Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
I saw it tonight. With my emergency management background I could see the continuous theme on human factors which culminate at the end. Told in a slightly subdued style to suit the general audience it is intended for. Length felt slightly short for someone in my mindset. On 13 Sep 2016, at 5:37 pm, Mike Borgelt wrote: > >> >>Well you may point out to your son the fact that Sully achieved the only >> >>successful ditching of a commercial airliner in the history of aviation >> >>where not one person was killed and only 5 were injured. >> >> Yes, but as he said, isn't that what they are paid for? But by the >> above accounts, that's not what the film is about. > > I saw the film on Sunday morning with Carol, a couple who are friends, their > 15 year old son and their son in law. > All thought it was a good movie. > > In the movie, the NTSB conflict wasn't actually emphasised too much and when > faced with the real evidence they readily backed down instead of ignoring it. > > My only criticism of the movie is that the timeline is a little disjointed. I > think it could have been told linearly. But that would be second guessing Mr > Eastwood and I'm not feeling that lucky. > > In the actual NTSB report note the slightly dissenting opinion on a couple of > points of the BEA (French equivalent of NTSB). One might almost think they > were trying to protect Airbus.:-) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
At 04:30 PM 9/13/2016, you wrote: >>In Apollo 13 the astronauts were just unfortunate victims. On their own they'd have died. The heroes were the back room guys like "Mad Don" Arabian and his mates who figured out how to power down the spacecraft so the batteries would last. The Apollo cosmonauts also made mistakes and failed to follow instructions from the ground. That's what made the story into a drama. The film was just silly. Really? First I've heard of that. I thought the film was pretty good. BTW they were "astronauts" not "cosmonauts". If you want to see something about cosmonauts I recommend "Gagarin", a Russian movie made in 2013. Watched the DVD the other night.At one point Sergei Korolev says to his team " you know, there are some who say if the spacecraft lands in enemy territory we should blow it up to prevent the enemy examining it. I'm with those who want to blow it up. I'd be ashamed of what the enemy found". >>Well you may point out to your son the fact that Sully achieved the only successful ditching of a commercial airliner in the history of aviation where not one person was killed and only 5 were injured. Yes, but as he said, isn't that what they are paid for? But by the above accounts, that's not what the film is about. I saw the film on Sunday morning with Carol, a couple who are friends, their 15 year old son and their son in law. All thought it was a good movie. In the movie, the NTSB conflict wasn't actually emphasised too much and when faced with the real evidence they readily backed down instead of ignoring it. My only criticism of the movie is that the timeline is a little disjointed. I think it could have been told linearly. But that would be second guessing Mr Eastwood and I'm not feeling that lucky. In the actual NTSB report note the slightly dissenting opinion on a couple of points of the BEA (French equivalent of NTSB). One might almost think they were trying to protect Airbus.:-) Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
>>In Apollo 13 the astronauts were just unfortunate victims. On their own >>they'd have died. The heroes were the back room guys like "Mad Don" Arabian >>and his mates who figured out how to power down the spacecraft so the >>batteries would last. The Apollo cosmonauts also made mistakes and failed to follow instructions from the ground. That's what made the story into a drama. The film was just silly. >>Well you may point out to your son the fact that Sully achieved the only >>successful ditching of a commercial airliner in the history of aviation where >>not one person was killed and only 5 were injured. Yes, but as he said, isn't that what they are paid for? But by the above accounts, that's not what the film is about. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
No it isn't a valid point. In a single engined aircraft your thinking is oriented to "where will I go if the engine stops now?" In a twin it is assumed that it is highly unlikely that both will stop at once so the thinking is "what do I do if one engine stops". Finding somewhere to land isn't at the top of the list until you realise that you've lost two. At which point SOP seemed to be get at least one re-lit. When this doesn't look good, "find somewhere to land", which I doubt used to be a sim scenario. I'm sure our airline pilot readers will have further information on this.. Which is about what that crew did and when that became necessary, they turned to do so. Landing in a river with no thrust isn't a normal option. It is a REALLY bad idea but it is a lot better than the REALLY, REALLY bad idea of trying for an airport and falling short in a built up area. The crew made decisions everyone lived with, with a little luck and amazingly quick help from the river ferries. Hopefully the guys in Sydney Harbour would do as well. I reckon everyone did as well as could be expected and that was all that was required. NTSB report here: http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1003.pdf. Read it all but here are some conclusions. Every aviation accident can have lessons for all of aviation, something that has been forgotten in our 3rd world, banana republic aviation regulatory system in Australia : 13. If a checklist that addressed a dual-engine failure occurring at a low altitude had been available to the flight crewmembers, they would have been more likely to have completed that checklist. 14. Despite being unable to complete the Engine Dual Failure checklist, the captain started the auxiliary power unit, which improved the outcome of the ditching by ensuring that a primary source of electrical power was available to the airplane and that the airplane remained in normal law and maintained the flight envelope protections, one of which protects against a stall. 15. The captains decision to ditch on the Hudson River rather than attempting to land at an airport provided the highest probability that the accident would be survivable. 16. The captains difficulty maintaining his intended airspeed during the final approach resulted in high angles-of-attack, which contributed to the difficulties in flaring the airplane, the high descent rate at touchdown, and the fuselage damage. 17. The captains difficulty maintaining his intended airspeed during the final approach resulted, in part, from high workload, stress, and task saturation. 18. The captains decision to use flaps 2 for the ditching, based on his experience and perception of the situation, was reasonable and consistent with the limited civilian industry and military guidance that was available regarding forced landings of large aircraft without power. 19. The professionalism of the flight crewmembers and their excellent crew resource management during the accident sequence contributed to their ability to maintain control of the airplane, configure it to the extent possible under the circumstances, and fly an approach that increased the survivability of the impact. 20. Comprehensive guidelines on the best means to design and develop emergency and abnormal checklists would promote operational standardization and increase the likelihood of a successful outcome to such events In Apollo 13 the astronauts were just unfortunate victims. On their own they'd have died. The heroes were the back room guys like "Mad Don" Arabian and his mates who figured out how to power down the spacecraft so the batteries would last. The story is told here in this little ballad to the tune of "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbL3oNEDvJ0. Maybe we can stop the harping on pilot's gliding experience in scenarios like this? I don't think Sully's glider experience even rated a mention in the flight crew quals part and he himself is alleged to have said it had no bearing on this event. Also the German wings suicide/murder pilot was a glider pilot (and not a great pilot by accounts I've read). The bloke flying the Air France A330 which ended up with a perfectly flyable aircraft in the water had a French glider licence too. Didn't seem to help situational awareness and a lack of aircraft systems knowledge was also revealed there. Mike At 01:10 PM 9/13/2016, you wrote: It's also about how a powerful government authority connived with the aircraft manufacturer to blame the pilots for the loss of the aircraft. Fortunately, Sully caught them out and revealed their deception. Michael -Original Message- From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 12:30 PM To
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
Well you may point out to your son the fact that Sully achieved the only successful ditching of a commercial airliner in the history of aviation where not one person was killed and only 5 were injured. ROSS _ -Original Message- From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 12:30 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully" >>Saw the film "Sully" where he landed a A320 on the Hudson River in New York. I was quite interested in seeing this film but my son said "Why make a film about someone who just followed standard operational procedures " Is this a valid point? It's not exactly Apollo 13. The real story, not the film version. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
Just don't forget it's a drama not a documentary. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/sep/12/sully-clint-eastwood-hudson-river-plane-crash-ntsb http://qz.com/778011/sully-ntsb-investigators-are-not-happy-about-being-made-the-villains-in-clint-eastwoods-film-starring-tom-hanks-as-chesley-sully-sullenberger/ "Ultimately, Sully looks to be a movie about bureaucracy, with one heroic action sequence shown at the beginning to set the table. Unless your audience is entirely made up of aviation buffs, there’s no way to make a routine government inquiry into a non-lethal accident entertaining without somehow ratcheting up the tension." (I enjoyed the movie) On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Michael Shirley < michael.shir...@bigpond.com> wrote: > It's also about how a powerful government authority connived with the > aircraft manufacturer to blame the pilots for the loss of the aircraft. > Fortunately, Sully caught them out and revealed their deception. > Michael > > -Original Message- > From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On > Behalf Of DMcD > Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 12:30 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully" > > >>Saw the film "Sully" where he landed a A320 on the Hudson River in New > York. > > I was quite interested in seeing this film but my son said "Why make a > film about someone who just followed standard operational procedures…" > > Is this a valid point? It's not exactly Apollo 13. The real story, not the > film version. > > D > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
It's also about how a powerful government authority connived with the aircraft manufacturer to blame the pilots for the loss of the aircraft. Fortunately, Sully caught them out and revealed their deception. Michael -Original Message- From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 12:30 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully" >>Saw the film "Sully" where he landed a A320 on the Hudson River in New York. I was quite interested in seeing this film but my son said "Why make a film about someone who just followed standard operational procedures…" Is this a valid point? It's not exactly Apollo 13. The real story, not the film version. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
>>Saw the film "Sully" where he landed a A320 on the Hudson River in New York. I was quite interested in seeing this film but my son said "Why make a film about someone who just followed standard operational procedures…" Is this a valid point? It's not exactly Apollo 13. The real story, not the film version. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Sully"
Supposedly in his book (I haven't read it) he plays down any impact his gliding experience had on the outcome. On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:28 PM, Peter (PCS3) wrote: > Saw the film "Sully" where he landed a A320 on the Hudson River in New > York. > No mention of him being a gliding instructor. :-( > PeterS > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] "Sully"
Saw the film "Sully" where he landed a A320 on the Hudson River in New York. No mention of him being a gliding instructor. :-( PeterS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
