Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source OK maybe not love it lol. Still, if NVDA doesn't come up with a business or enterprise version that's a lot more secure than what we have now, companies are going to be slow to embrace it ,and I don't blame them. How can we as the NVDA community go out there and push NVDA in the workforce when it it could introduce vulnerabilities into their network. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415940/#p415940 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source I can get behind the fact that we have to accept JAWS in the workplace, but love it, nah, that's a bridge too far. It does piss me off that uninformed people assume that open source = bad, and I wish that attitude would die in a fire, but it's just not going to happen, at least not anytime soon. The way I see it, there are going to be a ton of other things you probably won't like about your job anyway, right? So what's one more, i.e., using a screen reader you don't particularly care for? You're free to use whatever you want when you're off the clock. On a personal level, I don't like the fact that JAWS is still the gold standard in work environments. It's because of government agencies and employers that it still exists in the first place, which allows them to price gouge, and I don't think that's right. But what I can do is support NV Access on my own time. I can donate to them while giving the finger to VFO, or whatever their new name is, which I don't care to remember. As I said, you're probably going to have to put up with other annoyances, like co-workers you don't like, or other questionable work policies, yet you wouldn't get up in arms about that, you'd grin and bear it for the sake of keeping your job. You might go home and rant about your inconsiderate co-workers to your partner or a friend, or figure out whether you might be able to find a new job if your employer was doing something particularly heinous, but you wouldn't outright boycott the place, right? That's how I've come to think of this over the past couple of years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415823/#p415823 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source It's no secret that "official" NVDA add-ons don't go through a stringent review process, so maybe this is what your potential employer is worried about. If you can convince them that you will not be running add-ons, you should be good to go. I would advise against running any NVDA add-ons on secure machines. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415820/#p415820 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source Plus there's always the scripts issue. Since JAWS has established itself by now, there could be an oddball JAWS script created just for one company's software that isn't accessible with NVDA, and a corresponding addon has not been created for NVDA for use with that software. This is why I think that even though NVDA is gaining popularity and trying to improve support for apps used in business environments such as Microsoft Office, JAWS will always have its place. Also Jade, you agree with Iron on something? That's surprising. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415383/#p415383 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source Plus there's always the scripts issue. Since JAWS has established itself by now, there could be an oddball JAWS script created just for one company's software that isn't accessible with NVDA, and a corresponding addon has not been created for NVDA for use with that software. This is why I think that even though NVDA is gaining popularity and trying to improve support for apps used in business environments such as Microsoft Office, JAWS will always have its place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415383/#p415383 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source Plus there's always the scripts issue. Since JAWS has established itself by now, there could be an oddball JAWS script just for one company's software that isn't accessible with NVDA, and a corresponding addon has not been created for NVDA for use with that software. This is why I think that even though NVDA is gaining popularity and trying to improve support for apps used in business environments such as Microsoft Office, JAWS will always have its place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415383/#p415383 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source Plus there's always the scripts issue. Since JAWS has established itself by now, there could be an oddball JAWS script just for one company's software that isn't accessible with NVDA, and a corresponding addon has not been created for NVDA for use with that software. This is why I think that even though NVDA is gaining popularity and trying to improve support for apps used in corporations such as Microsoft Office, JAWS will always have its place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415383/#p415383 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source Agreed with Ironcross here.Also, Jaws has a generally wider recognition and wider compatibility, though NVDA has made serious strides in that direction lately. What Ironcross said about learning Jaws if you want to work? Yeah, that. Very good idea. You don't have to love it, maybe, but you'd better get used to it. The same way if you want to work in IT but love your Mac, you're still gonna have to learn to use Windows.I applaud you for trying to save your state agency money and all. That's cool. But even though we know 99.% of NVDA users are absolutely no security risk of any kind, it's the principle of the thing, and security is extremely important these days. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415346/#p415346 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source dude you're like looking so narrowly in front of you that you're failing to see the bigger picture. I've explained this like 2 or three times already and I'm not going to continue to reiterate it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415338/#p415338 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source I think its pretty sad that you as a blind person whanting to save your state and the company money they shoot you down for trying to help them save money. Also I don't know what has changed about Jaws. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415318/#p415318 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source I might try contacting NVaccess and see how they could help. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415317/#p415317 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source But even if they would want to hack the source, how would they make sure that people will use that certain version if a pull request has to be merged? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415211/#p415211 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source I think she's correct not to allow it. I like NVDA, but she's correct in this instance. To be clear, I do side with you in that teachers and the like do dismiss NVDA needlessly. I do agree that NVDA could use more exposure to these people so they know what it is and how it fits in, and the advantages it has over jaws. But, NVDA is not secure, not in the least little bit is it secure. If NVAccess wants NVDA to start becoming a thing in the workforce, they're going to have to crack down on security, which means one of two things. Create a separate NVDA for business, which disallows the use of all addons in it, or reduce addon power to the rest of NVDA. I'm sure the NVDA users would not like that second option one litttle bit so table it, they have one option. This is a state agency, you have to realize that security is extremely important. I might be on your side if it was like a ma and pa shoe shop, but still, they have the right to security as well. The fact is, NVDA literally doesn't stop addons from doing whatever they want, literally whatever is in the power of the python programming language, NVDA doesn't step in, the addon could do whatever they want.Now as to hacking into it, Ehh, I can see two sides of this one. First, I don't like the assumption that just because it's open source, it's automatically hackable or vulnerable. However, given the source code is readily available, anyone could download it and study it. They wouldn't even necessarily need to build it either, but building NVDA is fairly simple. So yes, I do see both sides of that issue.The only thing I can say to this is if you're gonna be working, get jaws, learn jaws, love jaws, end of story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415198/#p415198 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source Ask for details. Ask how open source software is easier to hack and then use counterarguments. Say that any new code that is added has to go threw a review process. Maybe try to show of your better knowledge when it comes to screenreaders. Or else, just create a portable nvda copy, place it on the desktop or in downloads, remember the shortcuts to get there and done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415180/#p415180 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source i know the teacher problem. I was forced to use jaws for like 8 years, until i finaly got nvda in november 2018. My teachers were always refering to an out of date test of nvda, screw the fackt that it was made with really old nvda version. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415175/#p415175 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source yeah, and wen I try to explain stuff to my teachers there like, o your just a kid, you can't know more than me about computers... Despite the fact that I've spent the good part of 3 years in the depths of a computer... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415145/#p415145 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: blind open source vs closed source
Re: blind open source vs closed source This even happens in the UK. I experienced the same when it came to college and funding for a laptop. The person helping me with that, well I mentioned NVDA to them and said it was free, and they said "oh that's not very good is it", this wasn't a college person but someone helping me get the tech ready.Well I got my laptop, got jaws, but over the long term, we all noticed it crashing. Luckily, this was for an IT course, which meant the tutors on the course were actually fourthcoming and forward thinking, especially one inparticular. So one day, I stopped Jaws from starting up, installed NVDA, ran it, with no objection from the tutors, and there were no crashes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415134/#p415134 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
