Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds [so far off topic that it has become a singularity]
So far you always dodged the point, which is that you pay more for calling cell phones in Australia, if that's not the case say it, don't just say that YOU don't pay for YOUR cell phones. The fact is that the biggest portion of you phone bill goes towards calling cell phones in Australia, you have never denied this, and even if your case is different you might be an exception. For all the members of this list, this was not a contest of where cell phones are cheaper (although that's what it looks like) and which country is better. I was just trying to point out an interesting thing about marketing, someone was mentioning the idea of selling calling cards with units instead of minutes. I commented on that, that such a marketing technique doesn't really work in the states, and as an example I showed the charging model about the cell phones. Since we have now seen that the Australians are happy with their charging model, and the Americans with their (regardless of which one is cheaper), it shows that the cell phone companies have been doing a good job in marketing. But in my opinion neither marketing technique would work in the other country. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds [so far off topic that it hasbecome a singularity]
Who cares? MY cell phone is $0.00 per minute incoming AND outgoing... I can talk 24hrs a day to anyone in the United States or Canada, Wireless or landline, and my phone bill is going to be exactly the same every month. I'm sure there are good and bad cell phone plans in Australia AND in the UK. Why the pissing contest over one country being better/worse??? As far as not being able to control my cell phone bill because of incoming callers, isn't that what caller ID is for?? Not to mention that it IS still against the law to make telemarketing calls to cell phones in the US, though it's becoming harder to distinguish cell phone numbers from landline numbers, with number portability. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds [so far off topic that it has become a singularity]
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C F > Sent: Monday, 20 June 2005 12:38 PM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > > I showed you that your link to a mob called "cucumber" was > not helpful > > to you or anyone else. Their pricing is fure fiction as far as .au > > telco pricing is concerned. > > Really pure fiction? Mob? let see: > http://www.tel3advantage.com/rates.aspx?AgentNumber=036333&CID=124 > $.03 to regulare, and $.17 to mobile (more than 5 times as much) > > http://www.packet8.net/about/international.asp > again $.03 to regular, and $.23 cents to mobile more than 7 > times as much > > http://www.broadvoice.com/rateplans_international_li.html > $.02 to regular, and $.18 to mobile 9 times as much > > http://www.voicepulse.com/plans/InternationalRates.aspx > $.06 to regular and $.26 to mobile, that makes more than 4 > times as much. > > anyhow to show you that cucumber is not the most expensive one: > http://www22.verizon.com/ForYourHome/sas/sas_con_LongDescription.aspx > $1.30 to australia > here is one thats even better: > http://www22.verizon.com/ForYourHome/sas/sas_basicinternationa > lcallingcardrates.aspx > > Here is another Verizon rate: > http://www22.verizon.com/ForYourhome/voip/CallingRates.aspx > Don't ask me why the difference, but I promise you they don't > even know. Fantastic, but not a single .au telco among them... Your telcos may not get great rates taling to our mobiles, but so what? > > > > > > I already included the link where it showed it costs more > to call a > > > cell phone. As for the the 10 times figure I made a > mistake (since I > > > was still under the impression that it costs only $.039 to call > > > australia > > > landline) and make it 4+ times as much (7 cents to > landline and 30 > > > to cell, that makes; 30/7=4+2/7 times as much as to a landline). > > > > That's what happens when you pull figures out of the air. > > Really out of the air? Yep. > the interesting part here is that you > know better than me that a huge chunk of your monthly phone > bill (not your cell phone) goes towards phone calls made to > mobile phones, Really? I have already told you that calls from my land line to my mobiles are free, what part of that didn't you understand? > which is something that in the states doesn't > exist, and still you argue that it doesn't cost you, and you > divert this argument about what some company charges to > Australia. Huh? What are you taking about? > In an avarage month every American can tell you > EXACTLY how much they are GOING to pay for their cellphone > that month, and in most cases it is not a lot based on the > minutes used. Ditto for .au > However in places like Australia that you pay > for your cell phone when calling from your home phone, there > is no way of telling how much it is costing you since it > costs you sometimes as much as 9 times as much to call a cell phone. ** I pay _exactly_ $0.00 each month to call my mobiles regardless of the number of calls, however you would have to pay to call _my_ mobiles, its called preselection, and it's a feature of my telco. > > > > > > > > > > for the 5 mobiles that I own, (my family members) the calls > > > > between them and my land lines are free. > > > > > > > > > > You already mentioned that (see below) that is NOT the argument. > > > > > > > Because basic math teaches us that 2 negatives cancel each > other, and I told you that the same is available in the > states, so this argument is negated with the exact same > argument that I have, and that is that I don't have to pay to > ANY customer that is in the same network that I am (currently > SprintPCS) nor does he pay for the incoming. So far all you > have is only 5, and in the states I get about 30 Million > phone numbers that I can call for free UNLIMITED (besides for > nights and weekends that are completely free), so if you want > this is another one for me. > Kewl! Its tit-for-tat time :D > > > > > > Again, as the originator of the call I get to choose the > > > amount I spend. > > > > > > > > > Don't > > > > > you see how they succeeded in making you believe that > your cell > > > > > phone is cheaper? I told you that none Amercians might not > > > > > understand this. :) > >
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> I showed you that your link to a mob called "cucumber" was not helpful to > you or anyone else. Their pricing is fure fiction as far as .au telco > pricing is concerned. Really pure fiction? Mob? let see: http://www.tel3advantage.com/rates.aspx?AgentNumber=036333&CID=124 $.03 to regulare, and $.17 to mobile (more than 5 times as much) http://www.packet8.net/about/international.asp again $.03 to regular, and $.23 cents to mobile more than 7 times as much http://www.broadvoice.com/rateplans_international_li.html $.02 to regular, and $.18 to mobile 9 times as much http://www.voicepulse.com/plans/InternationalRates.aspx $.06 to regular and $.26 to mobile, that makes more than 4 times as much. anyhow to show you that cucumber is not the most expensive one: http://www22.verizon.com/ForYourHome/sas/sas_con_LongDescription.aspx $1.30 to australia here is one thats even better: http://www22.verizon.com/ForYourHome/sas/sas_basicinternationalcallingcardrates.aspx Here is another Verizon rate: http://www22.verizon.com/ForYourhome/voip/CallingRates.aspx Don't ask me why the difference, but I promise you they don't even know. > > > I already included the link where it showed > > it costs more to call a cell phone. As for the the 10 times > > figure I made a mistake (since I was still under the > > impression that it costs only $.039 to call australia > > landline) and make it 4+ times as much (7 cents to landline > > and 30 to cell, that makes; 30/7=4+2/7 times as much as to a > > landline). > > That's what happens when you pull figures out of the air. Really out of the air? the interesting part here is that you know better than me that a huge chunk of your monthly phone bill (not your cell phone) goes towards phone calls made to mobile phones, which is something that in the states doesn't exist, and still you argue that it doesn't cost you, and you divert this argument about what some company charges to Australia. In an avarage month every American can tell you EXACTLY how much they are GOING to pay for their cellphone that month, and in most cases it is not a lot based on the minutes used. However in places like Australia that you pay for your cell phone when calling from your home phone, there is no way of telling how much it is costing you since it costs you sometimes as much as 9 times as much to call a cell phone. > > > > > > for the 5 mobiles that I own, (my family members) the calls between > > > them and my land lines are free. > > > > > > > You already mentioned that (see below) that is NOT the argument. > > > Because basic math teaches us that 2 negatives cancel each other, and I told you that the same is available in the states, so this argument is negated with the exact same argument that I have, and that is that I don't have to pay to ANY customer that is in the same network that I am (currently SprintPCS) nor does he pay for the incoming. So far all you have is only 5, and in the states I get about 30 Million phone numbers that I can call for free UNLIMITED (besides for nights and weekends that are completely free), so if you want this is another one for me. > > > > Again, as the originator of the call I get to choose the > > amount I spend. > > > > > > > Don't > > > > you see how they succeeded in making you believe that your cell > > > > phone is cheaper? I told you that none Amercians might not > > > > understand this. :) > > > > > > Yeah, I see how _some_ americans don't get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > when I don't originate the call, however in .us if you get > > > > called, you > > > > > pay, that can easily cost you a heap of money that you can only > > > > > control by switching the phone off, and where is the > > point in that? > > > > > > > > Really?? cost you a heap of money? only by swithcing the > > phone off? > > > > what ever happened to not picking up? > > > > > > Ok, there is that, so long as you take time to determine > > whether you > > > recognise the number etc It does however make rec'ving calls on > > > the Cell phone much less attractive. > > > > I totaly agree that it makes it unattractive, but in no way > > does't it make the person calling me hesitate, so I can realy > > keep in touch. > > And so your spending level is dictated to you buy people that want to call > you, at the whim of another (so to speak) Not really, but lets say that yes, the bottom line is that compare the same amount of minutes from your cell phone and landline with an american, and whoops you overpaid. All because of the call you make to cell phones. > > > > > > > > > > what about unlimited > > > > nights and weekends completely free that most providers give you > > > > here. What about the fact that even when you do pay for > > the incoming > > > > it costs around > > > > $.05 a minute? > > > > > > How about just not having to pay for incoming calls at all, that > > > sounds much better. It makes being in touch easier and cheaper. > > > > Maybe, it makes it easier for the rec
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C F > Sent: Monday, 20 June 2005 3:46 AM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > > > Why is it that if you pay 10 times as much to call a cell > phone you > > > consider it NOT part of your cell phone bill? > > > > Who says I do? Where did you pull that "10 times" stuff? I > don't have > > to pay anything more to call a Cell phone that I do to call a land > > line. In fact > > OK, here it looks like you either misuderstood somthing or > you are a liar. Oooo, a diplomat! :) I showed you that your link to a mob called "cucumber" was not helpful to you or anyone else. Their pricing is fure fiction as far as .au telco pricing is concerned. > I already included the link where it showed > it costs more to call a cell phone. As for the the 10 times > figure I made a mistake (since I was still under the > impression that it costs only $.039 to call australia > landline) and make it 4+ times as much (7 cents to landline > and 30 to cell, that makes; 30/7=4+2/7 times as much as to a > landline). That's what happens when you pull figures out of the air. > > > for the 5 mobiles that I own, (my family members) the calls between > > them and my land lines are free. > > > > You already mentioned that (see below) that is NOT the argument. > Why not? > > Again, as the originator of the call I get to choose the > amount I spend. > > > > > Don't > > > you see how they succeeded in making you believe that your cell > > > phone is cheaper? I told you that none Amercians might not > > > understand this. :) > > > > Yeah, I see how _some_ americans don't get it. > > > > > > > > > when I don't originate the call, however in .us if you get > > > called, you > > > > pay, that can easily cost you a heap of money that you can only > > > > control by switching the phone off, and where is the > point in that? > > > > > > Really?? cost you a heap of money? only by swithcing the > phone off? > > > what ever happened to not picking up? > > > > Ok, there is that, so long as you take time to determine > whether you > > recognise the number etc It does however make rec'ving calls on > > the Cell phone much less attractive. > > I totaly agree that it makes it unattractive, but in no way > does't it make the person calling me hesitate, so I can realy > keep in touch. And so your spending level is dictated to you buy people that want to call you, at the whim of another (so to speak) > > > > > > what about unlimited > > > nights and weekends completely free that most providers give you > > > here. What about the fact that even when you do pay for > the incoming > > > it costs around > > > $.05 a minute? > > > > How about just not having to pay for incoming calls at all, that > > sounds much better. It makes being in touch easier and cheaper. > > Maybe, it makes it easier for the receiver but not for the > one making the call. And it is the one that _chooses_ to make the call that make the decision to spend the money. Who's money should they be able to choose to spend? Quite frankly someone else being able to spend my money at their whim scares the willies out of me. > So this part is again debateable, and > not what the argument is about. But if you add up the cents > and dollars it is cheaper to use cell phones in the states - > where incoming costs sometimes as little as making a LD > domestic call for the owner of the cell phone - than it is in > Australia, or all the other countries that they charge as > much as 4+ times to call the cell network. So the caller is more likely to (a) not waste my time, (b) not waste my money, (c) Get on with what they wanted to tell me, etc. > > > > > > I think I said enough. > > > > how does one respond to that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if I rec'v 500 calls a week on my cell phone, it still > > > costs me nothing. > > > > > > Wrong, because your provider succeeded in convincing your > freind to > > > make the same calculation, so when you have to call your > friend you > > > then pay 10 times as much than to a regular phone. > > > > Pure and unadulterated crapola, did you know that when people pluck > > numbers out of the air l
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> > Why is it that if you pay 10 times as much to call a cell > > phone you consider it NOT part of your cell phone bill? > > Who says I do? Where did you pull that "10 times" stuff? I don't have to pay > anything more to call a Cell phone that I do to call a land line. In fact OK, here it looks like you either misuderstood somthing or you are a liar. I already included the link where it showed it costs more to call a cell phone. As for the the 10 times figure I made a mistake (since I was still under the impression that it costs only $.039 to call australia landline) and make it 4+ times as much (7 cents to landline and 30 to cell, that makes; 30/7=4+2/7 times as much as to a landline). > for the 5 mobiles that I own, (my family members) the calls between them and > my land lines are free. > You already mentioned that (see below) that is NOT the argument. > Again, as the originator of the call I get to choose the amount I spend. > > > Don't > > you see how they succeeded in making you believe that your > > cell phone is cheaper? I told you that none Amercians might > > not understand this. :) > > Yeah, I see how _some_ americans don't get it. > > > > > > when I don't originate the call, however in .us if you get > > called, you > > > pay, that can easily cost you a heap of money that you can only > > > control by switching the phone off, and where is the point in that? > > > > Really?? cost you a heap of money? only by swithcing the phone off? > > what ever happened to not picking up? > > Ok, there is that, so long as you take time to determine whether you > recognise the number etc It does however make rec'ving calls on the Cell > phone much less attractive. I totaly agree that it makes it unattractive, but in no way does't it make the person calling me hesitate, so I can realy keep in touch. > > > what about unlimited > > nights and weekends completely free that most providers give > > you here. What about the fact that even when you do pay for > > the incoming it costs around > > $.05 a minute? > > How about just not having to pay for incoming calls at all, that sounds much > better. It makes being in touch easier and cheaper. Maybe, it makes it easier for the receiver but not for the one making the call. So this part is again debateable, and not what the argument is about. But if you add up the cents and dollars it is cheaper to use cell phones in the states - where incoming costs sometimes as little as making a LD domestic call for the owner of the cell phone - than it is in Australia, or all the other countries that they charge as much as 4+ times to call the cell network. > > > I think I said enough. > > how does one respond to that? > > > > > > > > > So if I rec'v 500 calls a week on my cell phone, it still > > costs me nothing. > > > > Wrong, because your provider succeeded in convincing your > > freind to make the same calculation, so when you have to call > > your friend you then pay 10 times as much than to a regular phone. > > Pure and unadulterated crapola, did you know that when people pluck numbers > out of the air like that it belittles their entire point? Can you explain why you can't argue this in english? or is it that you see that I am right? Now the only thing that I made a mistake about is the 10 times it should be 4+ times. > > > > > > And in some cases if I have the Cell and the Landline from the same > > > telco (in .au), calls between them are free too, regardless > > of where I > > > happen to be in australia at the time. > > > > So this we will take out of the argument since most American > > providers don't charge in network either. > > They do for out of zone calls, however with the telco I am using and the > account arrangements I have, it doesn't matter where the cell phone is, even > 4000km away is still a free call to my home land line. Really? I have a cell phone here in the states since January 1998, I have had cell phones with: Verizon, SprintPCS, AT&T, Cingular, and Nextel. None of them ever had so called out of zones, as long as I was anywhere on their network (CA to NY, to FL to WA, and all of the lower 48) had the same rate. In my family we currently have more than 10 cell phones, none pay any extra based on where they are. Here show me how many plans have what you describe: http://www.sprintpcs.com/ http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/index.jsp http://www.nextel.com/ http://www.cingular.com/indexc http://www.t-mobile.com/ > > > Oh, and cucumber seem to be doing you no favours either > > > > > > I can place a call to the US using my Cell phone for 1-2c/minute, > > > Caviat Emptor? > > > > Actualy you are right about this one, didn't realize they > > changed the rates to au, it used to be $.039 a minute. Thanks > > for pointing this out. In any case I know that Australia has > > now very good rates to call UK and the states, but that is > > only as far as LD goes. > > I have VoIP for calls to the .us and .uk I also can rout
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C F > Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2005 2:19 PM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > > > next month and tell hoe much cell phone costs you. > > > > The point I was making is that the charges are NOT on _My_ > cell phone > > bill, > > Why is it that if you pay 10 times as much to call a cell > phone you consider it NOT part of your cell phone bill? Who says I do? Where did you pull that "10 times" stuff? I don't have to pay anything more to call a Cell phone that I do to call a land line. In fact for the 5 mobiles that I own, (my family members) the calls between them and my land lines are free. Again, as the originator of the call I get to choose the amount I spend. > Don't > you see how they succeeded in making you believe that your > cell phone is cheaper? I told you that none Amercians might > not understand this. :) Yeah, I see how _some_ americans don't get it. > > > when I don't originate the call, however in .us if you get > called, you > > pay, that can easily cost you a heap of money that you can only > > control by switching the phone off, and where is the point in that? > > Really?? cost you a heap of money? only by swithcing the phone off? > what ever happened to not picking up? Ok, there is that, so long as you take time to determine whether you recognise the number etc It does however make rec'ving calls on the Cell phone much less attractive. > what about unlimited > nights and weekends completely free that most providers give > you here. What about the fact that even when you do pay for > the incoming it costs around > $.05 a minute? How about just not having to pay for incoming calls at all, that sounds much better. It makes being in touch easier and cheaper. > I think I said enough. how does one respond to that? > > > > > So if I rec'v 500 calls a week on my cell phone, it still > costs me nothing. > > Wrong, because your provider succeeded in convincing your > freind to make the same calculation, so when you have to call > your friend you then pay 10 times as much than to a regular phone. Pure and unadulterated crapola, did you know that when people pluck numbers out of the air like that it belittles their entire point? > > > And in some cases if I have the Cell and the Landline from the same > > telco (in .au), calls between them are free too, regardless > of where I > > happen to be in australia at the time. > > So this we will take out of the argument since most American > providers don't charge in network either. They do for out of zone calls, however with the telco I am using and the account arrangements I have, it doesn't matter where the cell phone is, even 4000km away is still a free call to my home land line. > > > > > Oh, and cucumber seem to be doing you no favours either > > > > I can place a call to the US using my Cell phone for 1-2c/minute, > > Caviat Emptor? > > Actualy you are right about this one, didn't realize they > changed the rates to au, it used to be $.039 a minute. Thanks > for pointing this out. In any case I know that Australia has > now very good rates to call UK and the states, but that is > only as far as LD goes. I have VoIP for calls to the .us and .uk I also can route my call via my home * box and then over VoIP to many other places to make the calls ** so with a call to .us for instance, I can use my cell to call one of my home land lines ** and then via * connect to the us using one of the IP Telcos *<1c/min>* , or to my office in Houston to the * box there ** Further: In the .US there is a groundswell of people that are angry with telemarketers calling them on their cell phones, Why is this? A: because the cost of the call is shifted to the called party, just like spam. The .au model of "caller pays" has pretty much ensured that telemarketers wont be a problem on _my_ cell phone. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> > next month and tell hoe much cell phone costs you. > > The point I was making is that the charges are NOT on _My_ cell phone bill, Why is it that if you pay 10 times as much to call a cell phone you consider it NOT part of your cell phone bill? Don't you see how they succeeded in making you believe that your cell phone is cheaper? I told you that none Amercians might not understand this. :) > when I don't originate the call, however in .us if you get called, you pay, > that can easily cost you a heap of money that you can only control by > switching the phone off, and where is the point in that? Really?? cost you a heap of money? only by swithcing the phone off? what ever happened to not picking up? what about unlimited nights and weekends completely free that most providers give you here. What about the fact that even when you do pay for the incoming it costs around $.05 a minute? I think I said enough. > > So if I rec'v 500 calls a week on my cell phone, it still costs me nothing. Wrong, because your provider succeeded in convincing your freind to make the same calculation, so when you have to call your friend you then pay 10 times as much than to a regular phone. > And in some cases if I have the Cell and the Landline from the same telco > (in .au), calls between them are free too, regardless of where I happen to > be in australia at the time. So this we will take out of the argument since most American providers don't charge in network either. > > Oh, and cucumber seem to be doing you no favours either > > I can place a call to the US using my Cell phone for 1-2c/minute, > Caviat Emptor? Actualy you are right about this one, didn't realize they changed the rates to au, it used to be $.039 a minute. Thanks for pointing this out. In any case I know that Australia has now very good rates to call UK and the states, but that is only as far as LD goes. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C F > Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 2:20 AM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > > > cheapest in the world. > > > > Ha Ha Ha Ha > > > > How is your electricity sold? Hour, Watt, or by unit (KW/h)? > > > > And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! > > How good is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that > > sometimes you just cannot call the house across the street without > > tracversing 3 exchanges, and then you have so many area > codes (each of > > which is so small) that almost all your calls are STD, then as for > > cheap, how is AUD$49.00/Month for all you can eat (that's about > > US$30/month) and all incoming calls are free, YES FREE! :) > > Really??? > http://www.cucumber.com/fullinternational29.htm > Look at the difference they (and everybody else) charges to > call the cell network. Check your bill (your landline bill) > next month and tell hoe much cell phone costs you. The point I was making is that the charges are NOT on _My_ cell phone bill, when I don't originate the call, however in .us if you get called, you pay, that can easily cost you a heap of money that you can only control by switching the phone off, and where is the point in that? So if I rec'v 500 calls a week on my cell phone, it still costs me nothing. And in some cases if I have the Cell and the Landline from the same telco (in .au), calls between them are free too, regardless of where I happen to be in australia at the time. Oh, and cucumber seem to be doing you no favours either I can place a call to the US using my Cell phone for 1-2c/minute, Caviat Emptor? > > > So much for the "american"(sic) always making things better. > > > > I knew that none americans might not see this unless pointed > out to them :) Ha Ha Ha ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
If you tell an american 'this is it', s/he will think of ways to change it and make it another way, thats why we have a '96 telecommunications act, and why having cell phones in the states are the cheapest in the world. Oh yeah. Americans are always faster, better, bigger. We cheese eating surrending monkeys get the idea ;-) Can we go back to asterisk stuff now? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
On 6/16/05, Tony Hoyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Terry H. Gilsenan wrote: > > > And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! How good > > is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that sometimes you just > > I believe that's unique to the US, the idea of paying for actually > receiving calls... don't know why they stand for it but I guess the > masses don't know any better. > > Here in the UK mobile phones are only £15/month on the cheapest tariffs > which equates to about $25.. $.30 a min to UK cell how is this cheap? http://www.cucumber.com/fullinternational29.htm > This thread could easily become a 'my phone is cheaper than yours' > argument :) I'm just waiting for someone from Japan to post... (they > *are* the cheapest in the world I believe, by a long margin). As for Japan I don't know you might be right. > > Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> > cheapest in the world. > > Ha Ha Ha Ha > > How is your electricity sold? Hour, Watt, or by unit (KW/h)? > > And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! How good > is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that sometimes you just > cannot call the house across the street without tracversing 3 exchanges, and > then you have so many area codes (each of which is so small) that almost all > your calls are STD, then as for cheap, how is AUD$49.00/Month for all you > can eat (that's about US$30/month) and all incoming calls are free, YES > FREE! :) Really??? http://www.cucumber.com/fullinternational29.htm Look at the difference they (and everybody else) charges to call the cell network. Check your bill (your landline bill) next month and tell hoe much cell phone costs you. > So much for the "american"(sic) always making things better. > I knew that none americans might not see this unless pointed out to them :) > The best phone and postal services by far in in Australia. There are no > peers at all. > > Sorry, I just had to call that bluff > > T > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Americo 60+60 isn't a VoIP term directly but a generic one within the telephony industry if it were 60+30 it would mean the following You are billed for 60 second as soon as the call is answered, even if you only stay on the line for 7 seconds The +30 then referes to the onward billing cycle, so in this case you are billed in blocks of 30 seconds (ie if you call is 1 min 15 seconds you are billed for 1 min 30) You said that you are billed for a whole second minuite if you go over by even 1 second, so that would be a +60, and since its always a bigger or equal number first we are guessing that you are in 60+60 rate plan I think its more common in your part of the world for your carriers to bill 30+6. One in the replys suggested a very favorable rate of 6+6 The important thing to rember here is that you can't gaurentee enough return if you do a billing rate that is better than that of your carriers - it sounds to me like your offering your service on a 1+1 (ie true per second billing) rate - very honarable, but your carrier needs to offer the same. I hope that helps On 17/06/05, Americo Sanchez C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >From: "Leon Sun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > > > >To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'" > > > >Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > >Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:56:23 -0700 > > > >The easiest way is to change another vendor asap. > Do you mean to change to another telecom? In my country there is a telephone > monopoly :( Telefonica del Peru) > >It is ridiculous that your > >carrier still uses 60+60 now(30+6 is an asset). 2 seconds doesn't matter > >and > >billing unit does. > Sorry I am not an expert in VoIP, What is the meaning of "60+60"? > > > > > >Leon Sun > > > >-Original Message- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wiebe > >Sent: June 15, 2005 10:06 PM > >To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > >Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > > >I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it > >would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second > >adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly > >easy also... > > > >Darren Wiebe > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > > > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > > > service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our > > > local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use > > > it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk > > > is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The > > > problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second > > > delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round > > > fractions up). > > > > > > We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a > > > solution for this matter. > > > > > > Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can > > > we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system > > > thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? > > > > > > _ > > > MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ > > > > > > ___ > > > Asterisk-Users mailing list > > > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > > > > > > >___ > >Asterisk-Users mailing list > >Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > >To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > > > > > >___ > >Asterisk-Users mailing list > >Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > >To UNSUBSCR
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Americo Sanchez C. wrote: From: David John Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: David John Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:36:00 +0100 Another way I have seen this done is to sell units, not pounds and pence credit eg a £2 calling card has 160 units (ratio of 80 units to the pound). If you were to charge 8p per min you make that 8 units per min. This gives you a 20% increase which might help if your on per second billing to your upstream carrier. otherwise you need to make changes to your rating engine with a " /60*58 " to re-rate all calls back to a second ( /60) and move the minuite charge to be a 58 second minuit (*58) What configuration files I must to edit to achieved this? You would have to actually go in and edit astcc.agi. I have a patch in the bugtracker which simplifies and corrects rating issues in astcc.agi. Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] how that is achived needs you to give specific information on which calling card platform you are using. I am using ASTCC. You may have a problem in defining the rates as "per minuite" if they are not a widely understood minuite legally - it depends on the laws of your country (in the UK the Trades Descriptions Act would apply and you'd be hit hard) David On 16/06/05, Race Vanderdecken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your customers are not going to like this. > > You have to change the way you bill for calls. > > For $1 your customer gets 60 seconds worth of phone time. However you > have to also charge, like the Bells used to, for setup and teardown > time. Remember the operator used to say " Deposit $1.85 for the first > three minutes" and then it would be 30 cents per minute after that. > > Buy a phone card from a competitor and look at the fine print on the > card. > > You charge buy seconds they are connected to your system, not for the > time they are actually talking to the remote party. > > Example: > > To set up the call you charge 10 seconds, and to stop the call you > charge 5 seconds. So the customer only gets 45 seconds of call time. You > get a 15 second cushion. > > Does not seem fair does it. But if they buy an hour 3600 seconds worth > of calls the missing 15 seconds won't be noticed. > > You can go further. > > Say they buy a 3600 second card. When they call to check their time the > first time on the card you tell them they have 60 minutes, but you > charge them 30 seconds for asking. Set up the code so that every time > they call you have too fields to track call time. The time they think > they have and the time you know they have. > > You tell them they have 45 minutes, but the other field knows they only > have 30 minutes. If they ask then your script says "45 minutes left" but > you cut them off when the use 30. > > Then you chip away each time the call. 10 seconds for making a call, and > 5 seconds when they hang up. This way you are always in credit and can > cut them off without loosing money. > > Some card vendors go even further. They sell 3600 seconds, but each time > a call is made they whack a random percentage of the time. > > Worse yet their card system will randomly or systematically hang up on > callers. This will cause the user to redial the call and get hit with > connection charges that vary. > > Customers eventually figure out which cards do this type of chicanery > and they stop buying them, but only if there is a competitor for the > route they want to call. > > Such is the world of unregulated phone calls. Not pretty is it. > > Charging time for each call is part of the business. If you don't want > to charge time to setup and teardown then you have to charge more per > minute. Your customers get all the time the pay for down to the second, > but you are going to have to charge more per minute or you will be in > the boat you are in now. > > Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren > Wiebe > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:06 AM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it > would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second > adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly > easy also... > > Darren Wiebe > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > > > > Hi all, >
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
It gets even better here in the US. You can prepay for you cell service, but your unused mintues expire after 90 days, and you forfeit your balance. Greed is good. Race -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Hoyle Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:48 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds Terry H. Gilsenan wrote: > And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! How good > is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that sometimes you just I believe that's unique to the US, the idea of paying for actually receiving calls... don't know why they stand for it but I guess the masses don't know any better. Here in the UK mobile phones are only £15/month on the cheapest tariffs which equates to about $25.. This thread could easily become a 'my phone is cheaper than yours' argument :) I'm just waiting for someone from Japan to post... (they *are* the cheapest in the world I believe, by a long margin). Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
>-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users->[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry H. Gilsenan >Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:24 PM >To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' >Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > act, and why having cell phones in the states are the > cheapest in the world. >Ha Ha Ha Ha >How is your electricity sold? Hour, Watt, or by unit (KW/h)? >And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! How >good >is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that sometimes you just >cannot call the house across the street without tracversing 3 exchanges, >and >then you have so many area codes (each of which is so small) that almost >all >your calls are STD, then as for cheap, how is AUD$49.00/Month for all you >can eat (that's about US$30/month) and all incoming calls are free, YES >FREE! :) >So much for the "american"(sic) always making things better. >The best phone and postal services by far in in Australia. There are no >peers at all. >Sorry, I just had to call that bluff >T My cell is $45 US a month, and includes unlimited local calls, as well as unlimited US and Canada long distance... Home phone is $35 a month and includes unlimited US and Canada long distance, and two numbers in other states so my family can call me for free as well. As far as the area codes being so small... there's a lot of phones... I know I personally have 5 phone numbers (only one of which I ever give out)... so yeah... we do have a lot of area codes... ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
From: David John Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: David John Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:36:00 +0100 Another way I have seen this done is to sell units, not pounds and pence credit eg a £2 calling card has 160 units (ratio of 80 units to the pound). If you were to charge 8p per min you make that 8 units per min. This gives you a 20% increase which might help if your on per second billing to your upstream carrier. otherwise you need to make changes to your rating engine with a " /60*58 " to re-rate all calls back to a second ( /60) and move the minuite charge to be a 58 second minuit (*58) What configuration files I must to edit to achieved this? how that is achived needs you to give specific information on which calling card platform you are using. I am using ASTCC. You may have a problem in defining the rates as "per minuite" if they are not a widely understood minuite legally - it depends on the laws of your country (in the UK the Trades Descriptions Act would apply and you'd be hit hard) David On 16/06/05, Race Vanderdecken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your customers are not going to like this. > > You have to change the way you bill for calls. > > For $1 your customer gets 60 seconds worth of phone time. However you > have to also charge, like the Bells used to, for setup and teardown > time. Remember the operator used to say " Deposit $1.85 for the first > three minutes" and then it would be 30 cents per minute after that. > > Buy a phone card from a competitor and look at the fine print on the > card. > > You charge buy seconds they are connected to your system, not for the > time they are actually talking to the remote party. > > Example: > > To set up the call you charge 10 seconds, and to stop the call you > charge 5 seconds. So the customer only gets 45 seconds of call time. You > get a 15 second cushion. > > Does not seem fair does it. But if they buy an hour 3600 seconds worth > of calls the missing 15 seconds won't be noticed. > > You can go further. > > Say they buy a 3600 second card. When they call to check their time the > first time on the card you tell them they have 60 minutes, but you > charge them 30 seconds for asking. Set up the code so that every time > they call you have too fields to track call time. The time they think > they have and the time you know they have. > > You tell them they have 45 minutes, but the other field knows they only > have 30 minutes. If they ask then your script says "45 minutes left" but > you cut them off when the use 30. > > Then you chip away each time the call. 10 seconds for making a call, and > 5 seconds when they hang up. This way you are always in credit and can > cut them off without loosing money. > > Some card vendors go even further. They sell 3600 seconds, but each time > a call is made they whack a random percentage of the time. > > Worse yet their card system will randomly or systematically hang up on > callers. This will cause the user to redial the call and get hit with > connection charges that vary. > > Customers eventually figure out which cards do this type of chicanery > and they stop buying them, but only if there is a competitor for the > route they want to call. > > Such is the world of unregulated phone calls. Not pretty is it. > > Charging time for each call is part of the business. If you don't want > to charge time to setup and teardown then you have to charge more per > minute. Your customers get all the time the pay for down to the second, > but you are going to have to charge more per minute or you will be in > the boat you are in now. > > Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren > Wiebe > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:06 AM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it > would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second > adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly > easy also... > > Darren Wiebe > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > > service results but there's a problem with
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
From: "Leon Sun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'" Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:56:23 -0700 The easiest way is to change another vendor asap. Do you mean to change to another telecom? In my country there is a telephone monopoly :( Telefonica del Peru) It is ridiculous that your carrier still uses 60+60 now(30+6 is an asset). 2 seconds doesn't matter and billing unit does. Sorry I am not an expert in VoIP, What is the meaning of "60+60"? Leon Sun -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wiebe Sent: June 15, 2005 10:06 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly easy also... Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > Hi all, > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our > local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use > it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk > is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The > problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second > delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round > fractions up). > > We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a > solution for this matter. > > Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can > we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system > thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? > > _ > MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ > > ___ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users _ Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Terry H. Gilsenan wrote: And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! How good is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that sometimes you just I believe that's unique to the US, the idea of paying for actually receiving calls... don't know why they stand for it but I guess the masses don't know any better. Here in the UK mobile phones are only £15/month on the cheapest tariffs which equates to about $25.. This thread could easily become a 'my phone is cheaper than yours' argument :) I'm just waiting for someone from Japan to post... (they *are* the cheapest in the world I believe, by a long margin). Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C F > Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 9:07 AM > To: David John Walsh; Asterisk Users Mailing List - > Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > On 6/16/05, David John Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Another way I have seen this done is to sell units, not pounds and > > pence credit > > > > eg a £2 calling card has 160 units (ratio of 80 units to the pound). > > What I'm about to wirte might be off topic, but since I was > reading your reply I couldn't resist. > What you are suggesting only works in England, Units, what? > is what you get in the states when you try doing such a > thing, they want to know how many MINUTES they get for the $, > thats it. Being married to an English lady I have relized (or > relised) that the English still live in the dark ages > when it comes to certain things, especialy things that have > to do with "thats the way it is". If you tell an american > 'this is it', s/he will think of ways to change it and make > it another way, thats why we have a '96 telecommunications > act, and why having cell phones in the states are the > cheapest in the world. Ha Ha Ha Ha How is your electricity sold? Hour, Watt, or by unit (KW/h)? And as for cell phones being cheap, you have a receiver pays setup! How good is that, then you have so many competing Telcos that sometimes you just cannot call the house across the street without tracversing 3 exchanges, and then you have so many area codes (each of which is so small) that almost all your calls are STD, then as for cheap, how is AUD$49.00/Month for all you can eat (that?s about US$30/month) and all incoming calls are free, YES FREE! :) So much for the "american"(sic) always making things better. The best phone and postal services by far in in Australia. There are no peers at all. Sorry, I just had to call that bluff T ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
On 6/16/05, David John Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Another way I have seen this done is to sell units, not pounds and pence > credit > > eg a £2 calling card has 160 units (ratio of 80 units to the pound). > > If you were to charge 8p per min you make that 8 units per min. This > gives you a 20% increase which might help if your on per second > billing to your upstream carrier. > > otherwise you need to make changes to your rating engine with a " > /60*58 " to re-rate all calls back to a second ( /60) and move the > minuite charge to be a 58 second minuit (*58) > > how that is achived needs you to give specific information on which > calling card platform you are using. > > You may have a problem in defining the rates as "per minuite" if they > are not a widely understood minuite legally - it depends on the laws > of your country (in the UK the Trades Descriptions Act would apply and > you'd be hit hard) > > David > What I'm about to wirte might be off topic, but since I was reading your reply I couldn't resist. What you are suggesting only works in England, Units, what? is what you get in the states when you try doing such a thing, they want to know how many MINUTES they get for the $, thats it. Being married to an English lady I have relized (or relised) that the English still live in the dark ages when it comes to certain things, especialy things that have to do with "thats the way it is". If you tell an american 'this is it', s/he will think of ways to change it and make it another way, thats why we have a '96 telecommunications act, and why having cell phones in the states are the cheapest in the world. "2 nations devided by a common language" Winston Churchill ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
If you need a SIP 30+6 a-z carrier, let me know. We may do 6+6 for you. Leon Sun -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wiebe Sent: June 15, 2005 10:06 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly easy also... Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > Hi all, > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our > local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use > it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk > is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The > problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second > delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round > fractions up). > > We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a > solution for this matter. > > Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can > we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system > thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? > > _ > MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ > > ___ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
The easiest way is to change another vendor asap. It is ridiculous that your carrier still uses 60+60 now(30+6 is an asset). 2 seconds doesn't matter and billing unit does. Leon Sun -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wiebe Sent: June 15, 2005 10:06 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly easy also... Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > Hi all, > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our > local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use > it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk > is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The > problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second > delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round > fractions up). > > We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a > solution for this matter. > > Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can > we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system > thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? > > _ > MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ > > ___ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Another way I have seen this done is to sell units, not pounds and pence credit eg a £2 calling card has 160 units (ratio of 80 units to the pound). If you were to charge 8p per min you make that 8 units per min. This gives you a 20% increase which might help if your on per second billing to your upstream carrier. otherwise you need to make changes to your rating engine with a " /60*58 " to re-rate all calls back to a second ( /60) and move the minuite charge to be a 58 second minuit (*58) how that is achived needs you to give specific information on which calling card platform you are using. You may have a problem in defining the rates as "per minuite" if they are not a widely understood minuite legally - it depends on the laws of your country (in the UK the Trades Descriptions Act would apply and you'd be hit hard) David On 16/06/05, Race Vanderdecken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your customers are not going to like this. > > You have to change the way you bill for calls. > > For $1 your customer gets 60 seconds worth of phone time. However you > have to also charge, like the Bells used to, for setup and teardown > time. Remember the operator used to say " Deposit $1.85 for the first > three minutes" and then it would be 30 cents per minute after that. > > Buy a phone card from a competitor and look at the fine print on the > card. > > You charge buy seconds they are connected to your system, not for the > time they are actually talking to the remote party. > > Example: > > To set up the call you charge 10 seconds, and to stop the call you > charge 5 seconds. So the customer only gets 45 seconds of call time. You > get a 15 second cushion. > > Does not seem fair does it. But if they buy an hour 3600 seconds worth > of calls the missing 15 seconds won't be noticed. > > You can go further. > > Say they buy a 3600 second card. When they call to check their time the > first time on the card you tell them they have 60 minutes, but you > charge them 30 seconds for asking. Set up the code so that every time > they call you have too fields to track call time. The time they think > they have and the time you know they have. > > You tell them they have 45 minutes, but the other field knows they only > have 30 minutes. If they ask then your script says "45 minutes left" but > you cut them off when the use 30. > > Then you chip away each time the call. 10 seconds for making a call, and > 5 seconds when they hang up. This way you are always in credit and can > cut them off without loosing money. > > Some card vendors go even further. They sell 3600 seconds, but each time > a call is made they whack a random percentage of the time. > > Worse yet their card system will randomly or systematically hang up on > callers. This will cause the user to redial the call and get hit with > connection charges that vary. > > Customers eventually figure out which cards do this type of chicanery > and they stop buying them, but only if there is a competitor for the > route they want to call. > > Such is the world of unregulated phone calls. Not pretty is it. > > Charging time for each call is part of the business. If you don't want > to charge time to setup and teardown then you have to charge more per > minute. Your customers get all the time the pay for down to the second, > but you are going to have to charge more per minute or you will be in > the boat you are in now. > > Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren > Wiebe > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:06 AM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds > > I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it > would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second > adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly > easy also... > > Darren Wiebe > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > > service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our > > local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and > use > > it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. > Asterisk > > is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The > > problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second > > d
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Hi all, I am using ASTCC From: Darren Wiebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:05:54 -0600 I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly easy also... Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Americo Sanchez C. wrote: Hi all, We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round fractions up). We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a solution for this matter. Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? _ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users _ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Your customers are not going to like this. You have to change the way you bill for calls. For $1 your customer gets 60 seconds worth of phone time. However you have to also charge, like the Bells used to, for setup and teardown time. Remember the operator used to say " Deposit $1.85 for the first three minutes" and then it would be 30 cents per minute after that. Buy a phone card from a competitor and look at the fine print on the card. You charge buy seconds they are connected to your system, not for the time they are actually talking to the remote party. Example: To set up the call you charge 10 seconds, and to stop the call you charge 5 seconds. So the customer only gets 45 seconds of call time. You get a 15 second cushion. Does not seem fair does it. But if they buy an hour 3600 seconds worth of calls the missing 15 seconds won't be noticed. You can go further. Say they buy a 3600 second card. When they call to check their time the first time on the card you tell them they have 60 minutes, but you charge them 30 seconds for asking. Set up the code so that every time they call you have too fields to track call time. The time they think they have and the time you know they have. You tell them they have 45 minutes, but the other field knows they only have 30 minutes. If they ask then your script says "45 minutes left" but you cut them off when the use 30. Then you chip away each time the call. 10 seconds for making a call, and 5 seconds when they hang up. This way you are always in credit and can cut them off without loosing money. Some card vendors go even further. They sell 3600 seconds, but each time a call is made they whack a random percentage of the time. Worse yet their card system will randomly or systematically hang up on callers. This will cause the user to redial the call and get hit with connection charges that vary. Customers eventually figure out which cards do this type of chicanery and they stop buying them, but only if there is a competitor for the route they want to call. Such is the world of unregulated phone calls. Not pretty is it. Charging time for each call is part of the business. If you don?t want to charge time to setup and teardown then you have to charge more per minute. Your customers get all the time the pay for down to the second, but you are going to have to charge more per minute or you will be in the boat you are in now. Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wiebe Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:06 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly easy also... Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > Hi all, > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific > service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our > local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use > it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk > is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The > problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second > delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round > fractions up). > > We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a > solution for this matter. > > Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can > we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system > thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? > > _ > MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ > > ___ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
I've done a little thinking on this one If you are using ASTCC, it would be fairly straightforward to edit it and have it make a 2 second adjustment. If your using another solution it probably would be fairly easy also... Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Americo Sanchez C. wrote: Hi all, We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're testing a prepaid phone service. As far as now we're having terrific service results but there's a problem with the calls billing at our local telecom. For instance, a farmer buys a 1 dollar phone card and use it to dial a USA number, the call should lasts for 60 seconds. Asterisk is doing a great job finishing the call exactly at 60 seconds. The problem is that the telecom company billing system adds a two second delay for each call, so the bill is not for 1 but 2 minutes (they round fractions up). We're loosing money and the local telecom doesn't seem to have a solution for this matter. Have you experienced something similar? Do you have any idea of how can we solve this? Is it possible to configure Asterisk so that the system thinks that a minute has 58 seconds instead of 60? _ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Bill seconds
Americo Sanchez C. wrote: > > Hi all, > > We've installed Asterisk on a rural development project and we're > testing a prepaid phone service. Americo, what prepaid solution are you using at your asterisk box? Thanks in advance. -- Juan Luis Moyano [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
