That is difficult to read at ‘first’ instance for the GFA geriatric membership.
From: Gary Stevenson
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:31 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al
Hallo Chris, Matthew S & All,
I sometimes shudder at the sheer ignorance that is often displayed by members
of this forum.
Here is a very condensed overview, of who has responsibility, in an aviation
accident.
Prime responsibility rests with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB),
a Commonwealth “Responsible Authority”. Among other things this body is
empowered to investigate Aviation, Marine, and Rail accidents. Check out their
web site for more information.
I understand that many years ago they elected not to investigate gliding
accidents. As a result, gliding accident investigation is now the
responsibility of the GFA, who report back to the ATSB where appropriate.
Chris Thorpe is the Executive Manager, Operations for the GFA. As part of his
responsibilities, he is charged with investigating and reporting gliding
accidents. In the case of the Goondiwindi accident, he completed his report on
the 31 October 2014, and forwarded a copy to the ATSB.
Matthew, I hope that EXACTLY answers your question.
Now, would you like to know more?
If you are a GFA member log on to the GFA site – members area. If you are not a
GFA member, bad luck.
Go to Members Services and then Operations, and look up Accidents/Incidents
Particularly take note of the general comments made by David Pietsch in the
preamble to this area of the site. For The Goondiwindi accident see “2015
Summaries - report No S0421”.
Be aware that this report will be considered by your peers in GFA, and it is
possible that one outcome may be the development of an education program for
competition pilots focusing on human factors and risk management.
Regards,
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher
McDonnell
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2014 5:29 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
Gee Matthew, there is no ‘like’ tab.
From: Matthew Scutter
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
Official report from who exactly?
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gary Stevenson <gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and full
knowledge of the facts, before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions.
Given this, I therefore was NOT making any judgement as such, at all.
Other than that, you are in general perfectly correct, and your further
comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about.
>From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide
>and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended
>up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots
>safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is
>the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom.
Hope that helps to clarify things for you.
Kindest regards,
Gary
BTW let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American –
not Australian - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the
parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable.
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
I think you’ve been a bit quick to judge.
You state that whilst “Jim chose to fly on”, two other pilots made quite
routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their
part.
Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight
in landings just as was Jim’s. One of them makes a desperate last circle close
to the ground then straightens up and lands.
There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary
picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then
appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt
headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All
three try to thermal again without success.
All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are
simply 7km further out when it does.
There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least
being how quickly thermals die in Queensland and how quickly the trap can snap.
But it’s not instructive, or fair, to make out that one was foolish where
others were wise.
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson
Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 10:45 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
Michael Texler in his post of the evening of 28 Oct, finally “Got It”.
Tim has now amplified matters, so that to mis-quote one famous author, “even a
schoolboy can understand”. Just a preamble: the point I really want to make is
that on that last day when Jim choose to fly on, 2 pilots in Sports Class
elected to make quite routine outlandings (into the same paddock apparently),
just 7 km from home. As usual their traces are available on Soaring Spot. Names
do not need to be mentioned – just look at Sports Class, and then check the
outlandings and distances covered to pinpoint the two relevant traces.
Tim , you are being a little bit shy in your use of the Oz vernacular. The
“Municipal Dunny Man” filled a very valuable and quite unique place in
servicing one the essential needs of communities prior to the development of
reticulated sewerage systems. So to get the language straight, let me put “shed
loads” back into its true blue and dinky di context: “shit-cart full loads”.
Further ;
For Australian Musical Researchers try Googling “Municipal Dunny Can”. .....
And of course do not overlook that Australian work of great literary worth
titled “The Specialist”. For visual art buffs this work was no doubt part
inspiration for the 2006 Oz movie “Kenny”.
Cheers,
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley
Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:39 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules...
Hi all,
Once again a disclaimer: I hold no relevant official position with the GFA. I
do have considerable experience as a rulemaker, as a Contest Director, as a
Scorer, and as a competition pilot. I speak only for myself.
What follows is general clarification about competitions and rules, and is not
intended as a comment on any specific incident.
Back when I was involved in competition rulemaking, I remember we introduced
some principles as a preamble to the rules and on checking I found that most of
them are still there:
At all times it remains the responsibility of pilots to operate in accordance
with the GFA Manual of Standard
Procedures and all applicable laws and regulations.
Pilots are expected to conduct themselves at all times in the spirit of these
rules and in accordance with the practice of good sportsmanship.
Safety is at all times the primary consideration. If at any time a pilot feels
that the requirements of these rules compromises the safety of their flight
then they should take whatever actions are required to ensure the safety of
themselves and of other air users. This may include withdrawing from the task
or from the competition.
Pilots are required to conduct themselves in a manner that will not bring
disrepute on the Organisers, the hosting club or the GFA.
There is nothing in the competition rules that suspends any laws. There are no
exemptions. Pilots flying in a competition are just pilots, and must obey
every requirement of the law. They remain fully responsible as Pilots in
Command for the conduct of the flight. If they choose to disobey the law or
good practice then that is entirely their responsibility. The competition is a
game. Flying is not.
No one wants to break their glider or themselves, and the rules of the game
clearly discourage that by the simple fact that most of the time there is
another race tomorrow. You won't get any points from a hospital bed or if your
glider is in bits. On the last day, well if there was a million dollars at
stake I could imagine that the risk of rolling yourself into a ball might be
worth taking for some - but in our game why would anyone break a $100K glider
for a bottle of cheap wine and a round of applause? Or even for the
opportunity to spend shed loads of their own money representing Australia?
If you want to know who is responsible for the safety of a flight where you are
the Pilot in Command, take a good look in a mirror. And be very sure of what
you see.
Cheers
Tim Shirley
tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare
On 28/10/2014 2:06 PM, Texler, Michael wrote:
The caveat should be in place that the crash was a result of your own poor
decision making. Now what constitutes poor decision making is a matter of
opinion. Surely competition rules should be in place to discourage
crashing:i.e. you crash, you are out of the comp. You pack up and go home.
I'll leave it to others more experienced in these matters to give reasons why.
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