Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-05 Thread Peter Relson
The long-displacement facility has been part of the z/OS architecture level set 
since z/OS 2.1 (including the "high performance" variant).

Mark B wrote:

If you need to test a facility bit in the range of 0-31 then use the list of 
bits stored by the STORE FACILITY LIST instruction, which should have been 
placed in some common location by the OS you're running on, typically at 
location x'C8'.  If you need to test a facility bit >=32 *and* you might 
possibly be running on a pre-z9 machine(!) then first test bit 7 of the result 
stored by STORE FACILITY LIST to see if STFLE is available, and if it is then 
issue the STFLE instruction (if the output isn't already available somewhere) 
and test the bit from the list of bits stored.


For z/OS, the IPL-time output is "already available somewhere".

If you are interested in the IPL-time state of facility bits (which in almost 
all cases is what you would care about), as opposed to the state "now":

  *   For any bit in the first 256, you can look at the area located by x'C8' 
(FLCFACL/FLCFACLE in IHAPSA, or FlceFactilitiesList/FlceFacilitiesList1 in 
IHAPSAE).
  *   For any bit at all you can look at the area mapped by IHAFACL and pointed 
to by ECVTFACL (you can also use IHAFACL to look at the PSA area, with a little 
manipulation to account for the header of the area pointed to by ECVTFACL)

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-05 Thread Martin Trübner

>> IHAFACL

uops - I spoke too soon

Am 04.03.22 um 19:44 schrieb Philippe Leite:

Macro IHAFACL

Regards,

Philippe Leite
LAB Services - IBM


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-05 Thread Martin Trübner

and for the VSE people around

z/VSE stores facility indications beginning at V=R location 200 (C8 hex), so 
you don't have to issue these instructions yourself.)

and to IBM people supporting this:

wouldn't it be nice to have a copy book such that you can simply code:

   TM   my_feature_of_interest,L'my_feature_of_interestis my fav feature 
installed

as it is with the copy-book for ADATA

Martin

Am 04.03.22 um 19:08 schrieb Dan Greiner:

The presence of the facility is indicated facility indication bit 18 (facility 
installed) and bit 19 (facility installed in hardware) as stored by the STFL 
and STFLE instructions. (z/OS programmers take note: z/OS stores facility 
indications beginning at V=R location 200 (C8 hex), so you don't have to issue 
these instructions yourself.)


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Ed Jaffe

On 3/4/2022 12:38 PM, Charles Mills wrote:

https://www-03.ibm.com/services/supline/products/ExtendedSupport/SystemZ_EOS.pdf
 would seem to support my assertion that V2R2 is still in extended support, 
until September 2023.


Haha! We don't count the three-year service extensions. We code to 
announced EOS dates only.


By that reckoning:

1. z/OS 2.2 went EOS in September 2020.
2. z/OS 2.3 will go EOS in September 2022.
3. z/OS 2.4 will go EOS in September 2024.
4. z/OS 2.5 will go EOS in September 2026.


--
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Edward E. Jaffe
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El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Charles Mills
https://www-03.ibm.com/services/supline/products/ExtendedSupport/SystemZ_EOS.pdf
 would seem to support my assertion that V2R2 is still in extended support, 
until September 2023.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On 
Behalf Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 12:28 PM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

On 3/4/2022 11:24 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
>
> ... My rule is to support the
> oldest version of z/OS still in extended support, which I believe is
> currently V2R2, and the oldest hardware that it supports, which is the z10.

The oldest supported OS is currently z/OS 2.3 and the oldest hardware it 
supports is z12.


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Ed Jaffe

On 3/4/2022 11:24 AM, Charles Mills wrote:


... My rule is to support the
oldest version of z/OS still in extended support, which I believe is
currently V2R2, and the oldest hardware that it supports, which is the z10.


The oldest supported OS is currently z/OS 2.3 and the oldest hardware it 
supports is z12.



--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Charles Mills
Others have well-addressed your central questions. Let me just address this
one thing:

> if developing software for distribution, 
> is it best to avoid using the "newer," fancier instructions

I have been developing almost exclusively "product" software for
distribution to multiple, unknown at the time of development, customers --
for about 50 years, most of it on the 360 and its successors. I used to
avoid the "new" instructions (whatever "new" meant at the time). It took me
a long time to embrace the S/370 enhancements to the original instruction
set. I thought "what if some prospect has an older machine?" I'd hate to
lose even one deal.

Well, through years of commercial software product development and
management I have learned the following: there may be shops out there with
ancient hardware. But they are 100% shops that are "getting off the
mainframe." (Some may be in the eighth year of a three-year project to get
off the mainframe, but that is a different topic, and it has already been
hashed to death here.) So they are not your prospects. They are not going to
buy your product even if it DOES run on a z900 or whatever. 

So there is no need to eschew "new" instructions. My rule is to support the
oldest version of z/OS still in extended support, which I believe is
currently V2R2, and the oldest hardware that it supports, which is the z10.
My theory is that any customer that considers the mainframe vital enough to
warrant an investment in the product is not running an unsupported OS.

So I would use decimal floating point and extended immediates, but eschew
vector packed decimal.

If you have *extremely* performance-sensitive portions of your code then
dual-pathing may be appropriate.

FWIW, most of my current development is in C++, and the great thing about
compiled languages is that you can just "turn the dial" on the supported
hardware. Some customer wants maximal performance and is willing to pay you
for it? Do a custom build for them with ARCH(13). Some customer surfaces who
is still running a z9? Do a custom build with ARCH(7).

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Dave Clark
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 9:01 AM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

"IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on 
03/03/2022 05:22:52 PM:
> Not counting any branch following the determination, I had 
> previously managed to trim this down to three instructions. For 
> example, to determine if a prospective insertion crosses a 4 K-byte 
boundary:
> 1.   LAY   S,-1(L,P)  where "S" is a scratch register.
> 2.   XR  S,P  determine the difference
> 3.   NILF  S,X'F000'  Turn off insignificant bits.


The second operand of the first instruction in this sequence 
caught my eye -- having not seen negative displacements -- before but 
immediately appreciating its applications.  So, I first thought I would 
ask what are the benefits of doing it that way as opposed to the following 
more traditional approach (other than the obvious of simply "one less 
instruction")?

LAS,0(L,P)
AHI   S,-1


Secondly...  I missed the Y the first time and tried testing the 
following.  That, of course, generated a syntax error (invalid 
displacement).

LAS,-1(L,P)


So, I looked at the original email again and did some research 
into the LAY instruction.  That is when I read about the Long Displacement 
Facility (LDF) having to be installed for this instruction to work 
(otherwise: operation exception).  So, other than just trying it, how 
would I determine if the box we are on (2818) has the LDF?  Further, if 
developing software for distribution, is it best to avoid using the 
"newer," fancier instructions and just stick with the more traditional 
approaches?


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Mark Boonie
> What is the macro to generate facility bit EQUs?

In TPF, it's IZARCH.    For the z/OS macro, I'd have to phone a friend.

Actually I just did a Google search and found IHAPSAE, which itself points you 
to IHAFACL.

- mb



Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Philippe Leite
Macro IHAFACL

Regards,

Philippe Leite
LAB Services - IBM


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
What is the macro to generate facility bit EQUs?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf 
of Mark Boonie [boo...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 1:12 PM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

> I went back and checked:
>
>
> o Long-displacement facility was first documented in SA22-7832-02
>
> o STFLE was first documented in SA22-7832-04

If you need to test a facility bit in the range of 0-31 then use the list of 
bits stored by the STORE FACILITY LIST instruction, which should have been 
placed in some common location by the OS you're running on, typically at 
location x'C8'.  If you need to test a facility bit >=32 *and* you might 
possibly be running on a pre-z9 machine(!) then first test bit 7 of the result 
stored by STORE FACILITY LIST to see if STFLE is available, and if it is then 
issue the STFLE instruction (if the output isn't already available somewhere) 
and test the bit from the list of bits stored.  (More logic is required to 
ensure the bit you're checking is actually stored by STFLE; refer to Principles 
of Operation for details.)

- mb

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List  On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 12:53 PM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

On 3/4/2022 9:31 AM, Dave Clark wrote:
> "IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on
> 03/04/2022 12:19:51 PM:
>> IIRC, STFLE is newer than the Long Displacement Facility. LOL
>  It wouldn't appear so.  STFLE is facility 7 and LDF is facility 18.


I went back and checked:


o Long-displacement facility was first documented in SA22-7832-02

o STFLE was first documented in SA22-7832-04


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1DL9l0sIek3RCGGrMkPCIedAfeUjyQTMmykcYxTTsZ6gfr01W05Ih2_VyC_UUbcy5XKL1CaHxPMVynzWg4_jYc795y5rmZHh7bxX32zvVc5tfBuyYQWP6ZR39WI2TI5fUQ5nadljaJd-dJkOIWyjwWpy-sbWdurenQa-Omhecksk4Jy4rzNPtpQSI0JBJJ39zVQjmvjXnl2k4KVCtxWd_u6IcUYyV8_sn4xudhf3DGtEkfXG7Ks-D3UqMzKEuteu7BGDAlA8tuxnAlf4Zg8jXln1DKyf6wu5zubFCM9pP_eqpDhnvRHY2J9_m96hCCOGX-R6af4kGEPrijPEjPnUNGedAl_IDJEvX62yaKnPzdfhxDo9X8UDhNfp4Vj4b62FjXjwa4aSO8u3FusTCZJvZ-SUv4eJPMCa0L7TQllWykwRUbAxbA5M_goXXlxs5rHwq/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%2F



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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Mark Boonie
> I went back and checked:
> 
> 
> o Long-displacement facility was first documented in SA22-7832-02
> 
> o STFLE was first documented in SA22-7832-04

If you need to test a facility bit in the range of 0-31 then use the list of 
bits stored by the STORE FACILITY LIST instruction, which should have been 
placed in some common location by the OS you're running on, typically at 
location x'C8'.  If you need to test a facility bit >=32 *and* you might 
possibly be running on a pre-z9 machine(!) then first test bit 7 of the result 
stored by STORE FACILITY LIST to see if STFLE is available, and if it is then 
issue the STFLE instruction (if the output isn't already available somewhere) 
and test the bit from the list of bits stored.  (More logic is required to 
ensure the bit you're checking is actually stored by STFLE; refer to Principles 
of Operation for details.)

- mb

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List  On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 12:53 PM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

On 3/4/2022 9:31 AM, Dave Clark wrote:
> "IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on
> 03/04/2022 12:19:51 PM:
>> IIRC, STFLE is newer than the Long Displacement Facility. LOL
>  It wouldn't appear so.  STFLE is facility 7 and LDF is facility 18.


I went back and checked:


o Long-displacement facility was first documented in SA22-7832-02

o STFLE was first documented in SA22-7832-04


-- 
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ 



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Dan Greiner
The long-displacement facility wasn't in the first z/Architecture machine, but 
it followed soon thereafter. The first implementation was done in firmware — 
primarily to allow IBM internal testing of new software. It was implemented in 
hardware in any z/Architecture machine shipped after June 2003.

The presence of the facility is indicated facility indication bit 18 (facility 
installed) and bit 19 (facility installed in hardware) as stored by the STFL 
and STFLE instructions. (z/OS programmers take note: z/OS stores facility 
indications beginning at V=R location 200 (C8 hex), so you don't have to issue 
these instructions yourself.) 

Descriptions of newer facilities added to the architecture can be found in 
Chapter 1 of the PoO. Additional information as to the operation of the 
long-displacement facility can be found in the discussion of operand-address 
generation in Chapter 5, programming note 5 on p. 7-9, and elsewhere.


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Ed Jaffe

On 3/4/2022 9:31 AM, Dave Clark wrote:

"IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on
03/04/2022 12:19:51 PM:

IIRC, STFLE is newer than the Long Displacement Facility. LOL

 It wouldn't appear so.  STFLE is facility 7 and LDF is facility 18.



I went back and checked:


o Long-displacement facility was first documented in SA22-7832-02

o STFLE was first documented in SA22-7832-04


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
If I have to support really old boxen then I encapsulate alternate code 
sequences in a macro.  That approach does require some configuration control if 
a shop has a mix of old and new. I don't expect to see anybody running 
production on a box too old to have long displacements.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf 
of Dave Clark [dlcl...@winsupplyinc.com]
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 12:01 PM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

"IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on
03/03/2022 05:22:52 PM:
> Not counting any branch following the determination, I had
> previously managed to trim this down to three instructions. For
> example, to determine if a prospective insertion crosses a 4 K-byte
boundary:
> 1.   LAY   S,-1(L,P)  where "S" is a scratch register.
> 2.   XR  S,P  determine the difference
> 3.   NILF  S,X'F000'  Turn off insignificant bits.


The second operand of the first instruction in this sequence
caught my eye -- having not seen negative displacements -- before but
immediately appreciating its applications.  So, I first thought I would
ask what are the benefits of doing it that way as opposed to the following
more traditional approach (other than the obvious of simply "one less
instruction")?

LAS,0(L,P)
AHI   S,-1


Secondly...  I missed the Y the first time and tried testing the
following.  That, of course, generated a syntax error (invalid
displacement).

LAS,-1(L,P)


So, I looked at the original email again and did some research
into the LAY instruction.  That is when I read about the Long Displacement
Facility (LDF) having to be installed for this instruction to work
(otherwise: operation exception).  So, other than just trying it, how
would I determine if the box we are on (2818) has the LDF?  Further, if
developing software for distribution, is it best to avoid using the
"newer," fancier instructions and just stick with the more traditional
approaches?


Sincerely,

Dave Clark
--
int.ext: 91078
direct: (937) 531-6378
home: (937) 751-3300

Winsupply Group Services
3110 Kettering Boulevard
Dayton, Ohio  45439  USA
(937) 294-5331




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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Philippe Leite
There is another way to test facility bits: 
We can use field FLCFACL on PSA+x'C8'.

Regards,

Philippe Leite
LAB Services - IBM


Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Ed Jaffe

On 3/4/2022 9:31 AM, Dave Clark wrote:

It wouldn't appear so. STFLE is facility 7 and LDF is facility 18.


Thanks for the clarification.

For the record, I would never, Ever, EVER test the long-displacement 
facility bit and code two different paths in my code.


Doing so would be ridiculous...



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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Dave Clark
"IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on 
03/04/2022 12:19:51 PM:
> IIRC, STFLE is newer than the Long Displacement Facility. LOL


It wouldn't appear so.  STFLE is facility 7 and LDF is facility 
18.


Sincerely,

Dave Clark
-- 
int.ext: 91078
direct: (937) 531-6378
home: (937) 751-3300

Winsupply Group Services
3110 Kettering Boulevard
Dayton, Ohio  45439  USA
(937) 294-5331




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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Ed Jaffe

IIRC, STFLE is newer than the Long Displacement Facility. LOL

On 3/4/2022 9:16 AM, Philippe Leite wrote:





--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Philippe Leite





Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Dave Clark
"IBM Mainframe Assembler List"  wrote on 
03/04/2022 12:06:26 PM:
> Every other box (z800, z900 GA2, and beyond) 
> has had this feature standard. There is no reasonable
> rationale for not using this 22 year-old facility.


Thank you.


Sincerely,

Dave Clark
-- 
int.ext: 91078
direct: (937) 531-6378
home: (937) 751-3300

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(937) 294-5331




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Re: Long Displacement Facility (was: Fun with RXSBG)

2022-03-04 Thread Ed Jaffe

On 3/4/2022 9:01 AM, Dave Clark wrote:


 So, I looked at the original email again and did some research
into the LAY instruction.  That is when I read about the Long Displacement
Facility (LDF) having to be installed for this instruction to work
(otherwise: operation exception).  So, other than just trying it, how
would I determine if the box we are on (2818) has the LDF?  Further, if
developing software for distribution, is it best to avoid using the
"newer," fancier instructions and just stick with the more traditional
approaches?


Every IBM Z box ever produced has the long-displacement facility. The 
original z900 (2064) from 1999 got it as an RPQ at GA2 and thus it is 
implemented via millicode. Every other box (z800, z900 GA2, and beyond) 
has had this feature standard. There is no reasonable rationale for not 
using this 22 year-old facility.



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