Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Hi Gary, You Wrote: You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home airfield – Bacchus Marsh - that (most times), you fully expect to be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your airfield. ?? That's exactly what I'm saying. And please also bear in mind that I said a flight within gliding range is not an introduction to x-country but at best a thermalling exercise. Please also realise that this is written by somebody who at this point in time flies more x-country out of BM than anybody else and is an active coach. You also wrote:There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot!My answer to your post was mainly an attempt to voice my opposition to your disdain for good trailers. To further demonstrate allow me a quote from the US gliding forum on discussion what glider to buy:Get the best trailer you can afford and take whatever glider is in it.A little extreme but he got a point. Best Regards - Rolf Rgds - Rolf ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
I would give the messenger refreshment after his journey and ask him why there was nothing in his master’s envelope. Done a bit re the master’s ‘records’ lately. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 2:19 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots If you want a messenger to continue delivering messages, it would be best not to start by shooting them. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 2:03 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Records are just that. RECORDS! From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots There is a list of current records, but (to the best of my knowledge) no archive of previous holders. I could be wrong. I was, once. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 1:10 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Mark Laird has flown +500 km in a K7 on more than one occasion From: stephenk Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers /Tim Shirley/ /tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/ On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ *From:*aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *stephenk *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 137, Issue 21
0437 769 765 the same -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015 11:50 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 137, Issue 21 Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Early X/C pilots (Gary Stevenson) 2. Re: Early X/C pilots (DMcD) 3. Re: Early X/C pilots (Dave Boulter) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:00:17 +1100 From: Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 001201d049d7$bfff99e0$3ffecda0$@com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Rolf, Some time has passed since you responded to my yesterdays post. In the interval, there have been some very considered responses from other members of this forum. In your initial response I think you really missed the point that Derek made, and which I fully supported. Derek basically said that very useful X/C training can be done in a K13 performance type glider, even in this day when Duo's and DG 1000's are available in an increasing number of clubs. Please note exactly what Derek added (but don't go too far : ) And that is the very crux of the matter. The training has to be conducted within the performance envelope of the glider being used, and the conditions on the day. You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home airfield - Bacchus Marsh - that (most times), you fully expect to be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your airfield. ?? Most clubs have a milk run 100 k triangle that early X/C pilots can attempt. Usually the pilot is never more than 20 or 30 km from base. I suggest to you that on an average Oz day at Bacchus Marsh, not even a K13 is going to be out of range of the home base for very long on such a task. BTW, I know that 750 k flights have been done out of BM. Maybe the first or second ever done in Australia? Useful X/C training does NOT require the use of State of the Art gliders. Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. Richard Frawley, I am staggered after reading your post. Just as Derek covered the early training situation in a low (by current standards), performance glider in one line , you seem to have covered in a very few words, the entire guts of the situation. Well done indeed. I suggest to the GFA Board that your post is incorporated (spelling aside), into the relevant GFA manual. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of rolf a. buelter Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015 1:18 PM To: aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Dear Gary, I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice. To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if you prefer not to: How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24 months? How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider? How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer? How many ended in an out landing? Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger. With kindest Regards - Rolf From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Sun,
Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
HA, I think if you examine the entrails of this thread towards the beginning, the theme was taking students on cross countries while they were training. This is not quite the same as early cross countries where the low hours pilot is doing it for themselves. Have you talked to air experience customers or student pilots about what the early X-C pilot aspires to? A Foka? A KA 6? A Rhonadler? Or a J21? The suggestion was that if you turned off the clock and gave a free X-C flight to a pre-solo pilot, you might get them addicted to the pastime. But if you take them in a Pucatec, the chances are that they will be rigid with fright all the time in case the thing doesn't make it back. I know I was. I love vintage gliders and possibly the most fun flight I have had was in a T31. I was not scared at all because we never crossed the boundary fence. However an X-C experience it was not. Climbing into some flakey, buckled, creaking, noisy and worn thing like a 28 or a Puc with dusty heritage instruments, torn upholstery and sweat stained harnesses nearly put me off for life… early on. The point is to sell gliding and I believe that most people's expectations are to fly a modern glider and their aspirations are over 40:1 not under it. Heritage fliers can offer all the low-rent excuses they want but isn't this exactly the plan which has seen participation numbers dwindling? Why not try something different? Of course we need some low-cost entry level gliders but I really doubt that this is what ab-inito fliers see themselves ending up in. How many current drivers would choose an EH Holden over a Porch? D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Every Sunday that I instruct if there is lift, I encourage the person I am flying with to fly what we call Woody's triangle. It is only 50kms approx but along the way they get to learn to fly faster, not turn in crap and all within precious glide of Camden which keeps all concerned happy. I have people now who like talking about flying like a shark (thanks G Dale for that one) and happily look at streets ahead and importantly look above them at what they are actually flying in (thanks Paul Matthews for that one). Maurie Bradney inspired me in the first part to think like this. I thought I could not practice at Camden and he set me straight. And when the folks I fly with are showing more interest I send them off to Keepit, Narromine or Temora where they can get the real taste of things to come. On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Rolf, Some time has passed since you responded to my yesterdays post. In the interval, there have been some very considered responses from other members of this forum. In your initial response I think you really missed the point that Derek made, and which I fully supported. Derek basically said that very useful X/C training can be done in a K13 performance type glider, even in this day when Duo's and DG 1000's are available in an increasing number of clubs. Please note exactly what Derek added (but don't go too far : ) And that is the very crux of the matter. The training has to be conducted within the performance envelope of the glider being used, and the conditions on the day. You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home airfield - Bacchus Marsh - that (most times), you fully expect to be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your airfield. ?? Most clubs have a milk run 100 k triangle that early X/C pilots can attempt. Usually the pilot is never more than 20 or 30 km from base. I suggest to you that on an average Oz day at Bacchus Marsh, not even a K13 is going to be out of range of the home base for very long on such a task. BTW, I know that 750 k flights have been done out of BM. Maybe the first or second ever done in Australia? Useful X/C training does NOT require the use of State of the Art gliders. Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. Richard Frawley, I am staggered after reading your post. Just as Derek covered the early training situation in a low (by current standards), performance glider in one line , you seem to have covered in a very few words, the entire guts of the situation. Well done indeed. I suggest to the GFA Board that your post is incorporated (spelling aside), into the relevant GFA manual. Gary *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *rolf a. buelter *Sent:* Monday, 16 February 2015 1:18 PM *To:* aus soaring *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Dear Gary, I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice. To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if you prefer not to: How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24 months? How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider? How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer? How many ended in an out landing? Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger. With kindest Regards - Rolf From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Hi Derek, Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done. As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3 hours. There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
On 17 Feb 2015, at 2:03 pm, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: Records are just that. RECORDS! They go around and around and have a whole in the middle. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
On 17 Feb 2015, at 2:46 pm, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: Any record holder would be disappointed that their effort had not been ‘recorded’. There have been various periods of ‘hands off the wheel’ since 1949. wlEmoticon-steamingmad[1].pngwlEmoticon-sadsmile[1].png Isn’t that one of the things sports regulators do BTW ? Semantics Scott and not funny. I didn’t write that, Tim did. I made the joke about records - which was a bit funny. Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
If you want a messenger to continue delivering messages, it would be best not to start by shooting them. Cheers /Tim Shirley/ /tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/ On 17/02/2015 2:03 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Records are just that. RECORDS! *From:* Tim Shirley mailto:tshir...@internode.on.net *Sent:* Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots There is a list of current records, but (to the best of my knowledge) no archive of previous holders. I could be wrong. I was, once. Cheers /Tim Shirley/ /tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/ On 17/02/2015 1:10 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. *From:* Tim Shirley mailto:tshir...@internode.on.net *Sent:* Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers /Tim Shirley/ /tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/ On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ *From:*aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *stephenk *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Any record holder would be disappointed that their effort had not been ‘recorded’. There have been various periods of ‘hands off the wheel’ since 1949. Isn’t that one of the things sports regulators do BTW ? Semantics Scott and not funny. From: Scott Penrose Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:10 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 17 Feb 2015, at 2:03 pm, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: Records are just that. RECORDS! They go around and around and have a whole in the middle. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
On 17 Feb 2015, at 2:49 pm, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: I didn’t write that, Tim did. I made the joke about records - which was a bit funny. I have a note from my doctor. It says I am dyslexic today - sorry. Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
There is a list of current records, but (to the best of my knowledge) no archive of previous holders. I could be wrong. I was, once. Cheers /Tim Shirley/ /tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/ On 17/02/2015 1:10 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. *From:* Tim Shirley mailto:tshir...@internode.on.net *Sent:* Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers /Tim Shirley/ /tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/ On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ *From:*aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *stephenk *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Records are just that. RECORDS! From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots There is a list of current records, but (to the best of my knowledge) no archive of previous holders. I could be wrong. I was, once. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 1:10 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
On 17 Feb 2015, at 2:10 pm, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: whole A whole hole :-) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Hi Rolf, Some time has passed since you responded to my yesterdays post. In the interval, there have been some very considered responses from other members of this forum. In your initial response I think you really missed the point that Derek made, and which I fully supported. Derek basically said that very useful X/C training can be done in a K13 performance type glider, even in this day when Duo's and DG 1000's are available in an increasing number of clubs. Please note exactly what Derek added (but don't go too far : ) And that is the very crux of the matter. The training has to be conducted within the performance envelope of the glider being used, and the conditions on the day. You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home airfield - Bacchus Marsh - that (most times), you fully expect to be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your airfield. ?? Most clubs have a milk run 100 k triangle that early X/C pilots can attempt. Usually the pilot is never more than 20 or 30 km from base. I suggest to you that on an average Oz day at Bacchus Marsh, not even a K13 is going to be out of range of the home base for very long on such a task. BTW, I know that 750 k flights have been done out of BM. Maybe the first or second ever done in Australia? Useful X/C training does NOT require the use of State of the Art gliders. Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. Richard Frawley, I am staggered after reading your post. Just as Derek covered the early training situation in a low (by current standards), performance glider in one line , you seem to have covered in a very few words, the entire guts of the situation. Well done indeed. I suggest to the GFA Board that your post is incorporated (spelling aside), into the relevant GFA manual. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of rolf a. buelter Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015 1:18 PM To: aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Dear Gary, I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice. To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if you prefer not to: How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24 months? How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider? How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer? How many ended in an out landing? Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger. With kindest Regards - Rolf From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Hi Derek, Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done. As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3 hours. There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot until this exercise is done. Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal (almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed. Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) )
Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Spot on Harry.
BR Jenny
From: Harry hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015, 14:44
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
#yiv4058375659 #yiv4058375659 --.yiv4058375659hmmessage
P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv4058375659
body.yiv4058375659hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv4058375659
Rolf is right. A DuoDiscus or similar is an easy and pleasant way to fly a
cross country training flight. However not all and probably a minority of clubs
have access to a two seater glider costing perhaps $200,000 new. Please don’t
discount what is achievable in a glider of the capability of an ASK21 on a
moderately good soaring day. At Gulgong we had K7 competitions with up to 7 X
K7s flying and the odd Berkfalke or Blanik. Without the benefit of currently
available meteorological information, the tasks were in the range of over 100
km up to 250 km. Nearly all gliders got around the tasks. Sure it took a bit
longer with maximum speeds about 60 knots but they were a lot of fun. These
gliders may not go very fast between thermals, but they certainly feel the lift
and climb well. Pretty useful in a training situation with an experienced
pilot on board. At lake Keepit we have a data base of airfields and it is
possible to set tasks which keep the gliders pretty close to one. Landing on an
airfield either allows an aerotow or easy retrieve. Distances are not all that
huge and retrieves no great problem with a reasonable trailer. So please
don’t frighten off those clubs or pilots without the latest and greatest,
Harry Medlicott
From: rolf a. buelter Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 1:18 PMTo: aus soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Dear Gary,
I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to
embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in
time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time.
With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours
in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a
crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed
earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3
other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to
the aerodrome does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it
represents some thermalling practice.
To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if
you prefer not to:
How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24
months?
How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider?
How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer?
How many ended in an out landing?
Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out
myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger.
With kindest Regards - Rolf
From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Hi Derek,
Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one
else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have
summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done.
As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3
hours.
There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for
road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is a great asset, but it
is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go
X/C is totally familiar with the workings of the trailer that IS available.
Quite simply, if the pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for
that pilot until this exercise is done.
Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few improvements
to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal (almost always!), but in my
experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed.
Gary
-Original Message-
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock
Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) )
-Original Message-
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD
Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 6:02 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
the GFA pilot training programme for more cross-country exposure during the
