Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hearing the differences
garym;625621 Wrote: MCR, I enjoy many of the threads you start with philosophical questions and I think of you as a very high quality troll So rate his posts on the official Sean Adams troll metric. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87051 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The end of the CD player :-)
dave77;487514 Wrote: Linn still make DVD players though, I assume they are not phasing those out Today, probably not. But DVD is dying too. The BlueRay war was a case of winning the battle, but losing anyway, they vanquished HD-DVD, but BlueRay disk sales are not what the studios expected. Its all download now. I expect the trend is unstoppable. When DVDs came out, I bought three players and perhaps 100 DVDs, but I don't use them. Unlike music, where I want to listen to it over and over, except for a tiny number of movies, I watch them once and am done. Perhaps after 10 years I'll watch it again if its really great. But most movies are not great, and after ten years, none of my initial set of DVD players work. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71619 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audio quality of very long RCA cables...
Themis wrote: Perhaps with an XLR cable and the appropriate adapters each side ? No, XRL is three wire, ground and + signal and - signal. The two +/- are how it suppresses noise. Nothing with two wires is going to work for long cables. How long is long is a personal question, to me, 6 feet (two meters) is all I trust. It depends on so many other things, many of which are uncontrollable. Mains cables, even in walls, florescent lights, etc. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68131 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NEW RULES: RE:Behavior in this discussion area
kphinney;377855 Wrote: but is the above an example of what we are NOT supposed to do?? Sorry, in review, it was an example of being rude. Happy New Year, I'll try to do better -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54700 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Economist Article: Analogue or Digital
cliveb;361003 Wrote: my impression is that the engineers couldn't give a rat's arse how much clipping they get. Google Loudness wars Nearly all recording engineers try very hard to eliminate clipping in the digital domain. Mastering engineers have a gun to their head with the client yelling make it louder The reality is that old analog tape decks would not really clip, they would compress as they saturate. But in the digital world, once you get to 64K in a 16 bit value, its all over. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55212 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Economist Article: Analogue or Digital
cliveb;361068 Wrote: I get the uneasy impression that there are a large number of so-called engineers who actually believe that the way it's done these days is how it should be. It could be. There was a lot of new blood in the industry in the early years this century. And the economics of it don't make it attractive for many old pros, the total money is down, and the new blood works cheap. I don't have much experience working with the new kids, but I hope they were trained better. Perhaps not. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55212 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter compared with Linn Sneaky DS
harmonic;356728 Wrote: That makes you both hypocritc and a liar Looks like a personal attack and insult to me, cause to lock the thread. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54622 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Not all 24/96 flac's are created equal
This is a screen capture of the specs page for the Telefunken ELA 251 microphone. http://www.telefunkenusa.com/products/Ela%20M%2025x%20Manual.pdf Notice: 1) it has no attempt to describe the frequency response over 15kHz. 2) the slope of the response from about 11kHz to 15Khz is clearly negative 3) the slope shows a huge and rapid fall off of response above 13kHz +---+ |Filename: telefunken_ela_251.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6056| +---+ -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41144 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
For example, here is the Neumann site's spec sheet on the U87 mic, a classic go to mic for vocals http://www.neumann.com/zoom.php?zoomimg=./assets/diagrams/u87ai_diagrams.htmzoomlabel=Diagramw=878h=278 The classic Neumann M50 is spec'd at Frequency response: 40 - 16 000 cps meaning 40 hZ to 16kHz in modern language -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-frequency content of 24/96 files?
alekz;316365 Wrote: This is the link to the picture: http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/alekz-net/audio/samples/2L50SACD_tr1_96k_stereowav.png This shows all the over 20kHz stuff down 90 to 100 dB. That means it is realistically non-existent. Typically, down 70 dB means cut out completely since humans only have about 90dB of range. Plus a quiet living room is typically 35dB, and threshold of pain is about 96dB above that. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] About to sell my CD player--will SB3 be enough??
I never had anything in the class of the Ayre CD, I did have a high end Pioneer player, and many others. As soon as I got my first SqueezeBox, I was converted. There is nothing about physical CDs that appeal to me. For the four or five years since I started drinking Sean's Koolaide, I touch a CD only to rip it to flac, or to load into my car's jukebox for road trips. I've never used the normal remotes, for years I used fishbone on a laptop as the sole control. Then I got a Controller. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does the Transporter outperform SACD (2ch)?
atrocity;311245 Wrote: It's too bad most (all?) of the hybrid SACDs from old analog masters (Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Pink Floyd) contain DSD to PCM conversions on their redbook CD layer. RedBook is PCM. To get PCM, you have to convert it. Whether or not there was anything there to being with. Old masters were typically either 2 24 track or 1/2 stereo. The terms get misused a bunch. The tracking tapes were nearly always 2 24 track, unless you go back to pre-Sargent Peppers days. (Some of the early Beatles stuff was recorded in mono.). The 24 tracks are then mixed down to stereo and put on two track 1/2 tapes sent to the mastering engineer. For Vinyl, mastering was an art. So the mater tape in was really the 'mix down' tape, and the output of the mastering engineer was stereo sent to the pressing plant. None of the 2 machine had much frequency response above 20kHz. Most didn't have any, but it hard to generalize. Most used Dolby or something like it, long before Dolby became popular in the mass market. If the tracking was done on a typical Struder 2 machine with Dolby, there isn't much pure signal about the 20kHz that red book can cover. And Dolby processing is audible if you pay attention and have good gear. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48748 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Vibration Control on SB or power supply
dennis55;303102 Wrote: Black Ravioli.that's what it looks like!. it was developed by an acoustician for sound control in underwater situations i.e.submarines. I wonder how close it is to the stuff they use in subs. The Navies of the world are very serious about keeping subs quiet, but most consider it national security technology. Which means you can't export it. Of course, you could make a 'civilian' version that is not quiet as quite, and could cost less. Even audiophiles can't spend money like a Navy can. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47786 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Amp has started popping
No clue as to the cause, here is a hint at isolating the problem: Do you have any other sources? An FM tuner would be idea, something you can plug into the same connections on the amp and play music for a while? Or try other RCA connectors on the amp, and see if that changes anything. I had a Sony receiver that worked fine for about a decade and then started getting all sorts of weird stuff, channels dropping out, phono section getting noisy, etc. I did the problem isolation thing for a while and then just replaced it completely. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47751 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Bybee silver bullet, $4200 for four
ByBee is back. These are not complete speaker cables, they are just the connectors. Four of them, no cable. Looks like you'd need two sets to allow two channel connections. Wow. For more, see the current The Absolute Sound June/jul7 2008 -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47613 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs
Is this in the current unstable builds? or just testing? I'm running SqueezeCenter Version: 7.1 - 18180 - Debian - EN - utf8 from unstable, and see 40, not 42 thx -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] please urgent answer - want to be shure
You can't be sure. (Shure is an audio company, makes nice microphones). The recommendation is to validate that the system can run at wide open volume from your SB3, through the amp to the speakers. If you can listen to it, then you are probably fine. But if you need to use the SB3's volume control to keep from frying the tweeters, then you may have a problem in the rare case that the SB3 software gets weird, has a bug, etc. So the recommendation is that if your system can't run wide open listening to music, you should get either some attenuators, or use a preamp. There are nice audiophile attenuators that are fairly inexpensive, search the forum archives -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] please help: amp drawing so much power that i get interference from other equipment
opaqueice;290923 Wrote: What about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-HT10DBS-Protector-Suppressor/dp/B0002QPC28 For the price of that, which may or may not work, you could get a nice used amp from ebay -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] please help: amp drawing so much power that i get interference from other equipment
Like most APC products, I can't tell what that unit really does. And its not clear if it can handle 9 amps of load. It might be cheaper to buy a small, cheap amp to use in that house, and use your big one once you move. A small amp need not cost more than $100, and you can't get a UPS that cheaply. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet Sound
Sean says that the DACs are different but sound about the same. He's designed the Receiver to be as good as he can, and he is smarter and more experienced now. He's done the Transporter and the Receiver since he did the SB3. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46079 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Q: 'Alternative' CD formats..SACD, HDCD, XRCD
mrfantasy;287772 Wrote: HDCD and XRCD are mastering techniques that create CDs playable on any player. The end results are 'compatible' with red book audio. So the real impact is that disks released in these formats tend to be mastered with audiophile concerns in mind, rather than mindless Loudness Wars (tm). So they tend to actually sound pretty good. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45839 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Daylight Robbery!
VAT, import duties, etc. can be really painful. Complain to your Member of Parliament and tell him/her you want it lowered. When I was working in Dusseldorf, the ex-pat Americans used to use their yearly home leave trip to stock up on clothing. I remember window shopping and noticing that some Bass Weeguns were three (or maybe four) times the price there than back her in the States. Taxes are the price of civilization. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile Fuses!
Phil Leigh;278772 Wrote: I see no-one has ventured an opinion on why expensive and usually very heavy gauge plugs and cables are a good idea when one phase of the mains has to travel through a teeny tiny fuse...thus undoing all the good work of that chunky cable. I did in http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=278614postcount=12 As others have pointed out, the fuse is short. One could argue that resistance is really measures in x milliohms per foot for any vaguely useful cable, so if the speaker cable is marginal and long, it might make a difference in voltage drop. The fuse element is typically short, fractions of an inch. But once the cable is long, its resistance is big enough then the resistance of the fuse drops out of the equation. In general, there is no point in an four-OUGHT cable when there is a 18 gauge fuse in line. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44602 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile Fuses!
m1abrams;278832 Wrote: DC is just simpler because you do not need to involve Mr. Calculus. Gee, I always thought it was Sir Issac. A lot of this makes zero sense to me. Way back when dinosaurs roamed, I had a Dynaco ST120. It has two beer can sized caps in the power supply so that the power rails could keep making music without worrying about the draw from the wall plate. Even the digital cannons on the 1812 demo CD don't have a long continuous draw. Even at 11. And if they did, it would blow the fuse. Wrist sized power cords just seem like boa constrictors to me. YMMV -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44602 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile Fuses!
Phil Leigh;278479 Wrote: Taking the fuses away is exceedingly dangerous - but annoyingly it does appear to improve sound quality to me...YMMV Short circuiting fuses is not just insanely dangerous, it violates the law, common sense, and can burn down your house and your neighbors. There has to be another way. Its immoral to tell people to short out a fuse. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44602 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Wishlist for Transporter 2
Based on the latest Stereophile, it needs to have a price tag to match the Linn Klimax DS. Which lists for only $20,000 per unit. Probably still to cheap for some audiophiles. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43466 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Doh! Now we need 24-bit/176.4kHz on the Transporter!
opaqueice;260316 Wrote: the SACD versions did tend to sound better than the CD releases - but evidently because of mastering differences, not resolution. Makes sense, as SACD is supposed to be an audiophile format, and thus there is no need for loudness wars. Even Redbook can sound impressive if properly mastered and mixed. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41824 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] lust object speakers
SuperQ;259927 Wrote: Personally, I really love my Transporter for both style and quality reasons. Also, I wish magnepans were compatible with my cats ;) I wish that quads, or maggie's, were compatible with my wife. And I wish I had a house that could handle Klipshorns and a flea power SET amp. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42393 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Yet more on Loudness Wars
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/1619/the_death_of_high_fidelity/print aka http://tinyurl.com/26d9la ROBERT LEVINE Posted Dec 26, 2007 1:27 PM Advertisement David Bendeth, a producer who works with rock bands like Hawthorne Heights and Paramore, knows that the albums he makes are often played through tiny computer speakers by fans who are busy surfing the Internet. So he's not surprised when record labels ask the mastering engineers who work on his CDs to crank up the sound levels so high that even the soft parts sound loud. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41481 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting Articles in The Absolute Sound
jt25741;246624 Wrote: ...high-enders which have little technical knowledge/patience to sting together a Slimserver based setup. At the same time, many of these same folks(TAS readership) may have expendable income which allows them to dump $20K or so on some basic technology that most of us use here for free or darn close to free, relatively speaking. Yes, a typical TAS reader is not going to be able to setup a PC with a SlimServer and wifi. There is a small market out there servicing them, they have tons of money and are willing to spend it. But High End audio is a fickle market, and most of them care as much about look and feel as sound. BTW, $20K is nothing, they have lots of cables that the TAS editors swear are great that cost thousands of dollars. $10K is a low end CD player for some of these guys. And they are nearly all guys. Look at the ads, they have beautiful women who will love you once you buy this thing, that wire, or some other amp. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40707 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any SB2 owners want to upgrade?
crooner;236564 Wrote: I hope Slim Devices/Logitech gives the upcoming SB4 a more conventional enclosure. I would not hold my breadth for this hope. Rumours are that sales went up significantly when the SB3 came out. As we all know, inside a SB2 and SB3 are identical, but the SB3 package connects with the customers and the customer's wallets. I'd lobby instead for SqueezeBox, OEM version that skips the case. Probably be no cheaper, but would server as a better DIY base. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39471 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Integrated amp versus active speakers
pablolie;235130 Wrote: I like the concept. It would be hard to not to have think about cabling at all, though. ;-) Could be complimentary, or Logi could do it. Eliminating cabling is a good thing (tm). No more is a big buck speaker wire worthwhile rants, since the speaker wire would be internal to the powered speaker and then interconnect would be about five inches long. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Integrated amp versus active speakers
I think many audiophiles enjoy the tweaking more than listening to music. With powered wireless speakers, you still can argue about the IEC cord, and how $5 cords are bad, and $100 ones start to remove a veil. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mid life hi-fi crisis
Monty_W;234161 Wrote: I moved away from Naim speakers (Allaes) and went Sonus Faber and this helped. Using the Mac/DAC1 has really wetted my apetite - if a SB3 into a Dac is sonically better then I need to give it a try. I'm not sure that SB-DAC1 will be 'much' better than mac-DAC1. As others have said, its the DAC-1 that makes the sound. But I too have Sonus Fabers, which I drove with my DAC1, and I loved it. Some audiophiles say that the DAC-1 is too 'clinical'. I don't know exactly what they mean, but my Sonus Fabers sound great fed by the DAC-1. Perhaps its because the Sonus Fabers aim to be very musical. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39182 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Square waves are not very helpful for audio
No argument, that was my first sentence. But unless you are designing audio gear, I don't see the relevance. The square wave picture on an o'scope provides a great intuitive picture. But as a consumer, I can't use that information once I've bought the amp, wire, etc. You can't feed a square wave through to your speaker, or the infinitely high frequencies will burn the tweeter before you can hear it. And you sure can't sample it, even if you were crazy enough to think it was music. I even had an o'scope a while back, it was very old and the internal caps became un-form-able. I've looked at prices, just for giggles recently, and you can buy a very nice car for the price of a modern o'scope. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38813 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Square waves are not very helpful for audio
Thought this deserves its own thread. Audio amp designers (and testers) use square waves in testing because they can see the amplified square wave and get an instant insight into what the amp is doing. Square waves are very hard to amplify, as they are the infinite sum of an infinite series of sine waves. The 16/44 vs 24/98 thread talks about square waves at 20kHz being sampled. This is at best misleading. For two reasons: 1) music doesn't have any 20kHz square waves 2) you can't sample a 20kHz square wave, per Nyquist's fundamental rules. I think #2 deserves a bit of explaination. Before you can sample any signal, you must pass it through a low pass filter set at the Nyquist frequency. For 44.1 kHz, the filter has to pass signals below 22.05 kHz, and block all signals above 2.05 kHz. Once you've filtered the incoming signal, then you can sample it. But, what is not obvious, is that when you pass a 20kHz square wave signal through a 22.05 kHz low pass filter, the result is a sine wave signal at 20kHz. It may have some spurious harmonics, but the basic output is a sine wave. When you sample the sine wave, you get a stream of bits. When you pass the stream of bits to a DAC, you get a sine wave. You do not get a 20kHz square wave. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38813 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
opaqueice;231264 Wrote: Take the difference between a 20 kHz sqaure wave and a (normalized appropriately) 20 kHz sin wave and you get a series of higher frequency sin waves starting at 60kHz. That's a result of basic Fourier analysis (we don't even need to touch the 20th century for this), and (since we can't hear above around 20kHz) it explains why if you DID go to the trouble of producing a 20kHz square wave it would sound exactly like a 20kHz sin wave. I'm not sure which part you don't agree with. Who do you, opaqueice mean by you. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38813 tries to bring some sense to this general discussion. As mentioned in the alternative thread, pass the square wave through the proper filter, you have a sine wave, which you can sample. And duh, when you reproduce it, you get a sine wave. If I could, I'd set follow-ups about sample theory, square waves, Fourier, Taylor, etc. to http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38813 -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
norderney;231268 Wrote: Sounds quite an impressive piece of kit, but then it should be for £9600.00 I wonder how it compares to the Transporter? Isn't that about $20K US? Wow, it should be fabulous. Of course, for $10K, you can get many years of front row seats at the Lincoln Center. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
I don't see any point in personal attacks. They are uncalled for. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
jt25741;231080 Wrote: Indeed. Nyquist says that any frequency above 2X the sampling frequency is garbage, and must be thrown out(filtered). The key word here is *must*. Its not optional, you must do it. And one of the claims in favor of higher sample rates, and oversampling in general, is that you can use simpler filter circuits. Many early systems had 12dB/octave filters, which really screw up phase. The designers needed the steep slope to avoid causing massive aliasing problems. With 88.2kHz, you can use a 6dB/octave filter and be as free of aliases as a 44.1 with a 12dB/octave filter. The 16 vs 24 argument is less well grounded. Since recording engineers consider -70 dB to be gone, the 96dB provided by 16 bits is overkill, in theory. But there are established audible tests that show that dithering of the 16 bit signal is important. With a few more bits, dithering becomes less important. And in the days of PCs with RAM enough to hold an entire RedBook CD in memory, adding a few bits is easy and cheap. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter MODS - Part II
ted_b;224931 Wrote: Let the flames continue. Interesting datapoint, I checked all the postings since Ted wrote this, and there are zero flames. Please Ted, when you get it, let us know how you like it, and the red wine versus single malt question -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38106 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does the Squeezebox 3 benefit from a Big Ben?
gdg;227346 Wrote: Have you idiots ever even heard a good sound system? Who do you mean you idiots? Did it every occur to you, gdg, that some of us might actually know what we are talking about? These personal attacks that you, gdg, seem to love are at best uncivilized, and at worst make you look like a jerk. If you want to cite your years of experience playing jazz, could you kindly reference which instrument you play? For example, many great jazz guitarists use electric guitars and the tube distortion is a major part of the sound. But then again, perhaps it is a waste of time replying to your attacks. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38379 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is connected to your Transporter?
Transporter - Classe amp - Sonus Faber speakers Balanced using XLR connectors. No other inputs used on TP or amp. No tuner, TV, etc. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC studio monitors: please indulge me and read this...
brjoon1021;218047 Wrote: Would you say that a professional turntable is not suitable for home audio ? Pretty much my only real chance of getting anything to play a record with is going to come from a professional gear/instrument store. In fact, let's start that way, let's assume you HAD to listen to your records with equipment from such a place. What would you purchase ? I can't imagine the rules you are operating under. If all you have are flea market LPs at $5 each, they may not be worth an audiophile rig. One playing with a bad cartridge will wipe out all the high frequency signal. Depending on the rules, I'd be tempted to buy a nice guitar and sell it and buy an audiophile turntable. Its really not the turntable that is the issue, its the cartridge. But you need a turntable that can properly handle the audiophile cart, and that's not the space that DJs live. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37168 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC studio monitors: please indulge me and read this...
brjoon1021;217607 Wrote: 3. I have boxes of records that I bought for $5 at a church auction. All pristine classical records and some good rock like the Police, the Clash, etc... Yeah!. I don't have a record player. Can a pro audio mixing turntable make a decent/good record player ? Your advice on this if you don't mind. Professional turntables are designed for the needs of professional DJs. In the olden days, they were also designed for radio stations, but I don't think any real radio stations have used vinyl for decades. In either use, the professional use is not about audio quality it is about rugged use that will stand up to what DJs do. Which includes all sorts of evil things like back cue'ing, dropping needles, etc. If you subjected an audiophile moving coil cartridge to this abuse, it would die in a minute or two. If there is sonic quality you are trying to extract, I would strongly suggest you get something audiophile oriented, not aimed at DJs. There are a fair number of decent ~~$500 turntables, Project, etc. A pro-audio shop is a good place to get phono preamps that are decent quality and inexpensive. The audiophile shops seem to think that $3000 is a good price for a preamp that really is only good enough to feed into your real, line-level pre-amp. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37168 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Have you tried Studio Monitors (Pro Audio gear...) at home?
Phil Leigh;216826 Wrote: Amusingly, when pro audio (yuck - horrible term) gear is reviewed in audio mags it is often criticised for mediocre imaging (or rather constriction of height and depth...dunno why... bit odd really when you consider what these things are actually being used for...) Yes, it is a terrible term. And lots of pro-audio customers are not close to being professional. The ADAM monitors are fabulous, but even more pricey. http://www.adam-audio.com/ Whatever you do, do not get Yamaha NS10. Sure, they are in every recording studio on the planet, but as examples of crappy speakers, not as samples of something you want to listen to. The NS-10 are famous because if you can make a mix sound good on them, it will sound good on anything. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37059 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiopraise product - will it really output SACD digitally?
DCtoDaylight;215537 Wrote: The legality depends on where you live. Here in Canada, it's perfectly legal ... Lucky guy. Under the DMCA, it is not clear we can legally have this conversation about getting around the DRM. With the commercial failure of SACD, it doesn't matter anyway. And no matter what encoding, there isn't much over 20kHz because all of the studio gear was design for 20-20kHz. Over 20kHz, all the analog stuff falls off at 6dB per octave or steeper. Interesting article in (I think) today's Wall Street Journal, saying that the music industry is doing great financially. It is the record industry that is near death. Said just five years ago, successful artists made 2/3 of their money on CD sales, and under 1/3 on live concerts. Now it is reversed. Mentioned that the current Police tour is selling seats at $900 each, and you can buy the whole Police recorded history for under a hundred bucks. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36917 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann;214345 Wrote: what are RealTraps? Acoustic treatment panels that actually work. http://www.realtraps.com/ Designed and sold buy a musician and recording engineer. Many acoustic treatments do noting that is important. What you need is bass control, and that requires big things since bass notes are big. The E string on a bass guitar (or string bass) is about 41 hz, so the wavelength is about 20 feet long. A piece of foam an inch thick is not going to do anything for it. See the Stereophile site for references. RealTraps actually look like something your SO would allow in the house, altho they are still fairly imposing. I believe, IMHO, YMMV, etc. that acoustic treatment is one of the biggest bang for the buck changes you can make to a system. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi;212471 Wrote: I just moved to another position where I have to work with... Unix, so I'm learning ksh, awk, etc... All this stuff makes me very angry... This is way OT, but use bash, not ksh. I haven't used awk in 15+ years. Learn perl, it has a dumb syntax but can do anything. Plus you can then join the SlimServer developers list. I have to admit that you *need* to use the shell to do serious stuff, and the learning curve is steep. So queue up your favorite tunes on your SqueezeBox to make the time go fast. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann;214316 Wrote: assuming the cable runs are one or max two meters? Balanced cables can run hundreds of feet. You simply can't run unbalanced cabling that far. But for a meter or two, the noise rejection is much less important. If your amp accepts balanced from your Transporter, by all means use it. Save the grand from not using Audiophile cables and spend it on music or RealTraps or taking your SO out to dinner. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRC/Inguz and Microphone Calibration
muski;213627 Wrote: The calibrator's experience with about a dozen ECM8000s is that though they show pretty good response (esp for the price), but they are all over the place. I have not, but I'm not surprised about his comment, Behringer are on the low end of pro-audio stuff. It would be interesting to try some more serious measurement mic, say an Earthworks. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36716 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRC/Inguz and Microphone Calibration
muski;214368 Wrote: That would be an interesting test. Makes you wonder how close a $50 Behringer mic + $50 calibration fee gets you to a $600 Earthworks M30 calibrated mic... Another slippery slope (or $lippery $lope)... maybe one day. You bet. My guess (only a guess) is that for occasional usage, the Behringer would be fine. I'd expect that the Earthworks would work over time, like a Fluke meter. But even Fluke meters are supposed to be calibrated periodically. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36716 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
AndyC_772;214073 Wrote: Reading a CD isn't much different to reading a hard disc - both are digital, ie. yes or no, right or wrong. Why should playing a .WAV file directly off a CD-ROM via SlimServer be any different to playing a regular CD in a CD player? It depends. An audio CD player reads the music per the RedBook spec. A PC uses CD-EX to Extract the data. It is not the same. Way back in the 90s, many PC CD-rom drives could not do the extraction (which is essentially reading the digital data as you would read a hard disk sector). The normal RedBook way to read the music off a disk is very different. The error correction is different, etc. Most of this is due to the very limited capabilities of microcontrollers at the time when the RedBook spec was written. I believe, that if the spec had been written just five years later, it would have been very different, using more of a digital approach from the start. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
amey01;211286 Wrote: FF and REWIND that works as well (not better - just as well) as a circa 1982 CD player would be a start! Rewind? Please be kind, rewind? I'd love to see your mythical 1982 CD player. From the Sony site: On August 31, 1982, an announcement was made in Tokyo that four companies, Sony, CBS/Sony, Philips, and Polygram had jointly developed the world's first CD system. These companies announced that they would commence domestic sales in the autumn. I bought my first CD player in late 84 early 85. Before that, they cost a grand and there were no CDs for sale, only records. The first Tower Records opened in Washington DC at the same time, it was mind boggling to see their store, they had over a thousand CDs for sale. And it was only 5 blocks from The White House. Aside from the history, why would you want a rewind function? The only button on my SqueezeBox remote that I use is Play -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Lossless Downloads
Jitterbug;169971 Wrote: I came across musicgiants.com but its selection is pretty limited. I tried to see what selection they had, and got this: We're sorry, only Microsoft Internet Explorer is supported. so they clearly don't want my money. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31616 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Does an amp need a preamp?
joncourage;138465 Wrote: There have been some threads elsewhere indicating that a pre-amp does something that enhances the sound quality - all the usual, soundstage, etc etc. I can't see how adding signal processing improves a signal. But some folks like to use tube pre-amps as tone controls. They can add a 'tube warmth' which is usually just rolling off the top and bottom of the spectrum. And of course, tubes can add some nice intermodulation distortion. Which is why I play my Gibson ES355 thru a tube Fender amp. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27685 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
