Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7

[stephenk]

Apparently, if you don't use your real handle, you're a knob. 

SWK

(who pretty much only ever signs _any_ correspondence _anywhere_ with
SWK, so is probably a partial knob? Maybe that makes me a push
button?)

- Original Message -
From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
To:"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 6 Jun 2017 10:05:50 +0100
Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7

I can't get a handle on who's a knob and who's not  
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Laurie Simpkins  wrote:
  I tried to get on and thanks the earlier posts for the links to
knobs but was too busy having a laugh over what we argue about on this
forum. Knobs and handles. There may be a pun in there

 Priceless
 Thsnks to the earlier posts.

 Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone on the Telstra™ Mobile
network

  aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au [2] wrote 

  Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
     aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au [3]

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
     http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring [4]
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
     aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au [5]

 You can reach the person managing the list at
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 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Undulatus Asperatus Cloud Video

[Nelson Handcock]

Stunning!

Thanks & Regards,

Nelson Handcock


On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Anthony Smith  wrote:

> Another short video from Mike Olbinski who is a US storm chaser doing time
> lapse movies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3lqckbt_E
>
>
>
> Best watched at high resolution.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Undulatus Asperatus Cloud Video

[Teal]

Oh, that's a lovely bit of footage. Mike Olbinski does seriously good 
work. If there's anyone here who hasn't checked out his "Vorticity" 
short film ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikezauFFe0w ) I suggest you 
do so. Wonderful stuff! (...as is all the rest of his output.)



Teal


On 7/06/2017 9:08 AM, Anthony Smith wrote:


Another short video from Mike Olbinski who is a US storm chaser doing 
time lapse movies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3lqckbt_E


Best watched at high resolution.

Anthony



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[Aus-soaring] Undulatus Asperatus Cloud Video

[Anthony Smith]

Another short video from Mike Olbinski who is a US storm chaser doing time
lapse movies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3lqckbt_E  

 

Best watched at high resolution.

 

Anthony

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7

[Matthew Scutter]

I can't get a handle on who's a knob and who's not

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Laurie Simpkins 
wrote:

> I tried to get on and thanks the earlier posts for the links to knobs but
> was too busy having a laugh over what we argue about on this forum. Knobs
> and handles. There may be a pun in there
>
> Priceless
> Thsnks to the earlier posts.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone on the Telstra™ Mobile network
>
>  aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au wrote 
>
> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> aus-soaring-ow...@lists.base64.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7

[Laurie Simpkins]

I tried to get on and thanks the earlier posts for the links to knobs but was 
too busy having a laugh over what we argue about on this forum. Knobs and 
handles. There may be a pun in there

Priceless
Thsnks to the earlier posts.



Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone on the Telstra™ Mobile network

 aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au wrote 

Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au

You can reach the person managing the list at
aus-soaring-ow...@lists.base64.com.au

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

[Teal]

Not a pseudonym.

I notice that the person generating the largest amount of uncivil 
discourse this afternoon is doing so under their "real name". I guess 
"real names" don't guarantee a darn thing when it comes to posting 
manners, after all.



Teal


On 6/06/2017 5:14 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
"DMcD"  who or whatever he/she/it  is. The only other recently seemed 
to be "Teal".


 Everyone else seems to notice that people use their real names and go 
along with that.



Mike

At 05:29 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Language: en-AU
Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="_004_ME1PR01MB09459CB78105637A3D691CB4BBCB0ME1PR01MB0945ausp_";
type="multipart/alternative"

Just out of interest who is posting under a pseudonym

Justin Sinclair
17 Queen St
Scarborough Qld

0421061811

Sent from my iPad

On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:26 pm, Mike Borgelt 
> wrote:



Sounds much like "Air America" by Christopher Robbins.

At one time the CIA allegedly owned so many airlines and aircraft 
and had confused the issue so well, the boss couldn't find out 
exactly how many aircraft they owned.


If you have a Callair towplane,  it was built by Intermountain Air 
which at one time was a CIA front.



Mike




At 04:26 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_002D_01D2DEE1.A4F652A0"
Content-Language: en-au

Yeah,
The NSF have plenty of dash err cash!
Take for example the IceCube Neutrino Observatory located at the 
Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, built over the years 2005 – 
2010, and estimated to have cost $229 million. JJust getting the 
parts (including those for the -hot water - drilling rig), to the 
site kept their own private airline busy  for  years. God only 
knows what else this fleet does, or where it does it!


Gary
PS As an aside,  google “murder at the south pole” re the death 
of Rodney Marks. What is of major interest  is that although New 
Zealand has legal jurisdiction here, the NSF was very easily able 
to gag the NZ investigator, and also spirit Marks’ body away: 
handy having you own fleet.


*From:* Aus-soaring [ 
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
] *On Behalf Of 
*Mike Borgelt

*Sent:* Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:15 PM
*To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
*Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

LOL! I think you'll find that adding the Voodoo sciences is fairly 
recent so that the mediocre don't feel too left out. aka "political 
correctness". Shows the problems of letting an organisation like 
the NSF define itself. It appears to be a US Federal government 
body which doles out federal taxpayer funding to universities and a 
few other bodies. OF COURSE they'll be as inclusive as possible. 
Helps get more money by creating larger pressure groups.


I remember only a couple of years ago STEM generally was taken to 
mean Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics and social and 
political science didn't count.



I make a small exception for psychology in that there is a 
legitimate part of it that deals with human perception/reaction aka 
human factors research which is what science/science fiction Jerry 
Pournelle did at Boeing back in the 1950s. There was even a TV 
series back in the late 50s about that sort of thing, "The Man and 
the Challenge". It is on youtube.


Mike

At 02:02 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_001B_01D2DECD.7D28BF10"
Content-Language: en-au

The National Science Foundation (NSF) definition of *STEM* fields 
includes mathematics, natural sciences, engineering, computer and 
information sciences, and the social and behavioral sciences – 
*psychology*, ecoonomics, sociology, and political science.


*From:* Aus-soaring [ 
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
] *On Behalf Of 
*Mike Borgelt

*Sent:* Tuesday, 6 June 2017 1:27 PM
*To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
*Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers smaller than what 
a car manufacturer would put through the production line to debug 
the line.


It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do 
the job.


I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or 
manufactured anything. Academic, but not from any STEM fields who 
can't do physics or maths?


Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The vast majority of 
people in this place identify themselves.


Mike


At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more? Most 
cars costing more than say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is 
not just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not cost $50,000 extra 
to do that. A wheelbarrow handle is designed to be held like 
'this'… and an aircraft ccontrol column is designed too be 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

[Richard Frawley]

its email address is Sluts Wool

funny name





> On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:44 pm, Mike Borgelt  
> wrote:
> 
> "DMcD"  who or whatever he/she/it  is. The only other recently seemed to be 
> "Teal".
> 
>  Everyone else seems to notice that people use their real names and go along 
> with that.
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> At 05:29 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:
>> Content-Language: en-AU
>> Content-Type: multipart/related;
>>  
>> boundary="_004_ME1PR01MB09459CB78105637A3D691CB4BBCB0ME1PR01MB0945ausp_";
>>  type="multipart/alternative"
>> 
>> Just out of interest who is posting under a pseudonym 
>> 
>> Justin Sinclair 
>> 17 Queen St
>> Scarborough Qld
>> 
>> 0421061811
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:26 pm, Mike Borgelt < mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>> Sounds much like "Air America" by Christopher Robbins.
>>> 
>>> At one time the CIA allegedly owned so many airlines and aircraft and had 
>>> confused the issue so well, the boss couldn't find out exactly how many 
>>> aircraft they owned.
>>> 
>>> If you have a Callair towplane,  it was built by Intermountain Air which at 
>>> one time was a CIA front.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 04:26 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:
 Content-Type: multipart/related;
  boundary="=_NextPart_000_002D_01D2DEE1.A4F652A0"
 Content-Language: en-au
 
 Yeah,
 The NSF have plenty of dash err cash!
 Take for example the IceCube Neutrino Observatory located at the 
 Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, built over the years 2005 – 2010, and 
 estimated to have cost $229 million. JJust getting the parts (including 
 those for the -hot water - drilling rig), to the site kept their own 
 private airline busy  for  years. God only knows what else this fleet 
 does, or where it does it!
  
 Gary
 PS As an aside,  google “murder at the south pole” re the death of 
 Rodney Marks. What is of major interest  is that although  New Zealand has 
 legal jurisdiction here, the NSF was very easily able to gag the NZ 
 investigator, and also spirit Marks’ body away: handy having you own 
 fleet.
  
 From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
 ] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt
 Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:15 PM
 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields
  
 LOL! I think you'll find that adding the Voodoo sciences is fairly recent 
 so that the mediocre don't feel too left out. aka "political correctness". 
 Shows the problems of letting an organisation like the NSF define itself. 
 It appears to be a US Federal government body which doles out federal 
 taxpayer funding to universities and a few other bodies. OF COURSE they'll 
 be as inclusive as possible. Helps get more money by creating larger 
 pressure groups.
 
 I remember only a couple of years ago STEM generally was taken to mean 
 Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics and social and political 
 science didn't count.
 
 
 I make a small exception for psychology in that there is a legitimate part 
 of it that deals with human perception/reaction aka human factors research 
 which is what science/science fiction Jerry Pournelle did at Boeing back 
 in the 1950s. There was even a TV series back in the late 50s about that 
 sort of thing, "The Man and the Challenge". It is on youtube.
 
 Mike
 
 At 02:02 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:
 
 Content-Type: multipart/related;
  boundary="=_NextPart_000_001B_01D2DECD.7D28BF10"
 Content-Language: en-au
 
 The National Science Foundation (NSF) definition of STEM fields includes 
 mathematics, natural sciences, engineering, computer and information 
 sciences, and the social and behavioral sciences – psychology, ecoonomics, 
 sociology, and political science.
  
 From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
 ] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt
 Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 1:27 PM
 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
  
 Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers smaller than what a car 
 manufacturer would put through the production line to debug the line.
 
 It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job.
 
 I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or manufactured 
 anything. Academic, but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or 
 maths?
 
 Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The vast majority of people 
 in this place identify themselves.
 
 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

[Justin Sinclair]

I always thought it was Dave McDonald :)

Justin Sinclair
17 Queen St
Scarborough Qld

0421061811

Sent from my iPad

On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:45 pm, Mike Borgelt 
> wrote:

"DMcD"  who or whatever he/she/it  is. The only other recently seemed to be 
"Teal".

 Everyone else seems to notice that people use their real names and go along 
with that.


Mike

At 05:29 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:
Content-Language: en-AU
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 
boundary="_004_ME1PR01MB09459CB78105637A3D691CB4BBCB0ME1PR01MB0945ausp_";
 type="multipart/alternative"

Just out of interest who is posting under a pseudonym

Justin Sinclair
17 Queen St
Scarborough Qld

0421061811

Sent from my iPad

On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:26 pm, Mike Borgelt < 
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

Sounds much like "Air America" by Christopher Robbins.

At one time the CIA allegedly owned so many airlines and aircraft and had 
confused the issue so well, the boss couldn't find out exactly how many 
aircraft they owned.

If you have a Callair towplane,  it was built by Intermountain Air which at one 
time was a CIA front.


Mike




At 04:26 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_002D_01D2DEE1.A4F652A0"
Content-Language: en-au

Yeah,
The NSF have plenty of dash err cash!
Take for example the IceCube Neutrino Observatory located at the Amundsen-Scott 
South Pole Station, built over the years 2005 – 2010, and estimated to have 
cost $229 million. JJust getting the parts (including those for the -hot water 
- drilling rig), to the site kept their own private airline busy  for  years. 
God only knows what else this fleet does, or where it does it!

Gary
PS As an aside,  google “murder at the south pole” re the death of Rodney 
Marks. What is of major interest  is that although  New Zealand has legal 
jurisdiction here, the NSF was very easily able to gag the NZ investigator, and 
also spirit Marks’ body away: handy having you own fleet.

From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf 
Of Mike Borgelt
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

LOL! I think you'll find that adding the Voodoo sciences is fairly recent so 
that the mediocre don't feel too left out. aka "political correctness". Shows 
the problems of letting an organisation like the NSF define itself. It appears 
to be a US Federal government body which doles out federal taxpayer funding to 
universities and a few other bodies. OF COURSE they'll be as inclusive as 
possible. Helps get more money by creating larger pressure groups.

I remember only a couple of years ago STEM generally was taken to mean Science, 
Technology, Engineering, Mathematics and social and political science didn't 
count.


I make a small exception for psychology in that there is a legitimate part of 
it that deals with human perception/reaction aka human factors research which 
is what science/science fiction Jerry Pournelle did at Boeing back in the 
1950s. There was even a TV series back in the late 50s about that sort of 
thing, "The Man and the Challenge". It is on youtube.

Mike

At 02:02 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_001B_01D2DECD.7D28BF10"
Content-Language: en-au

The National Science Foundation (NSF) definition of STEM fields includes 
mathematics, natural sciences, engineering, computer and information sciences, 
and the social and behavioral sciences – psychology, ecoonomics, sociology, and 
political science.

From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf 
Of Mike Borgelt
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 1:27 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers smaller than what a car 
manufacturer would put through the production line to debug the line.

It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job.

I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or manufactured 
anything. Academic, but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or maths?

Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The vast majority of people in 
this place identify themselves.

Mike


At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more? Most cars costing 
>>more than say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not just a cheap plastic 
>>moulding. It does not cost $50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow handle is 
>>designed to be held like 'this'… and an aircraft ccontrol column is designed 
>>too be held like 'that'… diffeerent ergonomics. One is dessigned to be 
>>gripped hard and the other should not be. If you don't get the difference, 
>>have a look at the 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

[Mike Borgelt]

"DMcD"  who or whatever he/she/it  is. The only 
other recently seemed to be "Teal".


 Everyone else seems to notice that people use 
their real names and go along with that.



Mike

At 05:29 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Language: en-AU
Content-Type: multipart/related;

boundary="_004_ME1PR01MB09459CB78105637A3D691CB4BBCB0ME1PR01MB0945ausp_";
type="multipart/alternative"

Just out of interest who is posting under a pseudonym

Justin Sinclair
17 Queen St
Scarborough Qld

0421061811

Sent from my iPad

On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:26 pm, Mike Borgelt 
<mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> 
wrote:



Sounds much like "Air America" by Christopher Robbins.

At one time the CIA allegedly owned so many 
airlines and aircraft and had confused the 
issue so well, the boss couldn't find out exactly how many aircraft they owned.


If you have a Callair towplane,  it was built 
by Intermountain Air which at one time was a CIA front.



Mike




At 04:26 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_002D_01D2DEE1.A4F652A0"
Content-Language: en-au

Yeah,
The NSF have plenty of dash err cash!
Take for example the IceCube Neutrino 
Observatory located at the Amundsen-Scott 
South Pole Station, built over the years 2005 
– 2010, and estimated to have cost $229 
million. JJust getting the parts (including 
those for the -hot water - drilling rig), to 
the site kept their own private airline 
busy  for  years. God only knows what else 
this fleet does, or where it does it!


Gary
PS As an aside,  google “murder at the south 
pole” re the death of Rodney Marks. What is 
of major interest  is that although  New 
Zealand has legal jurisdiction here, the NSF 
was very easily able to gag the NZ 
investigator, and also spirit Marks’ body away: handy having you own fleet.


From: Aus-soaring [ 
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

LOL! I think you'll find that adding the 
Voodoo sciences is fairly recent so that the 
mediocre don't feel too left out. aka 
"political correctness". Shows the problems of 
letting an organisation like the NSF define 
itself. It appears to be a US Federal 
government body which doles out federal 
taxpayer funding to universities and a few 
other bodies. OF COURSE they'll be as 
inclusive as possible. Helps get more money by creating larger pressure groups.


I remember only a couple of years ago STEM 
generally was taken to mean Science, 
Technology, Engineering, Mathematics and 
social and political science didn't count.



I make a small exception for psychology in 
that there is a legitimate part of it that 
deals with human perception/reaction aka human 
factors research which is what science/science 
fiction Jerry Pournelle did at Boeing back in 
the 1950s. There was even a TV series back in 
the late 50s about that sort of thing, "The 
Man and the Challenge". It is on youtube.


Mike

At 02:02 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_001B_01D2DECD.7D28BF10"
Content-Language: en-au

The National Science Foundation (NSF) 
definition of STEM fields includes 
mathematics, natural sciences, engineering, 
computer and information sciences, and the 
social and behavioral sciences – psychology, 
ecoonomics, sociology, and political science.


From: Aus-soaring [ 
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 1:27 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Most aircraft designs are built in total 
numbers smaller than what a car manufacturer 
would put through the production line to debug the line.


It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job.

I'm guessing you've never actually done any 
engineering or manufactured anything. 
Academic, but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or maths?


Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. 
The vast majority of people in this place identify themselves.


Mike


At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost 
$300,000 or more? Most cars costing more than 
say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not 
just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not 
cost $50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow 
handle is designed to be held like 'this'… 
and an aircraft ccontrol column is designed 
too be held like 'that'… diffeerent 
ergonomics. One is dessigned to be gripped 
hard and the other should not be. If you 
don't get the difference, have a look at the 
grip shape on any low-cost computer joystick. 
It does not look anything like a wheelbarrow 
or bicycle handle. As Macca points out, you 
can use the handle from a ski stock or a 
Norwegian walking stick or whatever they 

Re: [Aus-soaring] anonymity

[Mark Newton]

On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Mike Borgelt  
wrote:
> 
> I'll stand behind what I write and the vast majority here use their real 
> names. It is plain rude and impolite not to do so here in a group which is of 
> very limited interest to the wider world and which deals with a very narrow 
> range of subject matter which  out of 10,000 Australians don't care 
> about. If you want "polite", make people stand behind what they write.

People can stand behind what they write without using their names.

What does a name give you that any other persistent label doesn’t?

> There is a BD-4 homebuilt aircraft group (recently resurrected) where I 
> haven't run across any anonymous posters.

Sure, but there’s also an RV forum where everyone makes up their own names. 
Potential for respectful engagement seems independent of whether a 
correspondent’s identifier matches what’s on their ASIC.


> There are other internet fora where anonymity is a good idea ( take a look at 
> the "robust" discussions at www.catallaxy  files.com  
> a politics/economics blog run by Judith Sloan, Sinclair Davidson and others)  
> but I can't think of any reason for that here.

It isn’t just what you think, though.

People can have reasons for obscuring their names that are meaningless to you 
but meaningful to them. Especially on publicly archived open internet groups.

What difference does it make to you if you’re ascribing an opinion to DMcD or 
Joe Bloggs from Katoomba? 

(And what value is there in dismissing someone as an anonymous troll when they 
post something that suggests using a handle from a ski stock because it's more 
fit for purpose than a wheelbarrow handle? The battles are so fierce because 
the stakes are so small…)


  - mark


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

[Justin Sinclair]

Just out of interest who is posting under a pseudonym

Justin Sinclair
17 Queen St
Scarborough Qld

0421061811

Sent from my iPad

On 6 Jun 2017, at 5:26 pm, Mike Borgelt 
> wrote:

Sounds much like "Air America" by Christopher Robbins.

At one time the CIA allegedly owned so many airlines and aircraft and had 
confused the issue so well, the boss couldn't find out exactly how many 
aircraft they owned.

If you have a Callair towplane,  it was built by Intermountain Air which at one 
time was a CIA front.


Mike




At 04:26 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:
Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_002D_01D2DEE1.A4F652A0"
Content-Language: en-au

Yeah,
The NSF have plenty of dash err cash!
Take for example the IceCube Neutrino Observatory located at the Amundsen-Scott 
South Pole Station, built over the years 2005 – 2010, and estimated to have 
cost $229 million. Just getting the parts (including those for the -hot water - 
drilling rig), to the site kept their own private airline busy  for  years. God 
only knows what else this fleet does, or where it does it!

Gary
PS As an aside,  google “murder at the south pole” re the death of Rodney 
Marks. What is of major interest  is that although  New Zealand has legal 
jurisdiction here, the NSF was very easily able to gag the NZ investigator, and 
also spirit Marks’ body away: handy having you own fleet.

From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf 
Of Mike Borgelt
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

LOL! I think you'll find that adding the Voodoo sciences is fairly recent so 
that the mediocre don't feel too left out. aka "political correctness". Shows 
the problems of letting an organisation like the NSF define itself. It appears 
to be a US Federal government body which doles out federal taxpayer funding to 
universities and a few other bodies. OF COURSE they'll be as inclusive as 
possible. Helps get more money by creating larger pressure groups.

I remember only a couple of years ago STEM generally was taken to mean Science, 
Technology, Engineering, Mathematics and social and political science didn't 
count.


I make a small exception for psychology in that there is a legitimate part of 
it that deals with human perception/reaction aka human factors research which 
is what science/science fiction Jerry Pournelle did at Boeing back in the 
1950s. There was even a TV series back in the late 50s about that sort of 
thing, "The Man and the Challenge". It is on youtube.

Mike

At 02:02 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_001B_01D2DECD.7D28BF10"
Content-Language: en-au

The National Science Foundation (NSF) definition of STEM fields includes 
mathematics, natural sciences, engineering, computer and information sciences, 
and the social and behavioral sciences – psychology, economics, sociology, and 
political science.

From: Aus-soaring [  
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 1:27 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers smaller than what a car 
manufacturer would put through the production line to debug the line.

It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job.

I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or manufactured 
anything. Academic, but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or maths?

Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The vast majority of people in 
this place identify themselves.

Mike


At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more? Most cars costing 
>>more than say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not just a cheap plastic 
>>moulding. It does not cost $50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow handle is 
>>designed to be held like 'this'… and an aircraft ccontrol column is designed 
>>to be held like 'that'… diffeerent ergonomics. One is designed to be gripped 
>>hard and the other should not be. If you don't get the difference, have a 
>>look at the grip shape on any low-cost computer joystick. It does not look 
>>anything like a wheelbarrow or bicycle handle. As Macca points out, you can 
>>use the handle from a ski stock or a Norwegian walking stick or whatever they 
>>are called. At least they're designed to be held like 'that'. D 
>>___ Aus-soaring mailing list 
>>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au 
>>http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring

Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation 
since 1978

Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

[Mike Borgelt]

Sounds much like "Air America" by Christopher Robbins.

At one time the CIA allegedly owned so many 
airlines and aircraft and had confused the issue 
so well, the boss couldn't find out exactly how many aircraft they owned.


If you have a Callair towplane,  it was built by 
Intermountain Air which at one time was a CIA front.



Mike




At 04:26 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_002D_01D2DEE1.A4F652A0"
Content-Language: en-au

Yeah,
The NSF have plenty of dash err cash!
Take for example the IceCube Neutrino 
Observatory located at the Amundsen-Scott South 
Pole Station, built over the years 2005 – 2010, 
and estimated to have cost $229 million. Just 
getting the parts (including those for the -hot 
water - drilling rig), to the site kept their 
own private airline busy  for  years. God only 
knows what else this fleet does, or where it does it!


Gary
PS As an aside,  google “murder at the south 
pole” re the death of Rodney Marks. What is of 
major interest  is that although  New Zealand 
has legal jurisdiction here, the NSF was very 
easily able to gag the NZ investigator, and also 
spirit Marks’ body away: handy having you own fleet.


From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Stem fields

LOL! I think you'll find that adding the Voodoo 
sciences is fairly recent so that the mediocre 
don't feel too left out. aka "political 
correctness". Shows the problems of letting an 
organisation like the NSF define itself. It 
appears to be a US Federal government body which 
doles out federal taxpayer funding to 
universities and a few other bodies. OF COURSE 
they'll be as inclusive as possible. Helps get 
more money by creating larger pressure groups.


I remember only a couple of years ago STEM 
generally was taken to mean Science, Technology, 
Engineering, Mathematics and social and political science didn't count.



I make a small exception for psychology in that 
there is a legitimate part of it that deals with 
human perception/reaction aka human factors 
research which is what science/science fiction 
Jerry Pournelle did at Boeing back in the 1950s. 
There was even a TV series back in the late 50s 
about that sort of thing, "The Man and the Challenge". It is on youtube.


Mike

At 02:02 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_001B_01D2DECD.7D28BF10"
Content-Language: en-au

The National Science Foundation (NSF) definition 
of STEM fields includes mathematics, natural 
sciences, engineering, computer and information 
sciences, and the social and behavioral sciences 
– psychology, economics, sociology, and political science.


From: Aus-soaring [ 
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 1:27 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers 
smaller than what a car manufacturer would put 
through the production line to debug the line.


It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job.

I'm guessing you've never actually done any 
engineering or manufactured anything. Academic, 
but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or maths?


Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The 
vast majority of people in this place identify themselves.


Mike


At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost 
$300,000 or more? Most cars costing more than 
say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not 
just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not cost 
$50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow handle 
is designed to be held like 'this'… and an 
aircraft ccontrol column is designed to be held 
like 'that'… diffeerent ergonomics. One is 
designed to be gripped hard and the other 
should not be. If you don't get the difference, 
have a look at the grip shape on any low-cost 
computer joystick. It does not look anything 
like a wheelbarrow or bicycle handle. As Macca 
points out, you can use the handle from a ski 
stock or a Norwegian walking stick or whatever 
they are called. At least they're designed to 
be held like 'that'. D 
___ 
Aus-soaring mailing list 
Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au 
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring 



Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of 
quality soaring instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia



Image removed by sender. AVG logo

Re: [Aus-soaring] anonymity

[Mike Borgelt]

Mark,

How about requiring anyone who posts here to identify themselves to the group?

I'll stand behind what I write and the vast majority here use their 
real names. It is plain rude and impolite not to do so here in a 
group which is of very limited interest to the wider world and which 
deals with a very narrow range of subject matter which  out of 10,000


Australians don't care about. If you want "polite", make people stand 
behind what they write.


There is a BD-4 homebuilt aircraft group (recently resurrected) where 
I haven't run across any anonymous posters.


There are other internet fora where anonymity is a good idea ( take a 
look at the "robust" discussions at www.catallaxy files.com  a 
politics/economics blog run by Judith Sloan, Sinclair Davidson and 
others)  but I can't think of any reason for that here.


Mike

At 03:42 PM 6/6/2017, you wrote:



On 06/06/2017, DMcD and Mike Borgelt wrote:

Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll.

And you?


Please don't. Just... don't.

  - mark

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Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring 
instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia  ___
Aus-soaring mailing list
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http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring