[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Have on order a dac for mine, a Digital Storm DO2, my system is for headphones only. Check out the links. Highly rated over on the Head-Fi forums, even over the DAC-1. Can't wait to get it. http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168113 http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178814 -- King Saul HOME: 1.) Squeezebox 3 Storm Digital D02 (ordered) Grado RA-1 Grado RS-1 King Saul's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5551 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
holmsn wrote: tomsi42 Wrote: 50GPB a day! Do you get a refund if you buy it ? Well actually I suggested a 3 day rent for 100GBP +VAT less 50 if I bought ( a separate brand-new item from them) Most good Hifi shops will let you return stuff if you're not happy, i.e. buy it and return it if you don't like it. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
ModelCitizen Wrote: The difference between the Dac1 and the SB2 analogue outputs is easy to discern on my system, the Dac1 is crystal clear, needle sharp, punchy and the detail and precision is exceptional (I can see how people may think it is thin though). The SB2 DAC is slightly mushy and pedestrian (dull?) in comparison. However, I am not at all happy with the set up when I compare it to using my Naim CDX CD player. Although the difference in sound quality is not immediately identifiable with tests (although the Dac1 has a certain thinness), it becomes pretty obvious after a while that most music (and I have catholic tastes) played via the CDX is more involving than that played via the Dac1. The Dac1 seems cold and and clinical, whereas the CDX just sort of keeps your attention and draws you in and encourages me to listen longer (I am talking about intense, dark room, lie back listening). The sound it produces has an unquantifiable warmth and atractiveness (I hate the Pace, Rythym and Timing bit too but you find with Naim that the term is unavoidable). This may be something to do with the Dac1 being an oversampling dac... I don't know as, as you have found, it is difficult to try out dacs. MC When I first got my DAC1 I felt it might be losing some of the emotion also. Like you said straight out of the box it had wonderful level detail and sparkly cleanliness, but almost felt sterile. To be fair I also run digital amps and transformer volume control both of which have been accused of being almost sterile by themselves. However today I hardly even think about it. I don't know if I got used to it, it broke in, or it was one of the many changes I've made since then, but its pretty much all back now. There are many songs that make me want to dance and I still feel the extreme joy in Beethoven's 9th. Originally the room wasn't treated much and its heavily treated now. I've also moved all of my source gear to individual balanced transformers and built a linear supply for the SB (Sonicaps helped a lot). One of the things that helped most in the PRaT department was the addition of a Running Springs Audio power conditioner. It definately helped out with the toe tapping factor a lot. In other words it may not have been the DAC1 that was sterile, but rather my system and the better DAC was able to expose it so now that I've fixed the other parts of my system its not sterile anymore. In the end its like any other piece of gear and you have to try it yourself in your system to see how it meshes with everything else and your tastes. While I might like to hear the Lavry Black, the Benchmark would still be on my very short list if I were shopping today. -- samplesj Jeremy '2 Channel system' (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/member_systems.php?sysid=619) / 'HT system' (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/member_systems.php?sysid=620) / 'Den' (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/member_systems.php?sysid=636) samplesj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
I'm taking the optical out of an SB2, into a DAC1, then balanced cables in a Pathos Logos (all balanced tube preamp, SS power section) into Magnepan 1.6QRs. It sounds excellent to me. I've never tried blind A/Bing it with the SB2 analog outs, but I bet I could tell the difference. I also like being able to put a 24/96 signal into the DAC1 (e.g. from a DVD player, not the SB2). That's a real treat. -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
holmsn Wrote: Wow !, what a year !, after initially purchasing a SB to evaluate it for possible in vehicle use ( with MP3's etc) I tried a FLAC rip quite casually on my old home system , including an Audiolab 8000A amp which you folks in the US might have heard of :) and was immediately impressed despite not listening intently or anything as I wasn't expecting a great deal. Now after getting hold of some Spendor S5E's and listening , still with the SB3 Analog o/p's to the system, can it get any better if I get a Benchmark DAC1? Yes it can, if the rest of your system is up to that standard. Andrew -- Andrew B. = SB3- Benchmark DAC1 - ATC CA2 pre - ATC SCM50ASL active speakers... nice! Andrew B.'s Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
holmsn Wrote: Yes, all very interesting and thought provoking. I have found a UK company who would rent a DAC1 for 50GBP/day so maybe I will try this, also the old Marantz CD65-DX has a coax digital output so it would be fun to try this in circuit as well. 50GPB a day! Do you get a refund if you buy it ? -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
tomsi42 Wrote: 50GPB a day! Do you get a refund if you buy it ? Well actually I suggested a 3 day rent for 100GBP +VAT less 50 if I bought ( a separate brand-new item from them) -- holmsn holmsn's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3809 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Then you doubtless understand that most Naim gear is designed to give of its best in a synergistic all-Naim system... Personally I find the (all) Naim sound rather tiring and I've never liked Naim gear in mix match system...but that is purely my personal subjective impression which I wouldn't expect anyone to agree with. In my circle of friends (admittedly not a statistically significant sample!) there are strong pro/anti Naim camps. I do agree that the SB 2/3 DAC is a bit vague at the top and bottom end - it certainly doesn't sound like any Naim I'm familiar with - you could never accuse them of being vague. I also agree that the SB DAC is less engaging than the DAC1 - but whilst the DAC1 is good there are alternatives. I personally prefer the presentation of the MF DAC's, but my system is not straightforward. Most (all?) NOS DACS are going to be more imprecise and vague (and warmer) than the stuff you've been listening to...if you want detailed and warm/sweet/engaging at least give the MF's a try... OK - and here's the REALLY controversial bit: for me the difference between being happy listening for an hour or so vs. deep relaxed listening all night was room correction - regardless of source. Once the room correction is engaged, the difference is night and day - way WAY more significant than the difference between DACS for instance. My wife - who is a complete sceptic on technical matters - has very touchy hearing and without room correction she'll get up and leave the room to do some ironing or something. She won't say anything but I've seen her doing it. With RC on she'll happily sit through all sorts of rubbish I put on and read her magazines/books etc. Occasionally she'll start tapping her foot or singing along... YM (and W!) MV Phil -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Phil Leigh Wrote: OK - and here's the REALLY controversial bit: for me the difference between being happy listening for an hour or so vs. deep relaxed listening all night was room correction - regardless of source. Once the room correction is engaged, the difference is night and day - way WAY more significant than the difference between DACS for instance. Phil, when you talk about room correction, are you referring to acoustic treatment (bass traps and the like), or digital EQ (eg. TacT, etc)? -- cliveb cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
cliveb Wrote: Phil, when you talk about room correction, are you referring to acoustic treatment (bass traps and the like), or digital EQ (eg. TacT, etc)? TACT (in my case) with Good Vibrations software. My room doesn't lend itself to physical treatments with any degree of WAF. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
The amp is not the most important component in the system. Garbage in - louder garbage out... Also, it's the speakers and the room they are in that ultimately influence what you hear (or not), no matter how good the upstream components. In any system, all components make a contribution. I would argue that the amp is the easiest to get right from a design point of view (especially with line level sources). I do agree that a great amp with mediocre speakers will generally sound better than an underpowered amp with demanding speakers...but that's a classic case of not creating a synergistic system. Likewise, the worlds greateast CDP (whatever that is) + a basic amp and speakers is not going to be as good as the second-best CDP + great amp and speakers. By the way, it's worth remembering that any component with electrolytic capacitors in it will probably have drifted out of its design spec after 10-15 years of use... In my experience this impacts pre power amps the most and the cost of a quality recap may be better employed replacing the complete unit with a better modern unit. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Each component does a different job in the system and needs to be judged in appropriate terms. An amplifier is required simply to increase voltage and supply current to drive the loudspeakers: whether the amplifier will be good or bad in the system depends a great deal on how difficult the speakers are to drive. Speakers are generally the most imperfect element in the chain, and therefore make the most dramatic differences to the sound. Source-first proponents argue however, that if the musical cues don't make it to the speaker, it's ultimately unsatisfying, no matter how good those speakers are. In any event, the speakers need to be matched to the room to perform at their best. Whilst measurement clearly have their place, IME things can appear to measure very similarly but sound quite different. The fact that you hear a difference between your CDP and the SB3 is eveidence that CDPs do have a 'sound'. It may not be as 'obvious' as the difference between different loudspeakers, but IME, over a longer time you will find it just as significant to your musical enjoyment. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Tagore Wrote: Have recently been trialling the Benchmark DAC with the SB3 and was disappointed by the lack of apparent stepup in performance. This is not just to my ears but also many friends that I have asked to listen for improvements. If there is an improvement I and they fail to hear it. Am running the Linkwitz Orions which are pretty revealing speakers which makes it even more of a disappointment. SB3 alone I am more than happy with. I'm running a DAC1 also. A few things that really made a difference in getting my DAC1 up there: 1. Moving to balanced cables - one of the pluses of the DAC1 (presuming you have a balanced power amp). Not sure if you are running balanced in your setup. 2. Getting good balanced interconnects. A friend of mine made a great set of cables up for me. I'm not in the least an interconnect zealot, but I must admit, it helped a lot. 3. Ditching the SB digital volume control and using the DAC1 control. Another admission - I think I'm just biased on this... and that the remote volume control is sorely missed. 4. I got a tube based amp - I found that it rounds out the DAC1 nicely (which is quite clinical to my subjective ear + my speakers are quite clinical to boot...) 5. Decent subwoofer (sore point - I don't actually one at the moment, but I've lent out the DAC1 to other people). Not sure why this is - I think the DAC1 response has a very clinical response and a good subwoofer can really push the sound. Altogether these are probably minor, but for my setup which is: EAC+Flac - SB2 - DAC -(Balanced)- Power Amp - Speakers ... I think it's one of the most straight-forward, purest setups you can get. For me that is the real strength of the DAC1 - it really pushes towards having a transparent system. No preamp, etc, etc. Basically signal straight out to the speakers. That said, that kind of transparency grates on some (many?) - For me, the addition of the tube stage injects a bit of needed personality. Subwoofer helps even more. Anyway - Going from that setup to SB2 -RCA- Amp is a quite noticable difference. DAC1 isn't a quantum leap better, but I think it's good value in the right system. -- jhwilliams jhwilliams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1876 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
(no offence to anyone whom owns or plans to own a Benchmark) I demo'd a benchmark in my system for a week or so about a year back, during the initial craze they drove up. I was not to fond at all of the sound it produced, found it thin and lacking in many areas. It had decent PRaT (there is a term i hate!) but was just not very involving if i recall. Im not fully remembering exactly what i heard now as it was a while ago, i do remember it was one of the least favored dacs i have had in my system ever. more than likly a system synergy thing.. but it does tell you that you should look around before spending money. I prefered dacs costing less than half as much, and also ones that were rather dated in terms of technology far more (in my system) I ended up witha way more pricy dac than the benchmark, but i could have lived with many of the low cost options as well. -- RooX RooX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5130 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
I have an SB3 and a DAC1 going into Naim 52/250/briks. I find I can't hear any difference between the SB3 analog and the DAC1. I can toggle between the two as separate inputs on my amp and if it wasn't for the occasional slight pop you couldn't hear that you switched over. Admittedly I don't use balanced output on the DAC1. The DAC1 does a wonderful job on the dvb-t receiver. Although sometimes the sound effects on doccos can be too pronounced and I don't really need to hear the news reader inhale so vigorously. If you are looking for a DAC just for the SB3 I'd look elsewhere as imho the improvement is too small for the price. -- gusi gusi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3801 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
I'm feeding my SB2 to a Benchmark DAC-1, then DIRECT to my Amp. Stepping up to the Benchmark brought SUBTLE improvement, evident only on some recordings. Actually, bypassing my Pre, and feeding the Benchmark DIRECT to my Amp brought MUCH greater improvement. Whether the Benchmark offers $975 worth of sonic bliss is an individual decision. For me it was worth it. I now have a Musical Fidelity X-10 on order, and will see if it offers that last bit of sweetness that I crave in my system. If so, for a TOTAL outlay of $1600 ($200 for wired SB2, $25 for Elpac linear PSU, plus Benchmark and X-10), I will have achieved sonic nirvana for MY ears. YMMV. -- sleepysurf squeezebox2 (with elpac linear psu) to benchmark dac1, direct to sunfire cinema grand 200 ~five (vertically bi-amped) driving ml aerius i's, blue jeans cables. 'click to see my system' (http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=732) sleepysurf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Didn't mean to be inflammatory , only quoting what to me was a surprising statement, that the amp was the key component to the sound rather than the source or the speakers. In my case changing the source to the SB3 ( from an old Marantz CDP) was immediately reveletory , following that with the new Spendor S5E's a further clarity to the sound became apparent. I haven't bothered with any power supply mods to the unit and just wondered if the Benchmark would be a further incremental step forward or not Neil -- holmsn holmsn's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3809 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Benchmark DAC1, the next step ?
Have recently been trialling the Benchmark DAC with the SB3 and was disappointed by the lack of apparent stepup in performance. This is not just to my ears but also many friends that I have asked to listen for improvements. If there is an improvement I and they fail to hear it. Am running the Linkwitz Orions which are pretty revealing speakers which makes it even more of a disappointment. SB3 alone I am more than happy with. -- Tagore Tagore's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5455 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23871 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
