Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Nothing really new . Meridian realised in the early 90's that the way forward was digital active DSP controlled speakers ( other realised that active speakers was needed in the 60-70's ormpossiblynearlier for pa ) . The Meridian speakers are not perfect I'm not saying that what I have is actually prof of concept designs IMO ( se my signature ) In a different world I had 80 other brands of DSP driven active HT systems to choose from that could accommodate for different taste and acoustics ,speakers are never gona be neutral , so you must pick your poison . And they would cost 1/20 of my Meridian system . So thank you conservative audiophiles for keeping us in the dark ages by paying the likes of audionote money and buying those cables and tube dampers etc :( It did not really helped that with the inception of DVDA and SACD in the early 00's it usually was an absolute no no from the media industries to allow hi res digital out !? Especially for all 6 channels ( another missed opurtunity ). Meridian and some few other where some kind of exception . So when I bought my prof of concept lab kit from M :) it was one of the few that could take 6*24/96 signals do all DSP volume and xover and eq in the digital domain and just leave the analog to drive the elements in the speaker . In my pow this was the way to do it but why was it not more common and why so expensive . It actually not rocket science and any big brand far eastern mfg could do it if any one wanted it ,sadly that was/is not the case . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
jimbobvfr400 wrote: Yes it's 1 paragraph in a very interesting 5 page article. Worth a read IMO Yep. And especially... With a good active speaker design it's not just cables. If you do this right you don't need (and don't WANT) DACs, preamps, power amps, DSPs and all that other stuff that makes a hifi system today. Just speakers with a network connection and a display somewhere else to show what's playing. And that setup will actually beat everything you get in terms of high-end audio today at what's probably a few percent of the price. It will come, I'm not worried. First progress has been made, these days you don't really have to use a preamp and there's also no passive crossover in modern speakers anymore. There are speakers that can run directly on RL encoded digital signals (actually, they have been around for 20 years or so so progress isn't always fast, indeed) so you don't need a DAC and so on. I'm not worried about the few audiophiles who believe in their collection of expensive signal-loss accumulators, let them do as they like and be happy with it, all others can experience superior audio at a lower price, that's fine. What worried me more was the convergence with devices for video because the requirements are so different and a lot of vendors thought that - since movies need sound as well - video equipment could do music, too. That has let development stall a lot. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
pippin wrote: Yep. And especially... With a good active speaker design it's not just cables. If you do this right you don't need (and don't WANT) DACs, preamps, power amps, DSPs and all that other stuff that makes a hifi system today. Just speakers with a network connection and a display somewhere else to show what's playing. And that setup will actually beat everything you get in terms of high-end audio today at what's probably a few percent of the price. It will come, I'm not worried. First progress has been made, these days you don't really have to use a preamp and a power amp and there's also no passive crossover in modern speakers anymore. There are speakers that can run directly on RL encoded digital signals (actually, they have been around for 20 years or so so progress isn't always fast, indeed) so you don't need a DAC and so on. I'm not worried about the few audiophiles who believe in their collection of expensive signal-loss accumulators, let them do as they like and be happy with it, all others can experience superior audio at a lower price, that's fine. What worried me more was the convergence with devices for video because the requirements are so different and a lot of vendors thought that - since movies need sound as well - video equipment could do music, too. That has let development stall a lot. But what I really found interesting is that it seems to be possible, these days, to also get progress in getting correct phasing for your signal and I also wasn't aware that the brain actually can _better_ suppress multipath from omnidirectional speakers. I just asked that stupid question (assuming more multipath would make things more difficult, not easier) to a maker of such speaker a few weeks ago, you never stop learning. http://www.teenageengineering.com/products/od-11/ 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3, SB BOOM - Vortexbox@HP SFF iPod Touch\iPeng bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Pippin was it not you that used Adam active speakers ? I have one of the small models as computer speakers Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Mnyb wrote: Pippin was it not you that used Adam active speakers ? Yes, I do. Although there's certainly much more potential for good sound quality than what they offer but for the size they have it's a good start. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
bernt wrote: http://www.teenageengineering.com/products/od-11/ Right concept but in the speaker design they do pretty much everything that article condemns. Bass-reflex, putting speakers WITHIN a housing and so on... It's the same kind of integrated approach but I wouldn't expect superior sound from it. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
pippin wrote: Right concept but in the speaker design they do pretty much everything that article condemns. Bass-reflex, putting speakers WITHIN a housing, beamforming and so on... It's the same kind of integrated approach but I wouldn't expect superior sound from it. It's a Stig Carlsson design. http://www.teenageengineering.com/od-11 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3, SB BOOM - Vortexbox@HP SFF iPod Touch\iPeng bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Yea, but if you read the article it's EXACTLY the kind of speaker design that completely ignores phase and impulse response. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Two more choice quotes from the article: The rarity of such devices suggests that the reasons are not technical and that the application of logic is absent: almost the definition of audiophile behaviour. When the sound from a tablet has rapidly become so good considering the serious constraints of size, weight, power and cost it is a sad reflection on the squalid state of audiophilia that the sound of a legacy loudspeaker has made little progress for years despite those constraints being absent. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesnt. That leaves the door open for IT companies to take over hi-fi markets. One obvious tool IT can bring to the party is DSP-based room correction, so that the variations in response due to inevitable standing waves in the room can be compensated. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
did you mean to include a URL? aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Oh dear - another senior moment!! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/02/feature_the_future_loudspeaker_design/?page=5 Mushroom_3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13434 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Thanks for the sample, because it's a very good indication that the article is worthless. Separates became common in audio systems LONG before there was a cable market. And do you really think that a dealer selling, say, a $5,000 set of preamp and amplifier does so only to sell a pair of $500 interconnects? That doesn't even make sense. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
How about reading the article first ;) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Yes it's 1 paragraph in a very interesting 5 page article. Worth a read IMO Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk jimbobvfr400's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56857 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
