Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data I'd be interested to try anything you come up with. I'd keep it in the dev room though unless its an actual game ready for release, but yeah you can post betas and stuff here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=293246#p293246 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Hello,You can post betas even alphas in the developer room URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=293245#p293245 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : nerdygentleman via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data You guys have given me some great stuff to get started with, and the idea of actually trying a few makes a lot of sense. Thank you for your suggestions.I also think it'll be fun to do some experimenting with. Questioning whether I want to modify an old roguelike I made, or come up with something new to play with.Re 3D - I think it helps at least that railroad and 'space management' (think Theme Hospital) games (the kind I'm interested and curious in) tend to be largely 2D, or 2D with levels occasionally - so I don't think completely impossible... I hope!I didn't realise that there was such a thing as a screen reader library. My assumption was that I was going to try to make something work in a console, as that should be easy for a reader - but I'll have more of a think. Other libraries and tools mentioned here are stuff I've never heard of, so I'll have to spend some time and figure them out and what already exists. Is this forum welcoming of experiments and attempts for feedback? Or should I try to hold back until I have something more finished?Thanks again,L. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=293233#p293233 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data I'd be interested to try anything you come up with. I'd keep it in the dev room though unless its an actual game ready for release, but yeah you can post betas and stuff here. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=293246#p293246 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Hello,You can post betas even alphas in the developer room URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=293245#p293245 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : nerdygentleman via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data You guys have given me some great stuff to get started with, and the idea of actually trying a few makes a lot of sense. Thank you for your suggestions.I also think it'll be fun to do some experimenting with. Questioning whether I want to modify an old roguelike I made, or come up with something new to play with.Re 3D - I think it helps at least that railroad and 'space management' (think Theme Hospital) games (the kind I'm interested and curious in) tend to be largely 2D, or 2D with levels occasionally - so I don't think completely impossible... I hope!I didn't realise that there was such a thing as a screen reader library. My assumption was that I was going to try to make something work in a console, as that should be easy for a reader - but I'll have more of a think. Other libraries and tools mentioned here are stuff I've never heard of, so I'll have to spend some time and figure them out and what already exists. Is this forum welcoming of experiments and attempts for feedback? Or should I try to hold back until I have something more finished?Thanks again,L. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=293233#p293233 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Well on a 2D grid, X is your left to right, and Y is your up and down, if you want to talk about 3D, it gets a lot more complicated, because now you have to deal with X, Y, and Z axes, plus rotation. So yeah, X still represents left to right, Y is now forward and backward, and Z is your height. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292793#p292793 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Wouldn't you want a z-axis? Or is your y-axis your z-axis? Not sure how you could represent that, and maybe I'm wrong, but just something I thought of while reading your post. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292751#p292751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Wouldn't you want a z-axis? Or is your y-axis your z-axis? Not sure how you could represent that, and maybe I'm wrong, but just something I thought of while reading your post. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292751#p292751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Yeah, a moveable and zoomable view could work, OK, so for X/Y translation you have two clicks, one subtly different indicating the other direction, they raise in pitch as you move the view in either direction, so the lowest pitch might be bottle left of the map. I am low vision and I remember playing Roller Coaster Tycoon and stuff like that. So think if you center the view on a location you would like to build on, you then hear each piece of track relative to that viewpoint. So Imagine building a gokart track, you start in the middle, and you built near the top, so place like 5 straight pieces, a turn, like 3 pieces, an S bend and so on, each one you hear along the stereo field, now for the Y axis, I am not quite sure how you could go there, pitch could be an indicator. But in this way you get an idea of what you're doing in relation to one little area. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292702#p292702 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data I am low vision, so I have played games like roller coaster tycoon and the like. The moveable, zoomable view seems like a good option, for instance, you have a series of keys to translate the view, you hear a click for X, and one for Y that is subtly different. The clicks raise in pitch as you are over an area, thus, now you have a view that can focus on any area you need it to, making interaction possible. So say you wanted to make a simple gokart track, each new track you hear not from the central position, but in a position relevant to the view, ugh, this isn't making sense even to me but I can picture it in my mind. So say you start with a station, go up 3 times URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292701#p292701 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Hi.aah a newbyWell first there are a lot of libraries that can handle your screen reader.One such is tolque which is opensource.There are others some written by others here I forgot their names.These handle the most popular screen readers, jaws, window eyes, supernova dolphin and non visual desktop access, nvda as well as sapi interfaces.It may be better for you to directly interface with one of these libraries for screen reader control, so you don't have to spend time busting your gut with every interface.Ofcause depending on what it is you can go the entire hog with full voice guidence via recorded files which will increase your game size a lot.As long as you can support 2 or 3d audio with sounds from directions, music to sute moods and changes as well as sounds for events and the like well thats about it.Some way to locate objects, and some way to locate walls where needed as well as target.Some older games had target beeps but there are a lot of things you can do with panning and the like.We can and have got a lot of actual audio games with the right environment we can make complex games.I am not sure of roge likes but if you go to mush-z.com for example and download and install the sound pack then rummage through the folders there is music for every battle, condition, movement environment and the like.There are event sounds and the like.Look at some of the oldergames on gmagames.com, some of the japanese games with sounds, then look at audiogamehub at audiogamehub.comSorry users I shouldn't plug myself but I kinda work for a company now so yeah.Look at eurofly, finally look at either kitchensinc.net, or spoonbill software and agarchive.net for audio games.Finally look at ffproject.com and choiceofgames.com, for text stuff.And if that is not enough there are all the old text adventure languages and then there are the newer ones like twine, which you can make using their site or via download of it so there you go.I hope that helps you some. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292697#p292697 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Displaying regions or objects of scale can be a bit tricky, although as mentioned tilemaps work to a degree as people can build a mental map of where everything is using spatial coordinates. I've experimented a bit with Peter Meijers [image to sound rendering] myself, such as with a minimap using solid color filters to isolate different object types. Along with Aprones work you could also check out my paint tool BrushTone, which might offer some ideas. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292696#p292696 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Tiles are the easiest way.I feel like the zoom idea should work, but AFAIK no one has implemented it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292674#p292674 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Nerdygentleman, first off, Welcome to the forum! I'm also one of the fully sighted devs floating around here (we have a club... I'll teach you the handshake later).Not to throw my own stuff around, but if you're trying to get your feet wet with some audio game examples, I have a few that do contain graphics. The game Castaways is, in my opinion, a good foot-wetting game for a sighted guy. It can be downloaded from www.kaldobsky.com/audiogames/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292667#p292667 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data The only thing that comes to mind is maybe soundrts? Have you taken a look at how that's done? Though that's an rts and not a tycoon game, so maybe it won't help out that much, but that's all that comes to mind at the moment. Their are other sighted devs on here like Aprone, maybe he can offer better input? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292657#p292657 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : nerdygentleman via Audiogames-reflector
Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Heya - As it says above - I'm a sighted gamer/amateur game dev/professional software engineer who is trying to understand how to make interfaces for games work with audio-interfaces, screen readers etc. I know this takes it strictly out of Audio Games, but I've been unable to find any other good forums where Audio Games or games for the blind. I've been really keen to start at least considering ways to include a non-visual interface since listening to the enlightening episode of Roguelike Radio featuring a discussion about roguelike games being playable by the blind, and notably what makes it possible with screenreaders, but also the challenges I as a sighted gamer don't face. The biggest I noticed from the interview was being able to 'see' larger, open levels.So - are there any good ways of presenting spatial data in a blind-friendly way? I'd love to make a Roguelike, or a Tycoon style game that is accessible by everybody. T he difficulty is that both genres - whilst being friendly to being turn based or slowed down - feature spatial management heavily. In the case of RLs - it seemed that the ASCII interface plus smaller scale rooms worked well. In the case of Tycoon games - I don't know. The issue is - with something like Railroad Tycoon and its placing train tracks manually interface - that you've got a map which is sparsely filled.Ideas I've had are to try to enable a more 'route' based interface for building if players want to use it, possibly describe that way.Or - alternatively - has anybody attempted using a moveable, zoomable space? So, the screen reader can be focussed on parts of the map, and then zoomed in on smaller parts for more detail, rather than presenting it all, every time?Has anybody got any suggestions? Any guidance as to where I go next to see these problems solved? Heck - have they been solved, and I just don't know it?Sorr y for a lot of questions. First time around here, and I'm really keen to learn.L.(Also - sorry admins - did I choose the right room for this post? Here, or general?) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292601#p292601 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data
2017-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : nerdygentleman via Audiogames-reflector
Sighted Gamer/Dev, trying to get how best to present spatial data Heya - As it says above - I'm a sighted gamer/amateur game dev/professional software engineer who is trying to understand how to make interfaces for games work with audio-interfaces, screen readers etc. I know this takes it strictly out of Audio Games, but I've been unable to find any other good forums where Audio Games or games for the blind. I've been really keen to start at least considering ways to include a non-visual interface since listening to the enlightening episode of Roguelike Radio featuring a discussion about roguelike games being playable by the blind, and notably what makes it possible with screenreaders, but also the challenges I as a sighted gamer don't face. The biggest I noticed from the interview was being able to 'see' larger, open levels.So - are there any good ways of presenting spatial data in a blind-friendly way? I'd love to make a Roguelike, or a Tycoon style game that is accessible by everybody. T he difficulty is that both genres - whilst being friendly to being turn based or slowed down - feature spatial management heavily. In the case of RLs - it seemed that the ASCII interface plus smaller scale rooms worked well. In the case of Tycoon games - I don't know. The issue is - with something like Railroad Tycoon and its placing train tracks manually interface - that you've got a map which is sparsely filled.Ideas I've had are to try to enable a more 'route' based interface for building if players want to use it, possibly describe that way.Or - alternatively - has anybody attempted using a moveable, zoomable space? So, the screen reader can be focussed on parts of the map, and then zoomed in on smaller parts for more detail, rather than presenting it all, every time?Has anybody got any suggestions? Any guidance as to where I go next to see these problems solved? Heck - have they been solved, and I just don't know it?Sorr y for a lot of questions. First time around here, and I'm really keen to learn.L. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=292601#p292601 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
