Re: Benefits of using Message style WS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Joshua, The advantages of using message instead of document oriented services are usually subtle. Most of the time is better to just call them differences :-) The main advantage you will find is flexibility: - - No data binding -- no restrictions from the data binding framework - - No uniqueness constraints -- operations can be overloaded - - No pre-parsing -- you can even process requests the server does not officially support (for example, RPC/encoded in Axis 2) Additionally, in certain cases, the performance overhead associated to the XML parsing and conversion to and from beans can be an important factor. If the operation logic is simple enough, using Raw XML may significantly improve the scalability of your service. Take into account that the flexibility of message services is also a disadvantage. Web service interoperability is very important today, and raw XML can break it very easily. If you choose this way, you should take care of these aspects. Another important factor is that using raw XML requires different expertise from your programmers. This may be a disadvantage, or not. It depends on the case. Finally, as Brennan said, your service should still be described through a WSDL descriptor. Indeed, in the case of message services, the WSDL becomes even more important than ever, because Axis will never be able to generate it from your code, and your programmers will need to know what is the expected syntax of the service inputs and outputs. HTH, Rodrigo Ruiz Joshua White wrote: Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua - -- - --- GRID SYSTEMS, S.A. Rodrigo Ruiz Parc Bit - Edificio 17 Research Coordinator 07121 Palma de Mallorca Baleares - Spain Tel: +34 971 435 085 http://www.gridsystems.com/Fax: +34 971 435 082 - --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) iD8DBQFF5+s4p9m/F5UenDoRAs+vAJ42rgJUR4JfQWhX4OxCg3a3eFHwpACfbBqZ VQBH/T/oegGfMH+Fz2G3WuY= =j9Ac -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Benefits of using Message style WS
Rodrigo, Thanks for the reply. I have not used message based web services before and I appreciate your patience with my questions. When using the message oriented web services, can you still put your own input/output schemas in the wsdl and validate against them? Obviously, you would be forced to write your own wsdl file. -Joshua On 3/2/07, Rodrigo Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Joshua, The advantages of using message instead of document oriented services are usually subtle. Most of the time is better to just call them differences :-) The main advantage you will find is flexibility: - - No data binding -- no restrictions from the data binding framework - - No uniqueness constraints -- operations can be overloaded - - No pre-parsing -- you can even process requests the server does not officially support (for example, RPC/encoded in Axis 2) Additionally, in certain cases, the performance overhead associated to the XML parsing and conversion to and from beans can be an important factor. If the operation logic is simple enough, using Raw XML may significantly improve the scalability of your service. Take into account that the flexibility of message services is also a disadvantage. Web service interoperability is very important today, and raw XML can break it very easily. If you choose this way, you should take care of these aspects. Another important factor is that using raw XML requires different expertise from your programmers. This may be a disadvantage, or not. It depends on the case. Finally, as Brennan said, your service should still be described through a WSDL descriptor. Indeed, in the case of message services, the WSDL becomes even more important than ever, because Axis will never be able to generate it from your code, and your programmers will need to know what is the expected syntax of the service inputs and outputs. HTH, Rodrigo Ruiz Joshua White wrote: Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua - -- - --- GRID SYSTEMS, S.A. Rodrigo Ruiz Parc Bit - Edificio 17 Research Coordinator 07121 Palma de Mallorca Baleares - Spain Tel: +34 971 435 085 http://www.gridsystems.com/Fax: +34 971 435 082 - --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) iD8DBQFF5+s4p9m/F5UenDoRAs+vAJ42rgJUR4JfQWhX4OxCg3a3eFHwpACfbBqZ VQBH/T/oegGfMH+Fz2G3WuY= =j9Ac -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Benefits of using Message style WS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yes, you can. And I would even say you *should*. Take into account that the wsdl is independent from the service code. The server will not use the wsdl, except for showing it to users sending requests of type ?wsdl. From the server point of view, the important piece is the server-config.wsdd file. But the server will not be able to show you a wsdl for a message service if you do not provide one. You can put whatever you want in your wsdl, but validation of requests will have to be done in your service code. Now you mention it, this can be seen as another advantage: If you use a databinding, the databinding framework will throw errors when the incoming request does not conform to what it expects. These errors are usually very generic, and not portable (each framework will have its own exception hierarchy), and what is worst, they are out of your control, because they appear before your code is invoked. If you use message style, you can use any validation engine you may want. And you can trap specific errors and provide better (and portable) information to the remote user. Just as a side note, Axis does not validate requests beyond bean construction. Just by checking conformance to a rich XSD, you will gain a lot in terms of request validation :-) Cheers, Rodrigo Joshua White wrote: Rodrigo, Thanks for the reply. I have not used message based web services before and I appreciate your patience with my questions. When using the message oriented web services, can you still put your own input/output schemas in the wsdl and validate against them? Obviously, you would be forced to write your own wsdl file. -Joshua On 3/2/07, *Rodrigo Ruiz* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Joshua, The advantages of using message instead of document oriented services are usually subtle. Most of the time is better to just call them differences :-) The main advantage you will find is flexibility: - No data binding -- no restrictions from the data binding framework - No uniqueness constraints -- operations can be overloaded - No pre-parsing -- you can even process requests the server does not officially support (for example, RPC/encoded in Axis 2) Additionally, in certain cases, the performance overhead associated to the XML parsing and conversion to and from beans can be an important factor. If the operation logic is simple enough, using Raw XML may significantly improve the scalability of your service. Take into account that the flexibility of message services is also a disadvantage. Web service interoperability is very important today, and raw XML can break it very easily. If you choose this way, you should take care of these aspects. Another important factor is that using raw XML requires different expertise from your programmers. This may be a disadvantage, or not. It depends on the case. Finally, as Brennan said, your service should still be described through a WSDL descriptor. Indeed, in the case of message services, the WSDL becomes even more important than ever, because Axis will never be able to generate it from your code, and your programmers will need to know what is the expected syntax of the service inputs and outputs. HTH, Rodrigo Ruiz Joshua White wrote: Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua - -- - --- GRID SYSTEMS, S.A. Rodrigo Ruiz Parc Bit - Edificio 17 Research Coordinator 07121 Palma de Mallorca[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baleares - Spain Tel: +34 971 435 085 http://www.gridsystems.com/Fax: +34 971 435 082 - --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) iD8DBQFF6CtJp9m/F5UenDoRAr0yAJ4lHrrCHePW1ydkDZbHTF4vAxQ0rQCeP4O3 ayDtL0YFqj+U7Na5LHi/8NE= =vIlv -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Benefits of using Message style WS
If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua
Re: Benefits of using Message style WS
Brennan, Thanks for the reply. I understand the value of the doc/literal wrapped style. I was hoping to go one step further though. Axis 1.X supports RPC, Document, Wrapped, and Message style services. I was hoping to determine the benefits of using Messsage style services over doc/literal wrapped. To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about Axis2 to know if Message style services are still supported. Have you used them? Do you know what the advantages are? Joshua On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- *From:* Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM *To:* axis-user@ws.apache.org *Subject:* Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua
RE: Benefits of using Message style WS
The Message style, as defined in Axis 1.x, is really just raw XML (no databinding). You would, of course, use this if you did not want Java - XML databinding. E.g., you want to do a transformation with XSL or XQuery, or do your own XML parsing, etc., etc. -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:19 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Brennan, Thanks for the reply. I understand the value of the doc/literal wrapped style. I was hoping to go one step further though. Axis 1.X supports RPC, Document, Wrapped, and Message style services. I was hoping to determine the benefits of using Messsage style services over doc/literal wrapped. To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about Axis2 to know if Message style services are still supported. Have you used them? Do you know what the advantages are? Joshua On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua
Re: Benefits of using Message style WS
If I understand the question correctly, then applying: -d databinding none To wsdl2java would be the way to do this in axis2. See: http://ws.apache.org/axis2/tools/1_1/CodegenToolReference.html HTH, Robert On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Message style, as defined in Axis 1.x, is really just raw XML (no databinding). You would, of course, use this if you did not want Java - XML databinding. E.g., you want to do a transformation with XSL or XQuery, or do your own XML parsing, etc., etc. -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:19 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Brennan, Thanks for the reply. I understand the value of the doc/literal wrapped style. I was hoping to go one step further though. Axis 1.X supports RPC, Document, Wrapped, and Message style services. I was hoping to determine the benefits of using Messsage style services over doc/literal wrapped. To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about Axis2 to know if Message style services are still supported. Have you used them? Do you know what the advantages are? Joshua On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Benefits of using Message style WS
Exactly. I am trying to determine if there is any benefit of creating a service this way. Are you still able to specify a schema for both your input/output arguments in the wsdl file if you send messages this way? -Josh On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Message style, as defined in Axis 1.x, is really just raw XML (no databinding). You would, of course, use this if you did not want Java - XML databinding. E.g., you want to do a transformation with XSL or XQuery, or do your own XML parsing, etc., etc. -Original Message- *From:* Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:19 PM *To:* axis-user@ws.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Brennan, Thanks for the reply. I understand the value of the doc/literal wrapped style. I was hoping to go one step further though. Axis 1.X supports RPC, Document, Wrapped, and Message style services. I was hoping to determine the benefits of using Messsage style services over doc/literal wrapped. To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about Axis2 to know if Message style services are still supported. Have you used them? Do you know what the advantages are? Joshua On 3/1/07, *Spies, Brennan* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- *From:* Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM *To:* axis-user@ws.apache.org *Subject:* Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua
RE: Benefits of using Message style WS
Yes. This is independent of your databinding choice. -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:46 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Exactly. I am trying to determine if there is any benefit of creating a service this way. Are you still able to specify a schema for both your input/output arguments in the wsdl file if you send messages this way? -Josh On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Message style, as defined in Axis 1.x, is really just raw XML (no databinding). You would, of course, use this if you did not want Java - XML databinding. E.g., you want to do a transformation with XSL or XQuery, or do your own XML parsing, etc., etc. -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:19 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Brennan, Thanks for the reply. I understand the value of the doc/literal wrapped style. I was hoping to go one step further though. Axis 1.X supports RPC, Document, Wrapped, and Message style services. I was hoping to determine the benefits of using Messsage style services over doc/literal wrapped. To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about Axis2 to know if Message style services are still supported. Have you used them? Do you know what the advantages are? Joshua On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua
RE: Benefits of using Message style WS
The Axis 1.x user's guide is using style in this context to refer to both the WSDL style and the databinding choice. The only difference then b/n Document and Message is that Message has no databinding. -Original Message- From: Spies, Brennan Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:49 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: RE: Benefits of using Message style WS Yes. This is independent of your databinding choice. -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:46 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Exactly. I am trying to determine if there is any benefit of creating a service this way. Are you still able to specify a schema for both your input/output arguments in the wsdl file if you send messages this way? -Josh On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Message style, as defined in Axis 1.x, is really just raw XML (no databinding). You would, of course, use this if you did not want Java - XML databinding. E.g., you want to do a transformation with XSL or XQuery, or do your own XML parsing, etc., etc. -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:19 PM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Benefits of using Message style WS Brennan, Thanks for the reply. I understand the value of the doc/literal wrapped style. I was hoping to go one step further though. Axis 1.X supports RPC, Document, Wrapped, and Message style services. I was hoping to determine the benefits of using Messsage style services over doc/literal wrapped. To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about Axis2 to know if Message style services are still supported. Have you used them? Do you know what the advantages are? Joshua On 3/1/07, Spies, Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have overloaded operations in WSDL, you cannot use doc/literal wrapped style. In the wrapped pattern, you require an element to have the same name as the operation, and you cannot have two elements with the same name in XML. Other than that, doc/lit wrapped has the nice advantage that it is the best of both worlds, having the operation name in the SOAP message but also the greater expressiveness of the document style. Good article here: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-whichwsdl/ If you are using Axis 2.0 with databinding, you may want to choose a databinding framework (such as JiBX) that supports the wrapped style. Brennan -Original Message- From: Joshua White [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:27 AM To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Benefits of using Message style WS Hello, I am having a hard time understanding the benefits of using a message style web service as opposed to a regular doc/lit wrapped service. Could someone please clarify this for me? Regards, Joshua
