[Assam] New Book on Assam Forest History -The Hindu

2005-07-26 Thread Ram Sarangapani
For those interested, here is a new book titled 'Jungles, Reserves,
Wildlife, A History of Forests in Assam' by Prof ArupJyoti Saikia,
Cotton College.

Follow the link to see some good photos and a write-up by Dr. MS Prabhakara.


http://www.flonnet.com/fl2214/stories/20050715000207200.htm

 Vol:22 Iss:14 URL: http://www.flonnet.com/fl2214/stories/20050715000207200.htm 


From wood to jungle to forest 

M.S. PRABHAKARA 

Jungles, Reserves, Wildlife: A History of Forests in Assam by
Arupjyoti Saikia; Wild Areas Development and Welfare Trust, Guwahati,
2005; pages 372, Rs.595.

THE story that the author, who teaches history at the Cotton College
in Guwahati, tells is not new. It is nevertheless worth telling again.
This is because facts well known are not necessarily remembered, and
the lessons from such facts are not necessarily learnt. So, while at
times the narration might seem over-comprehensive to the point of the
wood being lost for the trees, to use a metaphor apposite to the theme
of the book, and the minutiae of its details may sometimes seem
irrelevant and even incomprehensible insofar as the general reader is
concerned, the story does hold one's attention.

Put simply, the story is about how the jungle of pre-colonial times
got transformed, one would even say transmogrified, via the mediation
of colonial intervention, into the forest of modern days, with
everything that the two terms imply. There is, undoubtedly, an element
of wistful make-believe in this portrayal of the ancient wood, the
archetype of all untamed vegetation that existed in harmony with its
environment at the very beginning of plant and animal life on the
earth, before jungles and forests, into the pristine jungle of
romance and myth, raw and pure and possessing an elemental beauty and
mystery and magic, all the qualities seen and ascribed by human beings
who even in the earliest times were both awed by its mystery and drawn
by its productive resources, to the wild jungle of pre-colonial
India and in course of time to the more ordered and managed and
profitable forest.

The other, more solemn-sounding, objectives that the author sets for
himself are to tell of the making of the modern forests of Assam and
to frame out the problematic environmental history of the region.
Fortunately, little is heard of such problematique postmodernist
jargon after the opening pages.

This innocence, if one may call it so, of the jungle of
pre-colonial times is contrasted with the organisation of everything
that followed colonial conquest and the incursion of new varieties of
control inherent in the civil and military administration that
followed that conquest: the surveys, the enactment of laws,
regulations and rules; the commercial exploitation of the forest's
wealth for the market whose aim was to preserve the forest to the
extent of and in order to get the optimum out of the forests, the
classic enlightened-self-interest-for-the-common-and-greater-good
approach, the adverse impact that these policies had on the original
inhabitants of the forests, human and animal, whose exploitation of
their environment was for their own sustenance, not for accumulation
of surplus for the market and the creation of wealth for personal
enrichment.

The book deals with all these subjects, and more. Organised under six
chapters (not seven, as the author erroneously says on page 11)
excluding the Introduction and After Words (sic) the story covers
the period between 1874, when the territory of Assam came under direct
colonial rule after being placed under a Chief Commissioner, and 1947.
Technically, however, the cut-off point of the narration is 1950, the
year of the great earthquake that had, in the author's words, a
tremendous impact on the forest resources of Assam in maters of loss
of forest coverage and depletion of forest landscape. The lack of
conceptual precision made worse by prolixity of the passage cited is
typical of much of the author's theoretical formulations - which,
again fortunately, taper off after a while, though examples of such
prolixity and repetition abound. Here is an example from the very
opening pages where the author speaks of the ownership of the forest
and the exploitation of its resources, especially timber and elephant:



RITU RAJ KONWAR 
 
Inside the Manas National Park in Assam. Through a process that
involved colonial intervention and subsequently administrative action,
the ancient wood transformed itself into jungle and then forest,
a term that indicates orderly management and profit.

Quite often the Ahom kingdom is known to have paid tributes to the
Mughal emperor in the form of large number of elephants as war
indemnity (page 9). The elephant often turned out to be the saviour
of royal prestige as it was often given as a gift in the case of
defeat of Ahoms (page 10).

THE story begins with an 

Re: [Assam] New Book on Assam Forest History -The Hindu

2005-07-26 Thread Ram Sarangapani
C'da,

 But Prabhakara's own prolixity of the review is patience-taxing and
 patronizing.


Could be, could be. Dr. MSP used to live across from us during those
Jalukbari days.

At that time, even as youngsters, I remember him to have been more of
a jean-clad cynic than patronizing. The jeans threw us off - since the
rest of the faculty were either suited to the hilt or some like some
from the Sanskrit or Assamese depts wore the traditional
dhuti-panjabi.

Most were uppity, but some like Dr. Maheswar Neog for instance, could
be seen around campus, with clean, white dhuti-panjabi, and always a
nod and a smile for the campus youngsters.

Incidently, in the early 70s, Dr. MSP discovered a mid-sized boat and
other relics in his front yard, from the Ahom times (I think), perhaps
earlier. Archeologists dug up the rest, put a shed over it, and it was
promptly forgotten. I am sure nature must have reclaimed the find by
now.

--Ram


On 7/26/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Interesting.
 
 But Prabhakara's own prolixity of the review is patience-taxing and
 patronizing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 At 8:19 AM -0500 7/26/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
 For those interested, here is a new book titled 'Jungles, Reserves,
 Wildlife, A History of Forests in Assam' by Prof ArupJyoti Saikia,
 Cotton College.
 
 Follow the link to see some good photos and a write-up by Dr. MS Prabhakara.
 
 
 http://www.flonnet.com/fl2214/stories/20050715000207200.htm
 
   Vol:22 Iss:14 URL:
 http://www.flonnet.com/fl2214/stories/20050715000207200.htm
 
 
 From wood to jungle to forest
 
 M.S. PRABHAKARA
 
 Jungles, Reserves, Wildlife: A History of Forests in Assam by
 Arupjyoti Saikia; Wild Areas Development and Welfare Trust, Guwahati,
 2005; pages 372, Rs.595.
 
 THE story that the author, who teaches history at the Cotton College
 in Guwahati, tells is not new. It is nevertheless worth telling again.
 This is because facts well known are not necessarily remembered, and
 the lessons from such facts are not necessarily learnt. So, while at
 times the narration might seem over-comprehensive to the point of the
 wood being lost for the trees, to use a metaphor apposite to the theme
 of the book, and the minutiae of its details may sometimes seem
 irrelevant and even incomprehensible insofar as the general reader is
 concerned, the story does hold one's attention.
 
 Put simply, the story is about how the jungle of pre-colonial times
 got transformed, one would even say transmogrified, via the mediation
 of colonial intervention, into the forest of modern days, with
 everything that the two terms imply. There is, undoubtedly, an element
 of wistful make-believe in this portrayal of the ancient wood, the
 archetype of all untamed vegetation that existed in harmony with its
 environment at the very beginning of plant and animal life on the
 earth, before jungles and forests, into the pristine jungle of
 romance and myth, raw and pure and possessing an elemental beauty and
 mystery and magic, all the qualities seen and ascribed by human beings
 who even in the earliest times were both awed by its mystery and drawn
 by its productive resources, to the wild jungle of pre-colonial
 India and in course of time to the more ordered and managed and
 profitable forest.
 
 The other, more solemn-sounding, objectives that the author sets for
 himself are to tell of the making of the modern forests of Assam and
 to frame out the problematic environmental history of the region.
 Fortunately, little is heard of such problematique postmodernist
 jargon after the opening pages.
 
 This innocence, if one may call it so, of the jungle of
 pre-colonial times is contrasted with the organisation of everything
 that followed colonial conquest and the incursion of new varieties of
 control inherent in the civil and military administration that
 followed that conquest: the surveys, the enactment of laws,
 regulations and rules; the commercial exploitation of the forest's
 wealth for the market whose aim was to preserve the forest to the
 extent of and in order to get the optimum out of the forests, the
 classic enlightened-self-interest-for-the-common-and-greater-good
 approach, the adverse impact that these policies had on the original
 inhabitants of the forests, human and animal, whose exploitation of
 their environment was for their own sustenance, not for accumulation
 of surplus for the market and the creation of wealth for personal
 enrichment.
 
 The book deals with all these subjects, and more. Organised under six
 chapters (not seven, as the author erroneously says on page 11)
 excluding the Introduction and After Words (sic) the story covers
 the period between 1874, when the territory of Assam came under direct
 colonial rule after being placed under a Chief Commissioner, and 1947.
 Technically, however, the cut-off point of 

Re: [Assam] Truth?? police encounter shooting in UK metro

2005-07-26 Thread jayanta payeng
 It is easy to jump to conclusions, but is wrong.
 

!!! Obviously !! Probably all of us know that.

 In fairness to British undercover agents, they
 watched the residents 
 of the address. But they did not know, that there
 were more than the 
 suspects living in that address--it was a housing
 complex. They had 
 no idea that a Brazilian
 family lived in the same building too.

 !!! Hey C'da , let's not just jump into conclusions
just like that. Ends justify means but not
neccessarily at the cost of humane lives. We are not
entitled to snub out lives based on mere suspicions.
After 7/7 or 9/11 , the bottomline is '' eVERY MORTAL
is innocent till pronounced guilty 

Regards

Jayanta

--- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It is easy to jump to conclusions, but is wrong.
 
 In fairness to British undercover agents, they
 watched the residents 
 of the address. But they did not know, that there
 were more than the 
 suspects living in that address--it was a housing
 complex. They had 
 no idea that a Brazilian
 family lived in the same building too.

 
 
 
 
 At 5:39 PM -0500 7/25/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
   Did they really observe him? I don't think so.
 Had they done so --
 they would have realized that he is a Brazilian --
 so has no
 connection with bombings.
 
 I think you are right.
 
 With all their 'watching', it looks like they not
 doing a great job. 
 
 If looks more and more as if they were just
 watching the station and
 singling out South Asians.
 
 --Ram da
 
 
 
 On 7/25/05, umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 
   I am still wondering whether the policemen in
 plainclothes are really
   telling the truth. Initially it was mentioned
 that they had been observing
   the guy for a few days before they entered his
 house and he ran. Now they
   are saying that that he is a Brazilian who had 
 NO connection with the
   terrorist. -- So why where they observing him?
 
  
 
   Did they really observe him? I don't think so.
 Had they done so -- they
   would have realized that he is a Brazilian -- so
 has no connection with
   bombings.
 
   I think they never really chased him to the
 train station
 
   They were just watching people inside the metro
 station - in their plain
   clothes. Saw this brown skinned guy entering the
 train in a thick coat. They
   called out to him - he didn't respond -- so they
 panicked (and also became
   angry.)
 
   They killed him in cold blood -- thinking him to
 be a South Asian.  Had he
   really been a muslim or a South Asian -- noone
 would ever have doubted their
   story that they had really been observing him
 iun his house.
 
   Why don't they give proof ?
 
  
 
   Why don't they show the metro station video - in
 which he is shown running
   inside the station -- and the police are chasing
 him? Every metro station
   has video cameras at their entrance and
 corridors.
 
   They never really chased him insde the station.
 They had suspicion and just
   killed him -- or else show proof!
 
   Now I understand why British police is accused
 of racism by all minority
   residents . Doesn't such a scenario happen in
 Assam or Manipur?
 
   Umesh
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   Rini Kakati [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   How important these police officers are -- when
 it comes to the suicide
   bomber threat we face today, these people are
 the gatekeepers between us and
   the people trying to kill us.
 
   So it is vital these highly trained
 professionals have the confidence of
   their bosses and the ordinary public.
 
   If they don't have that, it might lead them to
 hesitate -- that split second
   could be the difference between life and death
 for hundreds of people.
 
   The Brazilian was quite simply in the wrong
 place, doing totally the wrong
   thing at the wrong time. Yet why he made a run
 for it, despite challenges
   from police to stop, remains to be explained.
 Every one will understand the
   awful dilemma faced by the armed officer. To
 hold fire and risk more
   bloodshed, or shoot to kill.
 
   Rini Kakati
 
  

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[Assam] Re: Truth?? police encounter shooting in UK metro

2005-07-26 Thread umesh sharma

Rini-ji,

I wonder this support you extend to the army men deployed in North East India and Kashmir also. I realize that you being based at UK do feel strongly in support of British police -- and speak against the Human Rights groups.

Do you also support the rape and killing of Manorama Devi of Manipur in July 2004 - allegedlyby Indian armymen-- that they too are humans and can make mistakes and that Human Rights groups are stupid?

Umesh
--
Rini-ji wrote:

The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers, all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their pens ready to dash off the writs. 


Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our policemen must be equipped to deal with them. 

They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a terrorist and not an electrician.Rini Kakati [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


There is no doubt that this is an absolute tragedy. Have you made a mistake at work recently. I did. In fact I do it all the time, little judgements calls that go wrong. Spare a thought then for the policemen responsible for the shooting of Brazilian Electrician. 

But while most of us can walk away from our mistakes relatively unscathed, those involved now can expect to be charged, face loosing their jobs and even going to jail. But to me -- it is exactly this kind of nonsense that cannot be allowed to happen. 

The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers, all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their pens ready to dash off the writs. 


Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our policemen must be equipped to deal with them. 

They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a terrorist and not an electrician. 


Of course the security services have to be accountable. But make no mistake, we are at war here. Not since the Second World War has London been under such sustained attack. 

Those loonies are still on the lose desperate to blow themselves up and take as many Londoners with them as possible. If any one of them come any where near me while I am at the tube or bus, I want to know that an armed policeman will not hesitate to shoot. I don't want images of internal inquires, sackings and courtrooms flashing through his mind. 


If we are to ask them to be responsible for our security we must be prepared to take the consequences, when things inevitably go wrong. 

Every politician in this country needs to have the conviction to get behind our policemen at this crucial time or we may as well surrender to the terrorists now. 


It turn out the Brazilian shot by police on the tube was almost certainly in the country illegally. His immigration status would explain why he ran away from police, and ignored repeated requests to surrender. The Brazilian must have been aware of the heightened tension in London. So his behaviour was not only suspicious it was suicidally reckless. 

It obviously does not justify him being killed. But he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and undoubtedly contributed to his own death, tragic as it was. 


No doubt there will be an explanation in due course. All of this is supposition, but there can be no arguing with the fact that, had he obeyed the police he would still have been alive. 

Predictably, some of our Asian community leaders have been quick to complain about racial profiling by police. 


But since all suicide bombers in London have been young Muslim men with dark skins, who are Scotland Yard expected to target -- Scandinavians, Seventh-Day Adventists ? 

Mr. de Menezes was Brazilian, but he did not have a physical resemblance to the bombers. It is an unfortunate consequence of the Islamist terror campaign that decent Muslims and other young men with dusky skin will come under suspicion. 


Unfortunately we are just going to live with it -- just as genuine white men were singled out for body search on their way into football grounds because of the behaviour of a hooligan minority.
Rini Kakati

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[Assam] Re: Truth?? police encounter shooting in UK metro

2005-07-26 Thread umesh sharma


Rini-ji,

I wonder this support you extend to the army men deployed in North East India and Kashmir also. I realize that you being based at UK do feel strongly in support of British police -- and speak against the Human Rights groups.

Do you also support the rape and killing of Manorama Devi of Manipur in July 2004 - allegedlyby Indian armymen-- that they too are humans and can make mistakes and that Human Rights groups are stupid?

Umesh
--
Rini-ji wrote:

The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers, all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their pens ready to dash off the writs. 


Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our policemen must be equipped to deal with them. 

They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a terrorist and not an electrician.Rini Kakati [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


There is no doubt that this is an absolute tragedy. Have you made a mistake at work recently. I did. In fact I do it all the time, little judgements calls that go wrong. Spare a thought then for the policemen responsible for the shooting of Brazilian Electrician. 

But while most of us can walk away from our mistakes relatively unscathed, those involved now can expect to be charged, face loosing their jobs and even going to jail. But to me -- it is exactly this kind of nonsense that cannot be allowed to happen. 

The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers, all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their pens ready to dash off the writs. 


Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our policemen must be equipped to deal with them. 

They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a terrorist and not an electrician. 


Of course the security services have to be accountable. But make no mistake, we are at war here. Not since the Second World War has London been under such sustained attack. 

Those loonies are still on the lose desperate to blow themselves up and take as many Londoners with them as possible. If any one of them come any where near me while I am at the tube or bus, I want to know that an armed policeman will not hesitate to shoot. I don't want images of internal inquires, sackings and courtrooms flashing through his mind. 


If we are to ask them to be responsible for our security we must be prepared to take the consequences, when things inevitably go wrong. 

Every politician in this country needs to have the conviction to get behind our policemen at this crucial time or we may as well surrender to the terrorists now. 


It turn out the Brazilian shot by police on the tube was almost certainly in the country illegally. His immigration status would explain why he ran away from police, and ignored repeated requests to surrender. The Brazilian must have been aware of the heightened tension in London. So his behaviour was not only suspicious it was suicidally reckless. 

It obviously does not justify him being killed. But he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and undoubtedly contributed to his own death, tragic as it was. 


No doubt there will be an explanation in due course. All of this is supposition, but there can be no arguing with the fact that, had he obeyed the police he would still have been alive. 

Predictably, some of our Asian community leaders have been quick to complain about racial profiling by police. 


But since all suicide bombers in London have been young Muslim men with dark skins, who are Scotland Yard expected to target -- Scandinavians, Seventh-Day Adventists ? 

Mr. de Menezes was Brazilian, but he did not have a physical resemblance to the bombers. It is an unfortunate consequence of the Islamist terror campaign that decent Muslims and other young men with dusky skin will come under suspicion. 


Unfortunately we are just going to live with it -- just as genuine white men were singled out for body search on their way into football grounds because of the behaviour of a hooligan minority.
Rini Kakati

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[Assam] UK or Assam - shoot to kill - a license to kill ?

2005-07-26 Thread umesh sharma
Aren't the police required to lay their lives --before they go about taking civilians lives.
I still remember General Dyer who ordered 1500 unarmed civilians killed in Jalianwalan Bagh in Punjab - when British ruled in India.

Brazilian killing and protests in UK , Brazil etc
http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/26ukblast1.htm

Pakistani or South Asian in UK - who deserves it
http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/26flip.htm

Brazilian was there legally
http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/26ukblast.htm
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[Assam] why South Asians and Brazilians wear heavy coats in UK, USA etc

2005-07-26 Thread umesh sharma
Hi,

I just saw the weather in London for this week - max. = 25 degree Celcius ( 75 F) -- which is less than the day temp. in cold winter weather in most of India or any tropical country - including Brazil.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=0008

Till June I was wearing woolen coats and wind proof jackets in Boston - even as local girls roamed around in shorts and tank tops.

Even now - when US weather pundits are crying HOT HOT weather - at about 100 F ( 39 degree Celcius) it is still just about the end of Spring weather in most of India - in April. Phoenix - in US where the temp rose to 112 F ( 44 Celcius) --and scroes of people died with heat stroke -- is just about the high average temp in Jaipur . The highest in North India goes to about 120 F ( 49 Celcius) in Churu , Rajasthan and in Saharan countries to about 130 F (55 Celcius).

So - when the police in UK or USA go looking for heavy coat wearing young men --- they are NOT trained to distinguish between one who is wearing the coat -- becos he really feeels the cold. 75 F ( 25 Celcius) is really cold!! 

International terrorism makes things more complicated than the home grown variety in Assam or North Ireland.

Am I wrong?

Umesh

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[Assam] Re: Truth?? police encounter shooting in UK metro

2005-07-26 Thread Ram Sarangapani
Umesh

 I wonder this support you extend to the army men deployed in North East
 India and Kashmir also. I realize that you being based at UK do feel
 strongly in support of British police -- and speak against the Human Rights
 groups.

 Do you also support the rape and killing of Manorama Devi of Manipur in July
 2004 - allegedly by Indian armymen-- that they too are humans and can make
 mistakes and that Human Rights groups are stupid?


This is not a logical question and totally unfair. Just because
someone supports the British cops does not mean they are giving tacit
approval to the attackers of Manorama.

In the case of the British cops, the decision was to be made in a split second. 
A error in judgement can be made. I don't think that was the case in
the rape of Manorama. It was probably planned, and carried out by
jawans who have such proclivities.

They are apples  oranges.

RK and C'da have categorically said that this is a tradegy.

London: The errant officers mau pay the price (thrown of the jobs
etc), but the real culprit is the British policy of 'shoot-to-kill'
and their sluething . Add to that the inexperience of the officers in
firearms. The shoot-to-kill policy is defended on the grounds that a
sucide bomber would be carrying explosives on his chest/back, so the
suspect should be shot  in the head. The Brazillian was shot 8 times
from reports (7 to his head, and 1 to the shoulder).
--An overkill one could aptly say.

Assam/Kashmir: Inspite of the horrors of Manorama Devi or other
attrocities, the Indian Govt. does not have a policy of
'shoot-to-kill'. Moreover, Britain is supposedly a paragon of
standards, efficiencies, Human rights and secularism. How do you
compare British inefficiencies with Indian inefficiencies?

IMHO, the officers did what was expected of them under the
circumstances - to follow guidelines. Just like Abu Graibh. In the
end, the culprit is the faulty guideline, and not so much the officers
following them.

In the Manoram case, did the jawans go scott-free? Was there a policy
in the Indian Govt. that jawans are allowed to rape and pillage?

--Ram da


On 7/26/05, umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Rini-ji,
  
 I wonder this support you extend to the army men deployed in North East
 India and Kashmir also. I realize that you being based at UK do feel
 strongly in support of British police -- and speak against the Human Rights
 groups.
  
 Do you also support the rape and killing of Manorama Devi of Manipur in July
 2004 - allegedly by Indian armymen-- that they too are humans and can make
 mistakes and that Human Rights groups are stupid?
  
 Umesh
 --
 Rini-ji wrote:
  
 The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers,
 all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their
 pens ready to dash off the writs. 
 
 
 Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our
 policemen must be equipped to deal with them. 
 They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on
 fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a
 terrorist and not an electrician.  
 
 Rini Kakati [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 There is no doubt that this is an absolute tragedy. Have you made a mistake
 at work recently. I did. In fact I do it all the time, little judgements
 calls that go wrong. Spare a thought then for the policemen responsible for
 the shooting of Brazilian Electrician. 
 
 
 But while most of us can walk away from our mistakes relatively unscathed,
 those involved now can expect to be charged, face loosing their jobs and
 even going to jail. But to me -- it is exactly this kind of nonsense that
 cannot be allowed to happen. 
 The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers,
 all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their
 pens ready to dash off the writs. 
 
 
 Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our
 policemen must be equipped to deal with them. 
 They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on
 fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a
 terrorist and not an electrician. 
 
 
 Of course the security services have to be accountable. But make no mistake,
 we are at war here. Not since the Second World War has London been under
 such sustained attack. 
 Those loonies are still on the lose desperate to blow themselves up and take
 as many Londoners with them as possible. If any one of them come any where
 near me while I am at the tube or bus, I want to know that an armed
 policeman will not hesitate to shoot. I don't want images of internal
 inquires, sackings and courtrooms flashing through his mind. 
 
 
 If we are to ask them to be responsible for our security we must be prepared
 to take the consequences, when things inevitably go wrong. 
 Every politician in 

Re: [Assam] Re: Truth?? police encounter shooting in UK metro - Manorama Devi

2005-07-26 Thread umesh sharma
Ram-da,

I think Indian amry did initiate an inquiry in Manorama Devi case after local outcry -- but I remember the Central Congress Ministers labelling it later - as a case where females became naked in public in Manipur and alleged that one of them was raped later. 

I do not know what is happening now about the inquiry.

Umesh


Ram-da wrote:

In the Manoram case, did the jawans go scott-free? Was there a policyin the Indian Govt. that jawans are allowed to rape and pillage?Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Umesh I wonder this support you extend to the army men deployed in North East India and Kashmir also. I realize that you being based at UK do feel strongly in support of British police -- and speak against the Human Rights groups. Do you also support the rape and killing of Manorama Devi of Manipur in July 2004 - allegedly by Indian armymen-- that they too are humans and can make mistakes and that Human Rights groups are stupid?This is not a logical question and totally unfair. Just becausesomeone supports the British cops does not mean they are giving tacitapproval to the attackers of Manorama.In the case of the British cops, the decision was to be made in a split second. A error in judgement can be made. I don't think that was the case inthe rape of Manorama. It was probably !
planned,
 and carried out byjawans who have such proclivities.They are apples  oranges.RK and C'da have categorically said that this is a tradegy.London: The errant officers mau pay the price (thrown of the jobsetc), but the real culprit is the British policy of 'shoot-to-kill'and their sluething . Add to that the inexperience of the officers infirearms. The shoot-to-kill policy is defended on the grounds that asucide bomber would be carrying explosives on his chest/back, so thesuspect should be shot in the head. The Brazillian was shot 8 timesfrom reports (7 to his head, and 1 to the shoulder).--An overkill one could aptly say.Assam/Kashmir: Inspite of the horrors of Manorama Devi or otherattrocities, the Indian Govt. does not have a policy of'shoot-to-kill'. Moreover, Britain is supposedly a paragon ofstandards, efficiencies, Human rights and secularism. How do youcompare British inefficiencies wit!
h Indian
 inefficiencies?IMHO, the officers did what was expected of them under thecircumstances - to follow guidelines. Just like Abu Graibh. In theend, the culprit is the faulty guideline, and not so much the officersfollowing them.In the Manoram case, did the jawans go scott-free? Was there a policyin the Indian Govt. that jawans are allowed to rape and pillage?--Ram daOn 7/26/05, umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:  Rini-ji,  I wonder this support you extend to the army men deployed in North East India and Kashmir also. I realize that you being based at UK do feel strongly in support of British police -- and speak against the Human Rights groups.  Do you also support the rape and killing of Manorama Devi of Manipur in July 2004 - allegedly by Indian armymen-- that they too are humans and can make mistakes and that Human Rights groups !
are
 stupid?  Umesh -- Rini-ji wrote:  The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers, all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their pens ready to dash off the writs.Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our policemen must be equipped to deal with them.  They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a terrorist and not an electrician.   Rini Kakati <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:  There is no doubt that this is an absolute tragedy. Have you made a mistake at work recently. I did. In fact I do it all the time, little judgements calls that go wrong. Spare a thought then fo!
r the
 policemen responsible for the shooting of Brazilian Electrician.But while most of us can walk away from our mistakes relatively unscathed, those involved now can expect to be charged, face loosing their jobs and even going to jail. But to me -- it is exactly this kind of nonsense that cannot be allowed to happen.  The so called Human rights, countries Legal Aid system -- Liberal lawyers, all must be rubbing their hands in glee as they begin to sharpening their pens ready to dash off the writs.Firearms are tragically, part and parcel of modern criminal society and our policemen must be equipped to deal with them.  They are patrolling London's streets today. Knowing they could be called on fire their weapons at any moment, hoping against hope their target is a terrorist and not an electrician.Of course the !
security
 services have to be accountable. But make no mistake, we are at war here. Not since the Second World War has London been under such sustained attack.  Those loonies are still on the lose desperate to blow themselves up 

[Assam] NYTimes.com: Yoga in the Morning, Cooking in the Afternoon

2005-07-26 Thread jaipurschool
Title: E-Mail This








































	



This page was sent to you by:
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Message from sender:
Indian bachelors in US seem more interested in OSho Rajneesh's variety of Yoga - where they can get sex partners. My landlord, having had many sexual liasons earlier in US - is eager to join Osho Ashram for this reason. Umesh 



TRAVEL 


| July 24, 2005






Yoga in the Morning, Cooking in the Afternoon






By JANE MARGOLIES



As yoga goes mainstream, resorts up the ante offering it straight up or on the side.


 

		













		










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2. Op-Ed Columnist: All Ears for Tom Cruise, All Eyes on Brad Pitt 
3. How Costco Became the Anti-Wal-Mart 
4. Op-Ed Columnist: Toyota, Moving Northward 
5. A New Face: A Bold Surgeon, an Untried Surgery 



 
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[Assam] Difference between a baptist and a catholic

2005-07-26 Thread Dilip/Dil Deka
Hope you guys like this one.



A young boy was walking down a dirt road after church one Sundayafternoon when he came to a crossroads where he met a little girl comingfrom the other direction.-"Hello," said the little boy."Hi," replied the little girl."Where are you going?" asked the boy."I've been to church this morning and I'm on my way home," answered thegirl. "Me too," replied the little boy. "I'm also on my way home fromchurch."-"Which church do you go to?" asked the boy."I go to the Baptist church back down the road," replied the littlegirl. "What about you?" "I go to the Catholic church back at the top ofthe hill," replied the boy. They are both going the same way so theywalk together.-They came to a low spot in the road where spring rains had partiallyflooded the road so there was no way that they could get across to theother side without getting wet.-"If I get my new Sunday !
dress wet
 my Mom's going to skin me alive," saidthe little girl. "My Mom'll tan my hide too if I get my new Sunday suitwet," replied the little boy.-"I tell you what I think I'll do," said the girl. "I'm gonna pull offall my clothes and hold them over my head and wade across."-"That's a good idea," replied the boy. "I'm going to do the same with mysuit." So they both undressed and waded across to the other side withoutgetting their clothes wet.-They were standing there in the sun waiting to drip dry before puttingtheir clothes back on when the boy, who had been visually appraising hisnew friend, finally remarked,-"You know, I never did realize before just how much difference therereally is between a Baptist and a Catholic."Irish Warlock___
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