Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 07:26, Eric ManxPower Wieling wrote: We reboot all our Asterisk servers once per week if they have a TDM400P in them. If we don't do that, then the TDM400P modules stop working. I have *never* rebooted an Asterisk system because of the TDM400. Granted, the driver did have a signed/unsigned variable issue but it's been fixed quite literally for months. When that *was* an issue, I would of course stop asterisk and unload/reload the wctdm module, but as I said that has not been a problem for six months, if not longer. *CLI zap show status Description Alarms IRQbpviol CRC4 Wildcard TDM400P REV E/F Board 1 OK 0 0 0 *CLI show uptime System uptime: 8 weeks, 1 day, 11 hours, 26 seconds *CLI show version Asterisk SVN-trunk-r8643M built by root @ asterisk on a i686 running Linux on 2006-01-25 12:57:55 UTC # w 08:48:24 up 57 days, 10:57, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.03, 0.01 As a community we *really* need to stop pushing these old issues as if they were current. There *were* problems, but they *have* been fixed. -A. ... hell, I'm even sharing interrupts on this TDM400P: # cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 496444645 XT-PIC timer 1: 2 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 10:4947152 XT-PIC eth0 11: 669495590 XT-PIC wctdm, usb-uhci 14: 168829 XT-PIC ide0 NMI: 0 ERR: 0 Not as wow as when I was using a diferent system and sharing TDM400P interrupts with the NIC (the box was also an NFS server), but seriously... the old rumours and bugs that DID exist have been quite squashed, in my opinion. We need to move on and start complaining about the current bugs! :-) -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
Lorentz Hinrichsen wrote: I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation). Which boards are cheaper _and_ have hardware echo cancellation? ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
That's odd... two systems here, each with a tdm04b, and they run for weeks without issues. The only time these systems get restarted is when we have to make changes that aren't addressed via reload. (fc3 with rev I cards.) Eric ManxPower Wieling wrote: We reboot all our Asterisk servers once per week if they have a TDM400P in them. If we don't do that, then the TDM400P modules stop working. Lorentz Hinrichsen wrote: at the risk of starting a flame war: I stand corrected on the pricing, however I also stand behind my observation about the reliability/quality/longevity of the board. Unless the Digium folks have made changes to the latest revisions. I currently have three TDM400P's all have shown unreliable results. Symptoms - adjusting the gain would not eliminate echo on local calls, modules fail and the machine needs to be rebooted The module failures are the most troubling, this is in a variety of motherboards and systems. Intel and VIA based. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
I thought the whole thing with the hardware echo cancellation is that it was basically in liu of the equivilent echo cancellation done in software... The reason to go to the hardware was for high-density systems?? For two FXOs, I thought I'd be safe in getting the non-echo cancellation cards, but perhaps no, huh?! :-( -Steve From: Lorentz Hinrichsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 4/5/2006 8:56 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo... http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_359_360 A20002 no echo can = 359 A2002D with echo can = 659 Both above are with 4 FXO I don't know if these are the best prices you can find, but for comparison - from the same vendor: http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_103 DGM-TDM04B = 378.90 The above is without echo can. There is no option for echo can, you are stuck tuning the gain, which when I tried - left my call volume too low or caused the echo to be worse! I agree that rebooting sometimes brings the digium card back to life. I've yet to have a problem with the Sangoma, also -- I have not tried their board without the echo cancellation. I'm thinking you'd be stuck adjusting the gain though. On 4/5/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell me what model Sangoma cards you're talking about?? The ones I saw that had HW echo cancellation were substantially more expensive than the Digiums.. I'm hoping I was looking at the wrong model or something! Thanks -Steve From: Lorentz Hinrichsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 4/4/2006 10:48 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo... I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation). The digium boards proved almost impossible to completely eliminate echo, and I had random failures over time. On 4/4/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phones, I've got a GS 101, a Sipura 841, and two analog phones hooked to an GS386 ATA (one phone per port). My troubles seem to be regardless of which phone is used, so I dont think it's on the phone-end of asterisk, but rather where I interface w/ Vonage and Verizon via POTS FXO... My SIP connections to the outside world have so far been good [frantically knocking on wood] I did go ahead and order the digium card yesterday evening, so I'm hopeful this will help. I had played with the gain, and was able to discern a difference, but it seemed to make some scenarios better, while making others worse, so I'm hoping the real digium card/drivers will just be smarter about handling it dynamically. Of course, my wife, who's a stay-at-home-mom is the biggest user of the system, but she's not interested in being a techy, so getting her to interrogate all callers about which number they dialed, etc.. and logging her opinions of the quality of the call hasn't worked! ;-) I also have some Cisco phones, but I haven't configured SCCP on my system yet, and dont want to use SIP on these phone (mostly to force myself to learn to configure SCCP on *) so that's another aspect that may help me after this weekend! Good point about the interrupts - I dont know the answer to that, but hopefully that'll also be a non-issue after I get the new card, and therefore have only one PCI slot handling everything. Thanks for the ideas!! -Steve From: Mike Dent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo... On 4/3/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my Asterisk (At my house - 2 modem-type fxos, and an assortment of SIP endpoints for phones) for about 5 weeks now, and I've been really happy with it, but I'm still having an echo problem that I've exhausted google with, and can't get straight... I think I've determined that because I'm using $7 voice modem clones for my FXOs that bad echo is going to just keep being a pain to me... I think I should have only tried going through proof of concept state with them
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
We reboot all our Asterisk servers once per week if they have a TDM400P in them. If we don't do that, then the TDM400P modules stop working. Lorentz Hinrichsen wrote: at the risk of starting a flame war: I stand corrected on the pricing, however I also stand behind my observation about the reliability/quality/longevity of the board. Unless the Digium folks have made changes to the latest revisions. I currently have three TDM400P's all have shown unreliable results. Symptoms - adjusting the gain would not eliminate echo on local calls, modules fail and the machine needs to be rebooted The module failures are the most troubling, this is in a variety of motherboards and systems. Intel and VIA based. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
Can you tell me what model Sangoma cards you're talking about?? The ones I saw that had HW echo cancellation were substantially more expensive than the Digiums.. I'm hoping I was looking at the wrong model or something! Thanks -Steve From: Lorentz Hinrichsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 4/4/2006 10:48 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo... I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation). The digium boards proved almost impossible to completely eliminate echo, and I had random failures over time. On 4/4/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phones, I've got a GS 101, a Sipura 841, and two analog phones hooked to an GS386 ATA (one phone per port). My troubles seem to be regardless of which phone is used, so I dont think it's on the phone-end of asterisk, but rather where I interface w/ Vonage and Verizon via POTS FXO... My SIP connections to the outside world have so far been good [frantically knocking on wood] I did go ahead and order the digium card yesterday evening, so I'm hopeful this will help. I had played with the gain, and was able to discern a difference, but it seemed to make some scenarios better, while making others worse, so I'm hoping the real digium card/drivers will just be smarter about handling it dynamically. Of course, my wife, who's a stay-at-home-mom is the biggest user of the system, but she's not interested in being a techy, so getting her to interrogate all callers about which number they dialed, etc.. and logging her opinions of the quality of the call hasn't worked! ;-) I also have some Cisco phones, but I haven't configured SCCP on my system yet, and dont want to use SIP on these phone (mostly to force myself to learn to configure SCCP on *) so that's another aspect that may help me after this weekend! Good point about the interrupts - I dont know the answer to that, but hopefully that'll also be a non-issue after I get the new card, and therefore have only one PCI slot handling everything. Thanks for the ideas!! -Steve From: Mike Dent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo... On 4/3/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my Asterisk (At my house - 2 modem-type fxos, and an assortment of SIP endpoints for phones) for about 5 weeks now, and I've been really happy with it, but I'm still having an echo problem that I've exhausted google with, and can't get straight... I think I've determined that because I'm using $7 voice modem clones for my FXOs that bad echo is going to just keep being a pain to me... I think I should have only tried going through proof of concept state with them, switching to something a little better quality when it was time to actually commit to Asterisk. So, my question is What's better and why: 1: a 'real' digium PCI card with two fxo plugins, or using a couple external SIP fxo units like a grandstream, zoom, or similar Personally, I think it would be desirable to keep the FXOs out of the asterisk box itself, just to give me future flexability to move to whatever the platform of the day I want to put asterisk on, without dealing with a PCI card to move, but if the consensus is that the voice quality and support for the digium board is the best, then that's what I'll do.. So, any comments on relative quality of these devices, and/or ones I've missed? 1: Grandstream HT-488 2: Zoom 5801/5802 3: DGM-TDM02B (TDM 400P with two FXOs) Are there any IAX2 FXOs that I'm missing? That seems to be an area that's oddly not taken care of... Any hints would be greatly appreciated! Steve, I have a similar setup at home, although I am in the UK. I've got the echo fairly well under control, however it seems much less when using my Cisco 7960 rather than the Grandstrean BT102 phone. Have you tried dropping the gain? Have you made sure you have both cards on seperate IRQ's which are not in use by network, video etc? I disabled USB and on board audio in the BIOS to help free up IRQ's. I think your best option is the TDM400 card, or perhaps consider
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_359_360A20002 no echo can = 359A2002D with echo can = 659Both above are with 4 FXO I don't know if these are the best prices you can find, but for comparison - from the same vendor:http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_103 DGM-TDM04B = 378.90The above is without echo can. There is no option for echo can, you are stuck tuning the gain, which when I tried - left my call volume too low or caused the echo to be worse!I agree that rebooting sometimes brings the digium card back to life. I've yet to have a problem with the Sangoma, also -- I have not tried their board without the echo cancellation. I'm thinking you'd be stuck adjusting the gain though.On 4/5/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell me what model Sangoma cards you're talking about??The ones I saw that had HW echo cancellation were substantially more expensive than the Digiums..I'm hoping I was looking at the wrong model or something! Thanks-SteveFrom: Lorentz Hinrichsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tue 4/4/2006 10:48 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation). The digium boards proved almost impossible to completely eliminate echo, and I had random failures over time.On 4/4/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phones, I've got a GS 101, a Sipura 841, and two analog phones hooked to an GS386 ATA (one phone per port).My troubles seem to be regardless of which phone is used, so I dont think it's on the phone-end of asterisk, but rather where I interface w/ Vonage and Verizon via POTS FXO...My SIP connections to the outside world have so far been good [frantically knocking on wood] I did go ahead and order the digium card yesterday evening, so I'm hopeful this will help.I had played with the gain, and was able to discern a difference, but it seemed to make some scenarios better, while making others worse, so I'm hoping the real digium card/drivers will just be smarter about handling it dynamically.Of course, my wife, who's a stay-at-home-mom is the biggest user of the system, but she's not interested in being a techy, so getting her to interrogate all callers about which number they dialed, etc.. and logging her opinions of the quality of the call hasn't worked!;-) I also have some Cisco phones, but I haven't configured SCCP on my system yet, and dont want to use SIP on these phone (mostly to force myself to learn to configure SCCP on *) so that's another aspect that may help me after this weekend! Good point about the interrupts - I dont know the answer to that, but hopefully that'll also be a non-issue after I get the new card, and therefore have only one PCI slot handling everything.Thanks for the ideas!! -SteveFrom: Mike Dent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 3:46 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...On 4/3/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my Asterisk (At my house - 2 modem-type fxos, and an assortment of SIP endpoints for phones) for about 5 weeks now, and I've been really happy with it, but I'm still having an echo problem that I've exhausted google with, and can't get straight... I think I've determined that because I'm using $7 voice modem clones for my FXOs that bad echo is going to just keep being a pain to me...I think I should have only tried going through proof of concept state with them, switching to something a little better quality when it was time to actually commit to Asterisk. So, my question is What's better and why:1: a 'real' digium PCI card with two fxo plugins, or using a couple external SIP fxo units like a grandstream, zoom, or similarPersonally, I think it would be desirable to keep the FXOs out of the asterisk box itself, just to give me future flexability to move to whatever the platform of the day I want to put asterisk on, without dealing with a PCI card to move, but if the consensus is that the voice quality and support for the digium board is the best, then that's what I'll do.. So, any comments on relative quality of these devices, and/or ones I've missed? 1:Grandstream HT-488 2:Zoom 5801/5802 3:DGM-TDM02B(TDM 400P with two FXOs) Are there any IAX2 FXOs that I'm missing?That seems to be an area that's oddly not taken care of... Any hints would be greatly appreciated!Steve,I have a similar setup at home, although I am in the UK. I've got theecho fairly well under control, however it seems much less when using my Cisco 7960 rather thanthe Grandstrean BT102 phone.Have you tried dropping the gain?Have you made sure you have both cards on seperate IRQ's which are notin use by network, video etc? I disabled USB and on board audio in the BIOS
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
at the risk of starting a flame war:I stand corrected on the pricing, however I also stand behind my observation about the reliability/quality/longevity of the board. Unless the Digium folks have made changes to the latest revisions. I currently have three TDM400P's all have shown unreliable results. Symptoms - adjusting the gain would not eliminate echo on local calls, modules fail and the machine needs to be rebootedThe module failures are the most troubling, this is in a variety of motherboards and systems. Intel and VIA based. If anyone is interested in purchasing my 3 - TDM's (I have a variety of modules, primarly FXO) They are for sale :-)I also should state that I've only been using the Sangoma's for a little over a month, I did purchase the Echo Cancelling model (which prices it higher than the TDM400P). But I've had no trouble with echo so far. LorentzOn 4/5/06, jason justman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you just have to run fxotune and get it to tone down the lineshttp://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+fxotunejKevin P. Fleming wrote: Lorentz Hinrichsen wrote: I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation). Which boards are cheaper _and_ have hardware echo cancellation? ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --Asterisk-Users mailing listTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation).The digium boards proved almost impossible to completely eliminate echo, and I had random failures over time. On 4/4/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For phones, I've got a GS 101, a Sipura 841, and two analog phones hooked to an GS386 ATA (one phone per port).My troubles seem to be regardless of which phone is used, so I dont think it's on the phone-end of asterisk, but rather where I interface w/ Vonage and Verizon via POTS FXO...My SIP connections to the outside world have so far been good [frantically knocking on wood] I did go ahead and order the digium card yesterday evening, so I'm hopeful this will help.I had played with the gain, and was able to discern a difference, but it seemed to make some scenarios better, while making others worse, so I'm hoping the real digium card/drivers will just be smarter about handling it dynamically.Of course, my wife, who's a stay-at-home-mom is the biggest user of the system, but she's not interested in being a techy, so getting her to interrogate all callers about which number they dialed, etc.. and logging her opinions of the quality of the call hasn't worked!;-) I also have some Cisco phones, but I haven't configured SCCP on my system yet, and dont want to use SIP on these phone (mostly to force myself to learn to configure SCCP on *) so that's another aspect that may help me after this weekend! Good point about the interrupts - I dont know the answer to that, but hopefully that'll also be a non-issue after I get the new card, and therefore have only one PCI slot handling everything.Thanks for the ideas!! -SteveFrom: Mike Dent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 3:46 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...On 4/3/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my Asterisk (At my house - 2 modem-type fxos, and an assortment of SIP endpoints for phones) for about 5 weeks now, and I've been really happy with it, but I'm still having an echo problem that I've exhausted google with, and can't get straight... I think I've determined that because I'm using $7 voice modem clones for my FXOs that bad echo is going to just keep being a pain to me...I think I should have only tried going through proof of concept state with them, switching to something a little better quality when it was time to actually commit to Asterisk. So, my question is What's better and why:1: a 'real' digium PCI card with two fxo plugins, or using a couple external SIP fxo units like a grandstream, zoom, or similarPersonally, I think it would be desirable to keep the FXOs out of the asterisk box itself, just to give me future flexability to move to whatever the platform of the day I want to put asterisk on, without dealing with a PCI card to move, but if the consensus is that the voice quality and support for the digium board is the best, then that's what I'll do.. So, any comments on relative quality of these devices, and/or ones I've missed? 1:Grandstream HT-488 2:Zoom 5801/5802 3:DGM-TDM02B(TDM 400P with two FXOs) Are there any IAX2 FXOs that I'm missing?That seems to be an area that's oddly not taken care of... Any hints would be greatly appreciated!Steve,I have a similar setup at home, although I am in the UK. I've got theecho fairly well under control, however it seems much less when usingmy Cisco 7960 rather than the Grandstrean BT102 phone.Have you tried dropping the gain?Have you made sure you have both cards on seperate IRQ's which are notin use by network, video etc? I disabled USB and on board audio in the BIOS to help free up IRQ's.I think your best option is the TDM400 card, or perhaps consider theSangoma card with a dual FXO module, maybe slightly cheaper!I'd be interested what SIP phones you are using and if echo differs between them.Mike___--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
you just have to run fxotune and get it to tone down the lines http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+fxotune j Kevin P. Fleming wrote: Lorentz Hinrichsen wrote: I've had very poor results with the Digium cards, I am using a couple of the new Sangoma ones now (they are cheaper and have hardware echo cancellation). Which boards are cheaper _and_ have hardware echo cancellation? ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
For phones, I've got a GS 101, a Sipura 841, and two analog phones hooked to an GS386 ATA (one phone per port). My troubles seem to be regardless of which phone is used, so I dont think it's on the phone-end of asterisk, but rather where I interface w/ Vonage and Verizon via POTS FXO... My SIP connections to the outside world have so far been good [frantically knocking on wood] I did go ahead and order the digium card yesterday evening, so I'm hopeful this will help. I had played with the gain, and was able to discern a difference, but it seemed to make some scenarios better, while making others worse, so I'm hoping the real digium card/drivers will just be smarter about handling it dynamically. Of course, my wife, who's a stay-at-home-mom is the biggest user of the system, but she's not interested in being a techy, so getting her to interrogate all callers about which number they dialed, etc.. and logging her opinions of the quality of the call hasn't worked! ;-) I also have some Cisco phones, but I haven't configured SCCP on my system yet, and dont want to use SIP on these phone (mostly to force myself to learn to configure SCCP on *) so that's another aspect that may help me after this weekend! Good point about the interrupts - I dont know the answer to that, but hopefully that'll also be a non-issue after I get the new card, and therefore have only one PCI slot handling everything. Thanks for the ideas!! -Steve From: Mike Dent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo... On 4/3/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my Asterisk (At my house - 2 modem-type fxos, and an assortment of SIP endpoints for phones) for about 5 weeks now, and I've been really happy with it, but I'm still having an echo problem that I've exhausted google with, and can't get straight... I think I've determined that because I'm using $7 voice modem clones for my FXOs that bad echo is going to just keep being a pain to me... I think I should have only tried going through proof of concept state with them, switching to something a little better quality when it was time to actually commit to Asterisk. So, my question is What's better and why: 1: a 'real' digium PCI card with two fxo plugins, or using a couple external SIP fxo units like a grandstream, zoom, or similar Personally, I think it would be desirable to keep the FXOs out of the asterisk box itself, just to give me future flexability to move to whatever the platform of the day I want to put asterisk on, without dealing with a PCI card to move, but if the consensus is that the voice quality and support for the digium board is the best, then that's what I'll do.. So, any comments on relative quality of these devices, and/or ones I've missed? 1: Grandstream HT-488 2: Zoom 5801/5802 3: DGM-TDM02B (TDM 400P with two FXOs) Are there any IAX2 FXOs that I'm missing? That seems to be an area that's oddly not taken care of... Any hints would be greatly appreciated! Steve, I have a similar setup at home, although I am in the UK. I've got the echo fairly well under control, however it seems much less when using my Cisco 7960 rather than the Grandstrean BT102 phone. Have you tried dropping the gain? Have you made sure you have both cards on seperate IRQ's which are not in use by network, video etc? I disabled USB and on board audio in the BIOS to help free up IRQ's. I think your best option is the TDM400 card, or perhaps consider the Sangoma card with a dual FXO module, maybe slightly cheaper! I'd be interested what SIP phones you are using and if echo differs between them. Mike winmail.dat___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
Steve Jones wrote: I thought the whole thing with the hardware echo cancellation is that it was basically in liu of the equivilent echo cancellation done in software... The reason to go to the hardware was for high-density systems?? For two FXOs, I thought I'd be safe in getting the non-echo cancellation cards, but perhaps no, huh?! :-( The echo cancellation issue is highly dependent on the exact pstn lines that you use. The * software EC works well in lots of implementations, however it does have limits that seem to be directly related to the delay between the time data is sent verses when the reflected energy (echo) is received. The limit seems to be somewhere in the 30 to 35 millisecond range given the tests that I've conducted using various s/w tools. In very general terms, it seems the longer the pstn copper lines between asterisk and the Central Office, the more likely software EC will not be as usable or consistent as the hardware EC. The hardware EC (from digium or sangoma) have wider limits, and those limits are different for the digium TDM2400 verses sangoma A200D. The difference between the two cards is related to the exact hardware chipset used on the two cards. (The two chipsets have very different investment/engineering costs.) It should also be noted that many telephone companies have implemented various remote line concentrators (typically seen as relatively small steal boxes in the neighborhood) that can also have an impact on echo. There are no published guidelines or guesses that would suggest if the telco has implemented A then you must use EC B. Also note that whatever worked for cards and EC in one case is not at all indicative of what will work in another case as the pstn line construction is always different. (E.g., different length of copper cable, different gauge of cable, different methods of terminating the telco side of the pstn line, different quality of cables, different manufacturers and architectures of remote concentrators, etc, etc.) In all cases, regardless of whether one is using hardware or software EC, the efficiency of the EC function is highly dependent on transmission levels. If the transmission levels are set to high, echo is going to happen regardless of what card or EC is implemented. That seems to be an issue that many asterisk newbies (as well as lots of asterisk s/w developers) do not seem to understand. So, if you were going to be selling asterisk boxes throughout your region, one might consider having an arsenal of analog products that can be selected based on each specific implementation. For short pstn lines, the TDM400 card with s/w EC seems to work well for lots of folks. For longer pstn lines where echo is not properly addressed in s/w, the TDM2400 or A200D seems to address the problem. For long pstn lines and those that have somewhat unusual echo problems, the A200D seems to address more issues then what the TDM2400 does. The above does not address analog fax support, which also enters into the engineering decision. The choice is not necessarily one of supporting digium or not; its rather an engineering decision to select the product that addresses the technical issue, period. Unfortunately, there is no reasonable way for you (or anyone else) to know in advance which product is needed to address the issue. Anyone that tries to influence you otherwise is absolutely full of BS. That's based on 20+ years doing detailed engineering work (including pbx transmission engineering) for a very large US telco, AND, been-there-done-that with asterisk over a two to three year period. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Steve Jones wrote: So, any comments on relative quality of these devices, and/or ones I've missed? 1: Grandstream HT-488 2: Zoom 5801/5802 3: DGM-TDM02B (TDM 400P with two FXOs) The zoom 58xx is unusable as FXO with asterisk at the moment. -Dan ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Frustrated with echo...
On 4/3/06, Steve Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using my Asterisk (At my house - 2 modem-type fxos, and an assortment of SIP endpoints for phones) for about 5 weeks now, and I've been really happy with it, but I'm still having an echo problem that I've exhausted google with, and can't get straight... I think I've determined that because I'm using $7 voice modem clones for my FXOs that bad echo is going to just keep being a pain to me... I think I should have only tried going through proof of concept state with them, switching to something a little better quality when it was time to actually commit to Asterisk. So, my question is What's better and why: 1: a 'real' digium PCI card with two fxo plugins, or using a couple external SIP fxo units like a grandstream, zoom, or similar Personally, I think it would be desirable to keep the FXOs out of the asterisk box itself, just to give me future flexability to move to whatever the platform of the day I want to put asterisk on, without dealing with a PCI card to move, but if the consensus is that the voice quality and support for the digium board is the best, then that's what I'll do.. So, any comments on relative quality of these devices, and/or ones I've missed? 1: Grandstream HT-488 2: Zoom 5801/5802 3: DGM-TDM02B (TDM 400P with two FXOs) Are there any IAX2 FXOs that I'm missing? That seems to be an area that's oddly not taken care of... Any hints would be greatly appreciated! Steve, I have a similar setup at home, although I am in the UK. I've got the echo fairly well under control, however it seems much less when using my Cisco 7960 rather than the Grandstrean BT102 phone. Have you tried dropping the gain? Have you made sure you have both cards on seperate IRQ's which are not in use by network, video etc? I disabled USB and on board audio in the BIOS to help free up IRQ's. I think your best option is the TDM400 card, or perhaps consider the Sangoma card with a dual FXO module, maybe slightly cheaper! I'd be interested what SIP phones you are using and if echo differs between them. Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
