Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 22:23, Darren Nickerson wrote: Folks, I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I saw the light. Please can the list admin step in and end this thread by either: a) announcing that the reply-to override has been removed b) announcing their resignation ;-) I'm sorry you saw the wrong light. You are peering into a light that will anger many more of us to the point of removing ourselves from the list as it becomes impossible to filter appropriately. Reply to group has a nasty habit of piling up addresses and then people who have dropped out of the thread are still getting barraged by messages where their address is still a part of it. It is bad enough we have users too lame to click on a link to the submission url and instead just reply and erase old content, your suggestion would just make people more likely to get nailed with unrelated content. Open source software thrives by efficient and open communications. To start suggesting people take useful commentary off list by making it less easy to reply to the list only reduces our resources. It also starts a lot of private communications and possibly private flame wars. If you post embarrassing information, or if your post embarrass you in public, maybe they didn't need to be said in the first place. Your aversion to fixing a to line when you take a message off list is not worth breaking good mail filtering. You can probably blame me for the original switch of the Reply-To header. I believe I am the one who requested it soo long ago. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list(newsubject)
The only thing I hate more than not having a proper reply-to on a mailing list (one that replies to the LIST) is the people who havn't been on the net long enough to know how mailing lists work, and their whole function. Mailing lists are communities. The primary function is to share procedures, patches, fixes, workarounds, programming knowledge, etc.. with the rest of the community. Its the rare exception that once in a great while a topic strays off and goes personal/off-list. This should happen when the community cannot benefit from the discussion, such as a private deal for equipment (which is sometimes frowned upon with lists, but sometimes enjoyed), or some basic hand-holding that goes beyond the scope of the list, and that the rest of the listmembers should know. (I.E. someone asking how to setup Linux, thus not having anything to do with Asterisk, untill they get to the point where they can install Asterisk). So, my vote is to keep the reply-to as going to the list. Also, don't hijack subjects. If you are going to use reply insted of post, at least re-write the subject line! Please direct all flames privately, where they can be properly transfered to /dev/null - - - Jon Myers Online since 1985 (I know, not longer than alot of prople, but more than a couple years). At 07:30 PM 3/21/2004 -0600, you wrote: On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 22:23, Darren Nickerson wrote: Folks, I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I saw the light. Please can the list admin step in and end this thread by either: a) announcing that the reply-to override has been removed b) announcing their resignation ;-) I'm sorry you saw the wrong light. You are peering into a light that will anger many more of us to the point of removing ourselves from the list as it becomes impossible to filter appropriately. Reply to group has a nasty habit of piling up addresses and then people who have dropped out of the thread are still getting barraged by messages where their address is still a part of it. It is bad enough we have users too lame to click on a link to the submission url and instead just reply and erase old content, your suggestion would just make people more likely to get nailed with unrelated content. Open source software thrives by efficient and open communications. To start suggesting people take useful commentary off list by making it less easy to reply to the list only reduces our resources. It also starts a lot of private communications and possibly private flame wars. If you post embarrassing information, or if your post embarrass you in public, maybe they didn't need to be said in the first place. Your aversion to fixing a to line when you take a message off list is not worth breaking good mail filtering. You can probably blame me for the original switch of the Reply-To header. I believe I am the one who requested it soo long ago. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list(newsubject)
Strongly Agree :) WW - Original Message Follows - The only thing I hate more than not having a proper reply-to on a mailing list (one that replies to the LIST) is the people who havn't been on the net long enough to know how mailing lists work, and their whole function. Mailing lists are communities. The primary function is to share procedures, patches, fixes, workarounds, programming knowledge, etc.. with the rest of the community. Its the rare exception that once in a great while a topic strays off and goes personal/off-list. This should happen when the community cannot benefit from the discussion, such as a private deal for equipment (which is sometimes frowned upon with lists, but sometimes enjoyed), or some basic hand-holding that goes beyond the scope of the list, and that the rest of the listmembers should know. (I.E. someone asking how to setup Linux, thus not having anything to do with Asterisk, untill they get to the point where they can install Asterisk). So, my vote is to keep the reply-to as going to the list. Also, don't hijack subjects. If you are going to use reply insted of post, at least re-write the subject line! Please direct all flames privately, where they can be properly transfered to /dev/null - - - Jon Myers Online since 1985 (I know, not longer than alot of prople, but more than a couple years). At 07:30 PM 3/21/2004 -0600, you wrote: On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 22:23, Darren Nickerson wrote: Folks, I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I saw the light. Please can the list admin step in and end this thread by either: a) announcing that the reply-to override has been removed b) announcing their resignation ;-) I'm sorry you saw the wrong light. You are peering into a light that will anger many more of us to the point of removing ourselves from the list as it becomes impossible to filter appropriately. Reply to group has a nasty habit of piling up addresses and then people who have dropped out of the thread are still getting barraged by messages where their address is still a part of it. It is bad enough we have users too lame to click on a link to the submission url and instead just reply and erase old content, your suggestion would just make people more likely to get nailed with unrelated content. Open source software thrives by efficient and open communications. To start suggesting people take useful commentary off list by making it less easy to reply to the list only reduces our resources. It also starts a lot of private communications and possibly private flame wars. If you post embarrassing information, or if your post embarrass you in public, maybe they didn't need to be said in the first place. Your aversion to fixing a to line when you take a message off list is not worth breaking good mail filtering. You can probably blame me for the original switch of the Reply-To header. I believe I am the one who requested it soo long ago. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Willy Wouters ypOne Publishing ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list(newsubject)
On Sun, 2004-03-21 at 20:48, Jon Myers wrote: Online since 1985 (I know, not longer than alot of prople, but more than a couple years). But apparently not long enough to know that top posting and not trimming quotes are both just as bad as reply-to-sender. ;-) dk ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
G'day Darren, On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Darren Nickerson wrote: I give people much more credit than you do, as does the author of that essay. So do most experienced list-owners out there. Anyone who wants a post to go to the list will use the 'reply all' feature of their mailer. They'll understand that they're doing this, they'll know why they're posting it to the whole list, and they'll probably also expect their post to be reflected back to them from the list and go hunting for it if it's not. You give too much credit to people, indeed. I cannot say about this list, but most lists I use have high corporate populations, where the users *have* to use mailers like Outlook or (cringe) Notes. For mailing list admins to expect users of these mailers to try and find the functions referred to in the article is ludicrous (and yes, I know I just said in a prior note use the function of your mailer, but I was referring to the standard Reply function -- if you have ever tried to use a mailing list with Lotus Notes you will bless the list admin who maintains the status-quo and munges Reply-to). Some very compelling arguments are very clearly explained in the essay I pointed you to, and replying with use your mail filters or unsubscribe is not a very productive response (even if it COULD fix the problem). Nor is List owner, action my request or resign ;-) I did read the article you pointed to, and neither you or the article's author have convinced me that this is a good thing. When the entire world is using My Favourite Mailer, let's talk again. Until then, let's stick with what works for -- and is understood by -- the vast majority of people. Cheers, Vic Cross ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
Darren Nickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: Every mail list I subscribe to works in the same way, and every single one has had the requisite 1.5 users moaning about the reply-To header. It's not difficult - either reply to the list (the default, and rightly so) or, if you feel the need to reply privately, modify the To address. -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/[EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
Kevin Walsh wrote: Darren Nickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: Every mail list I subscribe to works in the same way, and every single one has had the requisite 1.5 users moaning about the reply-To header. It's not difficult - either reply to the list (the default, and rightly so) or, if you feel the need to reply privately, modify the To address. Or just use the ``Reply All'' feature. I hate to keep a dead topic alive, but mailman has a neat setting that prevents you from getting duplicate emails across multiple lists _and_ if your address is also in the to/cc. Really, this is a user issue, not a software/software settings issue. Learn to use your mail client and your settings or don't use lists. I don't mean to come across harshly and this is directed towards nobody in particular. --Devon ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 11:23:53PM -0500, Darren Nickerson wrote: I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. I would agree with this too, when replying to a post, the reply should be to the sender, if the receipient wants to reply to everyone, then they should specifically request that. Most sensible mail user agents have mechanisms for specificially replying to lists. Also mail addresses from this list are being SPAM harvested (just FYI). Steve -- NetTek Ltd Phone/Fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455 SMS steve-epage (at) gbnet.net [body] gpg 1024D/468952DB 2001-09-19 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
You give too much credit to people, indeed. I cannot say about this list, but most lists I use have high corporate populations, where the users *have* to use mailers like Outlook or (cringe) Notes. Outlook and Outlook express implement Reply, and Reply All, which works well without needing reply-to munging. Some very compelling arguments are very clearly explained in the essay I pointed you to, and replying with use your mail filters or unsubscribe is not a very productive response (even if it COULD fix the problem). Nor is List owner, action my request or resign ;-) I agree ... that was very much tongue in cheek, and the smiley was there. I did read the article you pointed to, and neither you or the article's author have convinced me that this is a good thing. You don't have to agree with us. Thanks for reading it, at least! When the entire world is using My Favourite Mailer, let's talk again. Until then, let's stick with what works for -- and is understood by -- the vast majority of people. While I don't agree that the convention of this list reflects the vast majority of well-run mailing lists, and I contend that it is counter to what is understood by the majority, I am happy to let the thread die. -Darren -- Darren Nickerson Senior Sales Support Engineer iFAX Solutions, Inc. www.ifax.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.215.438.4638 ext 8106 office +1.215.243.8335 fax ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/20/2004 02:58:21 AM: You give too much credit to people, indeed. I cannot say about this list, but most lists I use have high corporate populations, where the users *have* to use mailers like Outlook or (cringe) Notes. For mailing list admins to expect users of these mailers to try and find the functions referred to in the article is ludicrous (and yes, I know I just said in a prior note use the function of your mailer, but I was referring to the standard Reply function -- if you have ever tried to use a mailing list with Lotus Notes you will bless the list admin who maintains the status-quo and munges Reply-to). It's odd: I use Lotus Notes, and while I prefer the current Reply-to action, having to click the Reply To All button right next to the Reply To button is not exactly a hardship... I do miss the way my old mailer (PM Mail 2000) prompted to either Reply to one or all, but Notes doesn't exactly make it hard.. Way off-topic, I know, but I had to defend Notes! :) Tim Massey ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
Folks, I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I saw the light. Please can the list admin step in and end this thread by either: a) announcing that the reply-to override has been removed b) announcing their resignation ;-) -Darren -- Darren Nickerson Senior Sales Support Engineer iFAX Solutions, Inc. www.ifax.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.215.438.4638 ext 8106 office +1.215.243.8335 fax ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
Removing the reply to all is a bad idea, How are you going to be able to tell someone to search the list, if they don't reply to the list. People will answer the same questions over and over again, use your mail software and write some filters, or remove yourself from this list, and use the IRC room. Michael On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Darren Nickerson wrote: Folks, I strongly support removing the current reply-to-list setting, and you should too. Like many new list admins, I once thought the reply-to was kewel. Requests to remove it kept coming up, ... usually around the same time someone embarrassed themselves by posting a personal reply/flame to the list. Someone, in frustration, finally pointed me to the following URL: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I saw the light. Please can the list admin step in and end this thread by either: a) announcing that the reply-to override has been removed b) announcing their resignation ;-) -Darren ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Important: The Asterisk Mailing list (newsubject)
Removing the reply to all is a bad idea, How are you going to be able to tell someone to search the list, if they don't reply to the list. People will answer the same questions over and over again, use your mail software and write some filters, or remove yourself from this list, and use the IRC room. Michael, Thanks for your reply. If you disagree with the arguments outlined in the URL I posted, please tell us why. From your reply, it almost seems like you didn't read it. Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting I can somehow design a mail filter that will magically filter out all of the accidental (and often embarrassing) posts to the mailing list. I can't, and neither can you - there's no heuristic or algorithm that can know this. Besides, we should not have to. I give people much more credit than you do, as does the author of that essay. So do most experienced list-owners out there. Anyone who wants a post to go to the list will use the 'reply all' feature of their mailer. They'll understand that they're doing this, they'll know why they're posting it to the whole list, and they'll probably also expect their post to be reflected back to them from the list and go hunting for it if it's not. Some very compelling arguments are very clearly explained in the essay I pointed you to, and replying with use your mail filters or unsubscribe is not a very productive response (even if it COULD fix the problem). -Darren -- Darren Nickerson Senior Sales Support Engineer iFAX Solutions, Inc. www.ifax.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.215.438.4638 ext 8106 office +1.215.243.8335 fax ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
