Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial

[tom claffey]

I was a VERY good day!  :]
Tom



 From: Bruce Campbell 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
 
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2012 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial
 

This really was a special run of weather. There were several great days in a 
row, but the last was the best as far as Temora went - and it was the only day 
I didn't have to work. There were at least four 750km flights in club class 
gliders on that day - Ziggy Kominek in Jantar Std 2 CQT, Col Vassarotti in Std 
Libelle BE, Gary Stevenson in Std Libelle BL, and myself in Std Cirrus AM. I 
think David Pietsch may have done a 750 also in ASW20 ZZ (not sure it was known 
as ZZ then) although at the time the 20 was a bit above club class. 
 
This was the same day that Tom Claffey set the Std Class Australian record for 
a 1000 (1016km) FAI triangle speed in Discus B FV. Gary and I did 
Temora-Hillston-Narromne-Temora - a 750km FAI triangle (756km). Mine was 
memorable for several reasons - a 12:25 launch after rigging with an optimistic 
750 in the little black box, then cruising at 100 knots in a Cirrus to stay out 
of the streeting cloud at 11,000 ft on the first leg to Hillston, passing Tomas 
Suchanek and Tom at Forbes on the last leg (they were en route to Narromine), 
landing after 7:02 (107km/hr)..it was an awesome flight. 900 was possible 
in the Cirrus that day. Gary may recollect it too.
 
I think that that may have been they weather cycle that got Harry from Keepit 
to Gawler, but not sure.
 
The spoiler was the tug release point for me was on the wrong side of the 
airfield (en route) so I was never able to claim it. Oh well - I'll claim the 
750 when I do my 1000 I thought. Never got there despite many attempts over 10 
years (in Discus A D1 - best 925km but not claimable either due abandoning 2nd 
turn) - just needed that magic '99 day again. I watched weather closely whilst 
juggling work commitments (which as a water resources engineer also allowed me 
to get paid for weather watching!), but never saw a day lke it, so I don't 
subscribe to the 7 year cycle!
 
Cheers
 
Bruce
 
Bruce Campbell


On 18 July 2012 16:03, Harry  wrote:

Hi All,
>The amazing flights referred resulted from some rather special weather 
>conditions.Most of you would remember the Sydney to Hobart fleet which ran 
>into a ferocious storm of the Victorian coast and into Bass Strait. Some boats 
>were sunk and lives lost. This abnormal  low pressure system dumped billions 
>of cubic metres of cold dry air over Victoria and much of NSW, much further 
>north than the usual cold fronts which pass through at that time of the year 
>and produce the usual good conditions which are centred along the line 
>Waikerie, Tocumwal and Corowa . As the succeeding high pressure system went 
>through this low dew point air warmed up day by day and produced the ideal 
>temperature profile, including cloud bases of up to 14,000 ft. I remember it 
>well. The rather wetter patterns of the last couple of years have been the 
>result of the high pressure systems dragging in warm moist ocean air. the 
>length of fetch has often extended over a 1,000 km resulting in
 dew points of up to and over 20 deg.  The dew point of air from the southern 
ocean is usually below 10 an sometimes a minus number
>Harry Medlicott
>
>-Original Message- From: Matthew Scutter
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:52 PM 
>
>To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial 
>
>
>Perhaps Adam is referring to the El Nino / La Nina oscillation, which
>has a large influence on Queensland's weather patterns.
>Very roughly 5 year cycles.
>-Matthew
>
>[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ni%C3%B1o-Southern_Oscillation
>
>On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:10 PM,   wrote:
>
>WPP,
>>"I think the weather cycle goes in 7 yr increments." Now that is a very
>>brave statement indeed!
>>
>>Memory is a fallible thing, but I seem to recall (from many -30/40? -years
>>ago), that the Dutch had to hand at that time, over 400 years worth of
>>continuous weather records. This data (exactly what was available was not
>>stated), was analysed for cyclic pattens. The result - NO PATTEN AT ALL
>>COULD BE DEDUCED.
>>Does anyone know about this or similar work, and can comment further?
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>- Original Message - From: "Adam Woolley"
>>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:50 PM
>>
>>Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial
>>
>>
>>
>>G'day All,
>>>
>>>I've been keen to set up some unofficial club class records since getting
>>>my Cirrus. Hope you see the concept/idea as I've seen it. The reason behind
>>>it,
>>>
>>>As per '3.2' - All in good fun, to give those who can't go for official
>>>records due to financial reasons (eg, not being able to obtain a Discus 2,
>>>to go for a STD class record) or not being their preferred class.
>>>
>>>In 1999,

[Aus-soaring] Qld State comps 2012

[Bob Ward]

It has come to my attention as Competition Director for the Queensland State
Comps Sept. 39 to Oct. 6, that the advertised $100 entry cancellation
penalty unduly penalises entrants who need to cancel, due to problems such
as cancelled leave or rosters not available early enough to commit with
certainty.

Accordingly, the late entry fee, together with the cancellation fee will now
each be $50. This changes will be reflected on the competition web site.

We look forward to having many entries from the southern states, for the
traditional competition season "pipe opener"

 

Regards

Bob Ward.

Competition Director 

Queensland State Comps 2012.

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Only in US of America

[Tim Shirley]

Title: Untitled Document

  
  
And one, no doubt, was with the
  carabinieri.
  












  Cheers
  
  Tim
  tra
dire e
fare c'è mezzo il mare

  
  On 20/07/2012 09:17, Christopher McDonnell wrote:


  

  Nice to see TWO Chiefs of Police out on patrol.   
   
  http://www.waxahachietx.com/news/ellis_county/glider-pilots-make-safe-landings-near-roadway-in-italy/article_fe0cbaca-d1e2-11e1-8e21-0019bb2963f4.html

  
  
  
  
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[Aus-soaring] Only in US of America

[Christopher McDonnell]

Nice to see TWO Chiefs of Police out on patrol.   

http://www.waxahachietx.com/news/ellis_county/glider-pilots-make-safe-landings-near-roadway-in-italy/article_fe0cbaca-d1e2-11e1-8e21-0019bb2963f4.html<>___
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[Aus-soaring] Darling Downs weather for the weekend of 21 - 22 July 2012

[Robert Hart]

  
  
Hi folks

Apologies for the lack of forecast yesterday morning - I had to be
at the airport by 6am and getting a forecast done before that was
impossible!

The weekend forecast is now available at the link below - and it
looks good, with cloud on both days!

-- 
  
  
  
  
  
  Robert
  Hart  ha...@interweft.com.au
  Darling
Downs
gliding weather information
+61 438 385 533 

  

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial

[gstevo10]

Hi Patch,
I am for sure NOT knocking Wooden/Vintage gliders as such. Carefully note 
that in my recent post I was referring to 1-26 gliders only - mostly 
constructed of metal: What are their fatigue limits I wonder?. Have any 
tests been done to establish a base? HOWEVER despite your disclaimers about 
"glue and white ants" old wooden gliders can fail, and DO fail if they are 
not lovingly looked after. I am not going into THAT territory!


K6s were on the way out when I learnt to fly gliders in the early 70s. I 
got a couple of hours in at that time in 6's of various Marks up to the E. 
The B model using an external fuselage dolly for launching, which was 
dropped by the pilot, at a well chosen moment (very) soon after rotation was 
an interesting variation. I did not get to fly it, but observed the many 
ways this launching method could go wrong! Nothing wrong with this idea as 
concept. An idea explored, and then discarded as impractable. This exercise 
was of course a step that inevitably led to the development of the 
retraceable undercarriage.

   
**

Here is a story for you. I hope you find it entertaining and more 
importantly, instructive. I have in the past done a few 500's in ES60Bs. 
Details of most of these flight are lost to me, but I do recall a flight out 
of Mildura on the 9 Dec 1980. The interesting thing here for me was that at 
the time I did not have my Gold C height claim signed off, and on the day, 
given my low point (which was just off launch), acheiving this goal  looked 
just possible. On this day the thermal strength severely declined towards 
the top few hundred feet of of the climb. 6-8 knots were available for most 
of the climb. Towards the top it was a knot or 2. So I had a choice, leave 
the thermals at an optimum height, to maximize speed, or milk the thermals 
for a gold height claim. I decided on the latter. It took me 3 very painful 
goes to be certain that I had recorded the necessary absolute attitude to 
file a successful Gold C height claim. Needless to say all the time I spent 
in 1 or 2 knots meant that I did not win the day! So why do I remember this 
day so well? Well it turned out that my altimeter under-read by 200' and in 
fact I had gained the necessary height on my very first climb! Yeah the 
margin was that fine! Stats  are TASK: MDA - BALRENALD a/f - BIRCHIP silo - 
MDA - 514.9 KM, 81.5 kph


So we come to the question: What (from your armchair), and with 20/20 vision 
would you have done? Let me say that since then, over the years, I have made 
Gold C height dozens of times.


If you have a look at the record book, you might note that on the very next 
day Terry Cubley, from this site, in a Standard Cirrus established a 300 km 
triangle Australian record - across all classes - that stood for many, many 
years. I too flew on the day: in Super Arrow GYS: 15 knots average to lets 
say 15, 000/18,000 ft- maybe  more? I did not have oxygen, so the height of 
convection is only a guess. Maybe Cubley or someone else who was there on 
the day can say just  what cloudbase was? Here are a few more figures for 
you to contemplate. If the lift was 1500 fpm


So (again ironically), the very next day after I had struggled so, I again 
got my Gold C gain of height, as the second of many, without the slightest 
problem.





ginal Message - 
From: "Ruth Patching" 
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial



Hi Stevo,

We used the old AG year books and listed all the records done in wooden 
aircraft and drew our line there. The records tumbled when the 
Boomerang/Austria/Foka were replaced with Diamants, Libelles , Pheobus and 
Cirrus. They weren't just a step up, they were a leap.


On some exceptional days there were some exceptional flights done. Geoff's 
in the Boomerang and Brian Mclaren's 800 odd Km in the Standard Austria 
were just outstanding. What I reckon is that if they knew what we know 
now, they may have gone further. In the last 2 years there has been 
flights of over 1000 k in a K6E (USA) and more recently the 600 k in a K2 
two seater (Europe). A K2 not even a K7, probably a 24:1 glide angle.


I can't endorse your comment that these gliders need to be retired. I 
argue it's not really about the glider, it's more about the pilot 
extending themselves. I won't even say that anyone can jump in a current 
machine and just chalk off their silver C. Doesn't matter what you fly, 
it's still a goal to achieve in a flying machine without an engine.


Your comments about glue and structural failure needs to be toned down a 
bit. Even you know about delamination in glass structures so don't just 
point the finger at wood. Most glues have demonstrated longevity, 
particularly Casien, which would have to be one of the most careful glues 
to m

Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial

[Bruce Campbell]

This really was a special run of weather. There were several great days in
a row, but the last was the best as far as Temora went - and it was the
only day I didn't have to work. There were at least four 750km flights in
club class gliders on that day - Ziggy Kominek in Jantar Std 2 CQT, Col
Vassarotti in Std Libelle BE, Gary Stevenson in Std Libelle BL, and myself
in Std Cirrus AM. I think David Pietsch may have done a 750 also in ASW20
ZZ (not sure it was known as ZZ then) although at the time the 20 was a bit
above club class.

This was the same day that Tom Claffey set the Std Class Australian record
for a 1000 (1016km) FAI triangle speed in Discus B FV. Gary and I did
Temora-Hillston-Narromne-Temora - a 750km FAI triangle (756km). Mine was
memorable for several reasons - a 12:25 launch after rigging with an
optimistic 750 in the little black box, then cruising at 100 knots in a
Cirrus to stay out of the streeting cloud at 11,000 ft on the first leg to
Hillston, passing Tomas Suchanek and Tom at Forbes on the last leg (they
were en route to Narromine), landing after 7:02 (107km/hr)..it was an
awesome flight. 900 was possible in the Cirrus that day. Gary may recollect
it too.

I think that that may have been they weather cycle that got Harry from
Keepit to Gawler, but not sure.

The spoiler was the tug release point for me was on the wrong side of the
airfield (en route) so I was never able to claim it. Oh well - I'll claim
the 750 when I do my 1000 I thought. Never got there despite many attempts
over 10 years (in Discus A D1 - best 925km but not claimable either due
abandoning 2nd turn) - just needed that magic '99 day again. I watched
weather closely whilst juggling work commitments (which as a water
resources engineer also allowed me to get paid for weather watching!), but
never saw a day lke it, so I don't subscribe to the 7 year cycle!

Cheers

Bruce

Bruce Campbell

On 18 July 2012 16:03, Harry  wrote:

> Hi All,
> The amazing flights referred resulted from some rather special weather
> conditions.Most of you would remember the Sydney to Hobart fleet which ran
> into a ferocious storm of the Victorian coast and into Bass Strait. Some
> boats were sunk and lives lost. This abnormal  low pressure system dumped
> billions of cubic metres of cold dry air over Victoria and much of NSW,
> much further north than the usual cold fronts which pass through at that
> time of the year and produce the usual good conditions which are centred
> along the line Waikerie, Tocumwal and Corowa . As the succeeding high
> pressure system went through this low dew point air warmed up day by day
> and produced the ideal temperature profile, including cloud bases of up to
> 14,000 ft. I remember it well. The rather wetter patterns of the last
> couple of years have been the result of the high pressure systems dragging
> in warm moist ocean air. the length of fetch has often extended over a
> 1,000 km resulting in dew points of up to and over 20 deg.  The dew point
> of air from the southern ocean is usually below 10 an sometimes a minus
> number
> Harry Medlicott
>
> -Original Message- From: Matthew Scutter
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:52 PM
>
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial
>
>
> Perhaps Adam is referring to the El Nino / La Nina oscillation, which
> has a large influence on Queensland's weather patterns.
> Very roughly 5 year cycles.
> -Matthew
>
> [1] 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**El_Ni%C3%B1o-Southern_**Oscillation
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:10 PM,   wrote:
>
>> WPP,
>> "I think the weather cycle goes in 7 yr increments." Now that is a very
>> brave statement indeed!
>>
>> Memory is a fallible thing, but I seem to recall (from many -30/40? -years
>> ago), that the Dutch had to hand at that time, over 400 years worth of
>> continuous weather records. This data (exactly what was available was not
>> stated), was analysed for cyclic pattens. The result - NO PATTEN AT ALL
>> COULD BE DEDUCED.
>> Does anyone know about this or similar work, and can comment further?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Adam Woolley"
>> 
>> To: 
>> >
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:50 PM
>>
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial
>>
>>
>> G'day All,
>>>
>>> I've been keen to set up some unofficial club class records since getting
>>> my Cirrus. Hope you see the concept/idea as I've seen it. The reason
>>> behind
>>> it,
>>>
>>> As per '3.2' - All in good fun, to give those who can't go for official
>>> records due to financial reasons (eg, not being able to obtain a Discus
>>> 2,
>>> to go for a STD class record) or not being their preferred class.
>>>
>>> In 1999, Tom Claffey & others experienced some amazing weather conditions
>>> in AUS. I think that the weather cycle goes in 7yr increments. Now
>>> approaching 14yrs la

Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial

[Terry CUBLEY]

But of course the weather was always better 7 and 10 and 30 years ago - 
that's my memory anyway!


I like your suggestion Adam. Surely we still have records of previous 
records, and can just look for the best performance from current club class 
gliders and use those as the benchmark, -multiplied by the handicap of 
course? Unfortunately, the Boomerang doesn't meet current club class 
performance range, but we could just agree a handicap and apply this to see 
how they went?


Of course, older flights in a standard cirrus (I can think of one good one) 
were done with water ballast which makes a bit (?) of a difference. Some of 
the really 'good' flights were not official records - no declaration, no 
camera, no ...? so probably don't count - but still excellent flights and 
something to aspire to.


Maybe we should degrade some of those old flights? I mean, the weather was 
just better so a lot easier???


Worth some more thought and a proposal

Terry



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial



WPP,
"I think the weather cycle goes in 7 yr increments." Now that is a very 
brave statement indeed!


Memory is a fallible thing, but I seem to recall (from many -30/40? -years 
ago), that the Dutch had to hand at that time, over 400 years worth of 
continuous weather records. This data (exactly what was available was not 
stated), was analysed for cyclic pattens. The result - NO PATTEN AT ALL 
COULD BE DEDUCED.

Does anyone know about this or similar work, and can comment further?

Gary


- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Woolley" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:50 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class Records: unofficial



G'day All,

I've been keen to set up some unofficial club class records since getting 
my Cirrus. Hope you see the concept/idea as I've seen it. The reason 
behind it,


As per '3.2' - All in good fun, to give those who can't go for official 
records due to financial reasons (eg, not being able to obtain a Discus 
2, to go for a STD class record) or not being their preferred class.


In 1999, Tom Claffey & others experienced some amazing weather conditions 
in AUS. I think that the weather cycle goes in 7yr increments. Now 
approaching 14yrs later, I think we could be in for a good season - cross 
your fingers, I & many others would love a regular great season for a 
change!!!


All comments & potential additions on the below welcome.


SeeYou,
WPP
www.facebook.com/W3Racing



Unofficial Australian Club Club Class Records - Rules V1.0
Concept by Adam Woolley
Written by Adam Woolley


1 - Philosophy:  To provide a friendly and honest unofficial record 
list/rules for Australian pilots, whom race/fly in Australian airspace, 
in the gliders on the Australian Club Class Handicap list provided on the 
GFA website.


2 - RULES:  Use the Australian Junior Record Rules (found on 
www.joeyglide.com.au & www.ajgc.org.au websites) if you want to go 
'official official',  as kindly put together by Andrew Maddocks. The 
below are amendments & simple reminders, in no particular order & are 
generally based on the KISS principle, with safety in mind!


If you don't want to read the rules, & if your an honest person - the 
below will suffice.



2.1 - Entries Open: 18 JUL 2012.

2.2 - Eligable Gliders: Club Class Gliders, as found on the current years 
GFA Club Class Handicap list.


2.3 - Handicaps: the use of the current GFA Club Class Handicap list will 
be used for the flight (date) submitted.


2.4 - Reference Weight: the use of the current reference weight as 
provided by the GFA club class handicap list for the (date) submitted.


2.5 - After Market Modifications: No penalty will be given for the 
addition of winglets, wing fillets or extractor vents.


2.6 - Handicap Adjustments: 0.005 disadvantage per part there of 12kg 
over REFERENCE WEIGHT. No performance advantage given for gliders that 
fly below REFERENCE WEIGHT.


2.7 - Start Rule: 1km radius over pre-declared waypoint.

2.8 - Turnpoint(s): 500m radius.

2.9 - Finish: 3km radius from the pre-declared waypoint.

2.10 - Record submission: E-Mail your details appropriate for the flight 
(Start & Finish Point, Turnpoints (if not a free distance or height gain) 
inc waypoint details, glider type, approximate weight (or accurate if 
known)), & *.igc file to, agwool...@hotmail.com within 48hrs of 'end of 
roll'.


2.11 - Start/Finish Heights: You must finish at the predetermined finish 
point, within a 1000m of your start height & predetermined start point. 
For 'free distance' one way flights, you must start (predetermined point) 
below 1000m AGL & land safely at any point.


2.12 - Records: Each record will stay firm until beaten by the current 
years GFA handicap for the club class glider used.  ie, won't be changed 
each season if the glider handicap or reference weights