[Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
Ulrich,
That is beautifully written, and so true.
Your comment on flying with a wedge tail eagle reminds me of a chance encounter
I once had in a thermal with a gaggle of 5 Wedge Tailed Eagles,at a place now
long gone, called Bowling Green [Ingo Renner used it as a TP for a very
successful 100 km triangle world record attempt, many years ago] in southern
NSW.
[Apart from that one encounter, and over a period of more than 30 years
gliding, I have never seen more than two eagles together on the wing before or
since, and even then, never in a gaggle.]
I joined their gaggle just slightly above them (they did not scatter on my
approach), and thus I was able to observe them at very close quarters. I noted
there was quite a difference in the size of the birds [was this some sort of
family?], but the one thing that has stayed with me to this very day is the
differentiation in markings of these birds. From above, it was very obvious
that each bird had totally different upper surface wing markings. Why has this
not been recorded in the "definifitative" texts? It is very obvious: No one (to
my knowledge), had ever observed and reported on this phenomenon of a wedge
tailed eagle gaggle (family?) from above.
Moving on.
In what now seems to be almost another life, I had (quite by chance), the
opportunity to observe the Wandering Albatross (Diomeda exulans), totally free
in its natural environment in the middle of the Southern Ocean. David
Attenborough has done a definitive photo study on this " the most studied of
birds" but unfortunately I did not find the link to his doco on the subject, so
that I might post it here. I suggest that if you have any interest in soaring,
you follow this up. I am not sure if it was mentioned in the doco, but these
birds can potentially live for at least 50 years. In most cases they mate for
life. The major threat to their lives is the hooks on "long line" fishing
systems. They go for the bait, get snagged by the hook, and drown.
Let me make some points and ask some questions:
Firstly, a personal statement - despite the amount of research that has been
done, I suspect that there are further surprises when it comes to considering
the many aspects of the Wandering Albatross.
It is suggested in the literature that their glide ratio is about 22:1. How was
this derived and by whom?
>From observation, I found that each and every bird has its own unique
>markings, and was therefore instantly recognisable.
It is total nonsense to believe that any Albatross flies for ever, and does not
settle quite comfortably on the surface of the ocean below.
The folding of all that wing (up to 4 m span), is something that has to be seen
to be believed.{There is potentially a possible commercial/military payoff
here.}
These birds are masters of dynamic soaring.
Ingo proposed and demonstrated (many years ago), that under a specifically
defined set of conditions, dynamic soaring is possible for gliding pilots. As
far as I know this has never been followed up.
If you think you are good, do you think you can better soar than a Wandering
Albatross?
Regards,
Gary
- Original Message -
From: Ulrich Stauss
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport
Hi Andrew,
any chance of involving the family in your flying adventures? It would
probably mean sacrificing a little of your own flying and a somewhat greater
financial burden but it can pay off big time further down the track. With 3
kids and a wife who gets airsick easily I know what it's like, believe me. I
was 39 when I (re)started gliding, my oldest was 11. I made sure that every day
I flew they also had at least a flight, first with someone else and after I got
my pax rating with me. I was lucky that at the time there was another family
with young kids at our club and the kids could play and ride their bikes
together while I went on my early cross-country ventures. If they hadn't had a
flight when (if) I came back they got a flight if they still wanted (which they
usually did, especially my daughter who couldn't get enough of the
"roller-coaster").
Family holidays since then often involved gliding - but not exclusively. If
so the rule was there had to be fun for everyone. Most gliding clubs and their
surroundings have something to offer - sometimes you just have to look a bit
harder or be a little creative.
The rewards?
The unforgettable flights I have been able to share with my wife (who
initially was quite scared and still is challenged by motion sickness) - flying
in formation with a pair of wedgetail eagles who like us enjoyed a spectacular
sunset together in smooth ridge lift, (out)landing at Wilpena airstrip in the
Flinders Ranges, checking out secluded Murray River beaches from the air and
the next day swimming and basking in the s
Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
Ingo proposed and demonstrated (many years ago), that under a specifically defined set of conditions, dynamic soaring is possible for gliding pilots. As far as I know this has never been followed up. If you think you are good, do you think you can better soar than a Wandering Albatross? Gary, There are some youtube videos of RC models dynamic soaring rather impressively in the lee of a hilltop. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
I was fortunate to see Paul MacCready give a lecture on dynamic soaring at an SSA convention several years ago, but it seemed a fantasy. Many things MacCready worked on were considered fantasy until he proved them possible. There are a few hills near home where R/C dynamic soaring can be done in the right conditions. It takes the right slope on the lee side to get a good wind shear. The basics: Pull up into the wind shear, dive downwind, gain energy in both maneuvers. The flight path is roughly a circle paralleling the lee slope. Most of those R/C flights are done at altitudes and attitudes we wouldn't dare. Many Gs are pulled, which is much easier with the pilot on the ground. After the dive, there's a turn towards the hill at 200+MPH. With a pilot on board, parachutes would be less useful than nappies. Look up Joe Wurts or Parker Mountain for some interesting videos and R/C D-S'ing background. The USAF Test Pilot School tested dynamic soaring over Rogers Dry Lake, nowhere near a hill. It's old enough news now that I should ask "Forger" for images or video of that project if he attends the Experimental Sailplane Association workshop (and AS-W20 get-together... Gary, David, Peter, et al) this coming weekend in Tehachapi. The project involved lots of telemetry, extra sensors on the Blanik, and a tablet PC in the cockpit displaying wind shear. Jim There are some youtube videos of RC models dynamic soaring rather impressively in the lee of a hilltop. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
At Szeged last month Loek Boermans [spelling?], chairman of OSTIV mentioned
that they were researching Albatrosses.
Also did a talk on the new Open Class gliders, Antares 23M, Concordia [28M and
62kg/m2!], and the new Schemmp Hirth "Quintus!"
Tom
--- On Mon, 30/8/10, Gary Stevenson wrote:
From: Gary Stevenson
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
To: usta...@internode.on.net, "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
Australia."
Received: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 4:25 AM
#yiv1277709515 {
FONT-FAMILY:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px;}
Ulrich,
That is beautifully written, and so true.
Your comment on flying with a wedge tail eagle reminds me
of a chance encounter I once had in a thermal with a gaggle of 5 Wedge Tailed
Eagles,at a place now long gone, called Bowling Green [Ingo Renner used it
as a TP for a very successful 100 km triangle world record attempt, many years
ago] in southern NSW.
[Apart from that one encounter, and over a period of more than
30 years gliding, I have never seen more than two eagles together on the
wing before or since, and even then, never in a gaggle.]
I joined their gaggle just slightly above them (they did
not scatter on my approach), and thus I was able to observe them at very close
quarters. I noted there was quite a difference in the size of the birds
[was this some sort of family?], but the one thing that has stayed with me
to this very day is the differentiation in markings of these birds. From
above, it was very obvious that each bird had totally different upper surface
wing markings. Why has this not been recorded in the
"definifitative" texts? It is very obvious: No one (to my knowledge),
had ever observed and reported on this phenomenon of a wedge tailed
eagle gaggle (family?) from above.
Moving on.
In what now seems to be almost another life, I had (quite
by chance), the opportunity to observe the Wandering Albatross
(Diomeda exulans), totally free in its natural
environment in the middle of the Southern Ocean. David Attenborough has
done a definitive photo study on this " the most studied of birds" but
unfortunately I did not find the link to his doco on the subject, so
that I might post it here. I suggest that if you have any interest in
soaring, you follow this up. I am not sure if it was mentioned in the doco, but
these birds can potentially live for at least 50 years. In most cases
they mate for life. The major threat to their lives is the hooks on
"long line" fishing systems. They go for the bait, get snagged by the
hook, and drown.
Let me make some points and ask some
questions:
Firstly, a personal statement - despite the amount of
research that has been done, I suspect that there are further
surprises when it comes to considering the many aspects of the
Wandering Albatross.
It is suggested in the literature that their glide ratio
is about 22:1. How was this derived and by whom?
From observation, I found that each and every bird has its own
unique markings, and was therefore instantly recognisable.
It is total nonsense to believe that any Albatross flies for
ever, and does not settle quite comfortably on the surface of the ocean
below.
The folding of all that wing (up to 4 m span), is
something that has to be seen to be believed.{There is potentially a
possible commercial/military payoff here.}
These birds are masters of dynamic soaring.
Ingo proposed and demonstrated (many years ago), that under a
specifically defined set of conditions, dynamic soaring is possible for gliding
pilots. As far as I know this has never been followed up.
If you think you are good, do you think you can better soar
than a Wandering Albatross?
Regards,
Gary
- Original Message -
From:
Ulrich Stauss
To: Discussion of issues relating
to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:26
PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a
movement - start of a sport
Hi Andrew,
any chance of involving the family in your flying adventures? It would
probably mean sacrificing a little of your own flying and a somewhat greater
financial burden but it can pay off big time further down the track. With 3
kids and a wife who gets airsick easily I know what it's like, believe me. I
was 39 when I (re)started gliding, my oldest was 11. I made sure that every
day I flew they also had at least a flight, first with someone else and after
I got my pax rating with me. I was lucky that at the time there was another
family with young kids at our club and the kids could play and ride their
bikes together while I went on my early cross-country ventures. If they
hadn't
had a flight when (if) I came back they got a flight if they still wanted
(which they usually did, especially my daughter who couldn't get enough of
the
"roller-coaster").
Family hol
Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
At 10:11 AM 30/08/2010, you wrote: At Szeged last month Loek Boermans [spelling?], chairman of OSTIV mentioned that they were researching Albatrosses. Also did a talk on the new Open Class gliders, Antares 23M, Concordia [28M and 62kg/m2!], and the new Schemmp Hirth "Quintus!" Tom --- So tell us more about the "Quintus". Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
23M, high aspect ratio, about 58kg/m2, same wings as Antares23M except for swept up outer section and Maughmer winglets, new Schemmp fuse. Should be best Open Class glider for our conditions [until AS use Concordia as new AS?3?.] Tom --- On Mon, 30/8/10, Mike Borgelt wrote: From: Mike Borgelt Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." Received: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 11:55 AM At 10:11 AM 30/08/2010, you wrote: >At Szeged last month Loek Boermans [spelling?], chairman of OSTIV >mentioned that they were researching Albatrosses. >Also did a talk on the new Open Class gliders, Antares 23M, >Concordia [28M and 62kg/m2!], and the new Schemmp Hirth "Quintus!" >Tom > >--- So tell us more about the "Quintus". Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
I have appreciated the accounts of the activities of our feathered friends.
One day several years ago I was able to climb up through the Foehn Gap of the
Stirling Range wave. At 7000ft I was 'on top' with only the dark slot below and
the rest the top of a bright sunlit cloud deck. Still in the wave and near
10,000ft two black dots appeared.. eagles heading the other way! Turning at the
end of my beat I met them again on the way back. I have rarely felt such an
affinity with nature as I did at the time..
I suppose they got up there the same way as I did, ie ridge as high as possible
then downwind to the wave.
I've not been able to find any accounts of a similar nature..
Cheers
On 30/08/2010 1:25 AM, Gary Stevenson wrote:
Ulrich,
That is beautifully written, and so true.
Your comment on flying with a wedge tail eagle reminds me of a chance
encounter I once had in a thermal with a gaggle of 5 Wedge Tailed Eagles,at a
place now long gone, called Bowling Green [Ingo Renner used it as a TP for a
very successful 100 km triangle world record attempt, many years ago] in
southern NSW.
[Apart from that one encounter, and over a period of more than 30 years
gliding, I have never seen more than two eagles together on the wing before or
since, and even then, never in a gaggle.]
I joined their gaggle just slightly above them (they did not scatter on my
approach), and thus I was able to observe them at very close quarters. I noted
there was quite a difference in the size of the birds [was this some sort of
family?], but the one thing that has stayed with me to this very day is the
differentiation in markings of these birds. From above, it was very obvious
that each bird had totally different upper surface wing markings. Why has this
not been recorded in the "definifitative" texts? It is very obvious: No one
(to my knowledge), had ever observed and reported on this phenomenon of a
wedge tailed eagle gaggle (family?) from above.
Moving on.
In what now seems to be almost another life, I had (quite by chance), the
opportunity to observe the Wandering Albatross (/Diomeda exulans/), totally
free in its natural environment in the middle of the Southern Ocean. David
Attenborough has done a definitive photo study on this " the most studied of
birds" but unfortunately I did not find the link to his doco on the subject,
so that I might post it here. I suggest that if you have any interest in
soaring, you follow this up. I am not sure if it was mentioned in the doco,
but these birds can potentially live for at least 50 years. In most cases
they mate for life. The major threat to their lives is the hooks on "long
line" fishing systems. They go for the bait, get snagged by the hook, and drown.
Let me make some points and ask some questions:
Firstly, a personal statement - despite the amount of research that has been
done, I suspect that there are further surprises when it comes to considering
the many aspects of the Wandering Albatross.
It is suggested in the literature that their glide ratio is about 22:1. How
was this derived and by whom?
From observation, I found that each and every bird has its own unique
markings, and was therefore instantly recognisable.
It is total nonsense to believe that any Albatross flies for ever, and does
not settle quite comfortably on the surface of the ocean below.
The folding of all that wing (up to 4 m span), is something that has to be
seen to be believed.{There is potentially a possible commercial/military
payoff here.}
These birds are masters of dynamic soaring.
Ingo proposed and demonstrated (many years ago), that under a specifically
defined set of conditions, dynamic soaring is possible for gliding pilots. As
far as I know this has never been followed up.
If you think you are good, do you think you can better soar than a Wandering
Albatross?
Regards,
Gary
- Original Message -
*From:* Ulrich Stauss
*To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
*Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:26 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport
Hi Andrew,
any chance of involving the family in your flying adventures? It would
probably mean sacrificing a little of your own flying and a somewhat
greater financial burden but it can pay off big time further down the
track. With 3 kids and a wife who gets airsick easily I know what it's
like, believe me. I was 39 when I (re)started gliding, my oldest was 11. I
made sure that every day I flew they also had at least a flight, first
with someone else and after I got my pax rating with me. I was lucky that
at the time there was another family with young kids at our club and the
kids could play and ride their bikes together while I went on my early
cross-country ventures. If they hadn't had a flight when (if) I came b
