Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
The network terminator installed by the Telco in Romania works the same way: it has two "analog" outputs and two digital (S0) outputs. I've also got a full TDM400 card with 3 FXS and one FXO, but I gave them up gladly for a proper ISDN card (I'm using a Diva Eicon Server) - and I don't do billing. Sound quality is perfect, there's no echo and I can use all the functions of the ISDN card, like the ability to use multiple MSN's, send an proper "busy" signal at will, get two calls on the same number at the same time. And now I've got two unused FXS ports in my Asterisk. Stefano Corsi wrote: I must clarify my original message. Maybe confusion is due to my poor english. So I'll make a list of statements: - Each ISDN line in Italy can be splitted in two analog lines - You can use those analog lines as normal analog lines - I have already invested in analog hardware (my fault of course) for both FSX and FXO - ISDN hardware installed by the telco can, in Italy, be programmed to send a "billing pulse". - I guess this billing pulse is sent on each of the two analog lines in which a single ISDN line can be splitted (so there's no risk, I guess, for double billing). - I'm considering if there's a small chance for me to avoid buying additional hardware (ISDN cards or gateways) and have an accurate billing using those analog lines resulting from splitting an ISDN line. - To get an accurate billing, I'm wandering if it's possibile to use "billing pulse" provided by those analog lines. - I have full specifications of the "billing pulse" provided: frequency 12 kHz ± 1% level .. 200 mVrms on 200 distortion... < 5% pulse duration .125 ± 25 ms pause duration > 180 ms period ...> 300 ms Do you think it's worth considering it? Rgds Stefano > Bill them both. We are talking about mere BRI's, right:-) Good catch, > David. As others noted, billing pulse really applies to analogue lines > only, and ISDN providers should always send status. > > Yuan Liu Thanks, Yuan But my confusion came from the original post stating the use of ISDN circuits for this implementation. Id ISDN is in fact the circuit of choice for this app, I agree why wouldn't he simply use the cause codes for billing purposes. We have a lot of experience in telecommunications billing, and have always found cause codes to be more than sufficient even for weird tiers, and bizarre rounding functions. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
Hi Stefano, I have a question, how would you go about using the billing pulses to generate an invoice/bill. Also can you provide an ascii drawing of the layout of the equipment as you intend to use it, they say a picture is worth a thousand words:) db On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 15:13 +0100, Stefano Corsi wrote: > I must clarify my original message. Maybe > confusion is due to my poor english. So I'll make a list of statements: > > - Each ISDN line in Italy can be splitted in two analog lines > - You can use those analog lines as normal analog lines > - I have already invested in analog hardware (my > fault of course) for both FSX and FXO > - ISDN hardware installed by the telco can, in > Italy, be programmed to send a "billing pulse". > - I guess this billing pulse is sent on each of > the two analog lines in which a single ISDN line > can be splitted (so there's no risk, I guess, for double billing). > - I'm considering if there's a small chance for > me to avoid buying additional hardware (ISDN > cards or gateways) and have an accurate billing > using those analog lines resulting from splitting an ISDN line. > - To get an accurate billing, I'm wandering if > it's possibile to use "billing pulse" provided by those analog lines. > - I have full specifications of the "billing pulse" provided: > > frequency > > 12 kHz ± 1% > level > .. > 200 mVrms on 200 > distortion... > < 5% > pulse duration > .125 ± 25 ms > pause duration > > 180 ms > period > ...> 300 > ms > > Do you think it's worth considering it? > > Rgds > Stefano > > > > Bill them both. We are talking about mere BRI's, right:-) Good catch, > > > David. As others noted, billing pulse really applies to analogue lines > > > only, and ISDN providers should always send status. > > > > > > Yuan Liu > > > >Thanks, Yuan > > > > > >But my confusion came from the original post stating the use of ISDN > >circuits for this implementation. Id ISDN is in fact the circuit of > >choice for this app, I agree why wouldn't he simply use the cause codes > >for billing purposes. We have a lot of experience in telecommunications > >billing, and have always found cause codes to be more than sufficient > >even for weird tiers, and bizarre rounding functions. > > ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
There are two types of ISDN line, Primary Rate Access (PRI) and Basic Rate Access (BRI). PRI has 30 (+ 1) channels, BRI has 2 (+1) channels. You are talking about BRI which consists of two 64 kbit/s data channels and 1 signalling channel. In telephony, the two data channels are decoded and used as two voice channels. At the end of the decoding process and after passing through some interfacing hardware the voice channels end up in an analogue device such as a telephone set so that we humans can hear it. The FXS hardware you invested in can be used for your analogue extensions. The FXO hardware is used to interface with analogue telco lines so if you want ISDN telco lines you will have to invest in BRI interface cards. (Google Asterisk ISDN BRI) You then ask the telco to include Advice of Charge (AOC) in your ISDN setup. The AOC then is included somewhere in the Asterisk CDR, but I don't have direct experience of this. You can then get appropriate software to issue bills to telephone users. This is as far as I know and have personal experience of. If anyone can add to it it will be appreciated. George - Original Message - From: "Stefano Corsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses I must clarify my original message. Maybe confusion is due to my poor english. So I'll make a list of statements: - Each ISDN line in Italy can be splitted in two analog lines - You can use those analog lines as normal analog lines - I have already invested in analog hardware (my fault of course) for both FSX and FXO - ISDN hardware installed by the telco can, in Italy, be programmed to send a "billing pulse". - I guess this billing pulse is sent on each of the two analog lines in which a single ISDN line can be splitted (so there's no risk, I guess, for double billing). - I'm considering if there's a small chance for me to avoid buying additional hardware (ISDN cards or gateways) and have an accurate billing using those analog lines resulting from splitting an ISDN line. - To get an accurate billing, I'm wandering if it's possibile to use "billing pulse" provided by those analog lines. - I have full specifications of the "billing pulse" provided: frequency 12 kHz ± 1% level .. 200 mVrms on 200 distortion... < 5% pulse duration .125 ± 25 ms pause duration > 180 ms period ...> 300 ms Do you think it's worth considering it? Rgds Stefano > Bill them both. We are talking about mere BRI's, right:-) Good catch, > David. As others noted, billing pulse really applies to analogue lines > only, and ISDN providers should always send status. > > Yuan Liu Thanks, Yuan But my confusion came from the original post stating the use of ISDN circuits for this implementation. Id ISDN is in fact the circuit of choice for this app, I agree why wouldn't he simply use the cause codes for billing purposes. We have a lot of experience in telecommunications billing, and have always found cause codes to be more than sufficient even for weird tiers, and bizarre rounding functions. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 - Release Date: 2/7/2007 3:33 PM ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
I must clarify my original message. Maybe confusion is due to my poor english. So I'll make a list of statements: - Each ISDN line in Italy can be splitted in two analog lines - You can use those analog lines as normal analog lines - I have already invested in analog hardware (my fault of course) for both FSX and FXO - ISDN hardware installed by the telco can, in Italy, be programmed to send a "billing pulse". - I guess this billing pulse is sent on each of the two analog lines in which a single ISDN line can be splitted (so there's no risk, I guess, for double billing). - I'm considering if there's a small chance for me to avoid buying additional hardware (ISDN cards or gateways) and have an accurate billing using those analog lines resulting from splitting an ISDN line. - To get an accurate billing, I'm wandering if it's possibile to use "billing pulse" provided by those analog lines. - I have full specifications of the "billing pulse" provided: frequency 12 kHz ± 1% level .. 200 mVrms on 200 distortion... < 5% pulse duration .125 ± 25 ms pause duration > 180 ms period ...> 300 ms Do you think it's worth considering it? Rgds Stefano > Bill them both. We are talking about mere BRI's, right:-) Good catch, > David. As others noted, billing pulse really applies to analogue lines > only, and ISDN providers should always send status. > > Yuan Liu Thanks, Yuan But my confusion came from the original post stating the use of ISDN circuits for this implementation. Id ISDN is in fact the circuit of choice for this app, I agree why wouldn't he simply use the cause codes for billing purposes. We have a lot of experience in telecommunications billing, and have always found cause codes to be more than sufficient even for weird tiers, and bizarre rounding functions. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 14:49 -0800, Yuan LIU wrote: > >From: David Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:24:04 -0500 > > > >On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 10:14 -0800, Yuan LIU wrote: > > > From: Jorge Mendoza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse. > > > >Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need > > > >the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system. > > > > > > > >Jorge Mendoza > > > > > > > >Stefano Corsi wrote: > > > >>Hello, > > > >> > > > >>I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to > > > >>generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the > > > >>pricebook). The pulse has these figures: > > > > > > > > > Whatever reason, if telco provides them, there's a good chance > > > that some ISDN interface cards can use them. (Just googled to confirm > > > that some non-Digium cards can be used in Asterisk.) This doesn't > > > mean that Asterisk can use them. So you may need significant > > > programming to get going. > > > > > > If they are truly analogue pulses, it could be cheaper to produce a > > > little dedicated circuit to feed an AGI or something. > > > > > > Yuan Liu > > > ... > >How would you be able to determine which call was being billed for if > >the pulse is sent down the wire on an ISDN circuit with multiple > >channels in use? > > > >db > > Bill them both. We are talking about mere BRI's, right:-) Good catch, > David. As others noted, billing pulse really applies to analogue lines > only, and ISDN providers should always send status. > > Yuan Liu > > > ___ > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Thanks, Yuan But my confusion came from the original post stating the use of ISDN circuits for this implementation. Id ISDN is in fact the circuit of choice for this app, I agree why wouldn't he simply use the cause codes for billing purposes. We have a lot of experience in telecommunications billing, and have always found cause codes to be more than sufficient even for weird tiers, and bizarre rounding functions. db ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
From: David Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:24:04 -0500 On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 10:14 -0800, Yuan LIU wrote: > From: Jorge Mendoza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse. > >Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need > >the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system. > > > >Jorge Mendoza > > > >Stefano Corsi wrote: > >>Hello, > >> > >>I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to > >>generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the > >>pricebook). The pulse has these figures: > > > Whatever reason, if telco provides them, there's a good chance > that some ISDN interface cards can use them. (Just googled to confirm > that some non-Digium cards can be used in Asterisk.) This doesn't > mean that Asterisk can use them. So you may need significant > programming to get going. > > If they are truly analogue pulses, it could be cheaper to produce a > little dedicated circuit to feed an AGI or something. > > Yuan Liu > ... How would you be able to determine which call was being billed for if the pulse is sent down the wire on an ISDN circuit with multiple channels in use? db Bill them both. We are talking about mere BRI's, right:-) Good catch, David. As others noted, billing pulse really applies to analogue lines only, and ISDN providers should always send status. Yuan Liu ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 21:00 +0100, George Camilleri wrote: > Hi > > "Billing Pulses" only apply to analogue lines. You need special hardware in > the PBX interface to detect them and pass them on to the Billing software. > To my knowlege there is no Asterisk compatible hardware that does this. ISDN has AOC (advice of charge) and does not require special hardware. Iirc a while back there was some development of AOC support for Asterisk but I am not aware of the current status. Regards, Patrick ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 10:14 -0800, Yuan LIU wrote: > From: Jorge Mendoza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse. > >Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need > >the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system. > > > >Jorge Mendoza > > > >Stefano Corsi wrote: > >>Hello, > >> > >>I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to > >>generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the > >>pricebook). The pulse has these figures: > > > Whatever reason, if telco provides them, there's a good chance > that some ISDN interface cards can use them. (Just googled to confirm > that some non-Digium cards can be used in Asterisk.) This doesn't > mean that Asterisk can use them. So you may need significant > programming to get going. > > If they are truly analogue pulses, it could be cheaper to produce a > little dedicated circuit to feed an AGI or something. > > > Yuan Liu > > >>frequency > >> > >>12 kHz ?1% > >> > >>level > >>.. > >>200 mVrms on 200 > >> > >>distortion... > >> > >>< 5% > >>pulse duration > >>.125 ? > >>25 ms > >>pause duration > >>> > >>180 ms > >>period > >>...> > >>300 ms > >> > >>Does someone know if these values can be used somehow to get an > >>accurate billing using asterisk with these lines? Could be a matter > >>of configuration or programming? > >> > >>Thanks > >>Stefano > > ___ > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users How would you be able to determine which call was being billed for if the pulse is sent down the wire on an ISDN circuit with multiple channels in use? db ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
Hi "Billing Pulses" only apply to analogue lines. You need special hardware in the PBX interface to detect them and pass them on to the Billing software. To my knowlege there is no Asterisk compatible hardware that does this. George - Original Message - From: "Stefano Corsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses Hello, I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the pricebook). The pulse has these figures: frequency 12 kHz ± 1% level .. 200 mVrms on 200 distortion... < 5% pulse duration .125 ± 25 ms pause duration > 180 ms period ...> 300 ms Does someone know if these values can be used somehow to get an accurate billing using asterisk with these lines? Could be a matter of configuration or programming? Thanks Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007 5:52 PM ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
From: Jorge Mendoza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse.>Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need >the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system.>>Jorge Mendoza>>Stefano Corsi wrote:>>Hello,I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to >>generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the >>pricebook). The pulse has these figures: Whatever reason, if telco provides them, there's a good chance that some ISDN interface cards can use them. (Just googled to confirm that some non-Digium cards can be used in Asterisk.) This doesn't mean that Asterisk can use them. So you may need significant programming to get going. If they are truly analogue pulses, it could be cheaper to produce a little dedicated circuit to feed an AGI or something. Yuan Liu >>frequency >> >>12 kHz ?1%level >>.. >>200 mVrms on 200distortion... >>< 5%>>pulse duration >>.125 ?>>25 ms>>pause duration >>> >>180 ms>>period >>...> >>300 msDoes someone know if these values can be used somehow to get an >>accurate billing using asterisk with these lines? Could be a matter >>of configuration or programming?Thanks>>Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
All digital lines (BRI or PRI) provides answer and release supervision. The drivers will send to * this information, and this information will be registered into the CDR automatically. You only need setup your billing system. As said before you do not need to intercept the billing pulse. Jorge Mendoza Stefano Corsi wrote: At 16.22 07/02/2007, you wrote: Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse. Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system. Yes, it's strange. But I find no mention on answer supervision in the NT1Plus manual (NT1Plus is the hardware device the Telco installs when you ask for an ISDN line). Where should I ask for answer supervision? The Telco? That sounds very difficult in Italy... they have no technical call centers. Almost only sales. But if the line should provide those "analog" billing pulses... do you think could be possible to intercept them? Rgds Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
At 16.22 07/02/2007, you wrote: Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse. Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system. Yes, it's strange. But I find no mention on answer supervision in the NT1Plus manual (NT1Plus is the hardware device the Telco installs when you ask for an ISDN line). Where should I ask for answer supervision? The Telco? That sounds very difficult in Italy... they have no technical call centers. Almost only sales. But if the line should provide those "analog" billing pulses... do you think could be possible to intercept them? Rgds Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Billing pulses
Funny that a digital line have a analogue pulse. Normally the billing pulse is used on payphones. IMO you only need the answer supervision to trigger your own billing system. Jorge Mendoza Stefano Corsi wrote: Hello, I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the pricebook). The pulse has these figures: frequency 12 kHz ± 1% level .. 200 mVrms on 200 distortion... < 5% pulse duration .125 ± 25 ms pause duration > 180 ms period ...> 300 ms Does someone know if these values can be used somehow to get an accurate billing using asterisk with these lines? Could be a matter of configuration or programming? Thanks Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] Billing pulses
Hello, I've discovered that in Italy ISDN lines can be programmed to generate a "billing pulse" every n seconds (it dipends from the pricebook). The pulse has these figures: frequency 12 kHz ± 1% level .. 200 mVrms on 200 distortion... < 5% pulse duration .125 ± 25 ms pause duration > 180 ms period ...> 300 ms Does someone know if these values can be used somehow to get an accurate billing using asterisk with these lines? Could be a matter of configuration or programming? Thanks Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
