Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Cool! I used to fix supervisor code (and other system tools) for NIDOS/VSE (EDOS/VSE). :) Ken > snip..
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Don't forget z/TPF!!! On Jul 29, 2013 2:22 PM, "Meyer, Kenneth J" wrote: > Contrary to popular opinion, z/OS is not the only operating system on the > mainframe. You also have z/VM and (gasp!) z/VSE! z/Linux was already > mentioned multiple times, so no need to repeat. :) > > I learned to read dumps back in College by reading dumps. It was much > easier > to debug COBOL and Fortran programs by looking at the LISTX than to > actually > check the logic of those 3 GLs... ;) > > Took a class given by GOAL about VSE control blocks and other such stuff, > and > then built on that without a mentor per se. > > Ken > > > snip.. >
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Had to code in (gun to my head ) Cobol, RPG, with ICCF . One mention of the word assembler sent everyone' s antennae up.. What a buncha wuss's they were. I eventually had too sneak around an use Assembler on VM just to get practice time in. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Capps, Joey Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:55 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Did assembler on all of them. But not as much on VM. As for DOS and it's variants, back then we were very likely to code in Assembler as we had the source and it was common practice to modify it ... Joey -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of T'Dell Sparks Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:49 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers You're less likely to code assembler on the those systems, as with VSE has a different style to coding I/O macros ( No mystery here the DOS/VSE macros in a spate section of the Abel book ) and with the VM/370 you could code without remorse using the Assembler facility under Xedit (forgot what I was called , but worked well enough to run a few programs).If you are running Linux I's use C/C++ just as well , or if you have a c/C++ compiler at your disposal on z/OS you're ahead of the game. You can write simple c programs and look at the .s listing and compare the code generated against a hand coded assembler. Ahh such memorable fun ... I need my milk and cookies and a nap now .. I'm old -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Capps, Joey Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:26 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Yep. I started on DOS (non VS) moved to VS, then NIXDORF VS Extended, then VSE, then VM, then the MVS series ... Shot dumps on them all, coded on them all. I think I'm getting old ... Joey -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meyer, Kenneth J Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:22 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Contrary to popular opinion, z/OS is not the only operating system on the mainframe. You also have z/VM and (gasp!) z/VSE! z/Linux was already mentioned multiple times, so no need to repeat. :) I learned to read dumps back in College by reading dumps. It was much easier to debug COBOL and Fortran programs by looking at the LISTX than to actually check the logic of those 3 GLs... ;) Took a class given by GOAL about VSE control blocks and other such stuff, and then built on that without a mentor per se. Ken snip..
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Did assembler on all of them. But not as much on VM. As for DOS and it's variants, back then we were very likely to code in Assembler as we had the source and it was common practice to modify it ... Joey -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of T'Dell Sparks Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:49 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers You're less likely to code assembler on the those systems, as with VSE has a different style to coding I/O macros ( No mystery here the DOS/VSE macros in a spate section of the Abel book ) and with the VM/370 you could code without remorse using the Assembler facility under Xedit (forgot what I was called , but worked well enough to run a few programs).If you are running Linux I's use C/C++ just as well , or if you have a c/C++ compiler at your disposal on z/OS you're ahead of the game. You can write simple c programs and look at the .s listing and compare the code generated against a hand coded assembler. Ahh such memorable fun ... I need my milk and cookies and a nap now .. I'm old -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Capps, Joey Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:26 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Yep. I started on DOS (non VS) moved to VS, then NIXDORF VS Extended, then VSE, then VM, then the MVS series ... Shot dumps on them all, coded on them all. I think I'm getting old ... Joey -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meyer, Kenneth J Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:22 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Contrary to popular opinion, z/OS is not the only operating system on the mainframe. You also have z/VM and (gasp!) z/VSE! z/Linux was already mentioned multiple times, so no need to repeat. :) I learned to read dumps back in College by reading dumps. It was much easier to debug COBOL and Fortran programs by looking at the LISTX than to actually check the logic of those 3 GLs... ;) Took a class given by GOAL about VSE control blocks and other such stuff, and then built on that without a mentor per se. Ken snip..
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
You're less likely to code assembler on the those systems, as with VSE has a different style to coding I/O macros ( No mystery here the DOS/VSE macros in a spate section of the Abel book ) and with the VM/370 you could code without remorse using the Assembler facility under Xedit (forgot what I was called , but worked well enough to run a few programs).If you are running Linux I's use C/C++ just as well , or if you have a c/C++ compiler at your disposal on z/OS you're ahead of the game. You can write simple c programs and look at the .s listing and compare the code generated against a hand coded assembler. Ahh such memorable fun ... I need my milk and cookies and a nap now .. I'm old -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Capps, Joey Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:26 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Yep. I started on DOS (non VS) moved to VS, then NIXDORF VS Extended, then VSE, then VM, then the MVS series ... Shot dumps on them all, coded on them all. I think I'm getting old ... Joey -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meyer, Kenneth J Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:22 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Contrary to popular opinion, z/OS is not the only operating system on the mainframe. You also have z/VM and (gasp!) z/VSE! z/Linux was already mentioned multiple times, so no need to repeat. :) I learned to read dumps back in College by reading dumps. It was much easier to debug COBOL and Fortran programs by looking at the LISTX than to actually check the logic of those 3 GLs... ;) Took a class given by GOAL about VSE control blocks and other such stuff, and then built on that without a mentor per se. Ken snip..
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Yep. I started on DOS (non VS) moved to VS, then NIXDORF VS Extended, then VSE, then VM, then the MVS series ... Shot dumps on them all, coded on them all. I think I'm getting old ... Joey -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meyer, Kenneth J Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:22 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Contrary to popular opinion, z/OS is not the only operating system on the mainframe. You also have z/VM and (gasp!) z/VSE! z/Linux was already mentioned multiple times, so no need to repeat. :) I learned to read dumps back in College by reading dumps. It was much easier to debug COBOL and Fortran programs by looking at the LISTX than to actually check the logic of those 3 GLs... ;) Took a class given by GOAL about VSE control blocks and other such stuff, and then built on that without a mentor per se. Ken snip..
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Contrary to popular opinion, z/OS is not the only operating system on the mainframe. You also have z/VM and (gasp!) z/VSE! z/Linux was already mentioned multiple times, so no need to repeat. :) I learned to read dumps back in College by reading dumps. It was much easier to debug COBOL and Fortran programs by looking at the LISTX than to actually check the logic of those 3 GLs... ;) Took a class given by GOAL about VSE control blocks and other such stuff, and then built on that without a mentor per se. Ken snip..
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
IPCS being the Good tool for getting fast results, is no substitute for Know how .. Also you might mentions that GTF traces are another avenue for the aspiring programmer to hone their skills. It unfortunate that many companies have become "Gun Shy " of people with assembler coding skills (good was to get your resume tossed in the round file I'd say). Anything that'll help get you going in the right direction is worthwhile investing or investigating. Share has always delivered good tutorial on Assembly Language programming. There are no short cuts or magic bullets .. role up sleeves put on pot of coffee... MVS (JCL is unforgiving) is gonna keep you up on some long nights until you learn the basics rules ,traps and pitfalls. I surely don't know them all. Good luck Soldier -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 23:59:49 -0500, William H. Blair wrote: >Don V Nielsen asks: > >| Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? > >For the most part, everybody I know that's any good at it got that way >all on their own (they may have taken a class from IBM or Amdahl back >when they were young and green, however...) When I was getting started as a Cobol programmer in 1970, I was given a paper with a title something like "Newspaper approach to dump reading". It was based upon a journalist's basic questions, who, what, when, where, why and how, that are necessary in any investigation. That document helped me get started reading SYSABEND dumps of my simple programs. I have no idea where it came from, but I wonder if it might have come from SHARE. Then, as an Amdahl SE, I attended classes in MVS internals and diagnosis. During my years there, I must have analyzed hundreds of dumps. Most of them were SVC dumps, but also the occasional stand-alone dump. In those pre-XA days, the dumps that I examined were all on paper. Today, I use IPCS. I have mentored some to help them with their dump analysis skills. A few have become quite competent at it. -- Tom Marchant
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Same here. I learned on my own, under the tutelage of an expert in my first job, then spent 9 years at Amdahl taking their excellent courses and getting lots of practice on customer dumps. Ended up as an instructor at Amdahl before things went awry with that company ... I believe that Techknowledge Corporation is the spin-off of the old Amdahl Edcuation group and still teaches updated versions of many of those internals and dump classes. Joey Capps -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:43 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 23:59:49 -0500, William H. Blair wrote: >Don V Nielsen asks: > >| Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? > >For the most part, everybody I know that's any good at it got that way >all on their own (they may have taken a class from IBM or Amdahl back >when they were young and green, however...) When I was getting started as a Cobol programmer in 1970, I was given a paper with a title something like "Newspaper approach to dump reading". It was based upon a journalist's basic questions, who, what, when, where, why and how, that are necessary in any investigation. That document helped me get started reading SYSABEND dumps of my simple programs. I have no idea where it came from, but I wonder if it might have come from SHARE. Then, as an Amdahl SE, I attended classes in MVS internals and diagnosis. During my years there, I must have analyzed hundreds of dumps. Most of them were SVC dumps, but also the occasional stand-alone dump. In those pre-XA days, the dumps that I examined were all on paper. Today, I use IPCS. I have mentored some to help them with their dump analysis skills. A few have become quite competent at it. -- Tom Marchant
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 23:59:49 -0500, William H. Blair wrote: >Don V Nielsen asks: > >| Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? > >For the most part, everybody I know that's any good at it got that way all >on their own (they may have taken a class from IBM or Amdahl back when they >were young and green, however...) When I was getting started as a Cobol programmer in 1970, I was given a paper with a title something like "Newspaper approach to dump reading". It was based upon a journalist's basic questions, who, what, when, where, why and how, that are necessary in any investigation. That document helped me get started reading SYSABEND dumps of my simple programs. I have no idea where it came from, but I wonder if it might have come from SHARE. Then, as an Amdahl SE, I attended classes in MVS internals and diagnosis. During my years there, I must have analyzed hundreds of dumps. Most of them were SVC dumps, but also the occasional stand-alone dump. In those pre-XA days, the dumps that I examined were all on paper. Today, I use IPCS. I have mentored some to help them with their dump analysis skills. A few have become quite competent at it. -- Tom Marchant
3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
I had the very good fortune of being brought onboard with IBM Poughkeepsie as a contractor to do LVL II support for SMF, Scheduler and Allocation components. I had no clue on how to use IPCS, read a dump, let alone use GTF or set slip traps. My mentor was a gentleman by the name of Ralph Kaden, who taught me the how. He exhibited a tremendous amount of patience when instructing me how to read dumps. I owe the man a debt of gratitude for this. k.kri...@comcast.net
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 26/07/2013 14:43, John Gilmore wrote: Nothing in my previous post was intended to suggest that courses like those that Bernd and Charles conduct are not an appropriate introduction to dump reading/debugging. They are certainly very helpful, but I was concerned to emphasize the role of colleagues and mentors. I now routinely see situations in which a mainframe shop loses some single person who has critical skills, because he or she retires or goes elsewhere, and then discovers that it is at risk: no one else has the skills needed to do what he or she was doing. I think the same thing can happen any where. I am not scheduled to retire for 12 months but its already obvious to my managers that it will leave a big hole in our capabilities. Even if they were allowed to replace the post they would only get the technical skills not the accumulated knowledge of our systems and how they fit together... This, which I think of as understaffing---It is good, cost-conscious management in the view of others---makes mentoring impossible; and the orderly transfer of skills from one professional generation to the next stops. Another issue is that certainly in the UK in the current environment many don't want to learn. They have enough work to keep them busy 100% of the time. There are no monetary rewards for learning extra skills John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA Dave Altrincham, Cheshire, England -- Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Dump reading is a lost art: For newbies it was one of the principal ways to learn how to debug assembler code. As you became more experienced is was more of a "to do" if you encountered problems. Never like using those Abend Aid "do-me squaggies" .. Just ridiculously cumbersome. C/++ on a mainframe is rare .. If you have had the luxury of using both you are one of the lucky few.. as wading through the manual C/C++ set is a time consuming effort. You'd also have to be able to decipher the macro coding since most macro (RACF comes to mind ) will generate both C and Assembler code. Worst of all You'd have to know USS and Unix (XPG4 anyone ..?? ) inside out, no small feat either. Your candidate profile should include those who an code marco's ( ye olde SETA, SETB, SETC), Dump Reading , GTF Tracing,,, and C/C++ which does not mean cursory skill on z/OS, as SSL programmer and TCIP Programmer guides have specific coding styles. There are no crutches for mainframe C/C++ programmers .. sorry guy's you either know it or you don't. Object programming does not lend itself well to TCPIP programming, unless you are using Java on z/OS but that's another story. Good Luck; T'dell Sparks: Retired aug/2013 Not interested in working anymore.. I had enough -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:48 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers I agree with Ed Jaffe that 'Attitude has a lot to do with it.' I think, however, that attitudes are is often reflections of skills and experiences. Those who 1) have learned to read dumps and 2) have had the habit of reading them reinforced by successes in extracting valuable diagnostic information from them are very likely to use them. Others are likely to try to avoid using them. Dump reading is often, of course, premature. I have seen programmers studying dumps in situations in which brief examination of their source programs by someone else quickly disclosed their errors. EJ's second point, that some programmers write more reliable routines than others, is another important one, but I will leave its discussion for another day. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 7/26/2013 8:10 AM, Ed Jaffe wrote: Good programmers fall into both groups, but those in the first group tend to produce more reliable code. I suppose, in the absence of real data to back up my assertion, I should have said, "IN MY EXPERIENCE those in the first group tend to produce more reliable code." ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Automatic reply: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
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Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
I agree with Ed Jaffe that 'Attitude has a lot to do with it.' I think, however, that attitudes are is often reflections of skills and experiences. Those who 1) have learned to read dumps and 2) have had the habit of reading them reinforced by successes in extracting valuable diagnostic information from them are very likely to use them. Others are likely to try to avoid using them. Dump reading is often, of course, premature. I have seen programmers studying dumps in situations in which brief examination of their source programs by someone else quickly disclosed their errors. EJ's second point, that some programmers write more reliable routines than others, is another important one, but I will leave its discussion for another day. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 7/26/2013 5:42 AM, John Gilmore wrote: Exclusively do-it-yourself schemes will fail; homo sapiens is too short-lived a species; and preternatural dedication must anyway not be expected or required. Attitude has a lot to do with it. To some, dump reading is interesting and challenging. To others, it's a chore. Good programmers fall into both groups, but those in the first group tend to produce more reliable code. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Nothing in my previous post was intended to suggest that courses like those that Bernd and Charles conduct are not an appropriate introduction to dump reading/debugging. They are certainly very helpful, but I was concerned to emphasize the role of colleagues and mentors. I now routinely see situations in which a mainframe shop loses some single person who has critical skills, because he or she retires or goes elsewhere, and then discovers that it is at risk: no one else has the skills needed to do what he or she was doing. This, which I think of as understaffing---It is good, cost-conscious management in the view of others---makes mentoring impossible; and the orderly transfer of skills from one professional generation to the next stops. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
I'm not as fluently in speaking english as John Gilmore is, of course, because I'm not an english native speaker, but that's exactly what I would have answered to Mr. William Blair, too, if I could. Of course, in my classes, which last 3 or 4 days, I only can teach the very basis of z/OS, which are necessary to start with dump reading, and the experience has to come from practicing. The participants who really want to gain experience start reading all the dumps from their department, which consists of some 50 developers - that is: a dump every day. And there are some strange situations, when programs write over the code of other programs etc. and the save areas are all zeroed out - nice exercises. Thanks, Bernd Am 26.07.2013 14:42, schrieb John Gilmore: William Blair's post is in most respects a superb one. There is, however, an important omissis. I already had IBSYS dump-reading skills; I learned to read OS dumps beginning with OS/PCP, i.e., in a radically simpler world; I was able to come to terms with increasing complexity incrementally, over many years; and I had others to talk to about my perplexities. 'Learn it alone and unaided!' is now a counsel of despair. If you want to learn these skills you need to apprentice yourself, at least part-time, to someone who already has them. Find a situation in which you can consult him or her several times a day, and make sure that he or she has something of a vocation for teaching. I have found it possible to impart these skills to two inexperienced but admittedly very able teenagers using such an apprenticeship scheme. In doing so I avoided introducing them to dump-reading aids (other than hexadecimal calculators) until very late, but I did give much attention to the many ways in which all IBM systems are similar, to frequently encountered control-block chaining schemes, stacks, pools, queues and unholy, impure mixtures of them. I have not compared notes with anyone else who has imparted/taught these skills successfully; but there are certainly other equally viable ways to do so that differ in substantial detail from mine. I suspect, however, that the availability of a mentor or mentors is crucial. They figure centrally in other professional training schemes, be they for surgeons or steamfitters. Exclusively do-it-yourself schemes will fail; homo sapiens is too short-lived a species; and preternatural dedication must anyway not be expected or required. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Back a few years I wrote and taught a CP and CMS Debugging Workshop. The course taught dump reading and real time debugging. We used CP DUMPs that had PTFs associated with them. Prior to reading the DUMP information was conveyed concerning interrupt handling, registers, control blocks, major CP subsystems, etc. Then the diagnostic clue seeking began. So it was a combination of CP internals and problem solving. In addition to the aforementioned skills a lot of focus was required. I had no problem giving answers but I expected that attendees could at least run chains, find save areas, identify key control blocks and otherwise goal seek throughout a DUMP. Every VM SYSPROG should go through some internals training and a bit of DUMP reading. Alas the industry doesn't demand it but it should. Raise their VM consciousness. It isn't just a layer to run Linux machines. Dvaid Kreuter Original Message Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers From: Rob van der Heij Date: Fri, July 26, 2013 2:02 am To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU On 26 July 2013 00:44, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > Of course you can teach dump reading and debugging; > Steve Comstock does it, I do it, and others do it as well. > At least it gets them beyond the point where they claim it got a protection exception on a LR instruction ;-) I think both MVS and VM use similar linkage conventions (unlike zLinux) so you can walk back the subroutine nesting and understand where you are in there (don't think anyone destroys save area on exit, so you can be tricked in walking it the wrong direction). But experience makes a big difference. That's why you spot odd patterns, recognize a page table in memory, have your own macros to find stuff, or even recognize the program check old PSW from an ancient release. We used to have a set of dumps around for new sysprogs to practice. When you get into this, it's nice to start with problems that can be resolved so you don't get away with "there is nothing useful in the dump" claims. But it may still not be anyone's job to sit down with a dump for a few hours and come up with the exact scenario to reproduce and fix the problem. Rob
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 7/26/2013 6:42 AM, John Gilmore wrote: William Blair's post is in most respects a superb one. There is, however, an important omissis. I already had IBSYS dump-reading skills; I learned to read OS dumps beginning with OS/PCP, i.e., in a radically simpler world; I was able to come to terms with increasing complexity incrementally, over many years; and I had others to talk to about my perplexities. 'Learn it alone and unaided!' is now a counsel of despair. If you want to learn these skills you need to apprentice yourself, at least part-time, to someone who already has them. Find a situation in which you can consult him or her several times a day, and make sure that he or she has something of a vocation for teaching. I have found it possible to impart these skills to two inexperienced but admittedly very able teenagers using such an apprenticeship scheme. In doing so I avoided introducing them to dump-reading aids (other than hexadecimal calculators) until very late, but I did give much attention to the many ways in which all IBM systems are similar, to frequently encountered control-block chaining schemes, stacks, pools, queues and unholy, impure mixtures of them. I have not compared notes with anyone else who has imparted/taught these skills successfully; but there are certainly other equally viable ways to do so that differ in substantial detail from mine. I suspect, however, that the availability of a mentor or mentors is crucial. They figure centrally in other professional training schemes, be they for surgeons or steamfitters. Exclusively do-it-yourself schemes will fail; homo sapiens is too short-lived a species; and preternatural dedication must anyway not be expected or required. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA I agree with that, John. A class is a great way to get organized, get the basic principles, get some experience. But it is just the start, the foundation. Having a qualified mentor guide you over real world dumps from your real environment is an enormous benefit in getting to be a productive debugger-from-dumps. And, the mentor always learns from the experience too, I daresay. -Steve Comstock
Automatic reply: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
I will be out of the office beginning the Morning of Friday, July 26, 2013. I plan to return to work on Monday, July 29, 2013.
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
William Blair's post is in most respects a superb one. There is, however, an important omissis. I already had IBSYS dump-reading skills; I learned to read OS dumps beginning with OS/PCP, i.e., in a radically simpler world; I was able to come to terms with increasing complexity incrementally, over many years; and I had others to talk to about my perplexities. 'Learn it alone and unaided!' is now a counsel of despair. If you want to learn these skills you need to apprentice yourself, at least part-time, to someone who already has them. Find a situation in which you can consult him or her several times a day, and make sure that he or she has something of a vocation for teaching. I have found it possible to impart these skills to two inexperienced but admittedly very able teenagers using such an apprenticeship scheme. In doing so I avoided introducing them to dump-reading aids (other than hexadecimal calculators) until very late, but I did give much attention to the many ways in which all IBM systems are similar, to frequently encountered control-block chaining schemes, stacks, pools, queues and unholy, impure mixtures of them. I have not compared notes with anyone else who has imparted/taught these skills successfully; but there are certainly other equally viable ways to do so that differ in substantial detail from mine. I suspect, however, that the availability of a mentor or mentors is crucial. They figure centrally in other professional training schemes, be they for surgeons or steamfitters. Exclusively do-it-yourself schemes will fail; homo sapiens is too short-lived a species; and preternatural dedication must anyway not be expected or required. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:59 AM, William H. Blair wrote: > .. and what things > you did (called) in your program then look like in the system trace, et al. > .. > IMO, learning what each possible entry in the system trace table looks like, during normal system operation and during system stress or meltdown situations, goes a LONG way toward understanding what led up to and caused a problem, both for standalone, SVC and SYSUDUMP type dumps...trace table understanding is a very important dump reading skill. -- Mike Shaw MVS/QuickRef Support Group Chicago-Soft, Ltd.
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Binyamin, >> It is possible. Yea- but there are extra conditions, that have to be met 1- (in a key that allows to fetch it - into a key that does not) has to be allowed from CR 3. 3- page has to be fetch protected 2- CR 0 fetch protection override has to be off While 2 and 3 may likely be met - 1 takes more than just being able to write an MVC (or MVI) -- Martin Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE more at http://www.picapcpu.de
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 08:02:09 +0200 Rob van der Heij wrote: :>At least it gets them beyond the point where they claim it got a protection :>exception on a LR instruction ;-) It is possible./ A non-rent program that issues an SPKA followed by a LR. The PIC-4 will occur during the instruction fetch. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies.
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 26 July 2013 00:44, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > Of course you can teach dump reading and debugging; > Steve Comstock does it, I do it, and others do it as well. > At least it gets them beyond the point where they claim it got a protection exception on a LR instruction ;-) I think both MVS and VM use similar linkage conventions (unlike zLinux) so you can walk back the subroutine nesting and understand where you are in there (don't think anyone destroys save area on exit, so you can be tricked in walking it the wrong direction). But experience makes a big difference. That's why you spot odd patterns, recognize a page table in memory, have your own macros to find stuff, or even recognize the program check old PSW from an ancient release. We used to have a set of dumps around for new sysprogs to practice. When you get into this, it's nice to start with problems that can be resolved so you don't get away with "there is nothing useful in the dump" claims. But it may still not be anyone's job to sit down with a dump for a few hours and come up with the exact scenario to reproduce and fix the problem. Rob
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Don V Nielsen asks: | Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? For the most part, everybody I know that's any good at it got that way all on their own (they may have taken a class from IBM or Amdahl back when they were young and green, however, but nobody ever told me they learned it in a classroom setting). But (in the past, mind you) I have managed to teach a few how to do it (who later got good). Nevertheless, it was really the students themselves and their own personal effort that brought their skill level up to "great." There are different types of dumps, and therefore different distributions of dump reading skills that and needed and exist. The focus of this list is Assembler, and if you're an Assembler or even a high-level language (application) programmer, dealing with code that, for the most part, runs in problem state, key 8, then (except when your code branches out into the ozone) the skills you need to read any dump resulting from something you did that turned out to be ill-advised are very, very different from the skills needed to read the dumps that my group reads. When our stuff goes South, we may or may not even be in our own code, and we may or may not even be in one of our address spaces. Much of the storage we peek at is not ours, and even when the bug is in our code it can frequently seem like it's not and nothing that is close at hand in the address space to the current PSW or registers seems to have anything to do with our playpen. The skills needed to figure all THAT out are completely different from "why did my code ABEND S0C4 because I loaded a bad pointer to something in R3?" I think some of the best training can be gleaned when you are in a position to cause your own problems, which you then have to debug by reading the resulting dump. If you have to read a dump caused by something you didn't do, and which you can't even fix, I think one of the essential motivations is simply absent. On the other hand, even if you didn't do it, but you are in a position to fix it (potentially), then there is at least some incentive to dig and understand. All that said, for what we do, figuring out what happened, what the sequence of events were that led up to the failure, requires an understanding in many, many cases of what's going on inside the operating system at the component and interrupt level. Sure, there are the tools (like IPCS) that one needs to learn how to use, but if one does not understand what all those things in the Assembler Services manualS do, and what control blocks they cause to be created, and what events they cause to happen when called, and what all that stuff looks like when a system is running normally, then it's all complete gobbledygook. I can well imagine that for someone who isn't versed in MVS services and internals, looking at a system dump using IPCS could well be like me looking at a Windows storage dump. I've looked over the shoulders of a genuine guru doing that, using tools and facilities that I had never before been aware of. That made it clear to me that if I didn't have an intimate understanding of Win32S (or whatever API was being used), even the few things that could be formatted by some dump reading/viewing tool would forever remain obscure. That is a completely different world, and although we have folks that are immersed in it, that's not me. But more important to this discussion, I think that only the most simple of the "dump reading" skills that I do have would apply to that environment. I know how to debug code, but to debug it from just a dump (which is frequently all you have) requires a set of skills that are dependent on the type of bug it is and the environment in which it manifests itself. If your own code did it, and no other code is involved (meaning no operating system services), it just requires "debugging skills" and the only "dump reading" skills needed are how to use the tool to move around in the dump and find stuff. But if your code didn't do it, or your code did do it but interacted with other code, potentially messing it up, much more than just "debugging skills" are needed. For example, when things go South because you stomped on somebody else's storage (or they on yours), the bug may not even be in "your code" that you are responsible for maintaining. The bug may be in some other product or some other component or even in some other vendor's product (including IBM's stuff or in z/OS itself). Sometimes we have only a dump with storage (of ours) that [we later determined] got overlaid literally weeks or months before something failed and the event came to human attention. Finding the footprints of something like that in a dump usually requires luck of course, but a completely different set of skills than navigating your way around something more straightforward. For folks that want to learn how to read system dumps that are the consequence of failures in the operating system itself, or products like o
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Yes. Check timestamp of original post. Not enough coffee... Sent from my iPad On Jul 25, 2013, at 10:26 PM, "Steve Comstock" wrote: > On 7/25/2013 6:57 AM, Alan Atkinson wrote: >> Share.org >> They run (or did a couple of years ago when I last went to one) classes in >> ISPF that are quite informative. > > Do you mean IPCS? > > > -Steve Comstock > > >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Don V Nielsen >> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:45 AM >> To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump >> readers >> >> Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is >> probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, William H. Blair >> wrote: >> >>> This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My >>> sincere thanks, Jean!) >>> >>> The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe >>> developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with >>> any useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, >>> SMP/E, security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for >>> people who can read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix >>> bugs, and develop new stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know >>> JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If >>> you are not a self-starter, please don't bother (we're not going to do >>> your job for you, and in many cases the only documentation that exists >>> is the code itself). It's OK to have to refer to POPS to make sure you >>> know how something works, but if you can't understand it or won't use >>> it, please don't bother. These positions do NOT require specific MVS >>> subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), but if you have any >>> we won't hold it against you (other groups concern themselves with >>> those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS services for >>> the most part. >>> >>> In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out >>> here (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to >>> esoteric trivia ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't >>> think of a better place to look for candidates, which is why I am >>> asking. Most of the group has been together for 23+ years, but we are >>> getting gray, some have retired or moved on, so we need more like us >>> ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT an issue. Brains ARE >>> the issue. >>> >>> There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston >>> TX, most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from >>> home. Few people have an office; most don't live near one in the first >>> place. Our four >>> zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually >>> works remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time >>> zones (from Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything >>> online or on the phone, so we really don't care where you live. These >>> positions are perfect for people who want to work, but don't want to move. >>> >>> If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at >>> my personal email address. My email client can apparently neither >>> provide nor override the default Reply-To address for messages I send >>> to the list; therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply >>> All" (I guess you should consider that the first part of the IQ and >>> ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your >>> response to me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no >>> need to forward your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this >>> time. Instead, I will tell you more about the positions, answer any >>> questions you might then have, and tell you how to formally indicate >>> interest (i.e., begin the application process). >>> >>> wmhbl...@comcast.net >>> William H. Blair >>> MainView Infrastructure >>> BMC Software Houston TX >>
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 7/25/2013 6:57 AM, Alan Atkinson wrote: Share.org They run (or did a couple of years ago when I last went to one) classes in ISPF that are quite informative. Do you mean IPCS? -Steve Comstock -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Don V Nielsen Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:45 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, William H. Blair wrote: This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My sincere thanks, Jean!) The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with any useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, SMP/E, security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for people who can read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix bugs, and develop new stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If you are not a self-starter, please don't bother (we're not going to do your job for you, and in many cases the only documentation that exists is the code itself). It's OK to have to refer to POPS to make sure you know how something works, but if you can't understand it or won't use it, please don't bother. These positions do NOT require specific MVS subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), but if you have any we won't hold it against you (other groups concern themselves with those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS services for the most part. In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out here (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to esoteric trivia ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't think of a better place to look for candidates, which is why I am asking. Most of the group has been together for 23+ years, but we are getting gray, some have retired or moved on, so we need more like us ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT an issue. Brains ARE the issue. There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston TX, most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from home. Few people have an office; most don't live near one in the first place. Our four zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually works remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time zones (from Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything online or on the phone, so we really don't care where you live. These positions are perfect for people who want to work, but don't want to move. If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at my personal email address. My email client can apparently neither provide nor override the default Reply-To address for messages I send to the list; therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply All" (I guess you should consider that the first part of the IQ and ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your response to me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no need to forward your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this time. Instead, I will tell you more about the positions, answer any questions you might then have, and tell you how to formally indicate interest (i.e., begin the application process). wmhbl...@comcast.net William H. Blair MainView Infrastructure BMC Software Houston TX
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Share.org They run (or did a couple of years ago when I last went to one) classes in ISPF that are quite informative. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Don V Nielsen Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:45 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, William H. Blair wrote: > This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My > sincere thanks, Jean!) > > The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe > developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with > any useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, > SMP/E, security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for > people who can read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix > bugs, and develop new stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know > JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If > you are not a self-starter, please don't bother (we're not going to do > your job for you, and in many cases the only documentation that exists > is the code itself). It's OK to have to refer to POPS to make sure you > know how something works, but if you can't understand it or won't use > it, please don't bother. These positions do NOT require specific MVS > subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), but if you have any > we won't hold it against you (other groups concern themselves with > those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS services for > the most part. > > In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out > here (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to > esoteric trivia ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't > think of a better place to look for candidates, which is why I am > asking. Most of the group has been together for 23+ years, but we are > getting gray, some have retired or moved on, so we need more like us > ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT an issue. Brains ARE > the issue. > > There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston > TX, most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from > home. Few people have an office; most don't live near one in the first > place. Our four > zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually > works remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time > zones (from Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything > online or on the phone, so we really don't care where you live. These > positions are perfect for people who want to work, but don't want to move. > > If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at > my personal email address. My email client can apparently neither > provide nor override the default Reply-To address for messages I send > to the list; therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply > All" (I guess you should consider that the first part of the IQ and > ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your > response to me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no > need to forward your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this > time. Instead, I will tell you more about the positions, answer any > questions you might then have, and tell you how to formally indicate > interest (i.e., begin the application process). > > wmhbl...@comcast.net > William H. Blair > MainView Infrastructure > BMC Software Houston TX >
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Of course you can teach dump reading and debugging; Steve Comstock does it, I do it, and others do it as well. The classes go like this (at least mine): first we take a close look at the compile listing, and try to get a deep understanding of all the informations contained therein and how they help in dump reading later. Then we look at the linker and binder listing in the same way, and we try to get a picture of the layout of the load module or program objects. Then it's time to cover the linkage conventions etc. and to look at the save areas or the tracebacks in the LE dumps. It's necessary to be able to compute the different kinds of offsets (one into another), and to find the relevant sections (static CSECTs, DSAs, WSAs etc, if you have the RENT option set etc.). Some ASSEMBLER knowledge helps, but is not absolutely necessary. BTW: control blocks don't matter much; it's too MVS specific, but the above skills also apply for other OSes (with minor differences). I have done dump classes for more than 20 years now for different customers, and if they do not enable the participants to check out the dumps themselves (immediately), they get at least a deeper understanding of LE, the operating system and the things that the compiler does. Some twenty years ago at my current customer's site every developer was forced to take this dump class once, if he or she doesn't have similar skills from the previous job (for example ASSEMBLER knowledge). It is no more this way, today (unfortunately). Kind regards Bernd Am 26.07.2013 00:07, schrieb esst...@juno.com: I think dump reading is a matter of understanding control blocks. I dont believe some one can teach debugging, it evolves over years of examing and analyizing dumps. It always helps to have the source code. just mt 2 cents Paul D'Angelo -- Original Message -- From: Don V Nielsen To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 07:45:10 -0500 Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it.
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
I think dump reading is a matter of understanding control blocks. I dont believe some one can teach debugging, it evolves over years of examing and analyizing dumps. It always helps to have the source code. just mt 2 cents Paul D'Angelo -- Original Message -- From: Don V Nielsen To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 07:45:10 -0500 Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, William H. Blair wrote: > This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My sincere > thanks, Jean!) > > The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe > developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with any > useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, SMP/E, > security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for people who can > read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix bugs, and develop new > stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get > around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If you are not a self-starter, > please don't bother (we're not going to do your job for you, and in many > cases the only documentation that exists is the code itself). It's OK to > have to refer to POPS to make sure you know how something works, but if you > can't understand it or won't use it, please don't bother. These positions > do > NOT require specific MVS subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), > but if you have any we won't hold it against you (other groups concern > themselves with those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS > services for the most part. > > In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out here > (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to esoteric > trivia > ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't think of a better place > to look for candidates, which is why I am asking. Most of the group has > been > together for 23+ years, but we are getting gray, some have retired or moved > on, so we need more like us ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT > an issue. Brains ARE the issue. > > There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston TX, > most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from home. Few > people have an office; most don't live near one in the first place. Our > four > zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually works > remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time zones (from > Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything online or on the > phone, so we really don't care where you live. These positions are perfect > for people who want to work, but don't want to move. > > If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at my > personal email address. My email client can apparently neither provide nor > override the default Reply-To address for messages I send to the list; > therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply All" (I guess you > should consider that the first part of the IQ and > ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your response to > me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no need to forward > your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this time. Instead, I > will > tell you more about the positions, answer any questions you might then > have, > and tell you how to formally indicate interest (i.e., begin the application > process). > > wmhbl...@comcast.net > William H. Blair > MainView Infrastructure > BMC Software Houston TX >
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
On 7/25/2013 6:45 AM, Don V Nielsen wrote: Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it. Ahem. http://www.trainersfriend.com/Curricula/debugcurr.htm -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, William H. Blair wrote: This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My sincere thanks, Jean!) The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with any useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, SMP/E, security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for people who can read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix bugs, and develop new stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If you are not a self-starter, please don't bother (we're not going to do your job for you, and in many cases the only documentation that exists is the code itself). It's OK to have to refer to POPS to make sure you know how something works, but if you can't understand it or won't use it, please don't bother. These positions do NOT require specific MVS subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), but if you have any we won't hold it against you (other groups concern themselves with those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS services for the most part. In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out here (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to esoteric trivia ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't think of a better place to look for candidates, which is why I am asking. Most of the group has been together for 23+ years, but we are getting gray, some have retired or moved on, so we need more like us ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT an issue. Brains ARE the issue. There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston TX, most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from home. Few people have an office; most don't live near one in the first place. Our four zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually works remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time zones (from Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything online or on the phone, so we really don't care where you live. These positions are perfect for people who want to work, but don't want to move. If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at my personal email address. My email client can apparently neither provide nor override the default Reply-To address for messages I send to the list; therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply All" (I guess you should consider that the first part of the IQ and ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your response to me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no need to forward your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this time. Instead, I will tell you more about the positions, answer any questions you might then have, and tell you how to formally indicate interest (i.e., begin the application process). wmhbl...@comcast.net William H. Blair MainView Infrastructure BMC Software Houston TX
Re: 3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
Where might one one find good instruction on how to read a dump? This is probably my poorest skill and I should be better at it. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, William H. Blair wrote: > This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My sincere > thanks, Jean!) > > The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe > developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with any > useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, SMP/E, > security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for people who can > read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix bugs, and develop new > stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get > around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If you are not a self-starter, > please don't bother (we're not going to do your job for you, and in many > cases the only documentation that exists is the code itself). It's OK to > have to refer to POPS to make sure you know how something works, but if you > can't understand it or won't use it, please don't bother. These positions > do > NOT require specific MVS subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), > but if you have any we won't hold it against you (other groups concern > themselves with those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS > services for the most part. > > In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out here > (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to esoteric > trivia > ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't think of a better place > to look for candidates, which is why I am asking. Most of the group has > been > together for 23+ years, but we are getting gray, some have retired or moved > on, so we need more like us ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT > an issue. Brains ARE the issue. > > There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston TX, > most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from home. Few > people have an office; most don't live near one in the first place. Our > four > zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually works > remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time zones (from > Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything online or on the > phone, so we really don't care where you live. These positions are perfect > for people who want to work, but don't want to move. > > If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at my > personal email address. My email client can apparently neither provide nor > override the default Reply-To address for messages I send to the list; > therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply All" (I guess you > should consider that the first part of the IQ and > ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your response to > me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no need to forward > your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this time. Instead, I > will > tell you more about the positions, answer any questions you might then > have, > and tell you how to formally indicate interest (i.e., begin the application > process). > > wmhbl...@comcast.net > William H. Blair > MainView Infrastructure > BMC Software Houston TX >
3 job openings for mainframe Assembler/C programmers, dump readers
This is being posted with the permission of the list owner. (My sincere thanks, Jean!) The infrastructure team I work with has three openings for mainframe developers and/or product support personnel who have experience with any useful combination of the following: Assembler, C, dump reading, SMP/E, security systems (RACF/ACF2/TSS), etc. We are looking for people who can read dumps (at least a little bit), write code to fix bugs, and develop new stuff in Assembler and/or C. We assume you know JCL, TSO, ISPF, how to get around an MVS system, and read IBM doc. If you are not a self-starter, please don't bother (we're not going to do your job for you, and in many cases the only documentation that exists is the code itself). It's OK to have to refer to POPS to make sure you know how something works, but if you can't understand it or won't use it, please don't bother. These positions do NOT require specific MVS subsystem knowledge (JESn, IMS, DB2, CICS, etc.), but if you have any we won't hold it against you (other groups concern themselves with those things). We deal with common, core, bare-metal MVS services for the most part. In other words, these jobs are perfect for people who like to hang out here (provided that your interests and talents are not limited to esoteric trivia ... I can probably beat you at that game). I can't think of a better place to look for candidates, which is why I am asking. Most of the group has been together for 23+ years, but we are getting gray, some have retired or moved on, so we need more like us ... gray hair or otherwise. Clearly, age is NOT an issue. Brains ARE the issue. There is no "location" for these positions. While I live near Houston TX, most mainframe developers, product support and QA folks work from home. Few people have an office; most don't live near one in the first place. Our four zEC12 and z196 boxes are in Arizona, anyway, so everybody actually works remotely. The team members live at locations that span 12 time zones (from Hawaii to Russia & Israel). We do virtually everything online or on the phone, so we really don't care where you live. These positions are perfect for people who want to work, but don't want to move. If you have potential interest, please respond to me, individually, at my personal email address. My email client can apparently neither provide nor override the default Reply-To address for messages I send to the list; therefore, do not mindlessly use either "Reply" or "Reply All" (I guess you should consider that the first part of the IQ and ability-to-follow-directions test). Instead, please direct your response to me personally at mailto:wmhbl...@comcast.net. There is no need to forward your resume; I am not interested in reading it at this time. Instead, I will tell you more about the positions, answer any questions you might then have, and tell you how to formally indicate interest (i.e., begin the application process). wmhbl...@comcast.net William H. Blair MainView Infrastructure BMC Software Houston TX
