[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
Dear all, I'm considering buying one of these new, shiny Squeezebox devices. :-) I'd call myself a high fidelity enthusiast with a mid-range audio set. I'm currently using a Lavry DA10 DAC connected to a older CD transport. My question is: Which current Squeezebox device _excluding_ the Transporter is 'best' for the audio enthusiast who already has a DAC? 'Best' meaning has the best sound quality / most hi-fi potential... I'm excluding the Transporter as a) it's expensive and right now I only want to test how Squeezebox works for me, and b) I already have a good DAC. I know this can be a somewhat subjective answer, but I'm hoping you'll have some tips. And I will read the arguments given carefully. In terms of screen I think all current devices would work for me -- the room is not so large, and I think I will be able to read the screen of all current models. Just curious, I don't suppose any of the devices can do AES/EBU output to the DAC? Thank you, -- MortyEU MortyEU's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
Hi Morty, welcome to the forums. If you can wait, then get a Squeezebox Touch. It should be out soon. Otherwise you can get a Classic. None of them has AES/EBU. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Cyrus 8xp - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
AES/EBU is a defective technology, use coax S/PDIF instead. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
seanadams;484158 Wrote: AES/EBU is a defective technology, use coax S/PDIF instead. Wait? What? I thought the reason that they were included on the TP was because they fixed the S/PDIF issue with embedded clock. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
Hello and welcome to the Forum. I echo Sean's post, use the Coax S/PDIF connection to your DAC. And other then the TP, the up coming Touch has the next best S/PDIF output. If you have to have a Squeezebox now, I say buy the SB Classic. The Touch will make a killer digital transport with native 24/96 output and from beta testing I can highly recommend the Coax S/PDIF output. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
SuperQ;484186 Wrote: Wait? What? I thought the reason that they were included on the TP was because they fixed the S/PDIF issue with embedded clock. You're think of the word clock feature. AES/EBU doesn't fix anything in s/pdif, it makes it worse. It uses wiring and connectors that lack the bandwidth and impedance matching for RF signaling. Just because XLRs are suitable for analog audio doesn't make them good for high frequencies. It's included on Transporter frankly because of legacy expectations, and perhaps in a pro environment you might need it for one reason or another (got the cable handy, used up all the other inputs, etc) but I don't recommend it. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
SuperQ;484186 Wrote: Wait? What? I thought the reason that they were included on the TP was because they fixed the S/PDIF issue with embedded clock. Nah - it's the same old song over slightly different cable/connectors. Still recovers the clock the same way. I'm intrigued as to why Sean thinks it's WORSE than s/pdif though. Personally I'd always classified it as no better... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
Its nice to know someone else agrees with me about AES EBU, I always thought I was the lone voice in the wilderness. Anyway I see two main reasons for the inferiority of AES/EBU. 1. XLRs are horrible RF connectors. In order to send a square wave fairly faithfully the interface must support a bandwidth many times higher than the frequency of the square wave. For the signals in question that is getting well up into the RF spectrum where the XLRs are terrible. The impedance varies radically with frequency which will cause all kinds of bizarre reflections. The choice of XLR was a very poor choice. 2. Output voltage. The S/PDIF electrical spec is 0.5V into 75ohms, but the AES/EBU is 3-5V into 110 ohms. Think about that for a second, what happens when you put 5volts across 110 ohms? You get almost 50mA of current flowing. This means the driver sitting in the source box has to be able to dump between 30-50ma into the cable. That causes huge current spikes in the power and ground pins of the driver chip which is going to cause big noise spikes in the power and ground planes of the board. If you are not extremely careful that is going to cause significant jitter in the output signal. All modern high speed interfaces use less than 0.5V signal. As far as I can tell the XLRs were chosen because studios had lots of microphone cables and wanted to use them. Because they are such lousy RF transmission lines they had to go with high voltages to make sure there was some signal left at the end. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Problem with Transporter Toslink Input
update on this issue: on a hunch, i replaced the mini-toslink adapter which plugs into the mac mini, with a slightly different model, and...voila, it works! this does not explain why the other adapter worked fine into another dac, nor why a third adapter also failed w/ the transporter. -- netchord netchord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70437 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Problem with Transporter Toslink Input
It seems the receiver in Transporter just needed more light. If the ends weren't well aligned, didn't butt close enough together, had poorly polished surfaces, or weren't of a transmissive enough material then that would explain the difference. I'm not really an optics expert, but then again I suspect neither are the guys who manufacture plastic toslink adaptors... -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70437 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Problem with Transporter Toslink Input
seanadams;484405 Wrote: It seems the receiver in Transporter just needed more light. If the ends weren't well aligned, didn't butt close enough together, had poorly polished surfaces, or weren't of a transmissive enough material then that would explain the difference. I'm not really an optics expert, but then again I suspect neither are the guys who manufacture plastic toslink adaptors... makes sense. oddly, one of the ones that didn't work was the audiophile adapter from Audioquest ($10). -- netchord netchord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70437 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Problem with Transporter Toslink Input
Happy to see that this worked out! :) -- Keymaster Keymaster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30281 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70437 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
empty99;483409 Wrote: I liked my Harmony remote w/ its smart downloadable programing tricks for all my gears but disliked the buttons size and arrangement on it. Totally agree. Although I liked my rechargeable $300 Harmony much more than the AAA sucking flimsy $99 one they sent me as a replacement. My point being, will they replace a broken TP with a NPR-in-the-kitchen worthy Squeeze Radio? -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
dennis55;483447 Wrote: almost two years on, i still enjoy my Transporter whatever border you chose.;) dennis Good to hear - I enjoy mine very much also, but the price of a TP + a worthy DAC can get you in to a few other higher end streaming transports, no? -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
Thank you all for the information you've given. I'm waiting for the Touch and plan to buy it as soon as it becomes available. Would anyone know when that is (in Scandinavia)? iPhone;484204 Wrote: Hello and welcome to the Forum. The Touch will make a killer digital transport with native 24/96 output and from beta testing I can highly recommend the Coax S/PDIF output. That is not clear to me -- I thought the Touch 'only' has optical digital output; it seems that way from the marketing material that is available now... In the photos, the back side with connectors seems identical to the classic? -- MortyEU MortyEU's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
kphinney;484429 Wrote: Good to hear - I enjoy mine very much also, but the price of a TP + a worthy DAC can get you in to a few other higher end streaming transports, no? With all due respect, unless your listening environment is optimally configured, you're chasing a rainbow. Even if it's properly configured, with the exception of voicing I doubt the majority of us could hear the differences between high end DACs being argued about. The Transporter is very, very good and very, very neutral. Preferring a particular voicing does not make one DAC better than another. At the end of the day, all things considered, the DAC that's going to make you happiest is the one whose voicing you prefer. My advice to anyone looking for a high-end DAC is to audition the thing in your own listening environment (good or bad) and choose that which, for whatever reason, sounds better to you. -- audiomuze audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Help: Best new device for audiophile with DAC?
MortyEU;484449 Wrote: That is not clear to me -- I thought the Touch 'only' has optical digital output; it seems that way from the marketing material that is available now... In the photos, the back side with connectors seems identical to the classic? It has coax and a properly designed and tested output circuit... you'll be happy. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
kphinney;484428 Wrote: Totally agree. Although I liked my rechargeable $300 Harmony much more than the AAA sucking flimsy $99 one they sent me as a replacement. My point being, will they replace a broken TP with a NPR-in-the-kitchen worthy Squeeze Radio? Here's hoping that the healthy open-source forums like ours to come up with solutions for the TP when Logitech no longer support it. I am still holding out for a $900 unit (to replace my SB3+MFA3.24DAC) ;^) -- empty99 empty99's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
