Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-30 Thread w3wilkes


chill wrote: 
> He's a man of wealth and taste.

Nice!
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

An oldie, but a goodie. You can add this to your catchy tunes thread!



Main system - Rock Solid with LMS 7.9.1 Official on WHS 2011 - 2 Duets
and Squeeseslave
Cabin system - Rock solid with LMS 7.9.1 Official on Win10 Pro - 1 RPi 3
Model B/Hifiberry DAC+ Pro/PiCorePlayer and Squeezeslave
Headphones and car - Android phone/Bluetooth w/full library on MicroSD
card - PowerAmp music player app (similar to Material Skin)

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-29 Thread netchord


Julf wrote: 
> I am sorry, but I am not at liberty to discuss the nature of my client.

Socratic Trolls, Inc.



--
4 TB Drobo-->FW 800-->mac mini-->Ethernet
Transporter--> Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax-->Meridian G61
G61--> Nordost Red Dawn-->Primare 30.3
Primare-->Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-29 Thread Julf


netchord wrote: 
> pleased to meet you, i think we've guessed your name; but what's
> puzzling me is the nature of your game?

I am sorry, but I am not at liberty to discuss the nature of my client.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-29 Thread chill


He's a man of wealth and taste.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-29 Thread netchord


Julf wrote: 
> Can you remind me, and explain what specific aspects of audio quality
> they affect, and how?

pleased to meet you, i think we've guessed your name; but what's
puzzling me is the nature of your game?



--
4 TB Drobo-->FW 800-->mac mini-->Ethernet
Transporter--> Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax-->Meridian G61
G61--> Nordost Red Dawn-->Primare 30.3
Primare-->Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-22 Thread pablolie


garym wrote: 
> I used fixed output from the Benchmark and use SB (and ipeng, etc.) to
> control volume.

I use the variable output out of the DAC2HGC to the power amp. The DAC2
colume is around 12oclock as a rule (the Toslink audio out of the TV is
fixed, so I need the DAC2 as a volume control, but seldom change it),
and for music the Touch controls volume anywhere from 40% to 100%. 

Works very well.



...pablo
Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 14 Pro) running Ubuntu
18.04 + LMS 7.9.1
System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval
Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem
Element Fire
Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem
DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub
Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado RS1/Shure
1540

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-18 Thread garym


callesoroe wrote: 
> Hi Gary!
> 
> I have Just purchased a used Benchmark DAC1 and a Touch to powered
> Active Studio Monitors for my little office setup. Do you use the
> variable output of the balanced XLR outputs ?? Or do you use fixed
> output and use SB to
> control volume ??
> 
> Cheers Michael

I used fixed output from the Benchmark and use SB (and ipeng, etc.) to
control volume.



*Home:* VBA 4TB (2.5)>LMS 7.9.2>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all
ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4)>LMS 7.9.1>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio
w/Battery (ethernet, Radio WIFI)
*Office:* Win10(64)>LMS 7.9.2>Squeezelite
*The Wild (no internet): *PiCorePlayer 4.0 on rPi 3B+, hifiberry
Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite) 
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay
7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpa > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-18 Thread callesoroe


garym wrote: 
> 
> p.s. At my weekend cottage I have a TOUCH feeding an original Benchmark
> I DAC.  I use the Benchmark because I had it before I ever had a
> squeezebox and it allows me to use balanced connectors on the analog
> side. I very much like the way this sounds as well.

Hi Gary!

I have Just purchased a used Benchmark DAC1 and a Touch to powered
Active Studio Monitors for my little office setup. Do you use the
variable output of the balanced XLR outputs ?? Or do you use fixed
output and use SB to
control volume ??

Cheers Michael



Callesoroe
Living room: Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan
Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma
PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas)
Kitchen: Receiver - S.M.S.L DAC, Prodipe Pro 5 active bi-amp speakers.
Bedroom: Receiver+UE boombox, Kids: Receiver+Active speakers, Office:
Transporter, JBL LSR305 active speakers , TIDAL HIFI flac streaming.
http://www.last.fm/user/callesoroe

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-17 Thread Julf


sgmlaw wrote: 
> I think I gave you a clue why.  And I think I also identified
> specifically where in the TP corners were cut.

Can you remind me, and explain what specific aspects of audio quality
they affect, and how?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread iwalker


Fizbin wrote: 
> I used to be a "measurements is everything" kind of person. Then I
> started listening to some of the best measured DAC's on Audio Science
> Review and I was surprised to not only hear level matched differences
> with bass/treble, etc, but also soundstage as well. The RME ADI-2
> DAC/PRO for example has a slightly wider soundstage than the
> Transporter, but it's not natural, IMO, as it can shift the vocals too
> far out of the center range. I notice it more with digitized vinyl
> (vinyl typically has a wider soundstage...depending on equipment used)
> than with CD's. I was really excited when I got the ADI-2 and my bias
> was with it all the way but it sounded bright and fatiguing. In all
> fairness, the unit has tons of tweaks but I don't think any of them
> would improve it a great deal.
> 
> I do not believe that the price of a DAC reflects the sound or quality.
> A $4000 or even a $40,000 DAC could possibly be the worst sounding DAC
> out there. I have no doubt in the future that a DAC costing $300 could
> POSSIBLY sound better than the Transporter, but we're not there yet.
> (Unless one has slipped past my radar but I doubt it)
> 
> I'll still check Amir's measurements before buying a DAC but lately I
> find reading comments and reviews (not so much magazine reviews) is more
> beneficial.

I agree, and ( ideally home) demos of audio gear are even better!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread iwalker


Julf wrote: 
> To the same input on the DAC?
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> The jitter from a Touch is below audible levels.

That may be true. I make no claims to the contrary, although some
research indicates that very low levels of jitter can affect sound
quality; I simply enjoy the combination of TP and external DAC far more
than a Touch using the same DAC.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread sgmlaw


Julf wrote: 
> In what way?
> 
> 
> 
> In what way would a  $4,000 DAC be audibly better than a $250-500 DAC?

I think I gave you a clue why.  And I think I also identified
specifically where in the TP corners were cut.

If you connect the dots, the answer should be obvious.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread Fizbin


I used to be a "measurements is everything" kind of person. Then I
started listening to some of the best measured DAC's on Audio Science
Review and I was surprised to not only hear level matched differences
with bass/treble, etc, but also soundstage as well. The RME ADI-2
DAC/PRO for example has a slightly wider soundstage than the
Transporter, but it's not natural, IMO, as it can shift the vocals too
far out of the center range. I notice it more with digitized vinyl
(vinyl typically has a wider soundstage...depending on equipment used)
than with CD's. I was really excited when I got the ADI-2 and my bias
was with it all the way but it sounded bright and fatiguing. In all
fairness, the unit has tons of tweaks but I don't think any of them
would improve it a great deal.

I do not believe that the price of a DAC reflects the sound or quality.
A $4000 or even a $40,000 DAC could possibly be the worst sounding DAC
out there. I have no doubt in the future that a DAC costing $300 could
POSSIBLY sound better than the Transporter, but we're not there yet.
(Unless one has slipped past my radar but I doubt it)

I'll still check Amir's measurements before buying a DAC but lately I
find reading comments and reviews (not so much magazine reviews) is more
beneficial.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread Julf


iwalker wrote: 
> I have no idea! I expected the Touch and TP to produce identical results
> when their digital outputs were connected to the same DAC.
> They certainly don't and I can very easily tell the difference.

To the same input on the DAC?

> Transformer coupled outputs? Lower jitter? I have no idea, but I never
> use the Touch.

The jitter from a Touch is below audible levels.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread iwalker


cfuttrup wrote: 
> Measurements isn't everything, but here's some independent measurements
> of the Yggdrasil:
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-and-review-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/
> 
> Best regards,
> Claus

Thanks Claus.
I have seen that review.
I have no axe to grind; I am just a very satisfied owner and certainly
don't want to get involved in any 'defence' of one product over
another.
I have merely expressed an opinion about what I have found suits me
best.

As you say, measurements aren't everything. I have auditioned some very
expensive DACs with supposedly superior measurements and to me, they all
sounded inferior to both the TP and the Yggdrasil.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread iwalker


Julf wrote: 
> What actual properties of the digital output of the TP do you think
> would be better?

I have no idea! I expected the Touch and TP to produce identical results
when their digital outputs were connected to the same DAC.
They certainly don't and I can very easily tell the difference.
Transformer coupled outputs? Lower jitter? I have no idea, but I never
use the Touch.
If they sounded the same I would sell the TP and keep the Touch.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread cfuttrup

iwalker wrote: 
> I recently bought a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC ( approx £2200)  having
> auditioned several other DACs ranging in price from £500 to £3000,
> none of which sounded any better than the TP's own DAC.
> 
> The combination of the TP and the Schiit DAC is, to my ears,
> outstanding. I certainly prefer it to the TP's internal DAC. The
> 'improvement' is subtle but noticeable and I am extremely happy with it.

Measurements isn't everything, but here's some independent measurements
of the Yggdrasil:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-and-review-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/

Best regards,
Claus



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread Julf


iwalker wrote: 
> This suggests that the digital output stage of the TP has been better
> engineered than the Touch, which is hardly a surprise give the price
> differential!


What actual properties of the digital output of the TP do you think
would be better?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-16 Thread iwalker

Fizbin wrote: 
> The mid range/bass of the Transporter blows away the Touch.
> 
> 
> 
> A TP with a $2000 DAC can be a downgrade as well. The RME ADI-2 PRO, the
> Benchmark DAC3 pale by comparison.


I have both a Touch and a TP ( as well as a Squeezebox Classic and Boom
...)

For many years I used the TP with its own DAC, driving ATC SCM 100 ASL
loudspeakers direct. The results were very, very good.

I recently bought a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC ( approx £2200)  having
auditioned several other DACs ranging in price from £500 to £3000,
none of which sounded any better than the TP's own DAC.

The combination of the TP and the Schiit DAC is, to my ears,
outstanding. I certainly prefer it to the TP's internal DAC. The
'improvement' is subtle but noticeable and I am extremely happy with
it.

The TP was already very good but in my opinion, which of course is
subjective, the external DAC has taken the TP to another level.

Using the digital output from Touch to the same external DAC produces
surprisingly good results, especially considering the cost of the
Touch.

However, the TP/External DAC combination delivers a very noticeable
improvement compared with Touch/DAC.

This suggests that the digital output stage of the TP has been better
engineered than the Touch, which is hardly a surprise give the price
differential!

I use the BNC output from TP, but both the RCA and AES outputs also
sound superior to the RCA output from Touch.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-15 Thread Julf


sgmlaw wrote: 
> If you are using either as a digital head end, the TP is a bit better in
> that role than the Touch. 

In what way?

> For instance, a TP on a $250-500 DAC is likely a downgrade.  But the TP
> soars to another level with a $4,000 one.

In what way would a  $4,000 DAC be audibly better than a $250-500 DAC?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-09 Thread Fizbin


The mid range/bass of the Transporter blows away the Touch.

"For instance, a TP on a $250-500 DAC is likely a downgrade. "

A TP with a $2000 DAC can be a downgrade as well. The RME ADI-2 PRO, the
Benchmark DAC3 pale by comparison.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-10-09 Thread sgmlaw


If you are using either as a digital head end, the TP is a bit better in
that role than the Touch.  But both are very good.

The TP is a superior implementation than the Touch going through to the
output stage.  So in some respects, the Touch is more responsive to an
outboard DAC than a TP is.

But I run both models into more upscale DACs, as even the output stage
of the TP is nothing all that spectacular in comparative terms.

So it may ultimately depend on the caliber of your contemplated outboard
DAC as to which SB is a better fit for you.  

For instance, a TP on a $250-500 DAC is likely a downgrade.  But the TP
soars to another level with a $4,000 one.  

And as I just mentioned in another thread, a Touch can be elevated into
a budget-priced killer streamer when paired to something like an old CAL
Alpha.

YMMV.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-23 Thread pablolie


I use an external DAC with a Touch,



...pablo
Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 14 Pro) running Ubuntu
18.04 + LMS 7.9.1
System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval
Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem
Element Fire
Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem
DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub
Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado RS1/Shure
1540

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-23 Thread robinbowes


I might be able to tell you soon as I'm going to dig out my Transporter
again (have been using a Touch for some time as it sits nicely on my
desk).

R.



Net-UDAP is free software - you do not have to pay for it.
However, if you found it useful, please consider donating:
https://paypal.me/RobinBowes

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-19 Thread garym


w3wilkes wrote: 
> So a fun experiment would be to do a double blind - set up by @Archimago
> - comparing the Touch to the Transporter. That "extremely cool" look
> could make the Transporter sound better. ;) Not saying there's anything
> wrong with an "extremely cool" look!

valid point and good idea as I certainly believe in unintentional
biases! 

However, it is unlikely the "look" of the Transporter that drives things
for me.  The Transporter and amp and preamp are all stuck in side a
cabinet. I only see any of these things if I open the doors (which I
rarely do).   I control everything with either my laptop or ipeng or
CONTROLLER.  The amp tuns on based on receiving audio. So I never have
to fiddle with the equipment.  This said, it is certainly possible that
even thinking that the Transporter looks cool, without even seeing it
makes me like it!

p.s. At my weekend cottage I have a TOUCH feeding an original Benchmark
I DAC.  I use the Benchmark because I had it before I ever had a
squeezebox and it allows me to use balanced connectors on the analog
side. I very much like the way this sounds as well.



*Home:* VBA 4TB (2.5)>LMS 7.9.2>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all
ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4)>LMS 7.9.1>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio
w/Battery (ethernet, Radio WIFI)
*Office:* Win10(64)>LMS 7.9.2>Squeezelite
*The Wild (no internet): *PiCorePlayer 4.0 on rPi 3B+, hifiberry
Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite) 
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay
7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpa > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-18 Thread w3wilkes


garym wrote: 
> So I have no shortage of squeezebox hardware units. So my actual
> behavior suggests that I really, really like my Transporter.

So a fun experiment would be to do a double blind - set up by @Archimago
- comparing the Touch to the Transporter. That "extremely cool" look
could make the Transporter sound better. ;) Not saying there's anything
wrong with an "extremely cool" look!



Main system - Rock Solid with LMS 7.9.1 Official on WHS 2011 - 2 Duets
and Squeeseslave
Cabin system - Rock solid with LMS 7.9.1 Official on Win10 Pro - 1 RPi 3
Model B/Hifiberry DAC+ Pro/PiCorePlayer and Squeezeslave

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-18 Thread garym

garym wrote: 
> No. And there is only one transporter. The later production doesn’t have
> the transknob, but the insides are identical.

I should add to my previous response.  I really like my transporter.
It's in my main system. And I bought a second "new in box" Transporter a
couple of years ago as a backup. And I have about 4 new in box Touch
players I bought as backup back when they were cheap and just
discontinued.  So I have no shortage of squeezebox hardware units. So my
actual behavior suggests that I really, really like my Transporter.



*Home:* VBA 4TB (2.5)>LMS 7.9.2>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all
ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4)>LMS 7.9.1>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio
w/Battery (ethernet, Radio WIFI)
*Office:* Win10(64)>LMS 7.9.2>Squeezelite
*The Wild (no internet): *PiCorePlayer 4.0 on rPi 3B+, hifiberry
Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite) 
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay
7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpa > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-18 Thread Fizbin


Zombie wrote: 
> Do I get a jaw dropping improvement with a Transporter? Which
> Transporter model is regarded as the best?

Jaw dropping? Perhaps not, but IMO the Transporter is a big step up from
the Touch as far as sound quality is concerned and I'm not a Transporter
fanatic. In fact, I've been trying to jump ship to a USB DAC only setup
for awhile but I can't find a reasonably priced DAC that sounds better.
(That includes the RME ADI-2 DAC which I just tried)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-08 Thread garym

Zombie wrote: 
> Do I get a jaw dropping improvement with a Transporter? Which
> Transporter model is regarded as the best?

No. And there is only one transporter. The later production doesn’t have
the transknob, but the insides are identical.



*Home:* VBA 4TB (2.5)>LMS 7.9.2>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all
ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4)>LMS 7.9.1>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio
w/Battery (ethernet, Radio WIFI)
*Office:* Win10(64)>LMS 7.9.2>Squeezelite
*The Wild (no internet): *PiCorePlayer 4.0 on rPi 3B+, hifiberry
Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite) 
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay
7.8 on Win10(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpa > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Touch with EDO

2019-09-08 Thread Zombie


Do I get a jaw dropping improvement with a Transporter? Which
Transporter model is regarded as the best?



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