Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-16 Thread drmatt

 yawn. ;)





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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-16 Thread alfista

Or sticking to media analogies. Looking at a picture in a book, closing
the book, opening it again to look at the same picture. Call me sceptic,
but I don't feel the need to verify that it looks the same. This is the
case here, nothing the player is aware of has changed.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-16 Thread Julf

edwardthern wrote: 
> No not the same as putting too much salt on food, because I know what
> thats like. Its more like putting a spice on some food that you never
> tasted and commenting on how it tastes.

OK, bad analogy. A better one would be seeing someone shining a
flashlight at the food.Do I really need to taste it to know it won't
make any difference?

> But then we know what Heaven looks like don't we.:D

Some people claim they do...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-15 Thread edwardthern

Julf wrote: 
> You mean like when you see someone putting far too much salt in your
> food, or seeing them overcook it until it is black?
> 
> 
> 
> Not as amazing as how it makes you think you see and hear things that
> actually aren't there... :)

No not the same as putting too much salt on food, because I know what
thats like. Its more like putting a spice on some food that you never
tasted and commenting on how it tastes.

Funny thing is people can HEAR what something sounds like without
listening, so why not know what something tastes like without tasting?
But then we know what Heaven looks like don't we.:D



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-15 Thread Julf

edwardthern wrote: 
> Instead of listening to it, I just used my own reasoning and logic to
> determine how it would sound. Kind of like seeing a food or hearing
> about a food and automatically saying its nasty. 

You mean like when you see someone putting far too much salt in your
food, or seeing them overcook it until it is black?

> Amazing how powerful my brain is.I can hear and taste things without
> actually hearing it or tasting it...:p:p

Not as amazing as how it makes you think you see and hear things that
actually aren't there... :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-15 Thread edwardthern

Instead of listening to it, I just used my own reasoning and logic to
determine how it would sound. Kind of like seeing a food or hearing
about a food and automatically saying its nasty. 

Amazing how powerful my brain is.I can hear and taste things without
actually hearing it or tasting it...:p:p



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-05 Thread drmatt

Which I already said... :)





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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-05 Thread SuperQ

tingtong5 wrote: 
> 
> The second time a track plays, it is read from the linux OS disk cache
> instead from disk. This means the track is played from RAM memory
> instead of from the hard drive that contains the file (track).
> 

This is not exactly true.  Linux always copies data from the disk to the
cache first, except in the case of the application specifies something
like O_DIRECT.  So what you're saying isn't physically possible.

See also: Expectation bias.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-05 Thread DJanGo

tingtong5 wrote: 
> It works with /dev/null, the amount of cached bytes increases with the
> size of the copied file.

hmm again...


Code:

ls -l /dev/null
  crw-rw-rw- 1 *root root* 1, 3 Okt 23 13:51 /dev/null
  



where is the failure?



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-05 Thread Mnyb

There is also a lack of context ? Is this suposed tweak for a local
player or a networked one ? The later removes most plausability for
this, op does not say ? He tweaks lms ? But lms has no sound .

It can be a case of creating your own problems bend SoX arm far enough
and i'm sure you can make it sound different :/

Also whats good about processing a stream for every player , i use lms
as intended i just send flac files to the players and use the
transcoding framework to solve corner cases and compatabilty issues ?




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-05 Thread drmatt

cliveb wrote: 
> I don't see how there's anything dumb about this. The whole point of
> Unix is that it's built from lots of uncomplicated components (that you
> might like to classify as "dumb"), and it's the way you combine them
> that results in "clever" outcomes.
> 
> cp has no knowledge of what /dev/null is. As far as cp is concerned,
> it's copying a file there, and it's the operating system's device
> handler that knows /dev/null is special and to just chuck away all data
> piped to it. Imagine how tiresome it would be for application developers
> if every program had to independently recognise the special case of its
> output being sent to /dev/null.

I like my utilities dumb. Less to go wrong.





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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Apesbrain

tingtong5 wrote: 
> This is why I posted in the Audiophiles subforum :D
I meant nothing personal as I'd have replied in the same way no matter
who posted it.  The "Audiophiles" sub is not a safe zone where anything
goes; post a "miraculous discovery" and you should expect to be
challenged.  Thirty seconds on Google would have taught you that your
observation is a known psycho-acoustic effect as Mynb has pointed out.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Wombat

tingtong5 wrote: 
> Yes it does ;-) Can't seem to find it though, a link would be
> apreciated. :p

Mans Rullgard lately added dsd support.  At another place Mans mentioned
the ultra mode. I compiled an early version back then and -u works.
Since it works with his snapshot it must be in the SoX main a while now.

https://github.com/mansr/sox
I did not check much but the stop band must be above -180dB with it.
Since even vhq and its -165dB stop band is overkill for some tasks and
can harm sometimes i don't really need it. For others it is blacker
blacks...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread cliveb

drmatt wrote: 
> Ok, it seems cp is too dumb to not write.
I don't see how there's anything dumb about this. The whole point of
Unix is that it's built from lots of uncomplicated components (that you
might like to classify as "dumb"), and it's the way you combine them
that results in "clever" outcomes.

cp has no knowledge of what /dev/null is. As far as cp is concerned,
it's copying a file there, and it's the operating system's device
handler that knows /dev/null is special and to just chuck away all data
piped to it. Imagine how tiresome it would be for application developers
if every program had to independently recognise the special case of its
output being sent to /dev/null.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread tingtong5

Wombat wrote: 
> I knew ULTRA makes guys horny, look further, it is out there!
Yes it does ;-) Can't seem to find it though, a link would be
apreciated. :p



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Wombat

tingtong5 wrote: 
> Nothing about an ultra quality mode?
I knew ULTRA makes guys horny, look further, it is out there!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Julf

drmatt wrote: 
> Oh I don't know, I like it when people copy dev null to their hard drive
> instead of the other way around.

True, but think of all the disk space it frees up...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread d6jg

drmatt wrote: 
> Oh I don't know, I like it when people copy dev null to their hard drive
> instead of the other way around.

:)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread drmatt

Julf wrote: 
> And why wouldn't it be? Not much damage anyone can do with it...
Oh I don't know, I like it when people copy dev null to their hard drive
instead of the other way around.





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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread tingtong5

Checked the source code (rate.c) of latest sox from git.


Code:


  static char const * lines[] = {
  "[-q|-l|-m|-h|-v] [override-options] RATE[k]",
  "BAND-",
  " QUALITYWIDTH  REJ dB   TYPICAL USE",
  " -q  quick  n/a  ~30 @ Fs/4 playback on ancient hardware",
  " -l  low80% 100 playback on old hardware",
  " -m  medium 95% 100 audio playback",
  " -h  high (default) 95% 125 16-bit mastering (use with dither)",
  " -v  very high  95% 175 24-bit mastering",
  "  OVERRIDE OPTIONS (only with -m, -h, -v)",
  " -M/-I/-L Phase response = minimum/intermediate/linear(default)",
  " -s   Steep filter (band-width = 99%)",
  " -a   Allow aliasing above the pass-band",
  " -b 74-99.7   Any band-width %",
  " -p 0-100 Any phase response (0 = minimum, 25 = intermediate,",
  "  50 = linear, 100 = maximum)",
  };
  


Nothing about an ultra quality mode?



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Julf

drmatt wrote: 
> Not sure I agree with this statement. /dev/null is writeable by all,
> always

And why wouldn't it be? Not much damage anyone can do with it...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread drmatt

DJanGo wrote: 
> Hmmm
> All linux systems that i am aware of didnt allow a user to use
> /dev/null.

Not sure I agree with this statement. /dev/null is writeable by all,
always.





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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread drmatt

Julf wrote: 
> Thanks for verifying that!
So cp is too dumb to not write. Things like "tar" are smarter. If it
can't seek on output it doesn't even bother reading the input. That's
been a thorn in my side on numerous occasions in the past too..





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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Julf

tingtong5 wrote: 
> It works with /dev/null, the amount of cached bytes increases with the
> size of the copied file.

Thanks for verifying that!



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread tingtong5

Guys in my first post I already stated that the improvement I heard is
subjective and not a proven fact. 

I will stop posting now in this thread, as I do not feel like
participating in a bullshit or not bullshit kind of discussion. I just
wanted to share my personal subjective experience and technical solution
for this, thats all.

Ronald



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread tingtong5

Julf wrote: 
> /tmp is a real file system, so of course the files get both read and
> written. /dev/null is a special case.

It works with /dev/null, the amount of cached bytes increases with the
size of the copied file.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Julf

tingtong5 wrote: 
> This was simply tested by first using /tmp instead of /dev/null, the
> played tracks were indeed copied to /tmp.

/tmp is a real file system, so of course the files get both read and
written. /dev/null is a special case.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread Julf

tingtong5 wrote: 
> Having an opinion is fine, but getting personal does not help a lot most
> of the times.

I don't think Apesbrain intended his comment as a personal attack - one
of the meanings of the expression "I call bullshit" is "to have found
something at odds with a generally accepted truth". 

See the 'Urban Dictionary'
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20call%20bullshit).



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread tingtong5

Apesbrain wrote: 
> Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and call bullshit on this.
Having an opinion is fine, but getting personal does not help a lot most
of the times.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-04 Thread tingtong5

drmatt wrote: 
> You would have to check the system call activity behind this command.
> You might find that the cp command recognises that its output is invalid
> and never does the reads from the source file. .
This was simply tested by first using /tmp instead of /dev/null, the
played tracks were indeed copied to /tmp.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread Mnyb

tingtong5 wrote: 
> After noticiting that playing a track for the second time sounds better
> then the first time, I did some research

You have noticed a known psychoacoustic phenomen . Indeed playing the
same thing again can sometimes sound different ,some one else did the
reasearch too , but rigth :) it's a whole field of science .

Another sanity check is the player a software on the same box or a real
squeezebox over the network ?

If it's a real squeezebox the server can only influence the sound with
for example buffer underruns i.e. Stuttering due the communication
problems ( not a subtle effect ) the same file send by different server
is the same to the player as long as the buffer is reasonably filled .
The player is truly agnostic to the server it's not a soundcard that
depends on some low level stuff on the server computer.




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread DJanGo

tingtong5 wrote: 
> 
> > 
Code:

  >   > 
  > cp $FILE$ /dev/null
  > 

> > 
> 
> Search for the differences  ;D
> 
> Maybe someone else likes to try this as well :-)
Hmmm
All linux systems that i am aware of didnt allow a user to use
/dev/null.
That means you've running lms as a sudoer /root , changed some
permissions, or its audiophooolish shirbull.

You didnt write above the first two things, but gracefully opend the the
thread here in the a. Thread subsystem.
That means must be the last one.

Honestly these hacks are .



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread badboygolf16v

tingtong5 wrote: 
> Maybe someone else likes to try this as well :-)

Thanks, but, no thanks... :-)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread Apesbrain

Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and call bullshit on this.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread Wombat

How can it sound even remotely good when you don't upsample with the use
of the latest ULTRA (-u) setting with SoX? VHQ is MidFi at best.



Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA
monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread drmatt

You would have to check the system call activity behind this command.
You might find that the cp command recognises that its output is invalid
and never does the reads from the source file. Secondly note that the
kernel will read-ahead when the first byte is read from a file, to the
tune of quite a lot of blocks. Thus every single read apart from the
first one comes from RAM anyway...





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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] free upgrade for linux LMS users

2016-11-03 Thread tingtong5

After noticiting that playing a track for the second time it sounds
better then the first time, I did some research.

The second time a track plays, its read from the linux OS disk cache
instead from disk. This means the track is played from RAM memory
instead of from the hard drive that containt the file (track).

So I was looking for a way to copy a track to RAM memory before it is
being played. I came up with a very simple but effective solution that
works fine.

By modifying my custom-convert.conf from:


Code:


  flc flc * *
  # FT:{START=--skip=%t}U:{END=--until=%v}
  [flac] -dcs $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [sox14.4.2] -v0.98 --buffer 32768 -q -t 
wav - -t flac -e signed -C0 -b24 - rate -v -M -a -b 90.7 96000 dither -S
  



to:


Code:


  flc flc * *
  # FT:{START=--skip=%t}U:{END=--until=%v}
  cp $FILE$ /dev/null; [flac] -dcs $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [sox14.4.2] -v0.98 
--buffer 32768 -q -t wav - -t flac -e signed -C0 -b24 - rate -v -M -a -b 90.7 
96000 dither -S
  



Search for the difference  ;D

It's this:
cp $FILE$ /dev/null; 
before the sox upsampling command. 

What this does is: copy the file (track) to the null device. This is
very fast, because the null device is virtual and does not require disk
writes. As a result the file (track) has been read once from disk and is
now in the linux disk cache.

On the OS level I could test and prove this really works! So all music
tracks now play from RAM memory, resulting in a more stable stereo
image. And yes that is very subjective ;-)

Maybe someone else likes to try this as well :-)



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