major scams, a dangerously widening gap between rich and poor and the displacement of small farmers, who are rising in revolt in several parts of the country. India’s status as a software giant has long been a happy story. But it is an exaggeration. India is a not a software giant. In your computer, there is probably not a s
