Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
Phil Leigh;544662 Wrote: Ah. I think we are at cross-purposes here. The test method I am using is: 1) generate the test file in RMAA (you only need to do this once) 2) play back on SB device using SBS and... 3) record analogue output from SB device into soundcard (RMAA is not involved in this step) 4) use RMAA to open and analyse recorded file The calibration file is not required for any of this. It is used for speaker testing. Ah !! I was wondering about doing it that way but didn't think it should matter if RightMark analyzes Live or analyzes a recorded wav (that I just recorded Live) should be the same. RightMark basically records it and then analyzes what it recorded. I'll try it that way. However doing everything I've done does work Live. Except playing WAV. It's also the only path that reports calibration levels are distorted. If your not doing calibration file. How do you know you have the levels set right? You eye balling clip lights during the Test? -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
See the new thread I created with test results for Transporter and Meridian. The Wav to Wav worked. I just ignored the calibration thing (which works fine in most cases). I adjusted gains each time until the recording was full scale. Lot's of trial and error. I think if I did the same with Live it would have work too. But my levels were wrong with the broken live calibration stuff. Should be nothing wrong recording live vs to a wav file. It's the same thing. RMAA just records to a file behind the scenes first and then analyzes. This would work on squeezebox too. It's just pain in the butt to get levels right with no calibration signal. It's also odd when driving Meridian live spdif it was squeaky clean. And I could never get that close playing a test wav through transporter to Meridian. Should be the same. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
The generated Calibration file is junk it's way over clipped. http://softronix.com/pictures/levelperfect/GeneratedCalSignal.jpg Here it is if I record it Digitally which looks correct http://softronix.com/pictures/levelperfect/RecordedSPDIFCalSignal.jpg I think it may look at the capabilities of your sound card to generate it and it's screwing up. Could you email yours? Both CAL and Test mswlogo AT hotmail -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
Gotta read all the details. Of course Volume is at Max. TASCAM analog input is perfectly fine if I drive it through SPDIF it works. The FLAC file is perfectly fine is I record it on SPDIF out of Transporter I don't think you know what a TASCAM is. It's an external card and has analog trims and clipping lights. I can set the levels exactly right. I'm also using the Pro version of RightMark with ASIO. http://www.tascam.com/products/us-144mkII.html Every end works fine (SPDIF, WAV, Analog) except just one combo just won't. Playing the WAV file vs driving SPDIF should be exactly the same. Only difference is who derives clock. When SPDIF driven TASCAM derives clock (who so happens to have the ADC to Record) for WAV TRansporter derives clock. Summary Transporter SPDIF to Analog Works Merdian SPDIF to Analog Works Transporter SPDIF to SPDIF Works Meridian SPDIF to SPDIF Works Transporter FLAC to SPDIF Works Transporter FLAC to Analog Fails Transporter FLAC to SPDIF to Meridian to Analog Fails -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
mswlogo;544621 Wrote: Gotta read all the details. Of course Volume is at Max. TASCAM analog input is perfectly fine if I drive it through SPDIF it works. The FLAC file is perfectly fine is I record it on SPDIF out of Transporter I don't think you know what a TASCAM is. It's an external card and has analog trims and clipping lights. I can set the levels exactly right. I'm also using the Pro version of RightMark with ASIO. http://www.tascam.com/products/us-144mkII.html Every end works fine (SPDIF, WAV, Analog) except just one combo just won't. Playing the WAV file vs driving SPDIF should be exactly the same. Only difference is who derives clock. When SPDIF driven TASCAM derives clock (who so happens to have the ADC to Record) for WAV TRansporter derives clock. Summary Transporter SPDIF to Analog Works Merdian SPDIF to Analog Works Transporter SPDIF to SPDIF Works Meridian SPDIF to SPDIF Works Transporter FLAC to SPDIF Works Transporter FLAC to Analog Fails Transporter FLAC to SPDIF to Meridian to Analog Fails I know exactly what the TASCAM is thank you. I've owned and used more studio/recording gear in the last 25 years than you can possibly imagine :-) Did you even read my post properly? S/PDIF cannot overload by its very nature. 0dB is 0dB. Analogue can - and will. Are getting a green/yellow light on the 144 when playing back the WAV/FLAC file? I you are, then the input levels on the 144 should be set properly and there should not be any distortion. If you are still getting distortion you need to trim down the 144 even further. By the way, if you use a 24/96 file generated by RMAA it suffers from the usual there is no standard for hi-rez wav problem. To get it to play properly on the TP you need to convert it to FLAC. There is no problem with 16/44.1 wavs generated by RMAA. The PRO version of RMAA will make no difference here. Neither will using ASIO drivers. Also this has nothing to do with clocks! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
mswlogo;544659 Wrote: Thanks !! But you use the calibration file to set the levels !! It's also the file that is reporting the signal is distorted before running the test. Ah. I think we are at cross-purposes here. The test method I am using is: 1) generate the test file in RMAA (you only need to do this once) 2) play back on SB device using SBS and... 3) record analogue output from SB device into soundcard 4) use RMAA to analyse recorded file The calibration file is not required for any of this. It is use for speaker testing. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
Phil Leigh;544644 Wrote: I've sent you the 16/44.1 test file generated by RMAA... The calibration file (calibration.wav) is not used in the tests we are discussing here... You use the calibration file to set the levels !! -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
By the way there is 4 ways to run. 1:Live Play - Live Analyze 2:Live Play - Record to Wav - Post Analyze 3:Pre generate Wav - Play Wav - Live Analyze 4:Pre generate Wav - Play Wav - Record to Wav - Post Analyze Your suggesting #4 which I will try. I've done 1,2,3 on spdif to spdif. I've done 1,2,3 spdif to analog. Except #3 fails to analog. Still strange. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
mswlogo;544628 Wrote: The generated Calibration file is junk it's way over clipped. http://softronix.com/pictures/levelperfect/GeneratedCalSignal.jpg Here it is if I record it Digitally which looks correct http://softronix.com/pictures/levelperfect/RecordedSPDIFCalSignal.jpg I think it may look at the capabilities of your sound card to generate it and it's screwing up. Could you email yours? Both CAL and Test mswlogo AT hotmail I've sent you the 16/44.1 test file generated by RMAA... The calibration file (calibration.wav) is not used in the tests we are discussing here... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
Finally: a multi-page thread of which I understand none of the posts. If ignorance is bliss, I have achieved nirvana... Carry on, don't mind me. :) -- Peter314 Peter314's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14028 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
You have TP volume at 100, right? The test signal via analogue output of the TP will overload the Tascam analogue input. If you reduce the TP level slightly it will work. Most soundcards don't have a true analogue level trim right at the input, so messing with the mixer levels won't help, the overload has already happened. I use a passive pre-amp (actually, it's just a high quality ALPS Blue pot)between test device and card-in to trim a couple of dB from the input signal. That's why my Touch results show very slightly down at Vol=100... As you can see from the frequency response measurement, the pot does nothing it shouldn't! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
You have TP volume at 100, right? The test signal via analogue output of the TP will overload the Tascam analogue input. If you reduce the TP level slightly it will work. Most soundcards don't have a true analogue level trim right at the input, so messing with the mixer levels won't help, the overload has already happened. I use a passive pre-amp (actually, it's just a high quality ALPS Blue pot)between test device and card-in to trim a couple of dB from the input signal. That's why my Touch results show very slightly down at Vol=100... As you can see from the frequency response mesurement, the pot does nothing it shouldn't! There's nothing wrong with the RMAA generated test files. S/PDIF of course doesn't have this issue. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
You have TP volume at 100, right? The test signal via analogue output of the TP will overload the Tascam analogue input. If you reduce the TP level slightly it will work. Most soundcards don't have a true analogue level trim right at the input, so messing with the mixer levels won't help, the overload has already happened. I use a passive pre-amp (actually, it's just a high quality ALPS Blue pot)between test device and card-in to trim a couple of dB from the input signal. That's why my Touch results show very slightly down at Vol=100... As you can see from the frequency response mesurement, the pot does nothing it shouldn't! There's nothing wrong with the RMAA generated test files. S/PDIF of course doesn't have this issue. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
Equipment TASCAM US144 MKII, MKI, and EMU 0404 (all similar devices) using ASIO Meridian G68 Transporter What works. If I Test My Meridian driving SPDIF from TASCAM and Recording Analog out with TASCAM it looks pretty clean. One small bump at 60hz. Normal Volume. More importantly Calibration Test passes. If I Test Transporter driving SPDIF from TASCAM and Recording Analog out with TASCAM is looks pretty clean. Max Volume. One small bump at 60Hz. Unbalanced. I did not do Volume test again with better cables and carefully routing unbalanced away from any power cords. Because I want to understand why a WAV won't work first. More importantly Calibration Test passes. What does not work: Then I do the exact same test on Transporter but instead of Driving with SPDIF. I play a .WAV file with test signal. Calibration Test says signal is distorted. I verified I can Play a WAV file on PC out on SPDIF and Analyze it from another PC recording it SPDIF. Got perfect results as expected. So I know the WAV procedure works. My balanced inputs on TASCAM don't seem to be correct level sensitivity to try balanced outputs on Transporter. I think it has something to do with clocks. When I drive the TASCAM (or EMU) the Clock from SPDIF output of TASCAM is used for the ADC of Analog coming back. I even tried using the internal clock of the TASCAM to drive clock on Transporter. I know this was clocking it. Because no data was actually going over it and if I pulled it everything stopped. Also if I changed RightMark to 88.2 the 44.1Khz the song Transport was playing played double speed. So I can record the analog great if driven by SPDIF directly. But I can't record it (and pass calibration tests) if it uses it's own internal clock. If I run the test anyway it's total junk. The exact same thing happens if I record the Meridian Analog while Transporter plays a file. I can record the file digitally out of the Transporter and it works perfect as expected. Since one side is analog you would not think clocks would matter. But I think they do. I'm curious how folks tested SqueezeBox and Touch with Right Mark. I tried 16/44, 24/44 and 24/88. All the same thing. Oh, if I play a DTS file on Transporter Meridian will decode it. Nothing is mucked with. To SqueezeServer and Transporter it looks just like a FLAC with a WAV in it. If Volume is changed from 100 it will not decode. But just in case I wiped SqueezeServer install and reinstalled (including all settings). -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
