Hi Rolf, Some time has passed since you responded to my yesterdays post. In the interval, there have been some very considered responses from other members of this forum. In your initial response I think you really missed the point that Derek made, and which I fully supported. Derek basically said that very useful X/C training can be done in a K13 performance type glider, even in this day when Duo's and DG 1000's are available in an increasing number of clubs.
Please note exactly what Derek added .... "(but don't go too far : )" And that is the very crux of the matter. The training has to be conducted within the performance envelope of the glider being used, and the conditions on the day. You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home airfield - Bacchus Marsh - that (most times), you fully expect to be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your airfield. ?????????? Most clubs have a milk run 100 k triangle that early X/C pilots can attempt. Usually the pilot is never more than 20 or 30 km from base. I suggest to you that on an average Oz day at Bacchus Marsh, not even a K13 is going to be out of range of the home base for very long on such a task. BTW, I know that 750 k flights have been done out of BM. Maybe the first or second ever done in Australia? Useful X/C training does NOT require the use of State of the Art gliders. Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. Richard Frawley, I am staggered after reading your post. Just as Derek covered the early training situation in a low (by current standards), performance glider in one line , you seem to have covered in a very few words, the entire guts of the situation. Well done indeed. I suggest to the GFA Board that your post is incorporated (spelling aside), into the relevant GFA manual. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of rolf a. buelter Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015 1:18 PM To: aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Dear Gary, I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice. To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if you prefer not to: How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24 months? How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider? How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer? How many ended in an out landing? Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger. With kindest Regards - Rolf > From: gstev...@bigpond.com > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100 > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots > > Hi Derek, > Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done. > > As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3 hours. > > There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot until this exercise is done. > > Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal (almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed. > > Gary > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock > Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM > To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals > > You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) ) > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD > Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 6:02 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals > > >>the GFA pilot training programme for more cross-country exposure during the ab-initio stage. > > Who said that! > > If only that happened more during training. IMHO, that's the single most important thing for a club to do when trying to make the conversion from student pilot to addicted and committed flyer. Having done enough HG flying to know what I was up for, the endless circuit training did not kill my enthusiasm but it can. > > My son said at one point that he was wondering what it was all about until he got to cloud base on day. and I don't think anyone ever took him XC during training. > > I have tried to persuade our club to stop the clock and some point and say to students at some point, "this is not being charged for. we're going to fly somewhere for an hour to show you why we all do it." > > I'm sure it would make a big difference to the number of pilots who drop out after going solo. But then we don't have something like the DG which would make getting home more likely than in a Grob or K21 > :-) > > D > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4273/9029 - Release Date: 01/31/15 > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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