Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox v3 cabling ?
Logon19;318326 Wrote: Hi; New owner of a Squeezebox classic. Question is it worth it to buy a optical cable for this unit. Edson And connect to what ? what are you using now, analog or digital ? to what amplifier ? the answer to your Q lies entirely on facts that you haven't told anyone :-) yet.. why not the coaxial digital out ? Normal optical cables are not that expensive, why not just by one and try ? A temporary answer: if you can use digital inputs on something why not give it a try, it's the prefered input for most recivers, if it is a reciever you got ? -- Mnyb Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49666 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] To DAC or Not to DAC
kh6idf;318321 Wrote: I just posted a reply to another thread with basically the same information, but I am using an external DAC with mostly internet radio/Pandora/Last.fm listening. It sounds REALLY good even though it is just 128kbps for most of the streams. There are some internet radio streams at 256 and sometimes higher that sound even better (look for AVRO in the shoutcast classical section) , but I am very happy with what I'm hearing at 128. Clear, transparent, detailed and coherent (emphasis on the coherent) with a nice solid stereo image and bass foundation. The SB3 internal DAC is pretty decent but I am hearing more transparency and coherence with the external DAC. If you could borrow a good DAC from someone or invite them over to hear the SB3 and bring their DAC it would be a no-cost way to evaluate the difference. Or try to get the DAC on a trial basis where you can return it if you don't think it makes enough difference. I agree that at higher bit rates lossy can sound quite good, and even the low bitrates are OK for background listening and such. But seriously, when listening to music, and by that I mean sitting in the sweet spot with no books, newspapers, laptops etc, turn the volume up and the lights down. Then 128k sounds nothing but crappy. Of course crappy is relative to some baseline defined by the overall setup. Better dacs, speakers, etc will move the crappy-threshold. But the point is that the quality is so much worse than it could be with proper source material. If the difference is not that significant in a system with specs such as yours, then there must be something else missing in the setup, such as room acoustics, speaker placement etc. :) -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49648 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox v3 cabling ?
Mnyb;318347 Wrote: And connect to what ? what are you using now, analog or digital ? to what amplifier ? the answer to your Q lies entirely on facts that you haven't told anyone :-) yet.. why not the coaxial digital out ? Normal optical cables are not that expensive, why not just by one and try ? A temporary answer: if you can use digital inputs on something why not give it a try, it's the prefered input for most recivers, if it is a reciever you got ? Hi Mnyb The squeezebox is plugged into a Pioneer VSX-9120TXH-K A/V receiver using RCA cables. But I can use both coaxial and optical cables. I am not sure as to the difference so in your opinion what would be the way to go here. Edaon -- Logon19 Logon19's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18658 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49666 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox v3 cabling ?
I would guess your Pioneer doesn't pass analogue input straight through to the amplification stage, and will probably digitise the inputs, then convert back to analogue on the outputs. Most AV amps do this as far as i'm aware. So you are usually far better using a digital connection for AV amps. As for whether that should be optical or coax, I really couldn't say. I certainally wouldn't be able to tell if there was a difference or not. My SB3 is connected via optical because the optical input on my amp was mapped to the 'CD' input which made more sense at the time. -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49666 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] To DAC or Not to DAC
bhaagensen;318382 Wrote: I agree that at higher bit rates lossy can sound quite good, and even the low bitrates are OK for background listening and such. But seriously, when listening to music, and by that I mean sitting in the sweet spot with no books, newspapers, laptops etc, turn the volume up and the lights down. Then 128k sounds nothing but crappy. Of course crappy is relative to some baseline defined by the overall setup. Better dacs, speakers, etc will move the crappy-threshold. But the point is that the quality is so much worse than it could be with proper source material. If the difference is not that significant in a system with specs such as yours, then there must be something else missing in the setup, such as room acoustics, speaker placement etc. :) Yes, I am in the sweet spot, lights down, refrigerator not running, eyes closed, etc, etc. and I'm telling you the 128k stream sounds wonderful. 3-dimensional, detailed, coherent, very musical. I am surprised by how good it sounds. My speaker placement, room acoustics, etc are all in good shape. I can play an SACD of the same recording I'm hearing on Pandora, but this does not make the 128k version sound 'crappy' at all. The SACD has even more detail and transparency but the 128k version still sounds really good, I can't hear anything wrong with it on most recordings. Maybe it would help if you could describe what you hear as 'crappy' when listening to the 128k streams and I can compare it to what I'm hearing. -- kh6idf kh6idf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16848 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49648 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New transporter firmware (v.40) in nightlies
I've also had a problem running 7.01 SC but upgrading the TP to FW v43. The update happens automatically, but nothing plays. The TP screen says it plays but there's no meter movement or time display change. The web interface for the TP also shows nothing happening. I did do a reset (1+power) which did nothing. I had to do a factory reset (ADD+power) to get it back to a point where I could reset back to FW v.37. Any ideas? -- Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg - San Diego - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric Seaberg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7896 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42960 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Thanks a lot for the advice. This is one of my perplexed questions about high-end audio equipment: what exactly a pre-amp does other than source switching and volume control (assuming line level amplification is not needed in my system)? If I have a decent source equipment such as the Transporter or a good CD player with volume control, do I still need the pre-amp? -- vincentyan vincentyan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17868 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
darrenyeats;317708 Wrote: A TP can play a decent range of volumes without the SNR dipping below 96db (the SNR of 16 bits). You don't need any more SNR than that to play red book in all its glory. IMO for red book on a TP a preamp will result in more distortion overall and at best divert funds from valuable areas to an unnecessary (in SQ terms) piece of equipment. So, you are completely right to wait on buying the pre until you have other sources that make it necessary...the only point I would make is that multiple sources is the _only_ reason you would invest in a pre playing red book on a TP. Darren Is there a volume level on the Transporter that corresponds to this 96db SNR? Not sure if my question is overly simplifying the issue. -- vantagesc vantagesc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14464 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What DAC to use?
pfarrell;318315 Wrote: eiret wrote: Do you use digital or analog out from DAC1? I'm not sfraser, but the purpose of a DAC is to use the analog out. Digital in, analog out. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ Yep, digital out from the SB3 to the DAC1 and analog out from the DAC1 to the preamp AUX input. Also analog out from the SB3 directly to the preamp (analog)CD input. -- sfraser 2 Chan. System SB3-Benchmark DAC-1- Bryston(BP-25,3B)-PMC TB2 Home Theater System SB2- Bryston(SP1,4B,4B,2B,2B)- PSB Stratus Goldi Basement System SB2- Parasound Preamp (carver M1.0t) -Klipsch La Scala's Bedroom System SB2- Sony BoomBox Rear Deck/Patio Duet- Yamaha Reciever- PSB Mini's, sfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49316 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] To DAC or Not to DAC
kh6idf;318408 Wrote: Maybe it would help if you could describe what you hear as 'crappy' when listening to the 128k streams and I can compare it to what I'm hearing. I think such a calm reply to a post containing the word crap deserves some feedback:) I had a quick listen to some tracks on Rhapsody (which incidently is now 192kbps and already a fair improvement from 128kbps) and compared with my cd-rips. Basically what I find lacking is resolution and texture. To me that means that the reverb-sounds, which are very important for percieved sound quality (e.g. 3d-ness) just aren't very good. I also believe that the texture thing is the popular name for harmonics. So while the sound is detailed in some sense, there is always something missing. To me its particularily easy to hear in vocals, making them sound thin. At 128kbps it even goes so far as to starting to sound tincan-ish. The bass I don't have any comments as it is has proved difficult for me to achieve particularily good bass control in my listening environment (I don't like or have headphones, but the difference between lossy/looseless tends to be even more striking in headphones). Lossy encoders aren't stupid, they don't remove separate sounds, but they do remove texture and fine details, or more specifically they assume that in a full orchestra sound picture, some sounds dominate others to the extent that the latter can be removed or added without audible effects. Of course this is true up to a certain not well defined limit. I had a listen to the following tracks which you could try if you've got Rhapsody. Carla Bruni on Those Dancing Days are Gone from No Promises. Or both the guitar and vocals on Rose of my Heart by Johnny Cash of A Hundred Highways. On cd-rips I can hear the individual strings being hit, while the whole thing is more messy on Rhapsody. You could also try movement no. 4 from Elgars Cello Concerto directed by Barbirolli and performed by Jaquline du Pre. But my point eariler was also that its relative. Even 128kbit sounds better on my main system than on my Audioengine 5's which I have praised and recommended to many. Anyway, sorry about the long post... -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49648 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] To DAC or Not to DAC
No problem, I appreciate your reply. I am not a Rhapsody user, but I'll see if I can find the same tracks elsewhere or maybe sign up for a free trial of Rhapsody - I see there is a 30 day free trial so I'll probably use this opportunity to check it out. I can try to listen to the tracks you mentioned, but I don't have the better quality versions to compare to. On a few songs where I did have the original recording, the 128k MP3 sounds very good, nothing objectionable at all, and when I play the original (the case I am thinking of was a track by Alison Krauss + Union Station off the Live 2-SACD set) I do hear more detail, clarity and 3-d effect, but the 128k had all of those qualities, just less detailed, but it still sounded good. I recently did a number of changes to my system, which before was sounding a bit 'thin' as you describe. But now it has very nice bass/upper bass/lower midrange which forms a nice solid 3-d image. It's very 'coherent', so if a player slaps the strings on a guitar it sounds realistic, I get the feeling there is someone in the room in front of me slapping those strings. It's definitely a lot more involving to listen to now, even with 128k. See if you can get to my Pandora profile page here: http://www.pandora.com/people/kh6idf1 and if you can see the few songs I have bookmarked. I usually bookmark ones that sound especially good. I'll try to add some more if I get a chance over the next few days. You should also be able to play my 73 stations I have set up - maybe you can find some overlap in our musical tastes. The station list will change as I delete some and add others of course. -- kh6idf kh6idf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16848 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49648 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last.fm bitrate
kh6idf;318318 Wrote: Thought I would jump in here and say I am VERY pleased with the sound quality I'm getting with 128kbps streams from my SB3 on Pandora Last.fm. I'm using an (inexpensive) external DAC and a good hi fi system. I spent the last hour or two listening to mostly Pandora and the sound was really beautiful on nearly every recording. When I bought the SB3 I thought it would be merely acceptable for background listening but it is now my main source of music, mostly using Pandora, and I haven't turned my CD/SACD player on in weeks. It's really that good and this is at 128kbps! I agree, it's one of the many things that surprised me about the SB. It's way more agreeable than fm radio. Unless you have a real quiet room and are listening for flaws it's great. I've had more than a few people think I was playing from cd's I had made. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox v3 cabling ?
funkstar;318396 Wrote: I would guess your Pioneer doesn't pass analogue input straight through to the amplification stage, and will probably digitise the inputs, then convert back to analogue on the outputs. Most AV amps do this as far as i'm aware. So you are usually far better using a digital connection for AV amps. As for whether that should be optical or coax, I really couldn't say. I certainally wouldn't be able to tell if there was a difference or not. My SB3 is connected via optical because the optical input on my amp was mapped to the 'CD' input which made more sense at the time. Actually a lot of the higher end AV receivers have one or more direct modes. In that case it's nice to have the SB hooked up both ways not only for comparison but to take advantage of certain music that can make use of dsp modes. My Yamaha has a dsp mode that is taken from the same place as one of the Charlie Parker albums. It does add some ambiance to the listening experience. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49666 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
The inhertent noise floor of any electronic component is around 120 db , ie round 21 bits so 24 bit SN ratios (144db) are rubbish. IE there is no hifi component that can give you a snr of 144db , 120db is prolly all thats achievable by even the best component. Ostensibly , if you really believe upsampling to 24 bits and attenuating the signal is not harmful to it , then the 96 db mark would be at 2/3rds full volume assuming the attenuation scaling is linear. (16/24) However do not believe that upsampling to 24 bits will allow you a 1/3rd attenuation with no harm to the signal. IE you are being told that -48db (6 db per bit) will be totally non destructive and only after that will you hear the effects of digital attenuation. If you beleive digital attn is totally non destructive , go run your Digital signal thru a 12/18 db Attenution and then run it back thru a 12/18db gain in the 24 bit processor and see if the signal you get is the same as the original.. The SB/TP is a sort of computer - these do have glitches and its pretty easy for it to send a 0dbfs signal to your amp - thats gonna do something to your speakers ! So either use a pre or inline attn. I dont really worry about it that much as my speakers are DSP actives and have protective circuitry for such an eventuality. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Rodney_Gold wrote: The inhertent noise floor of any electronic component is around 120 db , ie round 21 bits so 24 bit SN ratios (144db) are rubbish. IE there is no hifi component that can give you a snr of 144db , 120db is prolly all thats achievable by even the best component. Perhaps with the best components with the best power on the best day. 100dB is a lot more realistic. The SB/TP is a sort of computer - these do have glitches and its pretty easy for it to send a 0dbfs signal to your amp I would not say pretty easy but the SB/TP are more than sort of a computer, they are computers. They are programmable devices. That is why there are occasional firmware upgrades. And as all computers, there is a chance that they will send WFO signal to downstream stuff. I've never had it happen in 5+ years and many different Slim devices, but the probability is not zero, so I agree that its not prudent to have a setup that will blow up amps, speakers, and the house when the occasional bug causes the 0dB signal (usually white noise) down the wires. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
