Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
earwaxer9;631313 Wrote: Brings me back to the days when audio kit used to be compared in the A-B type fashion. Sales people had the time and the inclination to go through the stuff they had and try to find a match that fit your pleasure. Looking back, I'm not sure I would trust the A-B comparison now even if it was still available. I need more time. I can tell differences with quick comparisons but it would be hard to choose between good high end kit using that method. With lower end stuff it works pretty well because you are choosing based on what flaws you are willing to tolerate the most. You are quite right to be a little suspicious about A-B switching. In my experience it makes some types of difference between the speakers very easy to spot, for example changes in frequency response become very obvious - as do dispersion changes (given the right track and room). However, it encourages the listener to evaluate the speakers in small chunks of 5 to 10 seconds and this can be misleading. If I listen to a new loudspeaker on a familiar track of 3 or so minutes then I will slowly form an opinion over the whole track. For example, at the first chorus I might think the vocal sounded a bit shrill when it got loud - when the second chorus is reached I can listen out for this again and try and confirm that suspicion. Perhaps I will decide this time that it was not a problem. Perhaps after the track is ended I will pick another track which I have more confidence that the vocal is cleanly recorded to double check. If I had done the same test with an A-B switcher I may have switched to loudspeaker B and repeated the part of the track - it is conceivable that loudspeaker B is a bit sucked out in the mid and gives a much less forward presentation, in this case I may come to a completely different conclusion about loudspeaker A. There is certainly a place for the A-B switcher but it is only to be used with caution! Jack. -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Thanks for all the replies on this subject. I think that we will put together something with switching at the pre-amp stage rather than inside the squeezebox. I think that as a first try we will simply follow Phil's suggestion of two identical pre-amp and switch the input simultaneously with the remote, this seems to fit the bill nicely. We may be able to link the IR receivers of the two pre-amps to avoid the remote signal only detected at one pre problem. Jack. -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Brings me back to the days when audio kit used to be compared in the A-B type fashion. Sales people had the time and the inclination to go through the stuff they had and try to find a match that fit your pleasure. Looking back, I'm not sure I would trust the A-B comparison now even if it was still available. I need more time. I can tell differences with quick comparisons but it would be hard to choose between good high end kit using that method. With lower end stuff it works pretty well because you are choosing based on what flaws you are willing to tolerate the most. -- earwaxer9 System: modified Winsome Labs Mouse, modified Maggie MMG's, Transporter, HSU sub 12, MSB DAC to 500 watt sub slave amp, JPS labs power cords, Silver audio interconnect, Audioquest Granite speaker cable. earwaxer9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39527 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
snottmonster;630174 Wrote: Just a thought - but wouldn't it be a lot less effort to just have 2 SB Touch? You could sync them if you are wanting to switch between speaker setups while your tracks are playing Exactly, seems like an odd B-solution for a professional setup. -- brodeur brodeur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
brodeur;630785 Wrote: Exactly, seems like an odd B-solution for a professional setup. I don't think you understand the requirement. 2 Touches need to drive 2 amps and 2 pairs of speakers. Then you need a means of (easily) toggling between 1 Touch playing and the other muted and then that player being muted and the other one playing... You can't do that easily with JUST 2 Touches because they will respond to the same IR commands, even if not synced! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630789 Wrote: You can't do that easily with JUST 2 Touches because they will respond to the same IR commands, even if not synced! But i can easily be done from other devioes such as iPeng in iPad or iPhone , from web browser, etc. However, sounds like an output switch of some kind would be much easier, like a pre-amp with A and B speakers selectable from remote. Cheers Johan -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Then you'll have a problem matching the volume. Two synched Touches, and some kind of SqueezeOS hack, or SBS hook, to mute them selectively, could well be the cleanest solution in some ways. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Soulkeeper;630816 Wrote: Then you'll have a problem matching the volume. Two synched Touches, and some kind of SqueezeOS hack, or SBS hook, to mute them selectively, could well be the cleanest solution in some ways. Why would there be a matching problem with one amp or one pre-amp? And why would that be less of a problem in a setup with 2 SBT with one amp each? -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630795 Wrote: But i can easily be done from other devioes such as iPeng in iPad or iPhone , from web browser, etc. However, sounds like an output switch of some kind would be much easier, like a pre-amp with A and B speakers selectable from remote. Cheers Johan It can't be easily done without bespoke coding. Also, the approach would then be 100% dependent on the Touch as a source. My solution is source hardware independent ;-). They don't want to use an A/B switch on the speakers to avoid sound quality issues - also you would need IR remote switching - that would probably be a custom build. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630829 Wrote: It can't be easily done without bespoke coding - there is NO way to toggle with a single control. You could do it with a macro on a remote... but you need the 2 Touches to respond to 2 different IR command sets. Also, the approach would then be 100% dependent on the Touch as a source. My solution is 100% source hardware independent ;-). They don't want to use an A/B switch on the speakers to avoid sound quality issues - also you would need IR remote switching - that would probably be a custom build. Acutally i can be done very easy with simple html making 2 http call to SBS, at least when using web browser. OP never said he anything about using A/B switch in an amp, he said they did not want to use an external A/B switch. If one still want to use 2 SBTs, the simplest solution would be using a 2 SBTs connected to a DAC (could also be a AV pre/pro or AV Reciever) with remote controlled input selection and 2 coax (or 2 TOSLINK) inputs. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630825 Wrote: Why would there be a matching problem with one amp or one pre-amp? Because different speakers have different sensitivity, and matching the volume after the power amp stage isn't desireable (doing anything to the signal after the power amp stage generally isn't desireable). So it follows that each set of speakers should have at least separate power amps. Matching the volume before a single source gets split isn't desireable either, because then you'd have to re-trim the volume (automatically or manually) every time you switch between speaker sets. johann;630825 Wrote: And why would that be less of a problem in a setup with 2 SBT with one amp each? Because then you could match the volume simply by adjusting the volume knob on each of the two pre-amps (or passive attenuators), if you so desired. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Soulkeeper;630832 Wrote: Because different speakers have different sensitivity, and matching the volume after the power amp stage isn't desireable (doing anything to the signal after the power amp stage generally isn't desireable). So it follows that each set of speakers should have at least separate power amps. Matching the volume before a single source gets split isn't desireable either, because then you'd have to re-trim the volume (automatically or manually) every time you switch between speaker sets. Because then you could match the volume simply by adjusting the volume knob on each of the two pre-amps (or passive attenuators), if you so desired. Fair enough. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630831 Wrote: Acutally i can be done very easy with simple html making 2 http call to SBS, at least when using web browser. OP never said he anything about using A/B switch in an amp, he said they did not want to use an external A/B switch. If one still want to use 2 SBTs, the simplest solution would be using a 2 SBTs connected to a DAC (could also be a AV pre/pro or AV Reciever) with remote controlled input selection and 2 coax (or 2 TOSLINK) inputs. EDIT: Obviously the DAC would need to be connected to 2 set of amps. My solution is way simpler than that :-) - it would take a few minutes to program the pre-amps... and as I said, it would work for ANY source, can be trimmed for volume easily (any pre-amp with programmable inputs also has programmable levels per input) is ultimate quality (no extra equipment in the line) and requires 100% off the shelf components. Remember, these guys can afford two parallel setups - this isn't something you or I would ever do :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630225 Wrote: Touch to DAC with 2 parallel outputs to - 2 identical pre or integrated amps that have configurable IR remote input selection (ie most mid-to-high end non hair shirt gear). These are then programmed so that selecting (say) Input 1 on one amp also simultaneously selects Input 2 on the other and vice versa. Why not just have us input 1 on amp 1 and input 2 on amp 2? Then if you chose input 1, amp 1 will play and vice versa. No need for remote programming at all then. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630835 Wrote: My solution is way simpler than that :-) - it would take a few minutes to program the pre-amps... and as I said, it would work for ANY source, can be trimmed for volume easily (any pre-amp with programmable inputs also has programmable levels per input) is ultimate quality (no extra equipment in the line) and requires 100% off the shelf components. Remember, these guys can afford two parallel setups - this isn't something you or I would ever do :-) Actually mine is simpler since it does not need any pre-amps at all. ;) Besides, there is no need for programmble inputs and/or remotes in your setup. ;) -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630836 Wrote: Why not just have us input 1 on amp 1 and input 2 on amp 2? Then if you chose input 1, amp 1 will play and vice versa. No need for remote programming at all then. True - yes, you are correct that would work. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
hi, just to clarify you can split the signal and run into a DAC with two coax inputs OR even more simply run coax and optical into the same DAC. Assuming you want to aid switching by staying exactly in the same position, then a remote control switching is useful. Buy a DAC with remote for as little as $300 £200 Search ebay for Matrix mini-i 24bit/192kHz Balanced DAC+Remote Control That way you don't have to buy identical preamps or amps (as its possible even 2x identical amps could be slightly different) -- ajmitchell http://www.last.fm/user/ajmitchell ajmitchell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=800 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
JohnSwenson;630318 Wrote: This theoretically COULD be done with USB DACs, but it could be a little iffy. Running a USB DAC is FAR more touchy on the Touch, you can get ticks and pops etc quite easily, using TWO of them is going to make this WAY more likely to happen. The best bet would be very simple 16 bit only DACs, just 44.1, adaptive (NO asynchronous 24 bit DACs need apply for this). DACs that use the 2706 type USB chip would probably work. You would set the ALSA config using the existing method for having the data stream sent to two different DACs, then use amixer to change the volume between then. It might work. You would have to write an applet that got events from the IR system and then ran amixer with the right options to change the volumes. Another major issue is going to be setting the names between the two DACs. With two DACs you are going to have bizzare things happening as to names and card numbers. Someone recently posted a UDEV scheme for properly naming USB DACs, you would need to extend this for two DACs so you could guarantee that ALSA was talking to the right things all the time. So yes it might be possible, but its not going to be trivial. NOTE: I am NOT volunteering to do this! John S. Hi John, Thanks for the reply, what you describe is the kind of thing that I was thinking of... perhaps it is overkill for what I need and I think that something along the lines of Phil's suggestion is the way to go in this instance. I have just got hold of a USB DAC so I'll have a bit of fun playing around with that and the Touch, thanks for the info on your thread - very handy. Jack. -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Or, if you feel like doing some hardware DIY, make an opto-mechanical TOSLINK switch from some optical cables, an RC car servo, some RC car circuitry for remote control, a light-proof box, and optionally a mirror. (Caveat lector, I've never tried this myself.) -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Hi all, I have a slightly strange requirement which I think might be fulfilled using the SB touch plus a little bit of fiddling with the software. A bit of background: I work for a loudspeaker company (KEF Audio) and we have been using the slimserver/squeezebox system in our listening rooms for a few years, we use the SPDIF out to feed an external DAC. As you might imagine, occasionally we want to compare pairs of loudspeakers and we have a switch-box which allows two sets of loudspeaker cables to be connected to an amplifier, there is a remote with a couple of buttons on it and the signal from the amplifier can be directed to either loudspeakers A or loudspeakers B with the press of a button. We are also able to trim the level of the loudspeakers in the switch-box system to compensate for sensitivity differences, this is done at line level between the pre and power amp. The switch-box uses relays to make and break the connections to each loudspeaker. The main problem with this situation is that firstly it is unreliable and secondly it sounds terrible compared to using a direct set of cables from amp to loudspeaker. We believe that this is just a problem of the relays which are not designed to be switched as frequently as in our application and they very quickly deteriorate - the system is reasonably good when the relays are fresh. I'd like to replace this ageing system with something better and I was wondering if it would be possible to use the SB Touch to do this by connecting two USB DACs to the Touch (via usb hub) and then to write a little plug-in to allow the output to be directed to one or the other DAC preferably triggered by a button press on the remote. We would then need to have two identical amplifiers to complete the system. Level matching could either be done in the switching plug-in or alternatively simply in the preamp of each of the pair of amplifiers. I have quite a bit of programming experience and linux experience too but I could do with some help getting started on this project. I understand that the Touch uses ALSA internally, has anyone tried to connect two USB DACs to the touch simultaneously? I know that soundcheck's touch toolbox allows some of the outputs of the Touch to be disabled - does this change the ALSA settings to disable the different outputs? Perhaps it is possible to simply use the ALSA mixer to do the switching/level adjustment. Any help is greatly appreciated. Best regards, Jack Oclee-Brown. P.S. I anticipate that there may be some responses regarding the correctness of A/B testing in this way so I'd just like to say that this is not the only way that we evaluate loudspeakers but also that we do find it a useful test for particular situations. -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Just a thought - but wouldn't it be a lot less effort to just have 2 SB Touch? You could sync them if you are wanting to switch between speaker setups while your tracks are playing -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Hi Scottmonster, Thanks for the suggestion, I guess that if they are both playing we could then toggle the mute on each to switch between them does the mute sync between players? I was hoping for something a little bit cleaner though, easy for any of the engineers to use and remaining permanently setup. Cheers, Jack. snottmonster;630174 Wrote: Just a thought - but wouldn't it be a lot less effort to just have 2 SB Touch? You could sync them if you are wanting to switch between speaker setups while your tracks are playing -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Actually no, the mute does not sync Note also that the Touch doesn't have a USB out for a DAC. You would have to continue to use SPDIF which presents another challenge to your idea of using 2 DACs simultaneously with the one Touch -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Hi I think you are making this too complicated. You want to compared two sets of speakers: set A and set B. First any SB outputs two sets of digital (optical and coax) at the same time (see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65692highlight=outputs) so you can run identical A+B side by side. However to switch from A to B and B to A (many times) you need either an amplifier with a A B speaker set button (quite common) or a switch on the digital out (at the DAC or to the DAC). Many DACs (even cheap $100 ones) have digital input switching for optical and spdif (coax). Ignor USB, as already mentioned there is no usb output). So you can switch between the near identical optical and coax outputs. Lets say you are obsessional and want to compare coax (spdif) with coax (spdif) without bringing optical into the equation you can use a coaxial cable splitter ( a high quality one is sold by QED (I think as subwoofer Y cable) which works perfectly splitting one digital output into two (with no quality loss). does that help? -- ajmitchell http://www.last.fm/user/ajmitchell ajmitchell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=800 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
The best way I have found of doing this is as follows: Touch to DAC with 2 parallel outputs to - 2 identical pre or integrated amps that have configurable IR remote input selection (ie most mid-to-high end non hair shirt gear). These are then programmed so that selecting (say) Input 1 on one amp also simultaneously selects Input 2 on the other and vice versa. A single remote push will now toggle between the same source via the 2 amps+speakers. All very high quality. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
ajmitchell;630213 Wrote: Hi I think you are making this too complicated. You want to compared two sets of speakers: set A and set B. First any SB outputs two sets of digital (optical and coax) at the same time (see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65692highlight=outputs) so you can run identical A+B side by side. However to switch from A to B and B to A (many times) you need either an amplifier with a A B speaker set button (quite common) or a switch on the digital out (at the DAC or to the DAC). Many DACs (even cheap $100 ones) have digital input switching for optical and spdif (coax). Ignor USB, as already mentioned there is no usb output). So you can switch between the near identical optical and coax outputs. Lets say you are obsessional and want to compare coax (spdif) with coax (spdif) without bringing optical into the equation you can use a coaxial cable splitter ( a high quality one is sold by QED (I think as subwoofer Y cable) which works perfectly splitting one digital output into two (with no quality loss). does that help? Thanks for your reply, splitting the spdif out to two different DACs was something that I had already been thinking about but the switching functionality becomes a little tricky. Especially as ideally this is to be done from the listening position so that the listener does not need to move their position when comparing two loudspeakers (similar issue with A/B switch on amps). I was under the impression that a USB DAC could be used with the Touch (perhaps after installing soundcheck's toolboz) -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630225 Wrote: The best way I have found of doing this is as follows: Touch to DAC with 2 parallel outputs to - 2 identical pre or integrated amps that have configurable IR remote input selection (ie most mid-to-high end non hair shirt gear). These are then programmed so that selecting (say) Input 1 on one amp also simultaneously selects Input 2 on the other and vice versa. A single remote push will now toggle between the same source via the 2 amps+speakers. All very high quality. Thanks Phil, makes sense and is nice and simple... sounds like a winner to me. Do you ever run into problems that one pre-amp/integrated misses the IR signal? -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
jackocleebrown;630227 Wrote: Thanks Phil, makes sense and is nice and simple... sounds like a winner to me. Do you ever run into problems that one pre-amp/integrated misses the IR signal? Issue minimised if using 2 identical preamps, stacked closely. However the risk does exist - in which case a second press of the same remote button will 99/100 fix it. It's also useful if the amps can be programmed to select a specific (default) input on power-up... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
jackocleebrown;630226 Wrote: Thanks for your reply, splitting the spdif out to two different DACs was something that I had already been thinking about but the switching functionality becomes a little tricky. Especially as ideally this is to be done from the listening position so that the listener does not need to move their position when comparing two loudspeakers (similar issue with A/B switch on amps). I was under the impression that a USB DAC could be used with the Touch (perhaps after installing soundcheck's toolboz) You will find a thread devoted to this under the Touch forum. It is courtesy of John Swenson but will not work for all USB dacs. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
This theoretically COULD be done with USB DACs, but it could be a little iffy. Running a USB DAC is FAR more touchy on the Touch, you can get ticks and pops etc quite easily, using TWO of them is going to make this WAY more likely to happen. The best bet would be very simple 16 bit only DACs, just 44.1, adaptive (NO asynchronous 24 bit DACs need apply for this). DACs that use the 2706 type USB chip would probably work. You would set the ALSA config using the existing method for having the data stream sent to two different DACs, then use amixer to change the volume between then. It might work. You would have to write an applet that got events from the IR system and then ran amixer with the right options to change the volumes. Another major issue is going to be setting the names between the two DACs. With two DACs you are going to have bizzare things happening as to names and card numbers. Someone recently posted a UDEV scheme for properly naming USB DACs, you would need to extend this for two DACs so you could guarantee that ALSA was talking to the right things all the time. So yes it might be possible, but its not going to be trivial. NOTE: I am NOT volunteering to do this! John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
