[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hello, currently I have the following chain: Transporter via xlr into Marantz PM-11s1 (integrated pre and main) into Dali Helicon 400. I want to stick to the speakers but I am thinking about the following: Transporter via rca into Audionet Amp I v2 into Dali Helicon 400. Pros: - Seemingly far better sound. Lighter less harsh - no preamp anymore - only one source with it's own volume control Cons: Less security - risk of blown speakers would use transporters internal jumpers for attenuation though - no xlr connection - additional 2,8K Euro for upgrading required Any thoughts or suggestions for a stereo main amplifier arround 4 to 5K Euro or fitting the Dali speakers? Any experiences with the Marantz amplifier? Thanks Jeronimo -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hi Jeronimo, your bottle neck is the Transporter DAC - take a better one and leave the PM11 and the speakers I'm using an Audionet VIP G3 as my DAC and it is a real nice combination. You can also use the Art G2 with good results. If you don't want to invest that much, look around for a good external DAC. Just my 2c. Best regards Karl-Heinz -- finkaudio finkaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hi, is that to say, that you are using the Marantz amp or the Audionet ? With the same Dali speakers? Will take a look at Audionet's dacs. But then again if my hearing experience would support your position I would sell the Transporter and take the SB3 or even better just a Squeezebox receiver. Thanks for your statement. Little depressing though. And I thought the TP is quite allright after even Harmonic claimed that it sounded good plugged directly into main amps. And he was always up when it came to critisize the Transporter. ;) Well, my ears will tell me... Ciao Jeronimo -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RME ADI-2 - External DAC issue
Thanks for your explainations so far. I just read a thread about the positive effect of cheap DACs Made in China. Still I have a hard time believing that professional mastering gear like the ADI-2 has ZERO effect on sound qualiy while some cheapish 100 plastic boxes are praised for their performance. My setup: Squeezebox Duet (Optical/Coax Connection via Oehlbach Digital Cable - RME ADI-2) Solen Tigre Hybrid Amplifier (Valve Pre, Transistor Power Ampl.) Silent Wire Audio Physics Yara Evolution That way I can directly switch inputs with and without the external DAC. Except for a small difference in volume there is NO audible difference between both options. There's also no difference in Optical/Coax digital connection quality. Is it possible, that the speakers are too bad to hear the difference? It's just because there's a lot of people euphoric about external DACs and also some who don't see any differnce at all. As a former scientist, maybe I'm looking for a measurable explanation... ;) The reason why I'm still dealing with the issue is - should I keep the DAC and check if a speaker update will make the improvement audible or should I just quit thinking about external DACs for the time being? -- Zardoz Zardoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18036 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48679 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RME ADI-2 - External DAC issue
Hi StigErik, I heard about the importance of equal volume when comparing sound devices. I had expected to hear at least a little difference, a slight coloration or something between both scenarios, but there is nothing. This made me even think that I might have done something wrong. Maybe it's like you said, the quality of the internal Burr Browns and the ADI-2 is on the same level. That said, there's really no use in spending 600 for this specific dac. -- Zardoz Zardoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18036 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48679 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hi Jeronimo, I know the Marantz amp very well and all the Audionet amps as well. I know the speakers and I know the Transporter :-) Using the SB3 and a DAC is a possibility, but you will miss the chance to play 96kHz/24Bit files. I now have a lot of HighRes material and it's really fun We have finally started to work on a Transporter modification here, but it will take more time. I earn my money with developing HiFi devices, but this one is pure hobby and needs to wait for some spare time. However, just changing Opamps and a few capacitors did not really help, so there is a more complex problem. I have a version running here that definitely is much more fun (without changing measurements), but I think there is more potential. It's still a bit slow and shy in some areas. I think the Transporter is more an engineering device than a High-End product done by voicing it. For that it's amazingly good, but after working for more than 20 years in this industry I learned that engineering is not everything. And I'm not talking about Voodoo here :-) Best regards karl-heinz -- finkaudio finkaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
finkaudio;310362 Wrote: Hi Jeronimo, your bottle neck is the Transporter DAC - take a better one and leave the PM11 and the speakers I'm using an Audionet VIP G3 as my DAC and it is a real nice combination. You can also use the Art G2 with good results. If you don't want to invest that much, look around for a good external DAC. Just my 2c. Best regards Karl-Heinz How can the bottle neck be the Transporter dac - AKM miracle dac? That seems ludicrous to me. -- mr_bill mr_bill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
finkaudio;310362 Wrote: your bottle neck is the Transporter DAC Seriously? finkaudio Wrote: We have finally started to work on a Transporter modification here A. Now I understand. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
mr_bill;310414 Wrote: How can the bottle neck be the Transporter dac - AKM miracle dac? That seems ludicrous to me. Wow seriously ? a real miracle dac then the transporter must be amazing. A local dealer has the transporter and a linn sneaky ds player hooked up to the same system . I have zero clue what dac the sneaky uses but i do know it sounds considerably more neutral and correct along side a natural musicalty that makes the transporter sounds rather uninspireing . -- harmonic harmonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6879 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
harmonic;310433 Wrote: Wow seriously ? a real miracle dac then the transporter must be amazing. A local dealer has the transporter and a linn sneaky ds player hooked up to the same system . I have zero clue what dac the sneaky uses but i do know it sounds considerably more neutral and correct along side a natural musicalty that makes the transporter sounds rather uninspireing . Without wanting to start a war, how do you know it is more neutral and correct?... what exactly is your benchmark here? Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Phil Leigh;310492 Wrote: Without wanting to start a war, how do you know it is more neutral and correct?... what exactly is your benchmark here? Phil Good questian More neutral because voices, instruments, drums, sounds more like the real deal. More correct because it was much better infact at seperating the instruments in the soundstage, and you could folllow the individuel instruments more clearly. The most aparent difference between the transporter and the sneaky was in the way it starts and stops and puts the weight to the music in the exact right places. The trasnporter in this regard sounded pretty close to dead. -- harmonic harmonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6879 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hello, well, we are right into transporter versus modding wars again. And Harmonic is back on stage again. Ah, not to forget Phil. Well, I can not say much about the TP despite the fact that when we rebuilt the chain at my local dealer we replaced the Marantz with the Amp I v2 by Audionet and got a huge difference in sound quality. We matched volumes not by spl meters but via the db displayed by transporter and the Marantz (when using the Amp I v2 the TP was the only volume control in the chain). So in some sense it might be true that there are better dacs out there then the so-called miracle/marketing dac by AKM but I think the Tp's is quite decent and well we made an assumed improvement by changing the main amp or by removing the preamp stage entirely. So FinkAudio might or night not be right. But my listening experience suggests that the Marantz is limitted in some way. We tested some other main amps along with the Amp I v2. None of the three tested did the same effect to the music. I forgot them all but the Amp I v2 stood out of the row. I think it was Clive who said that removing the preamp from his chain was one of the biggest improvements within years. Well Carl-Heinz if you know the Marantz and the Audionet stuff well or even sell it... Drop us some more lines... Cheers Jeronimo -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
I would stay a way from modding , there are all kinds of things that can go wrong , been there done that. Besides that if you dont like the sound dont mod it find somthing that sounds better. -- harmonic harmonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6879 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
jaysung;310501 Wrote: Hello, well, we are right into transporter versus modding wars again. And Harmonic is back on stage again. Ah, not to forget Phil. Jeronimo Sorry - have I said something wrong? I was merely trying to understand how Harmonic knew that the sound was more correct... Personally unless I'm using my own masters I'm very wary of statements like that because I do not know what correct or accurate is. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hi Phil, nope. Everything allright. That was just being a bit ironic about the debates concerning the TP. See I have opened a thread about whether or not I should replace my amp not the source. Within some posts we were talking about whether the dac is allright or not. Oh, well. ;) Best regards, Jeronimo -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
jaysung;310358 Wrote: Pros: - Seemingly far better sound. Lighter less harsh - no preamp anymore - only one source with it's own volume control I've listened to my Transporter both with and without my VTL preamp. Definitely prefer it with the preamp, with a bit more full sound and better dynamics. Plus I have an FM tuner and still have a CD player that I use occasionally. The Transporter isn't an optio as a preamp for analog sources. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
JJZolx;310595 Wrote: I've listened to my Transporter both with and without my VTL preamp. Definitely prefer it with the preamp, with a bit more full sound and better dynamics. Plus I have an FM tuner and still have a CD player that I use occasionally. The Transporter isn't an option as a preamp for analog sources. I have to agree, JJZolx. I have used the TP both as its own pre-amp and as only a source. There are some noticeable differences. Not that they are bad, just different. It could just be what interconnects bring or don't bring to the overall sound. I have never left the TP as the source/pre-amp for long (due to fear of the white noise of death). And maybe it is because I am quite pleased with the total sound produced by Transporter - XLR - VTL 6.5 Signature Pre-amp - XLR - Ayre Monoblocks - Vandersteen Quatro Speakers. While I am a fan of keeping it simple and a minimal signal path should sound best, I end up with more satisfaction just using the Transporter as a source. To the OP: Try it with the TP only. Then see if your local dealer will let you borrow some gear (amps, I-amps, pre-amp w/amp) to compare what sounds best to you. In the end all the advice in the world is no good unless it sounds good to you. If you think a new DAC might make a difference, try to borrow a Bel Canto e.One DAC3 D/A processor. For the money, it packs a lot of bang for the buck. An SB3 with a Bel Canto e.One DAC3 D/A processor is a very hard front end to beat for the money. -- iPhone *iPhone* 'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/mephone) Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono Blocks, Vandersteen Quatro, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Bedroom: SB3, NAD C370, Thiel 2.3 Home Office: SB3, Parasound Vamp v.3, VSM-1 Sigs Mobile: SB3, Audioengine A5 iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
Hello, iPhone;310648 Wrote: (due to fear of the white noise of death). What exactly do you mean by the above statement? @ JJzolx : Currently the TP is the only source in my setup. Well, there is a Philips DVD player merely for listening to new cds before I rip them. It is connected via rca digital inputs and sounds OK. To the OP: Try it with the TP only. Then see if your local dealer will let you borrow some gear (amps, I-amps, pre-amp w/amp) to compare what sounds best to you. In the end all the advice in the world is no good unless it sounds good to you. If you think a new DAC might make a difference, try to borrow a Bel Canto e.One DAC3 D/A processor. For the money, it packs a lot of bang for the buck. An SB3 with a Bel Canto e.One DAC3 D/A processor is a very hard front end to beat for the money. Thanks I will keep that in mind. Have looked at the ART g2 by Audionet which was suggested above by FinkAudio. Well, I was not looking for a cd player in the first place. It can be used as a dac but I would rather go for an external dac. BR Jeronimo -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48713 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Would you upgrade ?
jaysung wrote: iPhone;310648 Wrote: (due to fear of the white noise of death). What exactly do you mean by the above statement? I'm note iPhone, but the term means the loud white noise that happens sometimes. Its a potential problem, but wise folks prepare for it. Sometimes a SqueezeBox, Receiver or Transporter's internal software can get confused. No one knows exactly why, but its been reported. Sometimes when it happens, random bits are sent out the signal paths. Its white noise If you directly connect your Transporter to an amplifier, which is techincally very easy, then depending on the gain of the amp and speakers, the white noise can be very loud. This can damage your ears, the speakers or even the amp. So, the prudent setup is to make sure that if the Transporter is wide open volume (no attenuation digitally) that the signal will not damage your speakers, amp, or ears. You can attenuate the signal with a preamp, analog volume control, or even some fixed attenuators. But relying on the Transporter's digital volume control to always work is not wise. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
