Re: [Aus-soaring] more light hearted WAS: MEMBERSHIP AND A WORLD REVIEW

[Mark Fisher]

Hi Niall,
Sorry if you were offended. All I personally said was I owned a glider with
a rego that raised a few eyebrows .
Then I said it was a nice glider to fly.which is very true.

I think if you truly want to be objective you should perhaps consider that
any sexual references that you may have taken from the discussion could
also extend to any member of the LGBTI community, which you have clearly
ignored.
It seems that your response sexually objectifies heterosexual women only,
which in itself shows how you personally stereotype women.

Also your language was less than optimum for a public forum.

Maybe we will both bump into Donald Trump?

Cheers
Mark

On Fri., 3 Feb. 2017 at 9:58 am, Niall Doherty <t...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> Mark Fisher, Erich Wittstock, Richard Frawley, Robert Izatt: perhaps you
> should keep your risque contributions for the locker room. You can share
> them with Donald Trump next time you bump into him there. They don't belong
> in a gliding forum.
>
> How many females have contributed to this present discussion? Fucking
> none, that's how many. Perhaps one of the reasons that it's difficult to
> attract and retain women in gliding is because of the number of old wankers
> sniggering while they share their lewd humour.
>
> On the actual subject at hand, I agree with everyone who thinks that the
> GFA administration is broken; compulsory club membership is stupid; and
> being beholden to some puff-chested CFI for ever is ridiculous. One CFI in
> NSW has seen fit to mandate two annual checks a year instead of one!
>
> Regards
> Niall Doherty
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From:
> steph...@internode.on.net "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
> Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> To:
>
> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> Cc:
>
> Sent:
> Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:30:36 +1030
> Subject:
> [Aus-soaring] more light hearted WAS: MEMBERSHIP AND A WORLD REVIEW
>
>
>
>
>
> I did a fair bit of flying in IKR Its an Astir CS77
>
> :-)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From:
> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
>- What does *ikr* mean? *I know, right.*
>
>
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport

[Mark Fisher]

You've got me there!

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Derek <drudd...@iinet.net.au> wrote:

> Dittolog ain’t gonna tow & retrieve the glider…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark Fisher
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:40 PM
>
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport
>
>
>
> Dittolog will fix that :)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm baffled as to how many people are often 'needed' to run an operation.
> Most clubs I've visited still have one if not TWO people required to sit on
> the ground and log the takeoffs and landings for the whole day.
>
> Trivially avoidable by either having pilots record their own takeoff and
> landing times, or even whizzbang automatic solutions like dittolog.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Derek <drudd...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Until envy raises its ugly head: I push and shove/ do the log/ tow the
> gliders all day & I don’t get paid!...
>
>
>
> The fact of the matter is that gliding (except self launchers) requires a
> team of people to operate, unlike powered flight. It would not be cost
> effective.
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Izatt
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2017 1:21 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport
>
>
>
> Right on the money LOL and nothing like getting paid to make you realise
> that your labour as an instructor  has real value and that time is in fact
> valuable to you and the client. It doesn’t have to be sheep stations.
> Compensate the instructors for their expenses - getting to the field,
> memberships, let alone their experience. You don’t have to do it for anyone
> else
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark Fisher
>
> Managing Director
> Swift Performance Equipment
> Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
>
> Wacol 4076
> Australia
> Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005 <(07)%203879%203005>
> Fax: +61 7 36076277
> www.spe.com.au
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport

[Mark Fisher]

Dittolog will fix that :)

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm baffled as to how many people are often 'needed' to run an operation.
> Most clubs I've visited still have one if not TWO people required to sit on
> the ground and log the takeoffs and landings for the whole day.
> Trivially avoidable by either having pilots record their own takeoff and
> landing times, or even whizzbang automatic solutions like dittolog.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Derek <drudd...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Until envy raises its ugly head: I push and shove/ do the log/ tow the
>> gliders all day & I don’t get paid!...
>>
>>
>>
>> The fact of the matter is that gliding (except self launchers) requires a
>> team of people to operate, unlike powered flight. It would not be cost
>> effective.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
>> Behalf Of *Robert Izatt
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2017 1:21 PM
>> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport
>>
>>
>>
>> Right on the money LOL and nothing like getting paid to make you realise
>> that your labour as an instructor  has real value and that time is in fact
>> valuable to you and the client. It doesn’t have to be sheep stations.
>> Compensate the instructors for their expenses - getting to the field,
>> memberships, let alone their experience. You don’t have to do it for anyone
>> else
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
___
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http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport

[Mark Fisher]

Yep. As sad as it might seem, things will have to change.
Of course club committees will cry foul and suggest that implementing this
will mean the demise of the club.

I think he GFA should look at supporting a flagship club or two to trial
this. By support I mean fund any loss if it doesn't work.

I would think a couple of clubs with different profiles might work as a
trial to learn about the efficacy of the idea.

E.G One club with > 100 members, and another with <30

We might actually learn something.


Or a club could even offer two training schemes.

1. Is the sit around all day and take what you can get (Free)
2. Is the fully commercial model

Explain the reality and timeframe to learn.  See what people opt for






On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Robert Izatt <thebunyipboo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Right on the money LOL and nothing like getting paid to make you realise
> that your labour as an instructor  has real value and that time is in fact
> valuable to you and the client. It doesn’t have to be sheep stations.
> Compensate the instructors for their expenses - getting to the field,
> memberships, let alone their experience. You don’t have to do it for anyone
> else
>
>
> On 31 Jan. 2017, at 11:38 am, Mark Fisher <m...@spe.com.au> wrote:
>
> If we made one small change, i.e. pay instructors, the flow on from that
> would self organise.
> There is nothing like a paying consumer to figure out what is value and
> what is not.
>
> Natural selection in play.
>
> Cheers
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Greg Wilson <g...@gregwilson.id.au>
> wrote:
>
>> I've had the same experience:- A few years ago I introduced a friend to
>> gliding. He enjoyed the flying but wasn't prepared to spend all day hanging
>> around for his turn in the glider. Instead he went to the private gliding
>> school that was operating at Byron Bay at the time. He much preferred to
>> pay more to book a lesson and turn up knowing he'd be in a glider a few
>> minutes of his arrival and leaving directly after the flight.
>>
>> Lake Keepit is a great solution to learning gliding but people need to
>> experience the joy of gliding and decide to invest their time and money and
>> travel to spend a few days there. How many other every day year-round
>> gliding schools are there in Australia?
>>
>> Clubs could offer options to students:
>>
>> 1. Pay the club rate for renting a 2 seater or motor glider. Turn up
>> early and help get the glider out and wait your turn to fly.
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2. Pay a premium rate for a booked appointment with a glider and
>> instructor ready.
>>
>> Providing both isn't going to be easy to implement in a club situation.
>> Club members still need to do the work of D/I ing and shifting gliders etc,
>> but it's not impossible and I'm fairly sure it's what people want.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Greg Wilson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:46:46 +1100 *Robert Izatt
>> <thebunyipboo...@gmail.com <thebunyipboo...@gmail.com>>* wrote 
>>
>> and
>> Classic example - my son is a RAAF Instructor and a couple of the young
>> guys in his squadron wanted to try gliding so he sent them to his old club.
>> They went out paid their money and sat all day and helped push and retrieve
>> gliders and finally got a short flight about 3 in the afternoon. They went
>> back individually the next weekend, same thing, and one missed out because
>> the weather came in late. They didn’t make a fuss about what they did for a
>> living or their actual skill levels - no one knew. They just couldn’t
>> invest that much time on a weekend. They didn’t go back. I have seen this
>> dozens of times
>>
>>
>> On 30 Jan. 2017, at 8:10 pm, James McDowall <james.mcdowal...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I first came into contact with gliding in the early 1960's when my father
>> took up gliding to satisfy an itch dating back to the late 1940's when he
>> helped build a glider that ultimately ended up with the fledgling ASC.
>> In those days, many people would spend their weekends (or perhaps do a
>> two week course) sitting on the side of the airfield in all sorts of
>> weather waiting for the chance to do a few circuits or if they were really
>> lucky a soaring flight. Time wasn't an issue and no one thought too much
>> about spending their Saturday nights in primitive accommodation.
>> Fifty plus years later society has changed and flying for most is
>> regarded in the same as taking a bus trip. The wonder of flying has been
>> lost 

Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport

[Mark Fisher]

;>
> >>> With the benefit of longevity and a curiosity to track things (yes, I
> am the dude who did the quantitative measuring of successful and defunct
> clubs for the whole of Australia in the 1970s) I advise -
> >>>
> >>> - In 1949 the GFA was formed to be the barrier between glider pilots
> and ‘the Department’
> >>> - where glider pilots said ‘WE are the people who know how gliders
> work, they are not power planes, so we set rules appropriate to us
> >>> - helped by the proposition (a la ‘The Castle’) that the Australian
> Constitution does not regulate aviation (which didn’t exist when it was
> first written), hence aviation is regulated federally only by the consensus
> of the aviation community
> >>>
> >>> - That original bottom up driven model of regulation of the sport by
> the sport, in the best examples of participatory democracy, lasted until
> 1981
> >>> - By then the sport had grown to 100 clubs, about 5000 pilots, and
> enthusiasm and volunteer inputs to ‘our sport’ which got it there and was
> propelling it even higher
> >>> - So GFA has never been ‘the sport’, it has always been the external
> peripheral administrative element that we ‘needed to have’, and was thus
> always kept as small as possible.
> >>>
> >>> - So in 1981 the world changed, yes Richard, you are right. The system
> was re-written and has been re-written several more times since, by
> incumbents of their day who saw a great sport, and thought re-imagining it
> in their own image would both serve the sport and themselves well.
> >>>
> >>> - So gliding the sport declined to 2000 pilots in 50 or so clubs, with
> the unstated direction being the demise of the small clubs (less than 20
> members), leaving commercial servicing, schools and big clubs.
> >>>
> >>> We are indeed on track in that direction.
> >>>
> >>> The barriers to achieving the goals of that objective (a more
> ‘professional' sport) is that it is being pressed onto the old model of
> volunteer cadre to achieve.
> >>> And people not being stupid, say things (as per the previous thread) ‘
> ‘why would I work at making my kind of gliding fail or be inaccessible?’,
> and stuff like that.
> >>>
> >>> Gliding is not a franchise that GFA owns. So people choose to bale out
> when the onerous impositions exceed the benefit to them, assessed against
> their definition of ‘the sport’. With many then going to other sport
> aviation; a barrier to hoped-for flow the other way. (Their tales of woe
> unimpress aviators from other sport)
> >>>
> >>> GFA does not control gliding, despite continuous threats and
> intimidation issued by it/them. Glider pilots agree to follow rules that
> make sense because these keep us alive. GFA is overlaying this with rules
> addressing  ‘fear of litigation’ against themselves, to be shifted onto the
> volunteers.
> >>>
> >>> The current conversation, either in its form today or some future
> time, will result in the demise of the GFA. Glider pilots will find their
> own way to fly the kind of sport each group within the sport wants.
> >>> GFA doesn’t have the budget to follow through the promotion and
> support to create the sport in their image.
> >>> All the attempts so far (since 1981 to date) have thoroughly failed as
> noted above, and will continue to fail.
> >>>
> >>> Pilots and clubs (particularly the small ones) are right now debating
> internally what sort of sport they want. Paying lip service to ‘the
> authority’ and getting on with flying safely is a reality since 1924 (the
> oldest glider I have in my 2 dozen collection).
> >>>
> >>> Some pilots and clubs will decide to be ‘mucking about in boats’ style
> volunteering, and will attract like minded people.
> >>> Some pilots and clubs will go ‘hire & fly’ with commercial support;
> and ditto.
> >>> And all the other variants between.
> >>> And really few pilots will aspire to the GFA view of itself.
> >>>
> >>> Welcome to the real world folks.
> >>>
> >>> Emilis
> >>> (turn rant mode off)
> >>> ___
> >>> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >> ___
> >> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >
> > ___
> > Aus-soaring mailing list
> > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport

[Mark Fisher]

hen the sport had grown to 100 clubs, about 5000 pilots, and
>> enthusiasm and volunteer inputs to ‘our sport’ which got it there and was
>> propelling it even higher
>> >>> - So GFA has never been ‘the sport’, it has always been the external
>> peripheral administrative element that we ‘needed to have’, and was thus
>> always kept as small as possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> - So in 1981 the world changed, yes Richard, you are right. The
>> system was re-written and has been re-written several more times since, by
>> incumbents of their day who saw a great sport, and thought re-imagining it
>> in their own image would both serve the sport and themselves well.
>> >>>
>> >>> - So gliding the sport declined to 2000 pilots in 50 or so clubs,
>> with the unstated direction being the demise of the small clubs (less than
>> 20 members), leaving commercial servicing, schools and big clubs.
>> >>>
>> >>> We are indeed on track in that direction.
>> >>>
>> >>> The barriers to achieving the goals of that objective (a more
>> ‘professional' sport) is that it is being pressed onto the old model of
>> volunteer cadre to achieve.
>> >>> And people not being stupid, say things (as per the previous thread)
>> ‘ ‘why would I work at making my kind of gliding fail or be inaccessible?’,
>> and stuff like that.
>> >>>
>> >>> Gliding is not a franchise that GFA owns. So people choose to bale
>> out when the onerous impositions exceed the benefit to them, assessed
>> against their definition of ‘the sport’. With many then going to other
>> sport aviation; a barrier to hoped-for flow the other way. (Their tales of
>> woe unimpress aviators from other sport)
>> >>>
>> >>> GFA does not control gliding, despite continuous threats and
>> intimidation issued by it/them. Glider pilots agree to follow rules that
>> make sense because these keep us alive. GFA is overlaying this with rules
>> addressing  ‘fear of litigation’ against themselves, to be shifted onto the
>> volunteers.
>> >>>
>> >>> The current conversation, either in its form today or some future
>> time, will result in the demise of the GFA. Glider pilots will find their
>> own way to fly the kind of sport each group within the sport wants.
>> >>> GFA doesn’t have the budget to follow through the promotion and
>> support to create the sport in their image.
>> >>> All the attempts so far (since 1981 to date) have thoroughly failed
>> as noted above, and will continue to fail.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pilots and clubs (particularly the small ones) are right now debating
>> internally what sort of sport they want. Paying lip service to ‘the
>> authority’ and getting on with flying safely is a reality since 1924 (the
>> oldest glider I have in my 2 dozen collection).
>> >>>
>> >>> Some pilots and clubs will decide to be ‘mucking about in boats’
>> style volunteering, and will attract like minded people.
>> >>> Some pilots and clubs will go ‘hire & fly’ with commercial support;
>> and ditto.
>> >>> And all the other variants between.
>> >>> And really few pilots will aspire to the GFA view of itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> Welcome to the real world folks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Emilis
>> >>> (turn rant mode off)
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> >>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>> >> ___
>> >> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> >> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Aus-soaring mailing list
>> > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
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Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding the sport

[Mark Fisher]

> >>> Gliding is not a franchise that GFA owns. So people choose to bale out
> when the onerous impositions exceed the benefit to them, assessed against
> their definition of ‘the sport’. With many then going to other sport
> aviation; a barrier to hoped-for flow the other way. (Their tales of woe
> unimpress aviators from other sport)
> >>>
> >>> GFA does not control gliding, despite continuous threats and
> intimidation issued by it/them. Glider pilots agree to follow rules that
> make sense because these keep us alive. GFA is overlaying this with rules
> addressing  ‘fear of litigation’ against themselves, to be shifted onto the
> volunteers.
> >>>
> >>> The current conversation, either in its form today or some future
> time, will result in the demise of the GFA. Glider pilots will find their
> own way to fly the kind of sport each group within the sport wants.
> >>> GFA doesn’t have the budget to follow through the promotion and
> support to create the sport in their image.
> >>> All the attempts so far (since 1981 to date) have thoroughly failed as
> noted above, and will continue to fail.
> >>>
> >>> Pilots and clubs (particularly the small ones) are right now debating
> internally what sort of sport they want. Paying lip service to ‘the
> authority’ and getting on with flying safely is a reality since 1924 (the
> oldest glider I have in my 2 dozen collection).
> >>>
> >>> Some pilots and clubs will decide to be ‘mucking about in boats’ style
> volunteering, and will attract like minded people.
> >>> Some pilots and clubs will go ‘hire & fly’ with commercial support;
> and ditto.
> >>> And all the other variants between.
> >>> And really few pilots will aspire to the GFA view of itself.
> >>>
> >>> Welcome to the real world folks.
> >>>
> >>> Emilis
> >>> (turn rant mode off)
> >>> ___
> >>> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >> ___
> >> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >
> > ___
> > Aus-soaring mailing list
> > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Negative Advertising and Censorship?

[Mark Fisher]

>
> Just my thoughts.
>
>
>
> Ulrich
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> <aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>] On Behalf Of Ulrich Stauss
> Sent: Friday, 20 January 2017 13:36
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Worlds coverage
>
>
>
> Does anyone know why the live streaming comes online at the end and not
> already for the Opening Ceremony?
>
> Also, what were the problems initially? The organisers seem to think that
> it was "Due to technical issues, Australia's ancient Internet system"
> (which I think is not good form to post on a public and official web forum)
> and offered another link.
>
> Both streams now seem to work well though at least for me:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLmdBix3H_E
>
> http://player.5stream.com/16094
>
>
>
> Ulrich
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> <aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>] On Behalf Of Casey Jay Lewis
>
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2017 13:06
>
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>
> <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Worlds coverage
>
>
>
> Another John Styles rant I suspect.
>
>
>
> Carries a lot of anger that one.
>
>
>
> CJ
>
>
>
> iPhone Transmission
>
>
>
> > On 18 Jan 2017, at 10:33, Richard Hatch <rhatch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Can anyone enlighten me to the comments posted from the GFA and the
>
> > WGC in
>
> relation to the sponsors yesterday. Seemed pretty weird and childish. They
> have been deleted now I see.
>
> >
>
> > Ritch
>
> > ___
>
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>
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>
> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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-- 
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Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm odd error message help requested

[Mark Fisher]

That's got to be a good thing!

On Sat., 24 Dec. 2016 at 9:05 pm, Richard Frawley <rjfraw...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> yes mark, in this case your wrong
>
> I have done the hardware check and it is the UART (or some of the
> signalling path) that is failing
>
> Its nothing to do with the firmware
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 9:33 pm, Mark Fisher <m...@spe.com.au> wrote:
>
> My 10cents worth is that it has nothing to do with the UART. I hope I'm
> wrong, but the Flarm status leds know nothing about what is happening at
> the UART ( serial interface) .
> Richard is correct about using a serial comms monitor. It will tell you
> heaps.
>
> The OZ Flarm is a very old device , and I have always been concerned about
> long term viability with mandatory Flarm updates.
> The OZ Flarm and miniOZ use quite a dated 8 bit microcontroller that
> somehow has to keep up with the enhancement of the new 32 bit (I think)
> Power Flarms.
>
> Maybe I'm totally wrong on this. I hope so.
> Good luck.
>
> Mark
>
> On Sat., 24 Dec. 2016 at 7:15 pm, Peter Champness <plchampn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Many thanks Richard for your generosity.
>
> Take you pick from list above.
>
> Happy Christmas.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Richard Frawley <rjfraw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> now you have experience in using google, well done
>
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 7:08 PM, Peter Champness <plchampn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Replies vary from condescending to supercilious to ridiculous.  None the
> less I am a bit wiser.
>
> Universal Asynchonous Receiver Transmitter for those who were afraid to
> ask.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Erich Wittstock <deepb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Was just a spelling mistake.
> He mean to write "thou art"
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Richard Frawley <rjfraw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> google it
>
>
>
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 6:43 pm, Mike Borgelt <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Google is your friend.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> At 05:38 PM 12/24/2016, you wrote:
>
>
> What is a UART?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments*
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> *design & manufacture of quality soaringinstrumentation since 1978*
>
>
>
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
>
> tel:   07 4635
>
> 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635
>
> 5784
>
>
> mob: 042835
>
> 5784
>
> :
>
> int+61-42835 5784
>
>
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm odd error message help requested

[Mark Fisher]

My 10cents worth is that it has nothing to do with the UART. I hope I'm
wrong, but the Flarm status leds know nothing about what is happening at
the UART ( serial interface) .
Richard is correct about using a serial comms monitor. It will tell you
heaps.

The OZ Flarm is a very old device , and I have always been concerned about
long term viability with mandatory Flarm updates.
The OZ Flarm and miniOZ use quite a dated 8 bit microcontroller that
somehow has to keep up with the enhancement of the new 32 bit (I think)
Power Flarms.

Maybe I'm totally wrong on this. I hope so.
Good luck.

Mark

On Sat., 24 Dec. 2016 at 7:15 pm, Peter Champness 
wrote:

> Many thanks Richard for your generosity.
>
> Take you pick from list above.
>
> Happy Christmas.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Richard Frawley 
> wrote:
>
> now you have experience in using google, well done
>
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 7:08 PM, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Replies vary from condescending to supercilious to ridiculous.  None the
> less I am a bit wiser.
>
> Universal Asynchonous Receiver Transmitter for those who were afraid to
> ask.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Erich Wittstock 
> wrote:
>
> Was just a spelling mistake.
> He mean to write "thou art"
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Richard Frawley 
> wrote:
>
> google it
>
>
>
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 6:43 pm, Mike Borgelt 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Google is your friend.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> At 05:38 PM 12/24/2016, you wrote:
>
>
> What is a UART?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments*
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> *design & manufacture of quality soaringinstrumentation since 1978*
>
>
>
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
>
> tel:   07 4635
>
> 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635
>
> 5784
>
>
> mob: 042835
>
> 5784
>
> :
>
> int+61-42835 5784
>
>
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm antenna connector

[Mark Fisher]

Dear WPP,

Your European Flarm Antenna is not tuned to the Frequencies Flarm use in
Australia.

What you need is a new Flarm Antenna.

Your helpful ex-Flarm man

Mark


On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Adam Woolley <agwool...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I've just imported a new glider from EUR, it sports a flarm antenna with
> the wrong connection for my Australian PowerFlarm.
>
> I don't want to buy a new antenna & I don't want to use an adaptor to
> change the sex of the lead.
>
> Does anyone know where to buy a flarm connector to solder onto the end of
> my current lead, or have a solution for me?
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> WPP
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-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] Airpath compass

[Mark Fisher]

So now I know what a 'Carrington Event' is. Interesting.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Maybe he doesn't want to waste more money than absolutely necessary on an
> ancient requirement that should have been abolished more than ten years ago?
> It isn't as if it is going to get actually used or be useful.
>
> How many people still carry  a paper map? Without one the compass is
> pointless in the event of total electrics failure, which in itself is
> highly unlikely given most GPS units/tablets have internal batteries and a
> smartphone makes fine backup given you are probably carrying one anyway.
>
> I have 4, independent, battery backed nav systems in the BD-4.
>
> If the GPS system goes down, getting lost is the least of your problems. I
> can think of only two scenarios - hostile action (probably nuclear war) or
> a Carrington event.  In any case over the next few years we will be talking
> around 100 GNSS satellites from several independent systems. GPS/Glonass
> receivers are commonly available and GPS/Glonass/Galileo/Beidou/QZSS are
> increasingly available.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 03:13 PM 8/17/2016, you wrote:
>
> Hi Ron
>
> Why would you want a second hand one? a new one (copy) is only about
> $200.00
>
> Chris Runeckles
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Ron Sanders <resand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody got an old one of these laying around?
> Ron Sanders
>
> --
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> *Borgelt Instruments* -
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> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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>


-- 
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Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Schneider ES-59 Arrow

[Mark Fisher]

What happened to the One that was owned by a Lismore guy, and flew out of
the old Northern Rivers Gliding club decades ago.
I saw it in the 90's in Roly Kennedys hangar behind Alstonville after the
owner died
I'm pretty sure Nigel Virtue had something to do with selling it for the
family after the owner died.( I think)
Pretty sure it wasn't a one piece wing.



On Sunday, 7 August 2016, Ian Mc Phee <mrsoar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Think there is one in Dululu club  in central Queensland & believe it
> lacks paperwork. It is about a 20 year hangar queen there so think they
> would like to see it go to a new home.  John Kerr may know.
>
> Ian McPhee
> 0428847642
> Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481
> On 6 Aug 2016 7:37 am, "Christopher McDonnell" <wommamuku...@bigpond.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wommamuku...@bigpond.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Thanks. Not idle curiosity.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> *From:* Gary Stevenson
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gstev...@bigpond.com');>
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 05, 2016 10:42 PM
>> *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au');>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Schneider ES-59 Arrow
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> PK has a two piece wing. Other than that, I don’t know, and I don’t
>> really care. Maybe there are 6 of them? Why do you want the information
>> anyway? Suggest that you give Roy a call  if your query is more than
>> just idle curiosity.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au');>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Christopher McDonnell
>> *Sent:* Friday, 5 August 2016 9:50 PM
>> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Schneider ES-59 Arrow
>>
>>
>>
>> That glider is in Victoria Gary. Are you sure? My info is it is a Qld
>> glider GNK. Are there 2 then?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gary Stevenson
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gstev...@bigpond.com');>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 05, 2016 9:33 PM
>>
>> *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au');>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Schneider ES-59 Arrow
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> VH-GPK. Owner details on the CASA site are current.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au');>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Christopher McDonnell
>> *Sent:* Friday, 5 August 2016 7:28 PM
>> *To:* aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au');>
>> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Schneider ES-59 Arrow
>>
>>
>>
>> There are 6 of the above registered.
>>
>> Does anybody know which one has the two piece wing.
>>
>> Approval documentation for the modification would be a bonus but I will
>> not hold my breath.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>> --
>>
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>>

-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Winter Technical Reading

[Mark Fisher]

Yep. I've seen that one too. We must stop lurking in the same places:)
20 years of flying hangglider a has me hooked on the idea of no vertical
tail. An entirely different manoeuvring system, I know, but how cool is
something that looks like a horten wing?

On Tuesday, 12 July 2016, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com> wrote:

> They're building a new one as well actually -
> https://akaflieg-karlsruhe.de/project/ak-x/
> I don't think it uses the proverse yaw like the NASA prandtl glider
> though...
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark Fisher <m...@spe.com.au
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','m...@spe.com.au');>> wrote:
>
>> Yeah. I knew about the SB13, but those winglets indicate (I think) that
>> the bell distribution isn't used here??
>> M
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 12 July 2016, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','yellowplant...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> About -18 years - http://www.akaflieg-braunschweig.de/prototypen/sb13/
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Mark Fisher <m...@spe.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A great read. How long till we are gliding in Flying wings?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, 11 July 2016, Anthony Smith <anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For those that read the article on NASA’s Prandtl-D flying wing model
>>>>> in the July-August edition of ‘Gliding International’, the NASA technical
>>>>> paper on the wing span loading is at:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160003578.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The concept of proverse yaw (ie the opposite of adverse yaw) from the
>>>>> ailerons is fascinating.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Fisher
>>>> Managing Director
>>>> Swift Performance Equipment
>>>> Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
>>>> Wacol 4076
>>>> Australia
>>>> Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
>>>> Fax: +61 7 36076277
>>>> www.spe.com.au
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Fisher
>> Managing Director
>> Swift Performance Equipment
>> Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
>> Wacol 4076
>> Australia
>> Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
>> Fax: +61 7 36076277
>> www.spe.com.au
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>

-- 
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Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Winter Technical Reading

[Mark Fisher]

Yeah. I knew about the SB13, but those winglets indicate (I think) that the
bell distribution isn't used here??
M

On Tuesday, 12 July 2016, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com> wrote:

> About -18 years - http://www.akaflieg-braunschweig.de/prototypen/sb13/
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Mark Fisher <m...@spe.com.au
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','m...@spe.com.au');>> wrote:
>
>> A great read. How long till we are gliding in Flying wings?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 11 July 2016, Anthony Smith <anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those that read the article on NASA’s Prandtl-D flying wing model in
>>> the July-August edition of ‘Gliding International’, the NASA technical
>>> paper on the wing span loading is at:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160003578.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The concept of proverse yaw (ie the opposite of adverse yaw) from the
>>> ailerons is fascinating.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Fisher
>> Managing Director
>> Swift Performance Equipment
>> Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
>> Wacol 4076
>> Australia
>> Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
>> Fax: +61 7 36076277
>> www.spe.com.au
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au');>
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>>
>

-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Winter Technical Reading

[Mark Fisher]

A great read. How long till we are gliding in Flying wings?

On Monday, 11 July 2016, Anthony Smith <anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net>
wrote:

> Hi All
>
>
>
> For those that read the article on NASA’s Prandtl-D flying wing model in
> the July-August edition of ‘Gliding International’, the NASA technical
> paper on the wing span loading is at:
>
>
>
> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160003578.pdf
>
>
>
> The concept of proverse yaw (ie the opposite of adverse yaw) from the
> ailerons is fascinating.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] spinning

[Mark Fisher]

Mike
They are easy to find . Big white airplanes . No engines. Sometimes found
in long funny looking trailers
Mark

On Monday, 9 May 2016, Mike Borgelt <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> At 08:57 PM 5/9/2016, you wrote:
>
> The Aviation Safety Network website lists 77 occurences with Puchaczs with
> the first spinning fatality on July 01 1982 in Poland, the latest March 17
> 2016 in Japan. In between there are numerous spinning accidents.
>
>
> Beats me how you found that on the website.
>
> Do you have a link. I can't even find "gliders".
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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[Aus-soaring] Windward Performance

[Mark Fisher]

Anyone know whats happened to the makers of the sparrowhawk and duckhawk.
Have they gone the way of every US glider manufacturer?
Their website looks.well it doesn't really.


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Update from Flarm on Unsolicited Email Circulation

[Mark Fisher]

You are making far too much profit out of miniOZ Richard☺

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Richard Frawley <rjfraw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> peanuts
>
> On 7 Mar 2016, at 3:20 PM, Bob Dircks <dircks@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Just out of interest what would it cost to develop our own farm system. ?
>
> Are you thinking wool, beef or cropping ?
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Optusnet <jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> Just out of interest what would it cost to develop our own farm system. ?
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 7 Mar 2016, at 2:12 PM, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> FLARM's idea of licensing is for you to produce identical hardware to run
>> their proprietary software on.[1] There is no standard, open or closed, to
>> license and implement. This really doesn't have any bearing to the ISO
>> standards writing process, except in how dissimilar it is.
>>
>> As for the encryption, here's the IGC's views on the matter[2]
>> "it is our opinion that the justifications for encryption cited by FLARM
>> are weak, and that the actual motivations for encrypting the messages fall
>> largely outside the technical realm."
>>
>> I think FLARM has done great things for gliding. I am proud to own a
>> PowerFLARM, but they've overstepped the mark with encryption.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://flarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/FLARM-System-Design-and-Compatibility.pdf
>> [2]http://www.fai.org/downloads/igc/IGC_2016_Plenary_AX6_2_4
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Justin Couch <jus...@vlc.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/03/2016 1:42 PM, Mark Newton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Protecting the text of a standard under copyright and making it
>>>> purchasable, is not the same thing as making the standard unimplementable
>>>> without paying license fees, and you know it.
>>>>
>>>> Reputable standards bodies insist on open royalty free patent licensing
>>>> these days. The ones that don’t are slowly marginalizing themselves.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Incorrect. I've been involved in the ISO standards writing process for
>>> just over 20 years now - including part of the MPEG 4 and 7 standards, so I
>>> know it inside out. Reputable standards bodies like ISO have individual IP
>>> policy for every specification or group. It is not blanket across the
>>> organisation. In the case of MPEG, there is a large patent body pool called
>>> MPEG-LA. You cannot implement an open standard without paying license fees
>>> for the patents behind. MPEG is very far from being an isolated incident at
>>> ISO. There are other completely open standards such as SEDRIS or X3D that
>>> require contributors to license any contributed patents for zero cost to
>>> all implementors. There's, of course, others in between.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can write an MPEG implementation which interoperates with everyone
>>>> else’s MPEG streams and distribute it in competition with other MPEG
>>>> implementations, by following the text of the standard.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No you can't. You can try, but they will come after you, particularly if
>>> you write an encoder. That's why alternates like Ogg guys started out - to
>>> completely avoid the patents.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
>>> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
>>> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
>>> G+   WetMorgoth
>>> ---
>>> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
>>>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>>>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>>>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
>>>  frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
>>> ---
>>> ___
>>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring maili

Re: [Aus-soaring] Update from Flarm on Unsolicited Email Circulation

[Mark Fisher]

That's a joke .no?

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Optusnet <jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> Just out of interest what would it cost to develop our own farm system. ?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 7 Mar 2016, at 2:12 PM, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> FLARM's idea of licensing is for you to produce identical hardware to run
> their proprietary software on.[1] There is no standard, open or closed, to
> license and implement. This really doesn't have any bearing to the ISO
> standards writing process, except in how dissimilar it is.
>
> As for the encryption, here's the IGC's views on the matter[2]
> "it is our opinion that the justifications for encryption cited by FLARM
> are weak, and that the actual motivations for encrypting the messages fall
> largely outside the technical realm."
>
> I think FLARM has done great things for gliding. I am proud to own a
> PowerFLARM, but they've overstepped the mark with encryption.
>
> [1]
> http://flarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/FLARM-System-Design-and-Compatibility.pdf
> [2]http://www.fai.org/downloads/igc/IGC_2016_Plenary_AX6_2_4
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Justin Couch <jus...@vlc.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 7/03/2016 1:42 PM, Mark Newton wrote:
>>
>>> Protecting the text of a standard under copyright and making it
>>> purchasable, is not the same thing as making the standard unimplementable
>>> without paying license fees, and you know it.
>>>
>>> Reputable standards bodies insist on open royalty free patent licensing
>>> these days. The ones that don’t are slowly marginalizing themselves.
>>>
>>
>> Incorrect. I've been involved in the ISO standards writing process for
>> just over 20 years now - including part of the MPEG 4 and 7 standards, so I
>> know it inside out. Reputable standards bodies like ISO have individual IP
>> policy for every specification or group. It is not blanket across the
>> organisation. In the case of MPEG, there is a large patent body pool called
>> MPEG-LA. You cannot implement an open standard without paying license fees
>> for the patents behind. MPEG is very far from being an isolated incident at
>> ISO. There are other completely open standards such as SEDRIS or X3D that
>> require contributors to license any contributed patents for zero cost to
>> all implementors. There's, of course, others in between.
>>
>>
>> I can write an MPEG implementation which interoperates with everyone
>>> else’s MPEG streams and distribute it in competition with other MPEG
>>> implementations, by following the text of the standard.
>>>
>>
>> No you can't. You can try, but they will come after you, particularly if
>> you write an encoder. That's why alternates like Ogg guys started out - to
>> completely avoid the patents.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
>> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
>> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
>> G+   WetMorgoth
>> ---
>> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
>>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
>>  frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
>> ---
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Proximity

[Mark Fisher]

REX spoke to me some 6 years ago about putting Flarms in their Saabs.
Another case of paralysis by analysis.



On Tuesday, 1 March 2016, Christopher McDonnell <wommamuku...@bigpond.com>
wrote:

>
> https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/rex-saab-340-in-near-miss-with-glider-422487/
>


-- 
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
Wacol 4076
Australia
Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
Fax: +61 7 36076277
www.spe.com.au
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