Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
JezA;433091 Wrote: cliveb;433015 Wrote: 2. Remember that what you perceive when listening to audio equipment is strongly influenced by what you *expect* to hear. Maybe changing the PSU doesn't actually change the sound, but the listener thinks it will and therefore perceives a difference. From which it also follows that if you DON'T expect to hear a difference, then you won't - even if there is one. Glad we all agree expectation bias is a big problem. I know you didn't mean it that way, I'm being mischievous. ;) Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Laptop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 SB3 / Rio Karma / Laptop - Roberts Sound 43 / Sennheiser PX-100 / JVC UX-C30 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
tcutting;432965 Wrote: I don't see how modifying the power supply on the SB3 could possibly effect the sound using an external DAC. The only POSSIBLE improvement would be to somehow reduce the jitter. Jitter is the thing that always gets brought up, but I think it's a red herring. There have been some rigorous tests conducted that demonstrate that even quite large amounts of jitter (like 10nS uncorrelated) is inaudible on musical signals. 10nS of jitter is way higher than you'll get out of pretty much any modern audio component. So what's going on? If pretty much all digital sources have jitter levels beneath the threshold of audibility, why do they sometimes sound different, and why might changing things like their PSUs affect the sound? Two possible reasons occur to me: 1. Remember that audio playback involves analogue circuitry at some stage. Analogue circuitry can be influenced by factors such as radiated EM interference and grounding issues. If you use a cheap switched mode wall wart that sprays gobs of RFI around, it's likely to corrupt the analogue circuitry inside a nearby DAC or amp far more than a nice clean linear PSU. So even though the linear PSU doesn't improve the performance of the digital source itself in any significant way, the impact it has on ancilliary equipment might be audible. 2. Remember that what you perceive when listening to audio equipment is strongly influenced by what you *expect* to hear. Maybe changing the PSU doesn't actually change the sound, but the listener thinks it will and therefore perceives a difference. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
cliveb;433015 Wrote: 2. Remember that what you perceive when listening to audio equipment is strongly influenced by what you *expect* to hear. Maybe changing the PSU doesn't actually change the sound, but the listener thinks it will and therefore perceives a difference. From which it also follows that if you DON'T expect to hear a difference, then you won't - even if there is one. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
Anne;432289 Wrote: Agreed, its been discussed a zullion times, and actually proven by some people that a lot of mods yield no difference at all to the sound, its just money down the drain. If you want serious upgrades look to Transporter, or maybe this one : http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/pace-car-reclocker Well, yes it's been repeated over and over, but someone actually did some measuring, and, even though it's been repeatedly stated that a different raw supply can't make a difference because of the onboard regulators downstream, this post suggests, or perhaps proves, that a quality linear supply can make a difference in the noise spectrum from the analog outputs, if not in the absolute noise floor. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=348177postcount=3 Whether it's audible or not is another issue, which others also claim to have proven, but there is no denying Pat's findings. -- tubesguy tubesguy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1703 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
tubesguy;432833 Wrote: Well, yes it's been repeated over and over, but someone actually did some measuring, and, even though it's been repeatedly stated that a different raw supply can't make a difference because of the onboard regulators downstream, this post suggests, or perhaps proves, that a quality linear supply can make a difference in the noise spectrum from the analog outputs, if not in the absolute noise floor. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=348177postcount=3 Whether it's audible or not is another issue, which others also claim to have proven, but there is no denying Pat's findings. Pat's test proves that there is a difference in the noise spectrum, the AudioDiffmaker tests (and my ears for what that's worth) imply that it is not audible according to the normally accepted paradigms - non-correlated pink noise at -80dB or lower is not easily heard. The consensus is that to REALLY make an audible (as opposed to measurable) difference to the analogue outputs, one would have to disembowel the device and remove that internal switching supply. For the adventurous amongst you, try the ADF hearing test - can you hear the hidden marching/brass band in the background of the classical piece? I can't. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
The testing is interesting, though in my case I'm using the digital outputs into the DAC. Another question - one of the outfits which does mods has suggesting fitting a new clocking clocking circuit superclock4 - do you think this will have a dramatic effect? Also, what about replacing the stock voltage regulator with a higher-performance type? Thanks -- rollier rollier's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15351 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
Views from another angle: http://www.avforums.com/forums/streamers-network-music-players/922807-audiocom-squeezebox-mods.html -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
Hi I have a squeezebox duet/receiver system. I'm interested in modifying the receiver to improve audio performance on my main, fairly high-end hi-fi. I use the RCA/electrical digital connection into my Musical Fidelity A1008 DAC/amp. What mods would you recommend (available in the UK)? I'm aware that the SM PSU could be a useful upgrade but can't find a decent UK recommendation. As for mods, I found this: http://www.audiocom-uk.com/mod_inner.asp?id=59 Does anyone have experience of this and are there other mods I should consider? My budget is reasonably flexible but I want value for money! Thanks, Rob. -- rollier rollier's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15351 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
Robin Bowes;432199 Wrote: rollier wrote: Hi I have a squeezebox duet/receiver system. I'm interested in modifying the receiver to improve audio performance on my main, fairly high-end hi-fi. I use the RCA/electrical digital connection into my Musical Fidelity A1008 DAC/amp. What mods would you recommend (available in the UK)? I'm aware that the SM PSU could be a useful upgrade but can't find a decent UK recommendation. As for mods, I found this: http://www.audiocom-uk.com/mod_inner.asp?id=59 Does anyone have experience of this and are there other mods I should consider? My budget is reasonably flexible but I want value for money! Thanks, Rob. http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/transporter.html ;) R. Transporter doesn't equal value for money (expecially when I already have a good DAC). -- rollier rollier's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15351 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
rollier wrote: Robin Bowes;432199 Wrote: http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/transporter.html Transporter doesn't equal value for money (expecially when I already have a good DAC). Probably better value than messing on with PSUs, IMHO. YMMV. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
Agreed, its been discussed a zullion times, and actually proven by some people that a lot of mods yield no difference at all to the sound, its just money down the drain. If you want serious upgrades look to Transporter, or maybe this one : http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/pace-car-reclocker -- Anne Squeezebox 3 Stereovox XV2 Bryston B100-DA SST Martin Logan Aeon I Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Mods to SB3/receiver in the UK
Its not what you asked for, but. do you have any digital room correction? The SB architecture is ideally suited to running real time digital correction filters on your PC, and many users here have reported this this was their best cheapest upgrade. -- htrd Toby Dickenson Search eBay for music matching your last.fm profile; www.exitahead.co.uk htrd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3710 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64505 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
