Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al

[Christopher McDonnell]

That is difficult to read at ‘first’ instance for the GFA geriatric membership. 

From: Gary Stevenson 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:31 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al

Hallo Chris, Matthew S  & All,

I sometimes shudder at the sheer ignorance that is often displayed by members  
of this forum.

 

Here is a very condensed overview, of who has responsibility, in an aviation 
accident.

 

Prime responsibility rests with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), 
a Commonwealth “Responsible Authority”. Among other things this body is  
empowered to investigate Aviation, Marine, and Rail accidents. Check out their 
web site for more information.

 

I understand that many years ago they elected not to investigate gliding 
accidents. As a result, gliding accident investigation is now the 
responsibility of the GFA, who report back to the ATSB where appropriate.  

 

Chris Thorpe is the Executive Manager, Operations for the GFA. As part of his 
responsibilities, he is charged with investigating and reporting  gliding 
accidents. In the case of the Goondiwindi accident, he completed his report on 
the 31 October 2014, and forwarded a copy to the ATSB. 

 

Matthew, I hope that EXACTLY answers your question.

 

Now, would you like to know more?

 

If you are a GFA member log on to the GFA site – members area. If you are not a 
GFA member, bad luck.

 

Go to Members Services and then  Operations, and look up Accidents/Incidents 
Particularly take note of the general comments made by David Pietsch in the 
preamble to this area of the site. For The Goondiwindi accident see “2015 
Summaries - report No S0421”.

 

Be aware that this report will be considered by your peers in GFA, and it is 
possible that one outcome may be the development of an education program for 
competition pilots focusing on human factors and risk management.

 

Regards,

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher 
McDonnell
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2014 5:29 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit

 

Gee Matthew, there is no ‘like’ tab.

 

From: Matthew Scutter 

Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:22 PM

To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit

 

Official report from who exactly?

 

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gary Stevenson  wrote:

Hi Paul,

As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and  full 
knowledge of the facts,  before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions. 
Given this, I  therefore was  NOT  making any judgement as such,  at all. 

Other than that,  you are in general  perfectly correct, and your further 
comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about. 

>From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide 
>and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended 
>up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots 
>safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is 
>the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom.

Hope that helps to clarify things for you.

Kindest regards,

Gary

BTW  let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American – 
not Australian  - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the 
parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable.

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM


To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit

 

I think you’ve been a bit quick to judge.

You state that whilst “Jim chose to fly on”, two other pilots made quite 
routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their 
part.

Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight 
in landings just as was Jim’s. One of them makes a desperate last circle close 
to the ground then straightens up and lands.

There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary 
picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then 
appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt 
headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All 
three try to thermal again without success.

All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are 
simply 7km further out when it does. 

There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least 
being how quickly thermals die in Queensland and how quickly the trap can snap. 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al

[Gary Stevenson]

Hallo Chris, Matthew S  & All,

I sometimes shudder at the sheer ignorance that is often displayed by members  
of this forum.

 

Here is a very condensed overview, of who has responsibility, in an aviation 
accident.

 

Prime responsibility rests with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), 
a Commonwealth “Responsible Authority”. Among other things this body is  
empowered to investigate Aviation, Marine, and Rail accidents. Check out their 
web site for more information.

 

I understand that many years ago they elected not to investigate gliding 
accidents. As a result, gliding accident investigation is now the 
responsibility of the GFA, who report back to the ATSB where appropriate.  

 

Chris Thorpe is the Executive Manager, Operations for the GFA. As part of his 
responsibilities, he is charged with investigating and reporting  gliding 
accidents. In the case of the Goondiwindi accident, he completed his report on 
the 31 October 2014, and forwarded a copy to the ATSB. 

 

Matthew, I hope that EXACTLY answers your question.

 

Now, would you like to know more?

 

If you are a GFA member log on to the GFA site – members area. If you are not a 
GFA member, bad luck.

 

Go to Members Services and then  Operations, and look up Accidents/Incidents 
Particularly take note of the general comments made by David Pietsch in the 
preamble to this area of the site. For The Goondiwindi accident see “2015 
Summaries - report No S0421”.

 

Be aware that this report will be considered by your peers in GFA, and it is 
possible that one outcome may be the development of an education program for 
competition pilots focusing on human factors and risk management.

 

Regards,

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher 
McDonnell
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2014 5:29 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit

 

Gee Matthew, there is no ‘like’ tab.

 

From: Matthew   Scutter 

Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:22 PM

To: Discussion of issues relating to 
  Soaring in Australia. 

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit

 

Official report from who exactly?

 

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gary Stevenson  wrote:

Hi Paul,

As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and  full 
knowledge of the facts,  before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions. 
Given this, I  therefore was  NOT  making any judgement as such,  at all. 

Other than that,  you are in general  perfectly correct, and your further 
comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about. 

>From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide 
>and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended 
>up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots 
>safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is 
>the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom.

Hope that helps to clarify things for you.

Kindest regards,

Gary

BTW  let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American – 
not Australian  - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the 
parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable.

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM


To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit

 

I think you’ve been a bit quick to judge.

You state that whilst “Jim chose to fly on”, two other pilots made quite 
routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their 
part.

Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight 
in landings just as was Jim’s. One of them makes a desperate last circle close 
to the ground then straightens up and lands.

There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary 
picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then 
appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt 
headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All 
three try to thermal again without success.

All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are 
simply 7km further out when it does. 

There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least 
being how quickly thermals die in Queensland and how quickly the trap can snap. 

But it’s not instructive, or fair, to make out that one was foolish where 
others were wise.

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internod