Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
pippin wrote: Intuitively I still feel just duplicating the samples as normal oversampling does it should give the best results This is not how oversampling operates in a DAC (or ADC) - which would basically achieve nothing. Oversampling operates exactly as described in the NI link you gave, and in my summary above: the new sample values are determined by an interpolation filter. flimflam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56891 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch/Classic vs cheap USB DAC ?
Does anyone have experience how the audio performance is from a Touch or
Classic with analogue signal compared to a cheap USB DAC (below $100)
used with Raspberry PI/Wandboard/PogoPlug/SheevaPlug or similar ?
Is the Touch significantly better than a cheap USB DAC ?
What about a Squeezebox Classic compared to a cheap USB DAC ?
Is it important if the USB DAC is synchronous or asynchronous at this
price level ?
I'm not really looking for a high-end solution, so something that's
comparable to a Touch would definitely be good enough, I could live with
something that's comparable to a Classic also but it feels pointless to
invest in something new unless it's at least at the same level as a
Squeezebox Classic with analogue outputs.
Since this is a temporary solution while waiting for the Community
Squeeze project to evolve, I'd prefer to not invest more than $100 or
something similar.
If it's worth to get a USB DAC for $100, does anyone have a
recommendation which one to get ?
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
You may also want to try my Android apps 'Squeeze Display'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.squeezedisplay)
and 'RSS Photo Show'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.rssphotoshow)
*Interested in the future of music streaming ? 'ickStream - A world of
music at your fingertips'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStreamp=743516)*.
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Do Bit-perfect Digital S/PDIF Transports Sound The Same?
Comment: What you measure is your measurement DAC (e.g. WM8805 ) receivers capability to cope with the incoming signal. The better the audio DACs digital interface, with all its error corrections implemented, the better the source issues will be suppressed. It doesn't say much about the actual and absolute interface quality. A WM8805 SPDIF receiver is specified with a constant 50ps output jitter. No matter, if you use Toslink or SPDIF. Toslink can exhibit several 100ns of jitter, magnitudes higher then Coax. I don't think that's shown with your measurements. That requires real world measurement equipment, However. Manufacturers like Wolfson promise 50ps fed to your DAC. Your measurements say that these 50ps are not always achieved with your DAC. To me this (your) exercise is useless and misleading. Cheers ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99073 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Hi Pippin, to your underlying question: why do the filtering externally rather than in the DAC chip? The answer is I don't know. When I bypass the internal filter and do it externally using a basic simple filter it sounds much better. And it's not just me. I've done this in blind fashion with a number of people and they all came to the same conclusion, the external filter sounded much better. Looking at the spec sheets for the DAC chips you can tell that they are using cascaded filters. When I use an external FPGA to implement a filter and program it to be cascaded multiple filters, I hear a similar sound, when I implement a simple filter (no cascading) I get the better sound. The conclusion seems to be that it is somehow the cascading of filters that causes the problem. Again no clue at all why this is so, what the mechanism is etc. They ARE different filter functions, they do output different bits, but they are very close to each other. Whatever it is, its not a big difference in the waveform. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Hi there/John. A lot of writing and reading. I tried resampling with SOX and other (reference) tools as discussed at Audio Asylum and elsewhere several times in the past. http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.de/2011/04/tt-resampling.html I never managed to get it working to my satisfaction. Neither realtime, nor offline. The SQ was always worse then the original. Maybe I missed something out. Issues: 1. You need to attenuate the digital signal before you apply the filters to avoid clipping. 2. Realtime SRC is causing higher load on the processor and higher traffic on the entire path. That might translate into audible losses on most of the systems out there. 3. Offline SRC is kind of inflexible, if you change your DAC devices once in a while or if you feed different DACs at home. You always have to keep copies of the originals and the resampled materials. You might have a player which does offline SRC prior to playback and caches a full track/CD on e.g. a ramdisk. But that's not possible in a LMS environment. 4. No filter is lossless. 5. If you stay with 16bit you have to re-dither the already dithered material. E.g. You can't do 16 bit to 24bit conversions on LMS if you stream PCM. You need to re-encode PCM to flac again. 6. I've never seen somebody offering an to me acceptable sample rate conversion setting. -- John. Shoot. I'm listening. To me SRC is a questionable workaround to cover the deficiency of rather poor or inflexible HW (firmware + HW) implementations. If your HW implementation is that bad, that SW SRC with all its issues as described above (maybe more) sounds better than your HW SRC, I'd look for a better HW. Please let me know your favorite SOX settings. Cheers ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Ah. OK. So how does this interpolation filter work? In the NI link they show a filter curve that nicely follows the sine wave which will not be so simple for music. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
pippin wrote: Ah. OK. So how does this interpolation filter work? In the NI link they show a filter curve that nicely follows the sine wave which will not be so simple for music. The new samples are inserted and given zero-values. The result is then low-pass filtered. Remember, we have a special case of a bandlimited signal. Sampling theory means we can recover this signal - in all its complex, musical glory, no matter how unintuitive and surprising this first seems. flimflam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56891 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB Touch DSD with a DoP DAC!
This is brilliant. I tried it and it works like a charm. So now FLAC files with artwork and metadata have DSD audio inside of them! I am using a Chord Chordette QuteHD and it plays them in native DSD without any problems and also gapless perfectly too. The FLAC compression isn't working too well. My compressed bitrates are around 5500Mbps and this is with FLAC 1.21 set to level 8, the highest compression. The saving from ISO is negligible. Are SACD ISOs already compressed? Leica's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58906 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch/Classic vs cheap USB DAC ?
Hi Erland, two weeks ago I bought a ' HifiMeDIY SABRE DAC ' (http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/productpath=62product_id=87) based on good 'reviews' (http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifimediy-sabre-usb-dac/reviews) I read after finding this thing on RaspiFy; I bought it just for curiosity, as a toy ... I run it async with the recommended PSU attached to a Pi with piCorePlayer and I have to say - it's excellent. Just yesterday I did a comparison against a Linn Majik DS ( 2400,-). A friend is kind of audiophile and he owns the right gear: Linn Majik DS network player and Linn pre-Amp, Threshold T400 power amp and high end CANTON speakers. Pretty impressive setup. He runs LMS and Squeezeboxes as well and feeds the Linn through SB controllers by means of Skweezy DS plugin - so it was simple to integrate piCorePlayer into his setup. We switched between the Majik and the SABRE: Admitted, there is an audible difference between the Linn and the SABRE - but you really have to look for it. We listened to Jeann Michel Jarre (Aero), Yello (Touch), Dire Straits (Brother in Arms) and Flim the BB's - all in 44/16 - and some classical/acoustic music in 96/24. I had the impression, that for some extreme passages the sound was a tiny bit 'sharper' whereas the Linn masters even those parts a bit more relaxed - overall, the difference was too small to be noticed. This little thing sounds much better than the price would suggest - and I would certainly recommend it. Yesterday I learned in a dramatical fashion, that the amps and speakers are so much more important in order to have good sound than the DAC - and I got the impression that you're not even able to notice the difference unless you have such a potent gear. I'm curious to hear the opinion of others. Günther Primary: LMS on Win 7 PC, 4 SBT, 1 Duet, 1 piCorePlayer HifiMeDIY Sabre II DAC, 2 Duet Controller, 2 iPods, 1 iPhone (iPeng), Sony XPeria Mini ION, Android Tablet (SqueezeControl, OrangeSqueeze, SqueezeCommander) -- Secondary: Mobile Server based on SqueezePlug on RaspBerry PI cadfish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58296 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99141 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB Touch DSD with a DoP DAC!
Leica wrote: This is brilliant. I tried it and it works like a charm. So now FLAC files with artwork and metadata have DSD audio inside of them! I am using a Chord Chordette QuteHD and it plays them in native DSD without any problems and also gapless perfectly too. The FLAC compression isn't working too well. My compressed bitrates are around 5500Mbps and this is with FLAC 1.21 set to level 8, the highest compression. The saving from ISO is negligible. Are SACD ISOs already compressed? Are you using Touch to output to chordette qutehd? I thought qutehd dac requires proprietary driver and Triode EDO plugin does not qutehd?? adyc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12564 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB Touch DSD with a DoP DAC!
adyc wrote: Are you using Touch to output to chordette qutehd? I thought qutehd dac requires proprietary driver and Triode EDO plugin does not qutehd?? Sorry no, I did not use the Touch. I sold my Touch a while ago and am currently looking to build a Raspberry Pi based Touch equivalent. I am using the QuteHD via USB and the software is JRiver and foobar2000. With foobar2000 it has a digital volume control in WASAPI and it is very interesting using this when playing these DSD/FLAC files. You get a hiss sound and 176kHz LED from the DAC, but as soon as you move the volume slider up to the maximum the DAC magically lights up the DSD LED and you get glorious music! So at 100% volume the output is bit-perfect and the DAC instantly recognises the stream as DSD. Leica's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58906 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
