Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
2020-12-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Juliantheaudiogamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? As the previous poster said, there are, unexpectedly, many great posts in this topic, esepcially @57 gave me a lot to think about.This is how you turn a seemingly negative topic into a positive direction! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/600126/#p600126 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? This could have turned out to be such a negative topic, but I feel like the subsequent posts were actually interesting, and a joy to read, for the most part. I thank you all for not creating more drama, and giving me an interesting read, when I can't sleep. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/600067/#p600067 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Yeah, so the thing with blind people is that you're either submissive or aggressive, and it's rare to find someone in the middle. There's a lot of extremes in blindness land. The unrealistic hopes you can do anything. The "god will fix it all" and "there is a purpose to my blindness". The "I am blind, therefore I am helpless". The "I'm desperate for friends so I'll hang out with anyone, now I'm stuck in this horrible relationship with 6 kids" (not that that one happens here a lot, but I swear that you walk out a couple steps on my social graph and that's a very common one). The "I rock back and forth, flap my arms like a bird" guy. The "I will be an insert-profession-blind-people-can't-do" guy. The NFB crowd, which tends to believe that if you aren't doing everything yourself life isn't worth living, nevermind that spending twice as long on everything doesn't leave you much life to live crowd. You will find, if you look and actually have a baseline for normal person, that it's very hard to find normal blind people that don't somehow have blindness at the core of their identity.Also, overcompensating for the lack of eye contact isn't helping because it's probably super obvious that you're overcompensating.A lot of people in this thread are either saying or intimating that they overcompensate in one way or another. That's hurting your cause. Intentional, blatant overcompensation will come across as not genuine. Ever seen one of those really low budget TV shows with incredibly terrible actors? Overcompensating comes out like that. Your best bet is to care about the things you can change, and own the ones you can't. It doesn't matter whether you can make eye contact or whatever as long as you've not got your head down on the table, are facing people, generally seem sane, and are relaxed and engaging in what's going on.As for why blind people are submissive, that's simple: if you're put into the blindness corner and everything is done for you since you were born, and now you're 18 or 20 or whatever and that's still the case, you don't know any different. When the world finally says "haha, you thought this could last forever" or you otherwise realize that you've got to do something about it, it's a big shock to the system that most people have a lot of trouble with.Yes, I've put a lot of thought into this stuff over the years. I got lucky. I've got family issues, but they went out of their way to manufacture experiences when I was young--I've even been in a plane cockpit, not that you could do that after 9/11, suffice it to say this was very much before. We got me the O skills young, explicitly worked on not stimming, and so on. I've got my oddities, but there's nothing like trying to figure out why all the other blind people are so different only to realize you're the different one to provoke a lot of thought about this stuff. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599644/#p599644 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? I wear sunglasses at the dentist's office. No lie. That fucking light they use kills my eyes. If bright light makes your eyes hurt, then fuck everyone else if they can't accept that you need those sunglasses in order to do your job. That's how I see it, anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599641/#p599641 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Re: wearing sunglasses, the only times I've done that while indoors were on a few recent occasions at my job where I'm encountering a lot of bright light, which I'm quite sensitive to. I did so reluctantly, and, in fact, it took me years to be comfortable enough to wear them even while outside, because I was well aware of the stereotypes surrounding such an action, and didn't want to contribute to people having images of a blind person wearing sunglasses all the time be confirmed as gospel in their minds. Eventually, as I began travelling independently more, I realized that, if I'm not worrying about how much the sun, or any bright light, is bothering my eyes, I can get around much more efficiently. I really, really don't like wearing sunglasses indoors, but again, if it makes the difference between me being able to complete my job tasks vs. ending up developing a raging headache, and not having to constantly squint in order to block out most of the light, which, I imagine, looks even weirder than just wearing the damn glasses, I'll do it. Luckily, I can count the number of times I've absolutely had to do it on one hand. These days, I'm working in an area where this isn't a huge problem most of the time, and, more often than not, if I do start to have issues, I'll just buckle down and deal because most people have to cope with a lot of shit in their professional lives that they otherwise wouldn't tolerate.As for making eye contact, being blind all my life, combined with nystagmus, makes this impossible for me as well. I was taught from a very young age to face the direction of your conversation partner, complete with sticker charts and all that to reward any time I did it on my own, so it comes naturally for me to do it. On the other hand, I've definitely internalized some messages about how important eye contact is. My parents, especially, have made many offhand comments about how a person isn't trustworthy if you can't look into their eyes. If they won't look at you, they're shady, lying, and up to no good. I don't know if they ever realized how insensitive they were being by making such comments in front of me--my guess is, given their track record in regards to dealing with the emotions of others, they never will--but I've definitely had a running commentary in the back of my mind, each and every time I have an interaction with a sighted person, that goes something like: "Does this person think I'm going to harm them? Do I come off as not genuine? How can I overcompensate for my lack of eye contact so they'll understand that I'm at least trying my best to be a good person?" Having social anxiety doesn't help with those kinds of thoughts, either. I mean, there are a lot of things you can do to tamp down anxiety in the moment, or learn to build social skills over time, but that's something I'll never be able to control.I had also never considered that blind people were more submissive in general, but I suppose that makes sense. I know I can be, but again, I always chalked it up to anxiety and/or having been deprived of a lot of the social rites of passage, if you will, which come along with growing up. Not everybody has to be loud, in your face, and bold to be successful. In my own experience, I've actually encountered far more blind people who sit squarely on that end of the spectrum, being overly aggressive and demanding when they didn't get their way, or expecting the world to cater to them because they're blind, dammit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599635/#p599635 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @52It's sort of a pointless topic in the sense that if I had come in earlier and pointed out the things, everyone would probably have gotten mad. But in my experience blind communities do actually have weird drama all the time, and it's always like grown men turning out to have the emotional competence of 15 year olds, not in the sense of lacking self-control but in the sense of not knowing how to react in the first place, or to avoid bad interpersonal relationships, or abusive relationships, or so on and so forth. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599603/#p599603 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? I don't have the balls to speak up for myself. Because anytime I do, I am just ignored. My voice isn't the manly scary voice. I have more of a female personality, and my voice is very quiet and shy when I am around sighted people. I also tend to say a lot of inappropriate things in general, no matter who I am around. That doesn't sound like a habit I would have, but I've proved myself wrong on way too many occasions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599596/#p599596 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Theirs drama in all types of community, the deaf, the blind, the sighted gamers, the sighted who don't play game, in the politition community, all over the fucken place. Its not just here dude, its nothing special. pointless topic really URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599586/#p599586 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? GrannyCheeseWheel wrote:It's not all that savage, people should be educated. When they can go their entire lives without ever encountering a blind person, or someone with a disability (that they know of), then they get into the trap of not knowing how to act around them. Generally, the answer is, act the way you would around anyone else, but ask if you think they need help rather than assuming.This type of thing will stick with them more than just acting submissive, which serves no purpose. After that was done and she acknowledged the fact, he was OK with erh and talked to her. That'll stick where other forms might not.The next time she encounters someone with an obvious disability, maybe she'll assume they can speak up for themselves rather than that they can't.lol I ment it in a good way. and I was referring to the first time. with the fare URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599579/#p599579 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? mimimimimimimimi URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599576/#p599576 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
2020-12-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : sightlessHorseman via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Regarding the glasses talked about earlier, I honestly don't see the need to wear glasses. Yes, my left I is smaller in comparison to my right one and has a reddish hue to it, but nothing really major where i would think about hiding it. People will stare at you anyway when you are walking through a public place with your cane or a guide dog, so I don't care either way. If you are of the mindset that I have to hide my eyes before you can interact with me, go back under the rok you have been living your quiet life before.I will wear glasses if they have any bonus to me, something like the invision glasses or any other smart glass when they are useful for blind people. Else, I just walk around normally.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599573/#p599573 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @42 you're fortunate to live in a country where people are forward enough to ask. Here in Europe, especially in a conservative country like Austria, nobody asks anything because everyone wants to be polite all the fucking time. They'd rather just move on, then make their own assumtions about you, and if they don't like what they saw, they'll talk about you behind your back. I've heard things are different in the Americas, people tend to be a lot more forward when it comes to asking things they may feel are contravertial or embarrassing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599572/#p599572 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
2020-12-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? It's not all that savage, people should be educated. When they can go their entire lives without ever encountering a blind person, or someone with a disability (that they know of), then they get into the trap of not knowing how to act around them. Generally, the answer is, act the way you would around anyone else, but ask if you think they need help rather than assuming.This type of thing will stick with them more than just acting submissive, which serves no purpose. After that was done and she acknowledged the fact, he was OK with erh and talked to her. That'll stick where other forms might not.The next time she encounters someone with an obvious disability, maybe she'll assume they can speak up for themselves rather than that they can't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599567/#p599567 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @45, savage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599563/#p599563 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? I had that happen once...not at the dentist though. I think it was at a fair with my family. I was nine or ten, and my mom was ordering ride tickets, and the woman, with no provocation or reason, asked if I was "retarded". So I stepped up beside my mom, stuck my face down toward the slot in the front of the booth, and sort of half-shouted, "No, I'm not retarded. I'm blind. And you're an idiot for asking that. What's wrong with you?"To be clear, I knew that mental impairment wasn't part of their ethos or business model in any way. They would let my parents ride with me for free because I had a disability, full stop; it wasn't predicated on whether or not the disability was physical or mental. So I knew that woman had no business asking if I was "retarded". And I wasn't doing anything weird except talk a lot (to my brother, not my mom). I was excited, sure, but I was fucking ten!I've also had to do that thing in restaurants where you make wait staff uncomfortable when they've done something stupid. Normally I hate doing this, but in certain cases I think it's at least somewhat appropriate.Example: I'm out with a few friends and we're all sat around a table at a pub (this actually happened last year). All of these friends are over the age of thirty. This pub had no braille menu, and I'd never been there before, so one of my friends was reading bits of the menu to me. I could've fucked around on my phone and done it, I suppose, but this was quicker and everyone was happy with it. So the server came back after giving us some water and started asking for our various orders. When she got to me, she said to my friend (who happened to be an ex of mine, by the way), "What will he have?", obviously indicating me in some fashion. So I said, "He can talk, you know. He'll have the Canadian burger, no pickles please, and no tomato if it comes with that. Side Caesar instead of fries, if that's possible." The server stammered an apology, to which I replied, "Please, next time just ask me directly instead of assuming I can't speak for myself." Everything after that was perfectly fine, and I made a point to make small talk with the server when she came back to check on us. Because while I am willing to make someone squirm a little if they fuck up, I'm also willing to let it go once it's been acknowledged. She apologized for doing it, so that's an end to it. Shouldn't have happened, but I'm not a jerk. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599560/#p599560 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? I know the tone of voice, but nothing beats the motorcycle, which is a joke that always makes people laugh. It's an extra special sort of fun when even physician assistants think that how you guide a blind person is you grab their shoulders like bicycle handles and push...Fortunately much less of a problem out here in Seattle, which overall has a much better handle on such things. But I swear, in Florida... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599559/#p599559 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? 38: Yeah, that not-so-PC word is one I have encountered for "Blind person no do normal thing; must dumb?" reasons. Like, I was at the dentist, and the nurse was trying to make small-talk (you know the tone-of-voice, I'm sure). Apparently my reaction was less than satisfactory, because she then turns to my stepmother and mouths (while still audible enough that I could understand it) "Is he retarded?" I want to think I was 14 at the time, but this might have been when I first got to college and a new/different nurse?So that was fun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599557/#p599557 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @40, Trinidadian blindie thing also. Pretty much every blind Trinidadian has one on. Also, our neighbour who was a therapist in the U advised I wear a pair at one point but I never bothered. Her justification was well, my eyes are unique, IE the african boy with blue eyes, so therefore people would pay more attension to my eyes than the rest of me, ie, my movements, etc. @38, see the problem I have here is generally folks don't know I have an eye problem because well, I act like a sighted person. People generally don't know. Like, they have a feeling that something is wrong, but they generally don't know. That's my fault though, moving with my cane more often should help with that problem, but then the annoying thing is people being like oh, have you gone completely? And I'm noot up for answering the questions.That being said though, I use it when I'mm out of the city, like in school, where I'm not really known, so not big deal. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599540/#p599540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? yeah. I have literally never met a blind person before now who feels the need to wear sunglasses because of this. I would consider whether or not the people who advised that understand the actual problems, or if they were just incompetent in this regard and pushed their incompetent ideas onto you.Now, if your eyes are, like, I dunno, giant swollen cavities that expose the bone of your skull to onlookers, sure, fine. Sunglasses, or better yet fake eyes. Otherwise, you're probably just hurting your cause. Lots of sighted people have trouble with this even--almost anyone on the autism spectrum for instance--so it's not like it's *that* big a deal that you're not focusing your eyes on them.I'm not saying you are this, I'm just saying what I hear. But when I hear "I wear sunglasses because..." I hear security blanket and insecurities. Here's the thing. That sort of insecurity is probably coming out in your body language. Getting over it, being able to go out with an attitude of "I'm blind, so what?", will do *way* more to help your cause than anything, and especially being that weird person with sunglasses in an environment where they're totally inappropriate, AKA every indoor building in the history of buildings. Let me put it this way. You making eye contact wrong shows to the people you're talking to right now. Wearing sunglasses shows to people all the way on the other side of the restaurant or classroom or whatever. SO you're trading off "my eye contact is weird, but I'm getting a pass because blindness" for "the entire room knows something is up". That's not a good trade. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599531/#p599531 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? That may be a European thing more than anything else. The only other people I've heard this sunglasses thing from were European. I am totally -not picking on your culture here, nor on Europeans in general, but Canlorn is right about wearing sunglasses inside. I do not wear sunglasses, period, and this is part of the reason why. The other part is very simple. You don't like that my eyes are deep-set, can't focus and whatnot? Then don't fucking stare at them. It's not my fault, and you know that, so do the work. And guess what? I'm thirty-seven, and I don't get a lot of flak about my eyes, even though they're weird. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599530/#p599530 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? That's the thing though. Everyone I've spoken to in the past, blind or not, said something like "wearing glasses inside might be weird, but it's better than keeping your eyes exposed because they jump around so much, and it subconciously unnerves people you communicate with." I wouldn't dream of performing without glasses, for instance. I already have an inferiority complex that's gotten so bad over the years it's probably starting to be detrimental to my well-being, and putting them on, at least when I perform, helps a little. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599527/#p599527 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? My eyes don't focus on people. Apart from being mistaken for autistic because of this on a few occasions, no one cares. I suspect you're wearing sunglasses inside. I promise that that's weirder. You want to work on not screaming "hi, I am blind!", not hide behind sunglasses because somewhere along the way you decided people thought the eyes were weird.The eyes are the one and only thing on which we get a pass. Even the most dense sighted person is going to immediately understand that eye contact is weird because you're blind and the incredibly tiny minority of people who won't give you this pass aren't going to give you a pass no matter what. The other stuff--fidgeting for instance--is harder, because it's not obvious why blind people would need to self-stim, or why blind people don't understand that they shouldn't jump up and down when they feel emotion, or flap their arms, or rock, or... Those things aren't obvious blindness things, so instead of being "he's blind" it turns into "he's weird, avoid the retard" Yes, I know retard is politically incorrect these days, but it's the attitude people have in their heads when this happens and exactly how they're thinking about it.The best things you can do are learn to get the social signals that aren't eyes right and learn to be confident in your skin. Things like not putting your head down and facing people and avoiding being on your phone without headphones and stuff are 50% of the battle. The other 50% is not acting timid and submissive. Initially that sort of confidence will be an act (or at least it was for me, a long time ago). Then you wake up one day and it's not an act anymore. It's actually kind of weird to say, but if you get the social signals right, you can be perceived as the cool blind person who shows up on their own to stuff or whatever. Yeah, the inspirational figure overtones aren't always so great, but before covid I had a couple groups of casual acquaintances that I could hang out with because I was perceived that way and "can you meet me at the door and help me get to the right place" consequently always had a positive response.I never thought I'd quote hitchhiker's guide to make a point, but just replace towel with "mostly sends the right signals" in the following and you have exactly what social skills are, at least for us:More importantly, a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag discovers that a hitchhiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, washcloth, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet-weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitchhiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitchhiker might accidentally have "lost." What the strag will think is that any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still knows where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.Thing is, as soon as you get this right, you're the blind person who must have their act together way more than all the sighted people in the room because wow, doing it all while blind. That's obviously not at all the case, but social interaction isn't about fact, it's a weird mix between lying-but-not-lying (the official term is social signalling) and putting on your "I can participate in society" face. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599518/#p599518 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? I wear sunglasses when I'm in public. I've been told it gives sighted people something to focus on that doesn't move around too much, something they can hold eye-contact with that isn't creepy as fuck. My pair broak a few days ago, and I'm getting new ones tomorrow, but it's gotten to a point where any social interaction I have with a sighted person feels way too awquard for me. I just don't know enough to figure out how other people are taking this. I can't read people purely on their tone of voice. it's gotten a tiny bit better over the last few years but it doesn't stop me from acting like a fool in a lot of situations. Until recently I thought I was about two years behind what is usual for my age when it comes to social development, but now I just can't say anymore. I try to learn from the past concerning these matters but I seem incapable of acting better in similar situations whenever they come up. And it pisses me off because if things continue like they are, I'll never find anything like a sighted peer circle. Covid is also a factor here. I moved to a larger city this year precisely to be more able to attend events, go out, etc. Without having to rely on car transport, and now Covid's destroyed everything because nothing's allowed to open. Give it a few more years and I'll have turned into the very thing I've been wanting to avoid ever since I became aware of the rift between sighted, integrated blind, and blinky blind. And in the end, I may end up having nothing. No communities in the fully sighted, no freak tt blindy communities URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599502/#p599502 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? lol my social skills suks balls. rfl URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599501/#p599501 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Just in case anyone's getting the wrong impression: I, too, went to mainstream school. I became aggressively iconoclastic and everyone just tried to dismiss it with "he's blind." I actually got sent to a school for the blind one summer because the Adults® thought that would make me more normal (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!).Then I spent the last two years at a Math and Science School, and then died. I mean, graduated. Those are basically the same thing, right? Anyway, I was so disfunctional in college that someone hooked me up with a speech pathologist two years in. I got to use a Halloween tape I made when I was 6 as part of the sound track for a Halloween party they decided to throw for some reason?[1] Actually, that was the first thing I'd ever recorded. And it only took 15 years to see use. ... OK, I used it in a Podcast before that, but like two people listened to that, so does that count?Anyway, apparently that "helped" enough that someone at LCB managed to act surprised when I criticized my social skills. I'm not sure why. Surely she noticed that literally everyone else almost never said anything about me other than how little I talk compared to everyone else... But maybe that's because of I haven't really felt like blind people have terrible social skills, but that's mostly because I'm comparing all y'all to my even-worse social skills, I guess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599497/#p599497 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @33, you wouldn't believe how much info eyes can give to people. Like, literally, my family can just look at each other and convay messages based on their look, face, and other bodily cues. Oh, and Jayde, check your pm, its super minor, so don't beat up URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599428/#p599428 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? There are extremely good reasons why I don't get into big skype groups full of blind people, and good reasons why I've never really wanted to visit an NFB convention or be in a huge discord chat. Just...ugh. Some of you may remember a site called the Zone BBS. It died a few years back. About a decade ago, they had a phone service where you could use virtual chatrooms (or conferences, as they were called), and it was there that I got treated to some exceedingly obnoxious stuff from blind folks. To be clear here, this isn't the sort of thing my sighted friends and I did, even as teenagers, and some of these folks were adults. Man, it does my head in.My own eyes do not focus properly, as I have been blind since birth. I can't do eye contact, but I think in a way that it's easier for me because I'm not expected to. In fact, I've even been told a time or two that my lack of eye contact makes people feel more at ease. If their own gaze wanders, for instance, they don't feel judged or scrutinized. What I don't tell these people is that they're usually doing more than look around, and I can usually catch it. Their vocal pitch will change, or their speech speed will alter. Body language changes; they'll shuffle, squirm, start fiddling with things. Point is, I recognize a lot more than they might think, and it's rarely just eye contact that tells the tale. I think society has come to emphasize eye contact to a serious extent. And hey, there's no doubt that it's handy as hell. For instance, if you and your partner are in a large room, you can lock eyes across a thirty-foot space and convey rudimentary communication. "You okay?" "I wanna get out of here". Basic shit like that. But there's a lot of effort put on it, one way and another. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599418/#p599418 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Hmm, Generally I've been told I handle body actions and general demeanor ffine, but my problem stems with eye contact. I have really bad nistagmas, and even though I'm looking in the direction of someone's eyes, because they move so much its hard for others to recognise, plus, I generally developed where I keep my head downward, because of glaire and it feels more comfoortable, that way. But it was so bad this really wealthy woman yelled at me because I wasn't looking at her in her eyes, so yeah. But alot of blindie cues baffle me also, blowing in the mic is something I only do but just to troll, blind people seem to be obsessed with music, not really my thing, tts spam I do, but I don't live and breathe it like some peoople, speaking like a tts, is strange, and weird, hands down, and I don't get the obsession with blue yetis. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599416/#p599416 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @camlorn, 26, sadly, my parents left me to my own devices pretty much from the moment I got up and started walking. That I was able to do anything akin to social goodness is, well... I see myself as fortunate in this regard. I thank my elementary school teachers for all their patience. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599408/#p599408 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
2020-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? The Social thing I have the most trouble with is eye contact... I can not... stand that shit. It's like... so fucking creepy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599405/#p599405 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @28 well written and said again. +1 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599394/#p599394 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? I, too, went to mainstream school, and it helped. My social skills aren't perfect (I feel like I'm probably in the camp of folks like Canlorn, who get it right more than they don't but aren't wholly immune to the traps blind folks fall into) but on the whole, I've been told I do well. I have a pretty honest social circle, most of which is made up of sighted folks I'd trust to kick my ass if I was doing something unacceptable, and it rarely comes up.Like you, Nocturnis, I often find myself feeling judgmental about certain behaviours I come across in communities like this. Anyaudio? Cringe cringe fucking cringe for like 98% of those videos. I can't help that feeling. I just don't go out of my way to blast the people who made those clips, because why bother? Everyone has their own thing, I guess.In my social work program, I was taught a great deal about things like body language. For instance, if you're conversing with someone and it's just an average conversation where you're not overly pissed off or excited or scared, put your shoulders back, put your feet on the floor (or curl up, if that's your thing, I do that a lot, believe it or not) and make sure to turn your head such that you're more or less facing that person head-on. Note: don't sit cross-legged in a job interview or anything, but if you're on your friend's couch with your shoes off and it's socially permissible in that setting, go nuts). Don't hunch forward, constantly tap things, bob your head or toy with your hands, hair or clothing. This will give the impression that you're restless or upset, or straight-up bored, and unless you -are one of those things, that's not an impression you want to be giving, especially when it can be so easily misinterpreted. Nobody, absolutely nobody, gets this right every time, by the way, so while it's good to pay attention to it, don't sweat it if you're not perfect.Nocturnis, a very gentle piece of advice, if I may:You mention the scenario that happens to you almost daily, where your wife sounds exhausted or wrung out, and you ask if she's mad at you. First of all, you have taken the first and biggest step in realizing that asking this question over and over is a problem. You got there, so go a little further. It's natural to hear that tone of voice and, because you're under stress, get that shivery little sinking feeling in your gut that says, "Aww shit, this time something's wrong". You may not be able to stop that feeling, but there are specifically better ways to deal with it. The most straightforward of these is just this: when you hear your wife's voice sound harried and impatient, stop. Pause. Give yourself a moment to ask yourself if she has genuine reason to be upset with you. If she does, then you can address that. But if she doesn't, you can make the safe bet that she only sounds this way because she's tired, in pain or just plain done with whatever she's dealing with. You seem to know most of this already, so good on you. Now, in practical terms, when she sounds like this, it's okay to bring it up if you think it's necessary, but rather than ask, "you mad at me?", ask "is there anything I can do to help?", or even more simply, "You doing okay?" Or, if you don't want to ask the question because you know the answer, and the answer is "nothing", and it will just depress you both and make you both feel helpless, tell her that you love her. Tell her something affirmative, even if it's simple. Tell her that you're going to get through this together. Tell her that it's going to get better.I won't go into a lot of specifics on this, but my partner had a lot of mental health issues. She often sounded kind of ticked off even when she wasn't (I don't mean boiling with rage here, just...sort of vexed all the time). At first I did ask a lot if she was upset with me, but one day she came straight out and told me that if she was upset, she'd tell me. After that, I sort of gave myself a shake, and when I'd hear that tone creeping into her voice, I'd just try and support her. "Hey, we're gonna do this one day at a time, okay?" or "I just want you to know that I think you're tough as hell. No, seriously. I could not do what you're doing right now, so you should be proud of that." Or I'd try to make her laugh. My relationship ultimately didn't work - I'm still wrestling with that - but our communication absolutely was not the reason.All this is a far cry from talk of drama. But there is often a serious disconnect between what people experience online and what they experience in person. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599381/#p599381 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @23 and 24, thumbs up to both of you for putting things much more eloquently than I can. As someone who went to mainstream schools from beginning to end and was lucky enough to be conected with the right people at the right time, I also escaped some of the more obvious quirks. But there is definitely work to do, and the limbo feeling of being caught in between both worlds is one I know well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599329/#p599329 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @24You can explicitly work on fitting in, which my parents helped with when I was young. It's very hard to articulate how, but just facing people when they talk, being still, and learning how to figure out how loudly you need to talk go a very long way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599295/#p599295 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
2020-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Juliantheaudiogamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @16: Huge thumbs up from me as well.@20: Good devs? Which good and active audiogame devs come to your mind except for Aprone and Purple Jam? Liam seems to enjoy streaming/let's playing more than coding these days, Sam is inactive and Out Of Sight Games seem to have vanished. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599292/#p599292 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @camlorn, 23, another good read. I myself went to mainstream school from beginning to end and because I was fortunate enough to score sighted friends I escaped some of the harder quirks to get rid of. Today though, that almost leaves me acting judgmental toward many in blind communities though I don't mean to... I can't help but feel somewhat disappointed/awkwardly uncomfortable when people start immitating SAPI voices or loudly toying with assistive technology in majorly sighted settings, as if this is their identity/what makes them who they are and what they are and there's nothing else in the way of depth to such people. The NFB conventions are yet another thing I have never gone to for that very reason... I guess that's the other side of the coin.?But no, even here I fell short... I couldn't always look the part. My favorite music was metal, but the metalheads generally stayed away from me... I couldn't convincingly look the part... I guess. It kind of left me in limbo with the smart kids who all dressed in fashionable clothing, all of them wondering why on earth I listened to such antisocial garbage rather than going for the ultra cool pop stuff of the hour. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599290/#p599290 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Ok, so going to point out unpopular stuff. Blind people tend to be undersocialized, which means thin skinned and lacking social discipline, both of which come from socializing as a kid (or consciously working on it later). As Jayde points out, most blind people aren't really super aware of social queues, and critically the fact that what they send matters as much as not being able to read them, which means that being the blind weirdo extends well into adulthood, magnifying the problem even more. Blind people tend to cling to unrealistic hope, and anything that punctures that causes outrage because facing blindness is hard. Blind people tend to be undereducated, by which I mean not finishing high school and/or getting a free pass on things, but that's where you learn critical thinking skills and how to evaluate evidence. Don't get me wrong, schools teach those skills much less than they should, but being blind is a great way to skip past them.The results I see from this are twofold: blind people almost universally argue and form beliefs at an emotional level, not a logical one. And blind people tend to have simplified ethical frameworks. I'm not saying that blind people aren't ethical, only that when you get into ethical gray areas, blind people tend not to have as good of a toolbox for dealing with it, because those sorts of things also come from being socialized, especially as a kid, and made to develop critical thinking skills, etc.Put all this together, and blind people circles have drama. It's not just audiogames.net, it's every blindness circle I've been involved in, and it's always the same themes.Lest people think that I'm saying I'm immune, I'm not; one of the weirder realizations of my life is that I was also behind on the socialization. Less than most, but enough that I would call where I was at 22 as equivalent to where most people are at 18; being blind means a *lot* less opportunities for self-discovery and things like it, which is yet another place where, let's call it being worldly, comes from.@20When it comes to whether or not the quality of games has declined, that depends a lot on your perspective. You will find that as you play more games, you raise your standard--but the quality of what we have doesn't raise with it.I'm not saying there's not some truth to it, if only because I was around for the era when people still thought you could start audiogame companies. Everyone eventually realized that trying to make "replace my dayjob" money off it couldn't work because the audience couldn't afford such things. But broadly speaking, we get one quality game every 2-5 years, and I don't think that's significantly changed. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599278/#p599278 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? There is drama everywhere, that is true. The difference, however, is that drama on this site and in other different smaller communities is that unlike youtube and similar, the fact is that people know each other in small comunities. Same thing with the blind community at large in all its forms, and I'm sure any other disabled person would say the same about their communities as well. Drama just is more of a personal nature in communities like this, moreso than on the larger scale of the internet because people are awre of who is who. IT's the same in smaller churches, schools for people with disabilities, sports teams, etc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599253/#p599253 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @jayde, you have no idea how much I needed to read post 16. It gave me further, much needed insight into what I need to do in my own personal life. Hge thumbs up-! The sad thing is that as blind people we do rely so heavily on tone that it's so easy to mistake someone of being mad when they sound tired, or when they're hurting, or when they're just plain not feeling good for some other reason. It happens to me more than I care to admit it, to the point where one of the questions I ask my wife at least once a day is, "You mad at me?"And I just learned that I really have to stop. I hate what I've put the poor girl through because I care so deeply and love her so desperately and hate it that she's so sick and tired and weak all the time. At the same time, I hate screwing up as it pertains to her, so I feel like some dense stupid child continuosly asking, "You still love me, right?" She obviously can't be mad at me all the time or else she'd have been done with me long ago... I never stopped to consider just how much I might be abusing the question, and the consequences such abuse may have later on. I want her to know her feelings matter to me, but not at the extent of her feeling like I'm accusing her of being a complete angry grouch just because she can't always work up a smile for me.At the same time, it just depresses me more to have to reafirm how much we're missing out on and how much further our relationships might go if we could initiate and hold eye contact with those we care about most, as well as read their facial expressions and other physical cues. Hopefully I can turn this feeling around and into motivation to do better as time progresses... I want to for the sake of everyone around me even if I myself don't see what all the fuss is about, because that's just the problem... I don't "see" (yes I just put that word in quotes) what all the fuss is about. I'm not constantly looking at myself in a mirror and am not aware of all the little crazy things I may be doing without meaning to.I always wondered why my parents and other sighted people have felt/feel unwelcome in my home; they say I look fidgety because I'm constantly drumming my fingers or tapping my toes to an internal rhythm known only to me, myself and the beatboxing musical voices in my head. Apparently, I sometimes grit my teeth too, without even realizing I'm doing it, which makes me look like I'm mad. I've never been accused of outright looking like I'm blind; in fact I've been complimented for the opposite for the most part, but I'm starting to wonder just how blind I look and how much people have kindly overlooked in an atempt to not hurt my feelings. It seems I'm going to have to take a chance and ask for more honesty where this is concerned. How a guy can go through life for 32 years without having given this super serious thought is as far as I'm concerned a socially unacceptible and egregious oversight I hope to fix in the not too distant future, but I see now that it's going to have to start with some questions on my part and a willing ear for the answers I get in return.to everyone else, sorry for the really weird personal self rambly message. I do hope, however, that this serves as a reminder to anyone that even those of us who do our best to be presentable and have acquired some semblance of popularity and even social likeableness for the most part amongst peers don't always get it right. Let us recommit ourselves to it for those we hold dear, if not for ourselves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599243/#p599243 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? another plus 1 for 16. I did not think about the eye contact and body language.@15 I was trying to say that most of us are being positive in this dark age. I do consider it a dark age, if you want to compare it to the past. Yes we still have good games and good devs, but nothing like what we use to have. And we don't have active webmasters anymore either. Regardless of if this is a dark age or not, most of us are still staying positive, and that's why we are all still here today on thsi forum. If most of us were negative, we would have abandoned this forum by now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599227/#p599227 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Didn't read all of this, because probably the same as the other 999 centillion times this has happened. All i have to say is, the very act of posting *any* post on a forum is grabbing attention. You're posting because you want others to read it and respond to it. If you didn't want that, you wouldn't have posted. End of story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599223/#p599223 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Without reading the entire topic, and just reading the first 2 lines of post one, my answer is topics like these URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599221/#p599221 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @16, +1.///this post was ritten with narater/// URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599216/#p599216 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? You want to know why there's so much drama on the internet? Two main reasons spring to mind.1. AnonymitySeriously, even when people know who you are, the real ramifications for bad behaviour are often far smaller than they would be in face-to-face communication. You can be a complete jerk online, and what's the worst that will happen? Forty-seven people you didn't really care about anyway now call you a jerk or won't talk to you? Well damn, that totally ruins lives, doesn't it?Anonymity often makes people far braver, and by extension, far less accountable, than they would otherwise be, and this will absolutely have an impact on behaviour. When the consequences of your actions aren't something you are willing to consider because their impact on you is minimal, then your decision-making becomes skewed.2. Tone, eye contact and body languageIf you don't realize just how much things like body language, tone of voice and eye contact impact effective communication, then it's high time you did some research of your own. And no, before any of you think to try the "blind people communicate just as well as sighted people" thing? We don't. Sorry, but we don't, not even when conditions are optimal for us. Oh, we can do more than well enough to get by, so I'm not trying to criticize us as a group. But meaningful eye contact, and the ability to accurately read body language, are enormous when it comes to making connections with people and having your intentions, and the intentions of the person or people you're speaking with, rendered clear. When you're sitting behind a keyboard on the internet, reading and writing posts, you lack most of the context given by tone of voice, body language and, yes, even eye contact. This means that everybody's ability to accurately judge context is impaired to some extent. What does this translate to, though, I hear you ask? Simple, really. It's far easier to project online than it is in person. Since you don't have all the definite clues you might normally have in face-to-face communication, or even in voice chat (since while that's not perfect, it's better than nothing), it's far harder to know for sure what someone meant, and far easier to simply slap in whatever explanation suits your mood at the time. Don't kid yourselves, either, because we all do this sometimes.Take the phrase, "Right, because that makes sense", as an example. Imagine hearing that phrase. Now ask yourself what its intent is? Is it sarcastic, or is the person actually agreeing with you? Now, add in emotionality as a filter. If you're angry, you may read sarcasm where none is intended. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Emotions rule the human experience, and often cause us to make irrational choices we sometimes come to regret later.So, now combine the two. You're relatively anonymous, so any harm from bad behaviour is probably minimal. You lack a lot of context, so you're probably going to fuck up sometimes and misread someone. Oh, did I forget the bit where most people don't like being wrong or backing down? Stir that all together, and it explains things perfectly.Online communities are largely made up of people who believe their opinions matter more than they actually do. People who will upset their fellow users with less thought to the consequences than they would likely possess in face-to-face interaction. People who have limited tools of assessment at the ready to determine the meaning of the things they read, but still believe that their comprehension skills are unimpaired and in tip-top shape. People who have basically been primed for conflict by a multitude of factors, and thereafter react predictably given the social stimuli present.We all do this to some extent. Some of us are better at recognizing these pitfalls than others. Some of us will take a few moments to re-assess what we want, vs. what is best. Some of us will reread posts several times to try and ascertain what they mean, or rewrite our own posts several times so as to communicate what we really mean to the best of our ability. I am not pointing fingers here, about who does this well and who doesn't. What's the point? But if you want to know why this forum, as well as thousands of others, bubbles with toxicity sometimes, there's your answer. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599211/#p599211 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @13 I agree with you that not much good reputation is left for Brad at this point, which is very sad. About one year ago, I often enjoyed reading his posts and I was always really impressed with his generosity, but now every post somehow revolves about this forum not being a good place to be in, the community being full of drama (which he often starts himself) or I'm leaving topics.However, I disagree with the dark age thing, which I find over dramatic. I really still feel like the positive sides of this forum overweigh the negative ones and I'm very happy to be a part of the community. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599197/#p599197 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Yeah it is. But we all know Bradd's pattern. He's going to read our posts in 2 days or 4. Which is why I wrote what I did instead of pointing out the obvious.I kind of regret that though. In another topic, he wrote:"I don't really care what happens to this site as I feel it's old and clunky and that if something else comes along, peple will jump on that straight away."That right there is straight up toxicity that is only making the dark age worse. Honestly, I don't see why people loved this guy, or his posts. All I have seen from him is contradictory and hate for this community. In that topic the quote came from, people mentioned becoming a thorn in the community, Brad has become one of these. If he really did hate this site, he would leave. But he knows this site has things Redit doesn't, so he can't. And he loves drama, so... until perma banned, he'll continue spreading it, keeping us locked into the dark age.Sorry Brad. Don't know who you wer before, but honestly, it doesn't matter. Reputation gone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599182/#p599182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? isn't this sort of a drama topic? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599180/#p599180 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Every community has toxicity to a degree, and every community has its own dark ages, internet or in person. Some communities recover from the dark ages, and some fall apart because of it.There are many factors that cause these things to happen. It's hard for humans to understand each other, and even more so with lack of experience. People have opinions that sometimes get in their way of being open minded; sometimes they do this on purpose, other times not. People are from different parts of the world, and don't speak the same language. Btw, it is amazing how many non English speakers we have, the internet does have its up-sides. People are different ages, ranging from probably 9 to 70 on here; just guessing, but it is a huge range. And people have other physical and mental disabilities that make it harder for them to understand and or communicate.In my opinion, there are 2 main factors that I see causing the dark age of this community. More and more young people joining, and, our social oppression. And young people joining is not bad. They just don't understand a lot of things; and I don't know if we are being as considerate as we should be, and helping them as much as we could. As for social oppression, a lot of blind people do not know how to communicate. Some people have had very unfortunate environments that either we didn't get to speak up, or it didn't do anything when we did speak up. Social skills are very strange, because some of them are easy, some of them are not, and some of them require skills that not every human is built for, just like art, or music.The community is in a dark age, but remember, every community experiences at least 1 of these. And believe it or not, we're doing strong. We're fighting hard, and most of us, are keeping this place alive. Yeah, we don't have active webmasters, or up to date web features and security, or mods who have moe time to focus specifically on this site. But what we do have, is a long strong history and most people from the last generation are still here.Personally, I am too young to have been apart of that generation. And maybe that's part of why this dark age is happening. I didn't think about this until just now. More and more of the userbase hasn't experienced the strongest and brightest moments of the community. This new idea just came to me now, and I don't know what to think about it, so I will end my thoughts here.I hope this was worded well enough. I tried to organize my thoughts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599177/#p599177 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? What Dystopia is? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599176/#p599176 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Because humans Which is way, way less complete/specific / reproduceable an answer than I'd give to the questions in 2 ("because it's so heavy that it's insides started nuclear fusion" and "Because transparent gases scatter light, and higher frequencies get scattered more than lower frequencies. Why is it blue and not violet has mostly to do with the sun being less bright in violet because of its temperature/composition, and our eyes being less sensitive to violet, and also after enough scattering the scattered color is too scattered to see (hence, sunsets turn red/orange/etc).")So why do humans tend to come with drama? Idk, but I'm sure some Hansonian (yeah, that Hanson) evo psych nerd would say something something social status. But fwict, Hanson attributes just about every human behavior to status competitions, which doesn't ... doesn't really carve reallity at the joints.I suppose that, ultimately, question is "why is there ever unnecessary conflict?" To which the answer is "*shrug*".But no for real, this is like asking why there is conflict at all on the internet. But we don't know why that is, so it's just kicking the can down the road. Maybe people are just an unending struggle between good and evil, and sometimes complex or ambiguous situations lead to a wobble in which side is winning. Maybe people are just really bad at understanding each other, and drama is a misunderstanding that triggered "we're under attack!" / "It's an enemy; kill it!" responses. Maybe there are conflict-gobblins who hop around while you're asleep, stirring up your brains and adding some conflict-seeds, before hopping off to do it to someone else.Ugh. At least trying to answer the sun / sky questions leads to discovering helium and stuff. This just leads to a sense of helplessness and despair.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599153/#p599153
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Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? While I agree with the majority of posters that yes, drama seems to be everywhere on the internet, I have to agree with Brad about lucas' post getting an absurd amount of backlash for no reason.Yes, I get it, it's unfortunate (and yes, a bit stupid) that he fell for some sort of scam, but instead of posting such things as "haha I'm a stupid blindie who fell for a scam and wants money to buy a ps5" or some such post, you could've posted something that was less negative or aggressive.I'll admit it, I was skeptical when I saw the title of Lucas' post, but I understand why he posted it in the first place. He was hoping that some could sympathize with his mistake and help him out monetarily. Maybe you couldn't afford to help, maybe you thought it was stupid he fell for the scam in the first place, or hell, maybe you didn't feel like donating. None of that, however, is an excuse for the backlash his post received. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599150/#p599150 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Now, people have even less to do because they can't go out or when they do, it's very minimal and only for the necessities, so they come here.This time indeed, is a stressful time. Fare enough. But does that mean *all users will find a place to take out their anger on? Things like meditation can help. There are many, who don't react like others to mention some, Nocturnus, Dark, and many more. What different or what special thing they are doing to keep themselves calm, whereas others are not? What will you say about Aprone, who left one time, came again, then again left?Why do you act like Reddit is this golden haven of positivity where human loves fellow human. Yes, that is definitely to be found there, but there's also tons of bullshit, ass holes, trashy moronic posts as well. Look at the front page.Every thing has both positive, and negative consequences. Fare enough.Also, your words mean nothing because you can't even be honest with yourself, much less us. Do whatever you want, but don't expect a whole lot of people to care at this point.You are a normal internet or social media user, whatever we call it. How you know this? I don't think he is in any mooed to grab attention right now.If you think the drama here is real drama you have absolutely no idea what drama is. There is so, so much more drama to be found on Facebook, and Youtube, and Reddit.lol. What more you want to expect from 500 users? Out of which, around 330 are active. 500 because, there are around 500 users registered here, not including bots of course.Well there is drama almost everywhere in this world. But if one is strong enough, it can be avoided. Sometimes tolerance level should be high. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599139/#p599139 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Now, people have even less to do because they can't go out or when they do, it's very minimal and only for the necessities, so they come here.This time indeed, is a stressful time. Fare enough. But does that mean *all users will find a place to take out their anger on? Things like meditation can help. There are many, who don't react like others to mention some, Nocturnus, Dark, and many more. What different or what special thing they are doing to keep themselves calm, whereas others are no? What will you say about Aprone, who left one time, came again, then again left?Why do you act like Reddit is this golden haven of positivity where human loves fellow human. Yes, that is definitely to be found there, but there's also tons of bullshit, ass holes, trashy moronic posts as well. Look at the front page.Every thing has both positive, and negative consequences. Fare enough.Also, your words mean nothing because you can't even be honest with yourself, much less us. Do whatever you want, but don't expect a whole lot of people to care at this point.You are a normal internet or social media user, whatever we call it. How you know this? I don't think he is in any mooed to grab attention right now.If you think the drama here is real drama you have absolutely no idea what drama is. There is so, so much more drama to be found on Facebook, and Youtube, and Reddit.lol. What more you want to expect from 500 users? Out of which, around 330 are active. 500 because, there are around 500 users registered here, not including bots of course.Well there is drama almost everywhere in this world. But if one is strong enough, it can be avoided. Sometimes tolerance level should be high. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599139/#p599139 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Ooh, this topic title looks tasty! I bet there is drama in it. I need my daily fix. Let's see ...There is drama in the blind community because there is drama everywhere there is a group of humans. Sooner or later, a conflict happens. That's humanity for you.But if we're asking all the good questions, can we ask another one? Why do people make so many "I'm leaving" topics ... and then pretty much always come back? Oh right. Also a human thing.Look Brad, you've done this so many times by now that you got banned for it. I hope you will not tell us you are "not doing it for attention" again. Why are you doing it then, if not to let us all know just how much we disappointed you again and how ashamed we should be and how much we should miss you?Go Brad, go. Onward, to the places that make you happier. Live the dream. There is only one person on this forum that can stop you.But also, only one person that could *truly* care. Some folx might think about you a time or two, for sure. But the forum will move on without you, as it would move on without me, without anyone, even the big members. People come and go, it is a fact of life. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599138/#p599138 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? If you think the drama here is real drama you have absolutely no idea what drama is. There is so, so much more drama to be found on Facebook, and Youtube, and Reddit... Name any service where a ton of sighted people congregate and you'll find far more drama on there than here. We have drama here but its nowhere as bad as what you might find elsewhere. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599136/#p599136 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? If you think the drama here is real drama you have absolutely no idea what drama is. There is so, so much more drama to be found on Facebook, and Youtube, and Reddit... Name any service where a ton of sighted people congregate and you'll find far more drama on there than here. We have dram here but its nowhere as bad as what you might find elsewhere. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599136/#p599136 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? with @4 here. Its just the internet. There is drama every where. Not just in the blind community. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599132/#p599132 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Internet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599131/#p599131 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? edit 2.I decided to get it out of the way. I've left, I'd not bother responding to this post because I won't be responding, unless you want to make more drama and if so; I can't stop you.edit1: just letting those who want it know, the Harry potter stuff will still be there for as many years as I can leave it in dropbox.Hi, I've decided to step back for a while, I'll only post on things I feel are worth it or leave outright in a couple of days , I'll see. Anyway that doesn't matter, i'm just putting it out there as a thing that I must do for me and writing it down helps.I'm writing this post because I was banned for, 4 months? And nothing has changed when it comes to drama on here and I ask myself, why is that?Why can't people just leave topics alone they clearly don't like or want to post in?I'm working on it, so why can't you?You didn't like lucus's post? Leave it alone, the posts I've made? Leave them alone, no one is making you post here people so why do you fan the flames?Getting your oppinion out there is fine, but do you have to be so negative? Perhaps instead of attacking lucus, you could have just said something like, while I won't be donating as I don't agree with this, I wish you luck.This doesn't happen just here either, on Vorail it happens too, there's a post someone clearly doens't like but they feel the need to be negative and reply or just out right state the post is crap when they didn't have to do this.I've canceled my vorail subscription and am probably going to just leave here in a couple days because nothing changes here in this sense and I don't even play audiogames that much anymore.And before some of you say it, and you will even if I write it first, this is not an attention grabbing post, it's a post saying, please grow up and that if you're not careful, you'll have less and less members over the years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599103/#p599103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? edit: just letting those who want it know, the Harry potter stuff will still be there for as many years as I can leave it in dropbox.Hi, I've decided to step back for a while, I'll only post on things I feel are worth it or leave outright in a couple of days , I'll see. Anyway that doesn't matter, i'm just putting it out there as a thing that I must do for me and writing it down helps.I'm writing this post because I was banned for, 4 months? And nothing has changed when it comes to drama on here and I ask myself, why is that?Why can't people just leave topics alone they clearly don't like or want to post in?I'm working on it, so why can't you?You didn't like lucus's post? Leave it alone, the posts I've made? Leave them alone, no one is making you post here people so why do you fan the flames?Getting your oppinion out there is fine, but do you have to be so negative? Perhaps instead of attacking lucus, you could have just said something like, while I won't be donating as I don't agree with this, I wish you luck.This doesn't happen just here either, on Vorail it happens too, there's a post someone clearly doens't like but they feel the need to be negative and reply or just out right state the post is crap when they didn't have to do this.I've canceled my vorail subscription and am probably going to just leave here in a couple days because nothing changes here in this sense and I don't even play audiogames that much anymore.And before some of you say it, and you will even if I write it first, this is not an attention grabbing post, it's a post saying, please grow up and that if you're not careful, you'll have less and less members over the years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599103/#p599103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? @GrannyCheeseWheel, I don't think they will and I'm fine with that.I'm not trying to act as if reddit is the best site ever, I like it; but use youtube more.I like the fact that with reddit you can view whatever sub you wish, can they have drama, honestly; that depends on what subs you go to.As for viewing the front page, I don't. I just use dystopia and old.reddit.com and view my subs. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599119/#p599119 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
2020-12-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Why does the sun shine? Why is the sky blue? Do you really expect an answer to this question? For as long as I've been associated with the blind community, there has been drama. Now, people have even less to do because they can't go out or when they do, it's very minimal and only for the necessities, so they come here.Why do you act like Reddit is this golden haven of positivity where human loves fellow human. Yes, that is definitely to be found there, but there's also tons of bullshit, ass holes, trashy moronic posts as well. Look at the front page. You won't even have to have any suicide or mental illness subs you're subscribed to to see so many posts of people wanting to kill themselves. I'm not making light of their struggles, believe me, but it's all over Reddit. Like, at least represent it for what it is instead of being a shill. I like Reddit. I am on there most days, but if I am going to present it to people, in hopes of getting them to join, I'm at least going to make sure I tell them the good and the bad.Also, your words mean nothing because you can't even be honest with yourself, much less us. Do whatever you want, but don't expect a whole lot of people to care at this point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599116/#p599116 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen?
Drama in the blind comunity, why does it happen? Hi, I've decided to step back for a while, I'll only post on things I feel are worth it or leave outright in a couple of days , I'll see. Anyway that doesn't matter, i'm just putting it out there as a thing that I must do for me and writing it down helps.I'm writing this post because I was banned for, 4 months? And nothing has changed when it comes to drama on here and I ask myself, why is that?Why can't people just leave topics alone they clearly don't like or want to post in?I'm working on it, so why can't you?You didn't like lucus's post? Leave it alone, the posts I've made? Leave them alone, no one is making you post here people so why do you fan the flames?Getting your oppinion out there is fine, but do you have to be so negative? Perhaps instead of attacking lucus, you could have just said something like, while I won't be donating as I don't agree with this, I wish you luck.This doesn't happen just here either, on Vorail it happens too, there's a post someone clearly doens't like but they feel the need to be negative and reply or just out right state the post is crap when they didn't have to do this.I've canceled my vorail subscription and am probably going to just leave here in a couple days because nothing changes here in this sense and I don't even play audiogames that much anymore.And before some of you say it, and you will even if I write it first, this is not an attention grabbing post, it's a post saying, please grow up and that if you're not careful, you'll have less and less members over the years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/599103/#p599103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
