Re: [Aus-soaring] New Website - Can't Find anything !!!
I can vouch for that Cheers Bob T - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley To: gr...@davies.id.au ; 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New Website - Can't Find anything !!! Grant, I built and maintained every computerised membership system the GFA ever had (starting in 1978 and finishing in 2000 or so) until they went - with my encouragement - to a commercial system. After 20 years, I think I have earned the right to say that those who whinge should be helping, instead. When you have done it for that long, let me know. Cheers Tim se sono rose, fioriranno From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Grant Davies Sent: Friday, 22 October 2010 10:29 To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New Website - Can't Find anything !!! It is not that hard to build a CMS, even interfacing shouldn't be that hard. I build them for less than $5k. Help was offered and I am sure there are plenty of other web savvy programmers out there who could have done a great job for far less than what was paid for a plug-in solution. But nothing was the stern reply. I think $50k was touted as the cost for this great upgrade. As we all know, an out of the box solution never fits all applications. Be it iMIS or Joomla. As soon as you want to make it do something different things get ugly. It is not really the wC3 compliance that's the problem. Most browsers can deal with it, except some of the less popular ones running on Macs it seems. The issue is more that it is slow and clunky and not logical to navigate. Of course there is also the fact that non web/graphical savvy people try their best to add content but it doesn't always come out looking that great. Options: 1.Pay a large company heaps of money for an off the shelf solution that doesn't quite do the job and wait for every and pay even more if you want anything changed or altered 2.Have your members do something for either nothing or very little and have it do exactly what you want and maybe have to wait a little if changes are required Of course there are pros and cons with both options. Guess the GFA thought well we have plenty of money let's just go for the (perceived) easiest option and disregard the fact that it is the members money and that it will not give the best outcome. The long and the short of it is; help can be offered but if there is no acceptance of the help then let us whinge about the decisions that have been made so someone may understand that what has been done is not up to scratch, otherwise we all accept and struggle with something that isn't up to scratch and no one is any the wiser. Shooting people down in flames for expressing an opinion is not a good look either. It is through discussion that we move forward. /soapbox Kindest Regards Grant Davies m. 0419 818 315 f. 07 41 54 14 36 e. gr...@davies.id.au From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2010 06:50 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New Website - Can't Find anything !!! IMIS runs the GFA membership system, and has for several years. As I understand it, this made it the best option when considering an appropriate CMS. Standing on the sidelines and whinging is not a good look. If you don't like the site, how about offering to help? Cheers Tim se sono rose, fioriranno From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Scutter Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2010 19:18 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New Website - Can't Find anything !!! I tried to find the minutes of the meeting where they decided to switch to this iMIS system, but couldn't find them on the new site either! I notice the old website was using Joomla!, a fairly popular open source content management system, does anyone know what the GFA's issues were with that? On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au wrote: The gfa pages fail validation via wC3. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this
Re: [Aus-soaring] Wave
Also being generated off the Grampians up to around lunch time today, when it all turned to sh*t. - Original Message - From: JR To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Wave over the top of Millicent also - Original Message - From: John C To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Wave Also along the Otway Ranges. John. - Original Message - From: Christopher Mc Donnell To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Wave Nice set to the east of the Adelide hills right now. Chris -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3211 - Release Date: 10/22/10 05:34:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web
Well said Anita! I agree with the majority of the postees, who say the site is not (yet) up to scratch. However, it is very obvious that there is considerable work in progress, and I look forward to a more satisfactory end result , hopefully in the not too distant future! Tim, I had no idea that your involvement with the computer systems went so far back. What a great effort! I note that in your reply to a posting by Grant Davies, you endorsed the change by GFA from a volunteer operated system to using a commercial provider. Matt provided some very useful and relevant background comment here. Just for interest ,would it be possible for you to give us a history lesson, and tell us how you got to your present way of thinking re the setup of the GFA website? Obviously the Board had to be convinced that a change was required . What do you think were the principal determinate factors? Are you game to make some predictions as to where we might be, say 5-10 years down the track with the new system? A reply off-line to some of this is OK too! Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Anita Taylor akauffm...@bigpond.com.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web Thanks Tim and Matt for your thoughts. My suggestion to anyone who is having a problem with the web page is to contact the GFA Office. I have had good support from them. I know that there are some issues with our new website and I can understand the frustration. I urge you to let the Office know that you are having problems so they can deal with those problems through our service providers. If you can not get any help, or information that satisfies you, I then suggest that you contact the Executive or your Regional Board representative. I would also remind you that many people are doing their VERY BEST to get things up to scratch. Many doing the work are volunteers and then there are the office employees who care very much about our sport, our members and the website, so please, when you are providing feedback, please be constructive and respectful. All the best Anita ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3211 - Release Date: 10/22/10 05:34:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web
Hi Gary, Two points. First, if a volunteer writes a custom-build program, they then have a commitment to maintain it. To fix bugs, and make modifications requested by the client. It is this second commitment that causes problems, because it is long term and firstly the volunteer may lose motivation or the available time, and also there is no cost or any other control on the client asking for modifications whenever they feel like it - which then reduces the programmer's motivation... Originally of course, there was no membership system that could be purchased so it had to be written. But by 2000 or so, relatively low cost off the shelf alternatives were available and so this was the best option for GFA in my view, and that is the way we went. For the history - I first wrote an Australian Gliding (the magazine) mailing system in 1978, then a couple of years later extended this into the first GFA membership system. GFA bought its first computer in the mid 80's - it was the size of a fridge, had 32KB (yes KB!) of memory and a 2.5MB (yes, MB!!) disk drive that was about the size of a family size pizza. This system was maintained until the mid 90's when I redeveloped again onto a PC, this time in Microsoft Access. The system was replaced by a commercial product (not iMIS) in 2000 or 2001 and then by iMIS sometime around 2006. Second: With the current website, there are really two parts to it. The membership system and the underlying structure (Content Management System) are off the shelf products, as they should be. However the main website that you see - the design, layout, and the content in the form of articles, pictures, links etc - is done by volunteers or office staff. It is this part that is currently a work in progress, and it will definitely improve over time. It is not for me to say whether the current maintainers need or want help, but it is in this area where a skilled volunteer could possibly add value. It is important not to confuse the two parts, and it is certainly wrong to think that because the membership system is in the hands of professionals that this means that GFA has turned its back on using volunteers in other areas. Hope this helps. Cheers Tim Tra dire e fare c`รจ mezzo il mare (Between talking and doing there is half an ocean) -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Friday, 22 October 2010 20:43 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web Well said Anita! I agree with the majority of the postees, who say the site is not (yet) up to scratch. However, it is very obvious that there is considerable work in progress, and I look forward to a more satisfactory end result , hopefully in the not too distant future! Tim, I had no idea that your involvement with the computer systems went so far back. What a great effort! I note that in your reply to a posting by Grant Davies, you endorsed the change by GFA from a volunteer operated system to using a commercial provider. Matt provided some very useful and relevant background comment here. Just for interest ,would it be possible for you to give us a history lesson, and tell us how you got to your present way of thinking re the setup of the GFA website? Obviously the Board had to be convinced that a change was required . What do you think were the principal determinate factors? Are you game to make some predictions as to where we might be, say 5-10 years down the track with the new system? A reply off-line to some of this is OK too! Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Anita Taylor akauffm...@bigpond.com.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web Thanks Tim and Matt for your thoughts. My suggestion to anyone who is having a problem with the web page is to contact the GFA Office. I have had good support from them. I know that there are some issues with our new website and I can understand the frustration. I urge you to let the Office know that you are having problems so they can deal with those problems through our service providers. If you can not get any help, or information that satisfies you, I then suggest that you contact the Executive or your Regional Board representative. I would also remind you that many people are doing their VERY BEST to get things up to scratch. Many doing the work are volunteers and then there are the office employees who care very much about our sport, our members and the website, so please, when you are providing feedback, please be constructive and respectful. All the best Anita ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:
[Aus-soaring] Gliding Queensland - History Archive
The new history archive section of the GQ website is now up and running. Access is via the History tab on the GQ website home page at ... www.glidingqueensland.org.au Kevin Rodda ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web
On 22/10/2010, at 8:29 PM, Tim Shirley wrote: It is important not to confuse the two parts, and it is certainly wrong to think that because the membership system is in the hands of professionals that this means that GFA has turned its back on using volunteers in other areas. And it will be a lot of help to everyone when the federation through its elected officers is able to formally differentiate across its activities between - - professional inputs and volunteer - fraternal matters and regulatory The absence of that definition is a burr which starts the volunteer disengagement process Tim talks about. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
