Re: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

[Brad Peczka]

I run a fleet of the APC ATSes - some of which are coming on 10 years service - 
with no noted issues beyond some caveats in the firmware update process.


In the absence of details on the error the UPSes threw, the original issue 
sounds like a faulty device.


Eaton are a good alternative but there's certainly nothing wrong with the APC 
units.


Regards,

-Brad.



From: AusNOG  on behalf of Nicholas Hobbs 

Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 2:53 PM
To: Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT); ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

Hi Rhys,

We run a number (~6 or so) of the APC ATS' for some of our critical (but only 1 
PSU) gear with no issues.
We did however have one that was faulty from new that switched between A&B 
feeds a bit randomly and was replaced because there was no reason it should 
have been switching.

Have you called APC to try and troubleshoot the issue?
I'm not sure how the ATS could trip the UPS/Breakers as there should only ever 
be one active circuit unless there's a fault or overload condition.
What size UPS' are behind the ATS? 3000VA or so?

Nick


Nicholas Hobbs
Chief Technology Officer
Epworth HealthCare
Phone:

(03) 9426 8840

Fax:

(03) 9097 0062

Mobile:

0417 438 322


epworth.org.au

[Epworth Logo]
From: Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) [mailto:r...@latrobeit.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 2:19 PM
To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
Subject: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

Hi Guys

We have a very small server room with one rack drawing around 8 amps.
I thought I was clever and installed an APC ATS to run the kit that only has 
single feel power input.

Well its been a disaster, final straw was 4am today when it caused both UPS's 
to error and trip all breakers.
Bypassing the ATS fixed it.

I'm thinking of abandoning the ATS idea or trying another brand like Eaton

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Rhys






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Re: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

[Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)]

Thanks for that
I'm thinking faulty unit

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Aug 2018, at 5:51 pm, Brad Peczka 
mailto:b...@bradpeczka.com>> wrote:


I run a fleet of the APC ATSes - some of which are coming on 10 years service - 
with no noted issues beyond some caveats in the firmware update process.


In the absence of details on the error the UPSes threw, the original issue 
sounds like a faulty device.


Eaton are a good alternative but there's certainly nothing wrong with the APC 
units.


Regards,

-Brad.



From: AusNOG 
mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net>> on 
behalf of Nicholas Hobbs 
mailto:nicholas.ho...@epworth.org.au>>
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 2:53 PM
To: Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT); 
ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

Hi Rhys,

We run a number (~6 or so) of the APC ATS' for some of our critical (but only 1 
PSU) gear with no issues.
We did however have one that was faulty from new that switched between A&B 
feeds a bit randomly and was replaced because there was no reason it should 
have been switching.

Have you called APC to try and troubleshoot the issue?
I'm not sure how the ATS could trip the UPS/Breakers as there should only ever 
be one active circuit unless there's a fault or overload condition.
What size UPS' are behind the ATS? 3000VA or so?

Nick


Nicholas Hobbs
Chief Technology Officer
Epworth HealthCare
Phone:

(03) 9426 8840

Fax:

(03) 9097 0062

Mobile:

0417 438 322


epworth.org.au


From: Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) [mailto:r...@latrobeit.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 2:19 PM
To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
Subject: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

Hi Guys

We have a very small server room with one rack drawing around 8 amps.
I thought I was clever and installed an APC ATS to run the kit that only has 
single feel power input.

Well its been a disaster, final straw was 4am today when it caused both UPS's 
to error and trip all breakers.
Bypassing the ATS fixed it.

I'm thinking of abandoning the ATS idea or trying another brand like Eaton

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Rhys






This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain information that
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copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received
this e-mail in error please notify the sender immediately by return
e-mail and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. The views
expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Epworth
HealthCare. Epworth does not warrant that the integrity of the
communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of
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Re: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation

[Bradley Amm]

Would my DC provider (NextDC) have any issues with me using the ATS linked
above. Trying to get our provider supply dual power supply NTU is becoming
a hassle.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:

> Thanks for that
> I’m thinking faulty unit
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 5:51 pm, Brad Peczka  wrote:
>
> I run a fleet of the APC ATSes - some of which are coming on 10 years
> service - with no noted issues beyond some caveats in the firmware
> update process.
>
>
> In the absence of details on the error the UPSes threw, the original issue
> sounds like a faulty device.
>
>
> Eaton are a good alternative but there's certainly nothing wrong with the
> APC units.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -Brad.
>
>
> --
> *From:* AusNOG  on behalf of Nicholas
> Hobbs 
> *Sent:* Monday, 13 August 2018 2:53 PM
> *To:* Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT); ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] ATS recommendation
>
>
> Hi Rhys,
>
>
>
> We run a number (~6 or so) of the APC ATS’ for some of our critical (but
> only 1 PSU) gear with no issues.
>
> We did however have one that was faulty from new that switched between A&B
> feeds a bit randomly and was replaced because there was no reason it should
> have been switching.
>
>
>
> Have you called APC to try and troubleshoot the issue?
>
> I’m not sure how the ATS could trip the UPS/Breakers as there should only
> ever be one active circuit unless there’s a fault or overload condition.
>
> What size UPS’ are behind the ATS? 3000VA or so?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> *Nicholas* *Hobbs*
> *Chief Technology Officer*
> *Epworth HealthCare*
>
> Phone:
>
> (03) 9426 8840
>
> Fax:
>
> (03) 9097 0062
>
> Mobile:
>
> 0417 438 322
>
>
> epworth.org.au 
>
> 
>
> *From:* Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) [mailto:r...@latrobeit.com.au
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, 13 August 2018 2:19 PM
> *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* [AusNOG] ATS recommendation
>
>
>
> Hi Guys
>
>
>
> We have a very small server room with one rack drawing around 8 amps.
>
> I thought I was clever and installed an APC ATS to run the kit that only
> has single feel power input.
>
>
>
> Well its been a disaster, final straw was 4am today when it caused both
> UPS’s to error and trip all breakers.
>
> Bypassing the ATS fixed it.
>
>
>
> I’m thinking of abandoning the ATS idea or trying another brand like Eaton
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rhys
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain information that
> is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are not the intended
> recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received
> this e-mail in error please notify the sender immediately by return
> e-mail and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. The views
> expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
> where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Epworth
> HealthCare. Epworth does not warrant that the integrity of the
> communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of
> errors, virus, interception or interference. All e-mail sent to Epworth
> HealthCare may be inspected and used by Epworth HealthCare for any lawful
> purpose. Epworth HealthCare policy prohibiting transmission of
> inappropriate material to its e-mail addresses is strictly enforced.
>
>
> ___
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>


-- 
Bradley Amm
0420 501 801
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Re: [AusNOG] Strange NBN reports from Baldivis area (WA)

[Tom Storey]

The ironing is delicious.

On 1 August 2018 at 01:36, Mark Newton  wrote:

> I’m almost delighted to see Telstra experiencing the same frustrating
> issues with wholesalers that everyone else has been forced to deal with for
> the last 20 years :D
>
>  -  mark
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Re: [AusNOG] Strange NBN reports from Baldivis area (WA)

[Mark Newton]

Only if you use lemon-scented fabric softener.

   - mark


> On 13 Aug 2018, at 10:32 pm, Tom Storey  wrote:
> 
> The ironing is delicious.
> 
>> On 1 August 2018 at 01:36, Mark Newton  wrote:
>> I’m almost delighted to see Telstra experiencing the same frustrating issues 
>> with wholesalers that everyone else has been forced to deal with for the 
>> last 20 years :D
>> 
>>  -  mark
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[AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[I]

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/consultations/assistance-and-access-bill-2018





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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Rob Thomas]

I hate to be the ones COMPLIMENTING the Gumbyment, but it's nowhere
near as bad as I thought they were going to make it. It looks like
they've actually spoken to some people who udnerstand crypto.

The important bits seem to be on Pages 8 and 9 here -
https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/consultations/Documents/explanatory-document.pdf
- where they explain what they can do.

The only SLIGHTLY worrying bit is the second last part on Page 9 -
They can compel people into "Modifying or substituting a target
service", which seems worryingly vague.

I haven't read through all of it, and - of course - the devil will be
in the details.  But, it's not bad, all things considered.

--Rob

On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 at 12:40, I  wrote:
>
> https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/consultations/assistance-and-access-bill-2018
> ___
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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Robert Hudson]

My reading isn't as positive.  tl;dr - it's too vague and open to
intepretation.

>From the Explanatory Document (
https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/consultations/Documents/explanatory-document.pdf
):

" Allow the Attorney-General to issue a technical capability notice,
requiring a designated communications provider to build a new capability
that will enable them to give assistance as specified in the legislation to
ASIO and interception agencies. A technical capability notice cannot
require a provider to build or implement a capability to remove electronic
protection, such as encryption. The Attorney-General must be satisfied that
any requirements are reasonable, proportionate, practicable and technically
feasible. The Attorney-General must also consult with the affected provider
prior to issuing a notice, and may also determine procedures and
arrangements relating to requests for technical capability notices. "

So, our government is proposing that it should be able to compel
organisations to build capability into their products that allows the
various designated interception agencies to access data.  The government
can't required that they turn off existing electronic protections - but it
does not say that they cannot add back-doors, AND it relies on the AG's
satisfaction (remembering that s/he's the one issuing the "technical
capability notice") that the requirements are reasonable, proportionate...
etc.

I'm still not sure how we plan to force our will on overseas companies.
I'm also not convinced that the protections against back-doors are strong
enough, particularly when it appears that the AG gets to decide what's
appropriate and what isn't, particularly when the various requests and
notices are issued by the AG to start with, and the AG will clearly have a
vested interest in whatever they want being done as requested.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 at 13:01, Rob Thomas  wrote:

> I hate to be the ones COMPLIMENTING the Gumbyment, but it's nowhere
> near as bad as I thought they were going to make it. It looks like
> they've actually spoken to some people who udnerstand crypto.
>
> The important bits seem to be on Pages 8 and 9 here -
>
> https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/consultations/Documents/explanatory-document.pdf
> - where they explain what they can do.
>
> The only SLIGHTLY worrying bit is the second last part on Page 9 -
> They can compel people into "Modifying or substituting a target
> service", which seems worryingly vague.
>
> I haven't read through all of it, and - of course - the devil will be
> in the details.  But, it's not bad, all things considered.
>
> --Rob
>
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 at 12:40, I  wrote:
> >
> >
> https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/consultations/assistance-and-access-bill-2018
> > ___
> > AusNOG mailing list
> > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> ___
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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Paul Julian]

I think it’s easy to read this, just re-read the bollocks that we have already 
had to comply with and it should match pretty close.
 
The summary I get from it is that they can’t access encrypted stuff now so they 
want everybody to make it so they can, but they can’t say that they will force 
people to make it so, just that they would really like it to be so.
If it costs you money to make it so then they may pay you for your efforts, or 
maybe they won’t. The only real thing that is concreate in this proposal is 
that the AG will be the only one to make requests.
 
I mean seriously, how does an ISP build capability to be able to view encrypted 
communications that traverse their network ?
 
This is typical of the recent few years of legislation involving the 
communications industry, vague enough for somebody to enforce it somehow, but 
still vague enough for people to not really know what they are expected to 
provide and how.
 
I think somebody in our government gets paid to create acronyms personally, 
there is a new swag of them in this proposal, just like the last ones.
 
Paul
 
From: AusNOG  On Behalf Of Robert Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2018 1:31 PM
To: xro...@gmail.com
Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill
 
My reading isn't as positive.  tl;dr - it's too vague and open to intepretation.
 
>From the Explanatory Document 
>(https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/consultations/Documents/explanatory-document.pdf):
 
" Allow the Attorney-General to issue a technical capability notice, requiring 
a designated communications provider to build a new capability that will enable 
them to give assistance as specified in the legislation to ASIO and 
interception agencies. A technical capability notice cannot require a provider 
to build or implement a capability to remove electronic protection, such as 
encryption. The Attorney-General must be satisfied that any requirements are 
reasonable, proportionate, practicable and technically feasible. The 
Attorney-General must also consult with the affected provider prior to issuing 
a notice, and may also determine procedures and arrangements relating to 
requests for technical capability notices. "
 
So, our government is proposing that it should be able to compel organisations 
to build capability into their products that allows the various designated 
interception agencies to access data.  The government can't required that they 
turn off existing electronic protections - but it does not say that they cannot 
add back-doors, AND it relies on the AG's satisfaction (remembering that s/he's 
the one issuing the "technical capability notice") that the requirements are 
reasonable, proportionate... etc.
 
I'm still not sure how we plan to force our will on overseas companies.  I'm 
also not convinced that the protections against back-doors are strong enough, 
particularly when it appears that the AG gets to decide what's appropriate and 
what isn't, particularly when the various requests and notices are issued by 
the AG to start with, and the AG will clearly have a vested interest in 
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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Mark Andrews]

A quick reading of the exposure bill would allow for a scenario like this:

Force a developer to modify the app to send a encrypted copy of the traffic to
a given address and to issue a new version triggering a “update available”
notification. 

Force the store to return the modified version of the app to specific accounts.
Both versions of the application are signed etc.

Note this does NOT disable encryption.  Both the developer and the store fall
under 6 of Designated communications provider and eligible activities.

Alternatively just update the app so that traffic to specific accounts/numbers 
is
mirrored.

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742  INTERNET: ma...@isc.org

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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Alex Samad]

I'm sure nothing could go wrong there...

A

On 14 August 2018 at 14:11, Mark Andrews  wrote:

> A quick reading of the exposure bill would allow for a scenario like this:
>
> Force a developer to modify the app to send a encrypted copy of the
> traffic to
> a given address and to issue a new version triggering a “update available”
> notification.
>
> Force the store to return the modified version of the app to specific
> accounts.
> Both versions of the application are signed etc.
>
> Note this does NOT disable encryption.  Both the developer and the store
> fall
> under 6 of Designated communications provider and eligible activities.
>
> Alternatively just update the app so that traffic to specific
> accounts/numbers is
> mirrored.
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742  INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
>
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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Mark Delany]

> Force a developer to modify the app

Most app developers are not under Australian jurisdictions. Especially
so for app developers who specialize in dark-web comms.

With 20+ million programmers out there, it's not that hard to find
someone to develop an app that is immune to Australian government
influence. It doesn't even need to be very good so it's hardly an
elite programming activity.

For an additional fee they will probably install the app on a burner
phone and ship it to you direct. Heck, it's probably not even illegal
to run this as a business in a large number of other jurisdictions so
it's strictly a business proposition responding to a new market
created by this legislation.


Mark.
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[AusNOG] IINET MTA - Customer Blocked

[Cameron Murray]

Guys,

Any IINET MTA onlist? We have a customers site who is unable to access
pop.netspace.net.au on 110

tia
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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Chris Ford]

> I hate to be the ones COMPLIMENTING the Gumbyment, but it's nowhere near
> as bad as I thought they were going to make it. It looks like they've actually
> spoken to some people who udnerstand crypto.

Read the new Section 317E Listed Acts or Things (page 16 of the exposure 
draft). It lists the "acts or things" that a provider can be asked for under a 
request or notice. It's pretty bad.

(a) removing one or more forms of electronic protection that are or were 
applied by, or on behalf of, the provider; or

(c) installing, maintaining, testing or using software or equipment; or

(e) facilitating or assisting access to whichever of the following
are the subject of eligible activities of the provider:
(ii) customer equipment;
(viii) software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with a 
listed carriage service;
(ix) software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with an 
electronic service;
(x) software that is capable of being installed on a computer, or other 
equipment, that is, or is likely to be,
 connected to a telecommunications network; or

(f) assisting with the testing, modification, development or maintenance of a 
technology or capability; or

(h) modifying, or facilitating the modification of, any of the characteristics 
of a service provided by the designated communications provider; or

(i) substituting, or facilitating the substitution of, a service provided by 
the designated communications provider for:
(i) another service provided by the provider; or
(ii) a service provided by another designated communications provider; or

(j) an act or thing done to conceal the fact that any thing has been done 
covertly in the performance of a Function, or the exercise of a power


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Re: [AusNOG] Dutton decryption bill

[Paul Julian]

Equals pretty much anything they want

Paul

On 14 Aug 2018, at 2:59 pm, Chris Ford  wrote:

>> I hate to be the ones COMPLIMENTING the Gumbyment, but it's nowhere near
>> as bad as I thought they were going to make it. It looks like they've 
>> actually
>> spoken to some people who udnerstand crypto.
> 
> Read the new Section 317E Listed Acts or Things (page 16 of the exposure 
> draft). It lists the "acts or things" that a provider can be asked for under 
> a request or notice. It's pretty bad.
> 
> (a) removing one or more forms of electronic protection that are or were 
> applied by, or on behalf of, the provider; or
> 
> (c) installing, maintaining, testing or using software or equipment; or
> 
> (e) facilitating or assisting access to whichever of the following
> are the subject of eligible activities of the provider:
>(ii) customer equipment;
>(viii) software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with a 
> listed carriage service;
>(ix) software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with an 
> electronic service;
>(x) software that is capable of being installed on a computer, or other 
> equipment, that is, or is likely to be,
> connected to a telecommunications network; or
> 
> (f) assisting with the testing, modification, development or maintenance of a 
> technology or capability; or
> 
> (h) modifying, or facilitating the modification of, any of the 
> characteristics of a service provided by the designated communications 
> provider; or
> 
> (i) substituting, or facilitating the substitution of, a service provided by 
> the designated communications provider for:
>(i) another service provided by the provider; or
>(ii) a service provided by another designated communications provider; or
> 
> (j) an act or thing done to conceal the fact that any thing has been done 
> covertly in the performance of a Function, or the exercise of a power
> 
> 
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