[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Calling all audiophiles - Uncompressed or lossless?
Hi, Sounds like a reasonable question to me and it all comes down to belief. If you believe the result of compressing and uncompressing is the same as the original then there's no problem choosing the compressed version. Now looking at your questions: 1) Why do I believe lossless compressions + decompression are 'perfect'. I didn't check the source code, I haven't actually compared before and after files. In fact the only check I have personally performed is that file sizes of the WAV before and after the process are the same. So why do I believe? a) firstly it is claimed to work b) I can hear no difference c) there are ways to check the process is perfect even if I haven't performed them d) I understand how to write my own test so I believe I could check myself 2) For food, why do I not believe? a) no one has ever claimed it b) I cannot conceive how it could work c) I believe that the 'information' encoded in the water cannot be preserved (ie location and energy of the water molecules) To take your analogy further, if someone could dehydrate a live mouse and then rehydrate the mouse back to a living active state I'd start to get much more comfortable about a ham sandwich! Finally, here's some beliefs that I think you have that you might not even have considered. These are all perfectly sound beliefs, but for the most part that's all they are until you have done some personal testing. (I believe them too and I haven't tested them!) 1) storage media doesn't matter, you believe slim server would work if the files were read from Hard Disk, CD ROM, DVD, or memory stick. 2) The quality, grade and type of ethernet cabling do not make any difference. 3) The operating system does not make any difference, you get the same result if you server files from a Windows PC, a MAC, a linux box, or Symbian PalmOs 4) Conversion from ISO format to WAV doesn't matter (one lossless format to another). What is stored on an audio CD is NOT wav files. 5) Renaming you WAV files makes no difference - this has already changed the structure of the information encoded on the storage media 6) Wearing a yellow hat on Tuesday does not improve the sound. I put in 6 deliberately simply to raise the point about why you believe it. I assume you have not done blind ABX tests with and without a yellow hat, yet you are able to be confident it makes no difference (as am I). So in summary, for IT we believe that lossless makes no difference because: 1) personal evidence gives no counter examples (we can't hear a difference and every test we have performed shows they are the same) 2) we have faith in the community that developed the tools 3) we believe we could independently test it if we chose to. That's all a bit deep and philosophical and paraphrases a lots of philosphy of science. But it's interesting to question even deeply held beliefs once in a while. Malcolm -- mwphoto http://www.last.fm/user/mwphoto/ mwphoto's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=652 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21700 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AB Testing Support
Hi All, Since AB testing comes up a lot (particularly with FLAC) I thought it would be useful to be able to do this without a massive amount of effort. What I have done is develop a script that takes an original WAV file and chops it into regular chunks. These chunks are then (on a random basis) converted to FLAC. When you listen to the chunks in sequence the original song becomes seamless, but the encoding method changes at random. So if you believe you can tell a difference you should be able to hear the change. I have to say, I did this for myself and I am personally convinced that I can hear no difference (I sort of knew it before, but now I believe it in my soul) I've attached the script, there is some documentation, but at present there's no support. Anyone familiar with perl will have no problem, others might struggle using it. I may develop it further, but have no time right now. I'm just throwing it out there to see who's interested. Malcolm Feel free to post your comments back here, try it out, develop it further etc. +---+ |Filename: createABTest.zip | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=957| +---+ -- mwphoto mwphoto's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=652 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21545 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AB Testing Support
Here's a new version that supports MP3 (same caveats as before, be prepared to get into the code) I've taken a slightly different approach for MP3 (it works the same as it used to with FLAC). I found a worryingly small difference between MP3 and WAV when I tested (I thought I had better ears!) Malcolm It strikes me that there's other 'audio' test stuff that could be done here. In particular I was thinking of 'random' test signal that beeps at different amplitudes, frequencies and locations across the sound stage. You could use it to determine the response of your setup (including your ears). I'll have a think and maybe develop something. +---+ |Filename: createABTest.zip | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=959| +---+ -- mwphoto mwphoto's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=652 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21545 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Denon AVR-4806 with modified Squeeze Box???
richidoo Wrote: Flac is not wav, it is flac. But don't forget the layer of hardware and software added between the flac file and your ears which is not present with wav. Flac is far more dependent on the quality of these resources than wav is, and so is more sensitive to the playback equipment than wav. SQB can play both, so a comparison is easy to perform and is valid since all other system components remain equal. The difference in audio quality between wav and flac formats as played by SQB3 is definitely audible if both the listening equipment and the listener's expectations are sufficiently transparent. Rich This has been raised many times before, and there are some observations that are worth noting. 1) the path when playing FLAC is server - SQB - decode FLAC - internal DAC - analogue out or server - SQB - decode FLAC - digital out 2) the path when playing WAV is server - SQB - internal DAC - analogue out or server - SQB - digital out 3) The result of decoding FLAC is identical to the original WAV and this can be verified in a number of ways (various users have save the output digital stream of the digital outs of a SQB and shown they are bit perfect identical) 4) If there is an audio difference between the 2 it could be caused by: a) differing levels of jitter due to processor load while decoding FLAC. b) a different EM environment caused by the processor when decoding FLAC impacting the analogue out. 5) No user has yet been able to detect a difference in blind AB testing. (Just to be clear that's no-one, not 'very few', no-one) 6) This includes users that believed 'FLAC must be different/degrading' So it is just possible a particular user with a particular system could detect an audio difference between WAV and FLAC the fact that it hasn't happened yet would suggest it is very minor. If you are in a position to repeat a blind AB test and succeed in telling the difference between FLAC and WAV it would be interesting to hear the results. Especially as such a situation is almost guaranteed to get SlimDevices staff interested enough to want to fix up the SQB so it doesn't happen. Malcolm -- mwphoto mwphoto's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=652 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21333 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Where is the incredible sound?
pablolie Wrote: I want to focus my effort on digitizing my collection and enjoying the convenience. That's a good reason for not working hard on debugging your environment (although it's not a choice I would make). I would suggest that it might be worth your while ripping your collection to FLAC and converting to MP3 in anticipation of further slimserver releases, hardware upgrades, time etc. It would be a shame to upgrade to 6.5 in March and find all your issues have gone, but all your collection is MP3. Malcolm -- mwphoto mwphoto's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=652 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
