Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
All I know is it was an IBM minicomputer, and there was no IT department running it. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of dave.g4...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:06 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List l...@listserv.uga.edu> On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael > Sent: 31 March 2022 17:58 > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? > > Good point. Maybe it was a System/36? I would have thought a System/38. Really the predecessor of the AS/400. Even System/36 was not available in 1980 Dave > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List l...@listserv.uga.edu> On Behalf Of Dave Clark > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:53 AM > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? > > "IBM Mainframe Assembler List" > wrote on > 03/31/2022 12:47:06 PM: > > In 1980 I worked at a photofinishing plant that used punched cards > > with an IBM minicomputer running AS/400. It also used paper tape, but > > not with the AS/400. > > > > Can anyone guess why? I'll give a hint: it is industry workflow related. > > > I don't have the answer to your question, but -- color me confused > -- how did you work on an AS/400 in 1980 when it didn't become available > until 1988? > > > Sincerely, > > Dave Clark > -- > int.ext: 91078 > direct: (937) 531-6378 > home: (937) 751-3300 > > Winsupply Group Services > 3110 Kettering Boulevard > Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA > (937) 294-5331 > > > > > > ** > *** > This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named > addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary > information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All > unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly > prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any > error in transmission. > ** > ***
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
Cards, no, but TOS supports libraries on tape. Is anybody running TOS under Hercules or similar? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:46 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? What language translator supports COPY members on cards (or in any other sequential medium, for that matter)? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:29 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? A stack of file pointers doesn't work when you're reading the copy files from punched cards. 😉
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
Which assembler. There was everything from BAL on BPS to Assembler (F) on OS. For DOS and OS, libraries were on DASD; for TOS they were on tape. Nothing supported COPY from cards. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Schmitt, Michael [michael.schm...@dxc.com] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:54 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:46 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? What language translator supports COPY members on cards (or in any other sequential medium, for that matter)? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:29 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? A stack of file pointers doesn't work when you're reading the copy files from punched cards. 😉
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
"IBM Mainframe Assembler List" wrote on 03/31/2022 12:57:38 PM: > Good point. Maybe it was a System/36? The docs say System/36 became available in 1983 and was a flat-file system. The docs say System/38 became available in 1979 and was a built-in relational database system. That seems backwards to me but it could have happened that way. ;-) Sincerely, Dave Clark -- int.ext: 91078 direct: (937) 531-6378 home: (937) 751-3300 Winsupply Group Services 3110 Kettering Boulevard Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA (937) 294-5331 * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. *
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List l...@listserv.uga.edu> On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael > Sent: 31 March 2022 17:58 > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? > > Good point. Maybe it was a System/36? I would have thought a System/38. Really the predecessor of the AS/400. Even System/36 was not available in 1980 Dave > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List l...@listserv.uga.edu> On Behalf Of Dave Clark > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:53 AM > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? > > "IBM Mainframe Assembler List" > wrote on > 03/31/2022 12:47:06 PM: > > In 1980 I worked at a photofinishing plant that used punched cards > > with an IBM minicomputer running AS/400. It also used paper tape, but > > not with the AS/400. > > > > Can anyone guess why? I'll give a hint: it is industry workflow related. > > > I don't have the answer to your question, but -- color me confused > -- how did you work on an AS/400 in 1980 when it didn't become available > until 1988? > > > Sincerely, > > Dave Clark > -- > int.ext: 91078 > direct: (937) 531-6378 > home: (937) 751-3300 > > Winsupply Group Services > 3110 Kettering Boulevard > Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA > (937) 294-5331 > > > > > > ** > *** > This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named > addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary > information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All > unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly > prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any > error in transmission. > ** > ***
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
In the early 1960s disk drive were expensive and small; running from tape was the norm. By the time IBM shipped S/360, disk was much more affordable. I never ran into a TOS shop/ -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:01 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? I have done a LOT of assemblies from trays of cards. In DOS/360, in 1970, when I did so, COPY libraries were always on disk. This was even before spooling in DOS, so the assembler literally read from the card reader (well, called an access method that read card-by-card from the card reader). There was a b@st@rd stepbrother of DOS called TOS (yes, the T stood for Tape) that had its SYSRES on tape, believe it or not. I guess its operation was a sight to behold, but I never used it personally and have no idea about its assembler mechanics. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:55 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know.
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
The only change in PGM= is APF. JOBLIB, STEPLIB and SYSLIB used to be strictly PDS; no PDSE or Unix paths. For MFT and MVT there were multiple reader procs, and for MVT there was also the ASB reader. Load libraries could be on any DASD. I hope everybody used only disk and drum; I'd hate to see a lot of fetches from a data cell. For OS/VS, the only supported DASD were disks and MSS. From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:39 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? My very first OSes were OS PCP and CP-67 back in 1969, but I did not do any serious OS/360 coding until around 1975. (I was coding for DOS/360 in the interim.) My recollection is that PGM= worked then more or less exactly as it does now. I don't recall about STEPLIB for sure -- I think then it was more or less as now -- but I am 99% sure than SYSLIB worked then more or less as now. You could IPL a standalone dump from cards or tape, but OS/360 PGM= never supported other than disk-based load libraries, AFAIR. To submit a job you put the JCL deck in the card reader and issued S RDR specifying the address of the card reader (generally 00C). There was no job entry system. You started readers and you started writers. I *think* a program could if it wished read directly from cards or write directly to punch or print, but generally you did not do so. Some programs had to: the 1404 was a combination card reader and line printer (believe it or not). Organizations punched account numbers into cards and then used the 1404 to read the account number and print an invoice on the card. The cards were then mailed to customers, and when they returned their checks, the card was used as a processing document. The 1404 supported double-wide cards -- two 80-column cards joined at a short edge with a perforated strip. The customer kept one card and returned the other. http://secure-web.cisco.com/1DpiEoFVexpUcncbS_0eSMT5L2KADnV3xs4By3HuD3w8T49Oeb-iQQQIlzDgjFGzBRA3ujQem2QQJICSYMRgIjnPmd_IVmfTLp48NcZohCmtisVuxeHzrunb4wY-ptlM6dYbJffjljN1RjvZRsV2wRazEmmPWVM3O9lxAMvZzKidnS8F9uU95E21mtYEm9tpZkYFx3OB6iBxsDXPDu4jeTjc0kNWxJzxDvlYPNKgw_ayw16tM1541-sD--R7R3sXNYFCvOOAl21IKsDoANjGqo-hX6SfsEawM71c-kU1UbfLb_9vlg-Rdvaorhu6iCXzFTxeqWuMk-_fC1xNU6xSE6Ky5p08Nuu-nSqzoQiUXm6RtpBRrz9O02Fkl33754vb8bfvkKaysECOw0OSxtyQE7s6JXtSz9NpLwAbDoW82K1YE9d3IAsHiknVeYlhtBIUt/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bitsavers.org%2Fpdf%2Fibm%2F1401%2FG24-1446-0_1404_printer.pdf talks about 1401 attachment but I remember that Blue Cross of N. Calif. had one attached to a 360/50. Used for billing as I describe above. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 9:01 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? On Mar 31, 2022, at 09:54:38, Schmitt, Michael wrote: > How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know. > How did "EXEC PGM=..." originally work, back when punched cards were used? I suspect SYSIN, but neither SYSLIB nor STEPLIB. -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
Good point. Maybe it was a System/36? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of Dave Clark Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:53 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? "IBM Mainframe Assembler List" wrote on 03/31/2022 12:47:06 PM: > In 1980 I worked at a photofinishing plant that used punched cards > with an IBM minicomputer running AS/400. It also used paper tape, > but not with the AS/400. > > Can anyone guess why? I'll give a hint: it is industry workflow related. I don't have the answer to your question, but -- color me confused -- how did you work on an AS/400 in 1980 when it didn't become available until 1988? Sincerely, Dave Clark -- int.ext: 91078 direct: (937) 531-6378 home: (937) 751-3300 Winsupply Group Services 3110 Kettering Boulevard Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA (937) 294-5331 * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. *
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
"IBM Mainframe Assembler List" wrote on 03/31/2022 12:47:06 PM: > In 1980 I worked at a photofinishing plant that used punched cards > with an IBM minicomputer running AS/400. It also used paper tape, > but not with the AS/400. > > Can anyone guess why? I'll give a hint: it is industry workflow related. I don't have the answer to your question, but -- color me confused -- how did you work on an AS/400 in 1980 when it didn't become available until 1988? Sincerely, Dave Clark -- int.ext: 91078 direct: (937) 531-6378 home: (937) 751-3300 Winsupply Group Services 3110 Kettering Boulevard Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA (937) 294-5331 * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. *
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
In 1980 I worked at a photofinishing plant that used punched cards with an IBM minicomputer running AS/400. It also used paper tape, but not with the AS/400. Can anyone guess why? I'll give a hint: it is industry workflow related. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:39 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? My very first OSes were OS PCP and CP-67 back in 1969, but I did not do any serious OS/360 coding until around 1975. (I was coding for DOS/360 in the interim.) My recollection is that PGM= worked then more or less exactly as it does now. I don't recall about STEPLIB for sure -- I think then it was more or less as now -- but I am 99% sure than SYSLIB worked then more or less as now. You could IPL a standalone dump from cards or tape, but OS/360 PGM= never supported other than disk-based load libraries, AFAIR. To submit a job you put the JCL deck in the card reader and issued S RDR specifying the address of the card reader (generally 00C). There was no job entry system. You started readers and you started writers. I *think* a program could if it wished read directly from cards or write directly to punch or print, but generally you did not do so. Some programs had to: the 1404 was a combination card reader and line printer (believe it or not). Organizations punched account numbers into cards and then used the 1404 to read the account number and print an invoice on the card. The cards were then mailed to customers, and when they returned their checks, the card was used as a processing document. The 1404 supported double-wide cards -- two 80-column cards joined at a short edge with a perforated strip. The customer kept one card and returned the other. https://clicktime.symantec.com/34VkC8GiwhSg1NHH4aLgz746xn?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bitsavers.org%2Fpdf%2Fibm%2F1401%2FG24-1446-0_1404_printer.pdf talks about 1401 attachment but I remember that Blue Cross of N. Calif. had one attached to a 360/50. Used for billing as I describe above. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 9:01 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? On Mar 31, 2022, at 09:54:38, Schmitt, Michael wrote: > How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know. > How did "EXEC PGM=..." originally work, back when punched cards were used? I suspect SYSIN, but neither SYSLIB nor STEPLIB. -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
My very first OSes were OS PCP and CP-67 back in 1969, but I did not do any serious OS/360 coding until around 1975. (I was coding for DOS/360 in the interim.) My recollection is that PGM= worked then more or less exactly as it does now. I don't recall about STEPLIB for sure -- I think then it was more or less as now -- but I am 99% sure than SYSLIB worked then more or less as now. You could IPL a standalone dump from cards or tape, but OS/360 PGM= never supported other than disk-based load libraries, AFAIR. To submit a job you put the JCL deck in the card reader and issued S RDR specifying the address of the card reader (generally 00C). There was no job entry system. You started readers and you started writers. I *think* a program could if it wished read directly from cards or write directly to punch or print, but generally you did not do so. Some programs had to: the 1404 was a combination card reader and line printer (believe it or not). Organizations punched account numbers into cards and then used the 1404 to read the account number and print an invoice on the card. The cards were then mailed to customers, and when they returned their checks, the card was used as a processing document. The 1404 supported double-wide cards -- two 80-column cards joined at a short edge with a perforated strip. The customer kept one card and returned the other. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/1401/G24-1446-0_1404_printer.pdf talks about 1401 attachment but I remember that Blue Cross of N. Calif. had one attached to a 360/50. Used for billing as I describe above. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 9:01 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? On Mar 31, 2022, at 09:54:38, Schmitt, Michael wrote: > How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know. > How did "EXEC PGM=..." originally work, back when punched cards were used? I suspect SYSIN, but neither SYSLIB nor STEPLIB. -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
"IBM Mainframe Assembler List" wrote on 03/31/2022 12:01:21 PM: > On Mar 31, 2022, at 09:54:38, Schmitt, Michael wrote: > > How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards > were used? I don't really know. > > > How did "EXEC PGM=..." originally work, back when punched cards were used? > > I suspect SYSIN, but neither SYSLIB nor STEPLIB. LOAD-n-GO -- executable created in memory and discarded after execution. Sincerely, Dave Clark -- int.ext: 91078 direct: (937) 531-6378 home: (937) 751-3300 Winsupply Group Services 3110 Kettering Boulevard Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA (937) 294-5331 * This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. *
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
On Mar 31, 2022, at 09:54:38, Schmitt, Michael wrote: > How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I > don't really know. > How did "EXEC PGM=..." originally work, back when punched cards were used? I suspect SYSIN, but neither SYSLIB nor STEPLIB. -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
I have done a LOT of assemblies from trays of cards. In DOS/360, in 1970, when I did so, COPY libraries were always on disk. This was even before spooling in DOS, so the assembler literally read from the card reader (well, called an access method that read card-by-card from the card reader). There was a b@st@rd stepbrother of DOS called TOS (yes, the T stood for Tape) that had its SYSRES on tape, believe it or not. I guess its operation was a sight to behold, but I never used it personally and have no idea about its assembler mechanics. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:55 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know.
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
On Mar 31, 2022, at 09:46:06, Charles Mills wrote: > > What language translator supports COPY members on cards (or in any other > sequential medium, for that matter)? > You didn't see the announcement for the new model card reader? -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
How did the assembler originally work, back when punched cards were used? I don't really know. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:46 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? What language translator supports COPY members on cards (or in any other sequential medium, for that matter)? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:29 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? A stack of file pointers doesn't work when you're reading the copy files from punched cards. 😉
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
What language translator supports COPY members on cards (or in any other sequential medium, for that matter)? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Schmitt, Michael Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:29 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? A stack of file pointers doesn't work when you're reading the copy files from punched cards. 😉
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
A stack of file pointers doesn't work when you're reading the copy files from punched cards. 😉 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 9:54 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files? On Mar 31, 2022, at 08:34:06, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > > but, in general, when processing COPY instructions (or INCLUDE files, in > other languages), > you don't need such file positioning functions, because you can easily keep > files open > while processing other files which contain the COPY books or include files > and then > return to the original file. You only need to manage a table (or stack) of > file pointers and > return to the previous file pointer in the stack, when you reach the end of > the file > of your "current" include file. > I did exactly that in a Pascal compiler, to the bewilderment of co-workers familiar with the Assembler technique. I believe the Assembler design was motivated by antiquated storage constraints or performance impact of numerous OPENs. -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
Ref: Your note of Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:45:00 -0600 gil writes: > What does HLASM in Linux for z do? I wouldn't expect NOTE and > POINT. On Linux, HLASM uses an interface module which maps the MVS supervisor and access method services which it uses to equivalent C library function calls (using the 32-bit compatibility libraries). When nested copy or macro files are being processed, each file is kept open independently, unlike when reading SYSLIB on MVS, which can only maintain one position at a time. Jonathan Scott, HLASM IBM Hursley, UK
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
On Mar 31, 2022, at 08:34:06, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > > but, in general, when processing COPY instructions (or INCLUDE files, in > other languages), > you don't need such file positioning functions, because you can easily keep > files open > while processing other files which contain the COPY books or include files > and then > return to the original file. You only need to manage a table (or stack) of > file pointers and > return to the previous file pointer in the stack, when you reach the end of > the file > of your "current" include file. > I did exactly that in a Pascal compiler, to the bewilderment of co-workers familiar with the Assembler technique. I believe the Assembler design was motivated by antiquated storage constraints or performance impact of numerous OPENs. -- gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
On Mar 31, 2022, at 08:01:03, Jonathan Scott wrote: > > There was a problem with NOTE/POINT for large UNIX files in > SYSLIB which was fixed by access method APAR OA59500 in 2020: > https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA59500 > > There were also earlier unrelated problems with UNIX files in > SYSLIB such as an abend S112 which was triggered by access > method security changes for APAR OA56487 and fixed by APAR > OA58404. > Thanks. IIRC, both those were my APARs. The former was most easily demonstrated with BLKSIZE=80. The latter was a storage key mixup. What does HLASM in Linux for z do? I wouldn't expect NOTE and POINT. A thread in IBM-MAIN concerns problems with ISPF Browse and large ASCII UNIX files; I suspected a POINT problem -- Thanks again, gil
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
I cannot comment on the question concerning NOTE, POINT, ftell() and fseek(), but, in general, when processing COPY instructions (or INCLUDE files, in other languages), you don't need such file positioning functions, because you can easily keep files open while processing other files which contain the COPY books or include files and then return to the original file. You only need to manage a table (or stack) of file pointers and return to the previous file pointer in the stack, when you reach the end of the file of your "current" include file. I've done this recently, when I processed include files coming from different CA-librarian master files, this way implementing a search chain on CA-librarian include statements, which CA-librarian does not provide ... CA-librarian requires instead, that all include files come from one single master file. I support up to 9 CA-Librarian master files, but there are much more members which can be open simultanously (the include nesting level may be much deeper than 9). This was CA-Librarian on VSE, BTW; but it should work much the same way on MVS. Kind regards Bernd Am 31.03.2022 um 14:13 schrieb Paul Gilmartin: If SYSLIB contains UNIX directories and my program contains nested COPY instructions, does HLASM use NOTE and POINT to return to the point of the outer copy member? I know it took a couple APARs to get this finally working. Was the fix ini BPAM, or did HLASM resort to ftell() and fseek()? Or did it resort to an enormous buffer making POINT unnecessary?
Re: Does HLASM use NOTE and POINT on UNIX files?
There was a problem with NOTE/POINT for large UNIX files in SYSLIB which was fixed by access method APAR OA59500 in 2020: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA59500 There were also earlier unrelated problems with UNIX files in SYSLIB such as an abend S112 which was triggered by access method security changes for APAR OA56487 and fixed by APAR OA58404. gil writes: > If SYSLIB contains UNIX directories and my program contains > nested COPY instructions, does HLASM use NOTE and POINT > to return to the point of the outer copy member? > > I know it took a couple APARs to get this finally working. > Was the fix ini BPAM, or did HLASM resort to ftell() and > fseek()? Or did it resort to an enormous buffer making > POINT unnecessary? Jonathan Scott, HLASM IBM Hursley, UK
