Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Vultao/Carvalho in Ajuda Bretanha

['John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy]

Tomé Furtado and Luzia Carvalho are also my ancestors. She is also known as 
Luzia Vultão in the birth records of Lourenço (10 Aug 1690) and Margarida (25 
Feb 1689). Almost nothing is known of her parents, Manuel and Maria Vultão. We 
know that they were living in Bretanha in the years between 1652 and 1657 
because 3 other children were born to the couple during those years. 


Vultão is a very common name in those parts. Simão Dias Vultão is also my 
anestor. I have never found a common ancestor for any of these people that 
would tie all these Vultãos together. I am sorry that I cannot be of more help.

John Miranda Raposo



On Monday, June 23, 2014 9:24 PM, 'John C' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
 


Hello,

I am researching the family of Margarida Pimentel daughter of Tome Furtado and 
Lucia Carvalha in Ajuda Bretanha. I have learned about Tome's family but I am 
interested in the family of Lucia Carvalha. I learned her parents names were 
Manuel Carvalho and Maria Vultao. I am especially interested in Maria Vultao's 
ancestry. I found in Carlos Machado's genealogies a chart describing the 
Vultao's as being connected to the Vasconcelos family. This was the information.
Maria Vasconcelos married to Simao Dias Vultao 8/22/1596 Bretanha.
It also seems that Maria's brother Marcos Afonso Sousa may have married Simao's 
sister Brites Simao. 
I am wondering if these people connect to my line with Lucia Carvalho's mother 
Maria Vultao or if it is a different line?
Thanks!

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: I need some help reading record.

[Shirley Allegre]

Antonio married Angela Costa Leonardo, native Santa Antao, Sao Jorge island.  

He died 31 December 1992.

That's the best that I can do.  Shirley in CA
  - Original Message - 
  From: Edna Epps 
  To: Azores Genalogy Group 
  Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 8:05 PM
  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: I need some help reading record.


  Can someone help me read what is in the margin of this birth record: 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P95.html.
  It’s the one on the right side of the page, No 18 for Antonio.  I think the 
margin says he got married with Angelic (?) Costa ?. I am trying to make Lemos 
at the end of her name but it may be saying where she lived?? Looks like she 
was a native of Santa ? Island of Sao Jorge..then maybe it tells where the 
marriage was recorded in Horta and the marriage was 1-19-1991.  Then I think 
the 2nd note says Antonio died 12-31-1992 and looks like it’s recorded at Horta 
too???  Antonio’s mother is my Maternal Grandmother’s sister.  I can read the 
birth record,I just need some help with the tiny writing in the margin.

  Thanks in advance.
  Edna Lemos Epps.
  dave-e...@comcast.net
  Isaiah 30:18 "Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you; 
  He rises to show you compassion. For the Lord is a God
  of justice, Blessed are all who wait for Him"


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Vultao/Carvalho in Ajuda Bretanha

[Joanne Mercier]

Margarida Pimental is my 10th Great Grandmother but I have nothing past her 
parents Tome Furtado and Luiza Carvalho. I'd be interested in whatever you 
discover and I'm always willing to pass on my branch of the descendent tree so 
please keep me in the loop.  

John R - I also haven't forgotten about your kind offer to help with my missing 
links. Now that I'm finished with my latest round of job interviews I'll be in 
touch.  Thanks!

Joanne
Joanne Medeiros Grota Mercier
Researching Bretanha, Lagoa and Rabo de Peixe 


On Jun 24, 2014, at 6:14 AM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:

> Tomé Furtado and Luzia Carvalho are also my ancestors. She is also known as 
> Luzia Vultão in the birth records of Lourenço (10 Aug 1690) and Margarida (25 
> Feb 1689). Almost nothing is known of her parents, Manuel and Maria Vultão. 
> We know that they were living in Bretanha in the years between 1652 and 1657 
> because 3 other children were born to the couple during those years. 
> 
> Vultão is a very common name in those parts. Simão Dias Vultão is also my 
> anestor. I have never found a common ancestor for any of these people that 
> would tie all these Vultãos together. I am sorry that I cannot be of more 
> help.
> 
> John Miranda Raposo
> 
> 
> On Monday, June 23, 2014 9:24 PM, 'John C' via Azores Genealogy 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am researching the family of Margarida Pimentel daughter of Tome Furtado 
> and Lucia Carvalha in Ajuda Bretanha. I have learned about Tome's family but 
> I am interested in the family of Lucia Carvalha. I learned her parents names 
> were Manuel Carvalho and Maria Vultao. I am especially interested in Maria 
> Vultao's ancestry. I found in Carlos Machado's genealogies a chart describing 
> the Vultao's as being connected to the Vasconcelos family. This was the 
> information.
> Maria Vasconcelos married to Simao Dias Vultao 8/22/1596 Bretanha.
> It also seems that Maria's brother Marcos Afonso Sousa may have married 
> Simao's sister Brites Simao. 
> I am wondering if these people connect to my line with Lucia Carvalho's 
> mother Maria Vultao or if it is a different line?
> Thanks!
> -- 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Vultao/Carvalho in Ajuda Bretanha

[Joanne Mercier]

Oops...must make a correction...I'm actually related to Lourenço de Pimental  
who was the brother of Margarida and the gggrandfather of Antonia Augusta de 
Souza, my great grandmother.  I apologize for not quite having the hang of my 
new genealogy software.  Same basic branch but different off-shoot.

Joanne (whose not very good at the math...)


On Jun 24, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Joanne Mercier  wrote:

> Margarida Pimental is my 10th Great Grandmother but I have nothing past her 
> parents Tome Furtado and Luiza Carvalho. I'd be interested in whatever you 
> discover and I'm always willing to pass on my branch of the descendent tree 
> so please keep me in the loop.  
> 
> John R - I also haven't forgotten about your kind offer to help with my 
> missing links. Now that I'm finished with my latest round of job interviews 
> I'll be in touch.  Thanks!
> 
> Joanne
> Joanne Medeiros Grota Mercier
> Researching Bretanha, Lagoa and Rabo de Peixe 
> 
> 
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 6:14 AM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Tomé Furtado and Luzia Carvalho are also my ancestors. She is also known as 
>> Luzia Vultão in the birth records of Lourenço (10 Aug 1690) and Margarida 
>> (25 Feb 1689). Almost nothing is known of her parents, Manuel and Maria 
>> Vultão. We know that they were living in Bretanha in the years between 1652 
>> and 1657 because 3 other children were born to the couple during those 
>> years. 
>> 
>> Vultão is a very common name in those parts. Simão Dias Vultão is also my 
>> anestor. I have never found a common ancestor for any of these people that 
>> would tie all these Vultãos together. I am sorry that I cannot be of more 
>> help.
>> 
>> John Miranda Raposo
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, June 23, 2014 9:24 PM, 'John C' via Azores Genealogy 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am researching the family of Margarida Pimentel daughter of Tome Furtado 
>> and Lucia Carvalha in Ajuda Bretanha. I have learned about Tome's family but 
>> I am interested in the family of Lucia Carvalha. I learned her parents names 
>> were Manuel Carvalho and Maria Vultao. I am especially interested in Maria 
>> Vultao's ancestry. I found in Carlos Machado's genealogies a chart 
>> describing the Vultao's as being connected to the Vasconcelos family. This 
>> was the information.
>> Maria Vasconcelos married to Simao Dias Vultao 8/22/1596 Bretanha.
>> It also seems that Maria's brother Marcos Afonso Sousa may have married 
>> Simao's sister Brites Simao. 
>> I am wondering if these people connect to my line with Lucia Carvalho's 
>> mother Maria Vultao or if it is a different line?
>> Thanks!
>> -- 
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right 
>> that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
>> --- 
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Soccer in Azores (1915-1921)

[Antonio Roque]

Karen,

Portugal's national team did not play their first official game until 
December 8, 1921

http://www.fpf.pt/Sele%C3%A7%C3%B5es/Futebol/Masculino/Sele%C3%A7%C3%A3o-A/Hist%C3%B3ria

At that time I doubt if any players from the Azores would have made the 
national team
Could he have played for a select team in S. Miguel? that is the more 
likable scenery  

On Monday, June 23, 2014 9:57:38 PM UTC-4, Karen A (Medeiros) Huffman - 
Paso Robles, CA, USA wrote:

> I was told today by my father, this his father told him that he had played 
> on the National Soccer Team. My grandfather was Evaristo Rodrigues Roque 
> Medeiros b 22 Nov 1898. I would guess if he played it would be between 
> 1915-1921. He immigrated to the US in 1921 at 22 years of age from Sao 
> Pedro, Sao Miguel. 
>
> How would I go about finding out if there was a league then? If he was on 
> it? He could have been just "talking" himself up I don't know.
>
> Any direction for me would be appreciated!!
>
> Thanks, Karen Medeiros-Huffman :)
>
> -- 
> *Hugs and Blessings* from Karen Medeiros-Huffman in Paso Robles, CA USA
>
>
>
> *Searching my family branches from the Azores: Rodrigues, Roque, Medeiros 
> and Rogers from Sao Miguel. Costa and Silva from Treciera. *
>
>
> *Searching Germany: Schommer and Schaefer*
>
> *Searching Sweden:*
>
> *Anderson *
>  

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Rootsweb and the Azores GenWeb is back up

[Cheri Mello]

The Azores GenWeb (hosted on RootsWeb, an affiliate of Ancestry) is back up!
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/

-- 
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Benevides, Teves, Oliveira Pimentel (Sao Miguel island maybe; no time period)

[Cheri Mello]

Repost for John C, itisme740 at aol.com

<>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Benevides, Teves, Oliveira Pimentel (Sao Miguel island maybe; no time period)

['John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy]

Matias de Benevides of Bretanha, son of António Martins and Bárbara Teixeira 
(d. 16-1-1714), was married in Bretanha on 1 march 1704 to Teresa de Teves (b. 
24-2-1676; d.  6-6-1751), daughter of André de Teves and Leonor de Sousa.

John Miranda Raposo



On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:31 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
 


Repost for John C, itisme740 at aol.com


<>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: I need some help reading record.

[Edna Epps]

Thanks Shirley.  That helps with the Santa Antao part.  And probably the 
Leonardo too.   I was trying to read Lemos there since my Lemos family comes 
from Sao Jorge and I thought maybe there was a connection with my Maternal and 
Paternal grandparents.;)  Anyhow thank you for the help.
Edna 
dave-e...@comcast.net
You are a letter from Christ ❤
2 Corinthians 3:3: You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of 
our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not 
on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 

On Jun 24, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Shirley Allegre  wrote:

> Antonio married Angela Costa Leonardo, native Santa Antao, Sao Jorge island. 
>  
> He died 31 December 1992.
>  
> That's the best that I can do.  Shirley in CA
> - Original Message -
> From: Edna Epps
> To: Azores Genalogy Group
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 8:05 PM
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: I need some help reading record.
> 
> Can someone help me read what is in the margin of this birth record: 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P95.html.
>   It’s the one on the right side of the page, No 18 for Antonio.  I think the 
> margin says he got married with Angelic (?) Costa ?. I am trying to make 
> Lemos at the end of her name but it may be saying where she lived?? Looks 
> like she was a native of Santa ? Island of Sao Jorge..then maybe it tells 
> where the marriage was recorded in Horta and the marriage was 1-19-1991.  
> Then I think the 2nd note says Antonio died 12-31-1992 and looks like it’s 
> recorded at Horta too???  Antonio’s mother is my Maternal Grandmother’s 
> sister.  I can read the birth record,I just need some help with the tiny 
> writing in the margin.
>  
> Thanks in advance.
> Edna Lemos Epps.
> dave-e...@comcast.net
> Isaiah 30:18 "Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you; 
> He rises to show you compassion. For the Lord is a God
> of justice, Blessed are all who wait for Him"
> 
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with a Baptism record - Santa Cruz parish on Graciosa Island

[Isabella Baltar]

Nick,

The handwriting is really bad. One needs time to study the pattern of the 
priest's handwriting and only then it is possible to get a better 
understanding of what he says accurately. 

I confirm that Manoel is the son of Anna Joaquina, her last name is not 
clear at first glance. Only one of the parents is mentioned, I believe is 
the mother, as I can read the second part of the name "do Rozario". They 
were all born in Santa Cruz, residents of Corpo Santo. Manoel was born on 
the 8 Jul 1903 and baptized on the 25 of the same month and year.

As I said, further study is necessary to read the whole document in details.

Isabella Baltar
myportuguesegen.blogspot.com



On Monday, June 23, 2014 2:28:33 PM UTC-4, Nick Gombash wrote:
>
> I have a baptismal record from 1803 with some terrible handwriting. I know 
> that the child is Manuel and he was the illegitimate son of Anna Joaquina. 
> It's entry 46, top right of the document. Does it state who Anna Joaquina's 
> parents are? Some entries have beautiful handwriting (like entry 47, below 
> Manuel's baptism).. but others are terrible. Thank you for any help.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1796-1805/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1796-1805_item1/P149.html
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Diane George]

Hi,

 

I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de Avila,
married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or "o Cabaco".  I believe that they are my
9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death record for
Maria at
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-
1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html (middle record on
the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria at the time of
death and also any other names that appear in the death record. I can read
the deceased husband's name and a daughter, Catarina Dutra, but I can't read
most of the rest of the record. 

 

The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage
tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn't born until 1673 and
her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54
for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria de
Avila is at
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-
1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html

I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria
since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don't know how she
decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she does
have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 1650.
It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.

 

I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I can
search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with the
these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese which
appears to be her language.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Diane George

 

 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) please

[IslandRoutes]

I am helping a cousin with her Raposo line.  I came across two entries in 
the passports that I believe are brothers (thought there is some confusion 
over how this family has linked these two together).

Anyway, this is the page I am looking at:
http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883_item1/P103.html

The entries are #866 and #874.  In #874, the parents are listed as Pai 
Incognito and Ma. de Jacintha.  In #866, the parents seem to say "Outro" 
and Maria Albina.  What does Outro (or whatever it is) mean in this case?  
I may not be reading it right but I thought it meant something like "other, 
another".  So maybe it has a different meaning here?  I checked Robert 
Demello's passport index book and he has the father as no name but 
"deceased".  Is that what the term is saying?

Thanks for the help!

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) please

['John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy]

I do not know that Manuel (son of another "outro" of the same name and Maria 
Albina, and Francisco, son of an unknown father and Maria Jacinta, are related. 



On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:26 PM, IslandRoutes 
 wrote:
 


I am helping a cousin with her Raposo line.  I came across two entries in the 
passports that I believe are brothers (thought there is some confusion over how 
this family has linked these two together).

Anyway, this is the page I am looking at:
http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883_item1/P103.html

The entries are #866 and #874.  In #874, the parents are listed as Pai 
Incognito and Ma. de Jacintha.  In #866, the parents seem to say "Outro" and 
Maria Albina.  What does Outro (or whatever it is) mean in this case?  I may 
not be reading it right but I thought it meant something like "other, another". 
 So maybe it has a different meaning here?  I checked Robert Demello's passport 
index book and he has the father as no name but "deceased".  Is that what the 
term is saying?

Thanks for the help!

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with a Baptism record - Santa Cruz parish on Graciosa Island

[pico]

Hi Nick,Adding to what Isabella said, the first name of the maternal grandmother, mother of this baby's own mother, is Felicia (do Rosario).If this is your own ancestor, you might want to know the godfather was the Reverendo Beneficiado Manuel de Sousa e Bettencourt, parishioner in this same village (Santa Cruz). There is no mention of the godmother which is quite common. I have always assumed that the godmother in such a case quite possibly was a saint, such as Nossa Senhora do Rosario (like the grandmother) or maybe another, but you'll never know and it makes no difference.As to the handwriting, this is quite a readable record and you will have to just get better at reading them. I wish they were all this good. There are far worse and then combine that with severe deterioration and it's a real challenge.Good luck,Doug da Rocha HolmesPico & Terceira Genealogist=Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.Write me here for more info: n...@rochaholmes.com=


 Original Message 
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with a Baptism record - Santa Cruz
parish on Graciosa Island
From: Isabella Baltar 
Date: Tue, June 24, 2014 10:20 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Nick,The handwriting is really bad. One needs time to study the pattern of the priest's handwriting and only then it is possible to get a better understanding of what he says accurately. I confirm that Manoel is the son of Anna Joaquina, her last name is not clear at first glance. Only one of the parents is mentioned, I believe is the mother, as I can read the second part of the name "do Rozario". They were all born in Santa Cruz, residents of Corpo Santo. Manoel was born on the 8 Jul 1903 and baptized on the 25 of the same month and year.As I said, further study is necessary to read the whole document in details.Isabella Baltarmyportuguesegen.blogspot.comOn Monday, June 23, 2014 2:28:33 PM UTC-4, Nick Gombash wrote:I have a baptismal record from 1803 with some terrible handwriting. I know that the child is Manuel and he was the illegitimate son of Anna Joaquina. It's entry 46, top right of the document. Does it state who Anna Joaquina's parents are? Some entries have beautiful handwriting (like entry 47, below Manuel's baptism).. but others are terrible. Thank you for any help.http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1796-1805/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1796-1805_item1/P149.html  --    





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) please

[Eliseu Pacheco da Silva]

It means that the father has the same name. (Outro of the same name) :)

 

De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de 
IslandRoutes
Enviada: terça-feira, 24 de Junho de 2014 18:27
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) 
please

 

I am helping a cousin with her Raposo line.  I came across two entries in the 
passports that I believe are brothers (thought there is some confusion over how 
this family has linked these two together).

Anyway, this is the page I am looking at:
 

 
http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883_item1/P103.html

The entries are #866 and #874.  In #874, the parents are listed as Pai 
Incognito and Ma. de Jacintha.  In #866, the parents seem to say "Outro" and 
Maria Albina.  What does Outro (or whatever it is) mean in this case?  I may 
not be reading it right but I thought it meant something like "other, another". 
 So maybe it has a different meaning here?  I checked Robert Demello's passport 
index book and he has the father as no name but "deceased".  Is that what the 
term is saying?

Thanks for the help!

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 .
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with a Baptism record - Santa Cruz parish on Graciosa Island

[pico]

I forgot to correct the year. It's from 1803, not 1903. But I see your original message got the year right.And since there has been a lot of mention of Veiga lately on this list, you might find it interesting that the priest was João Espínola da Veiga, the curate of Santa Cruz parish.Also of interest might be that Veiga shows up in Terceira and some of those eventually emigrated to California about 100 years ago. I am pretty sure some of their descendants are on this list.Doug da Rocha HolmesPico & Terceira Genealogist=Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.Write me here for more info: n...@rochaholmes.com=


 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with a Baptism record - Santa
Cruz parish on Graciosa Island
From: 
Date: Tue, June 24, 2014 12:16 pm
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Hi Nick,Adding to what Isabella said, the first name of the maternal grandmother, mother of this baby's own mother, is Felicia (do Rosario).If this is your own ancestor, you might want to know the godfather was the Reverendo Beneficiado Manuel de Sousa e Bettencourt, parishioner in this same village (Santa Cruz). There is no mention of the godmother which is quite common. I have always assumed that the godmother in such a case quite possibly was a saint, such as Nossa Senhora do Rosario (like the grandmother) or maybe another, but you'll never know and it makes no difference.As to the handwriting, this is quite a readable record and you will have to just get better at reading them. I wish they were all this good. There are far worse and then combine that with severe deterioration and it's a real challenge.Good luck,Doug da Rocha HolmesPico & Terceira Genealogist=Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.Write me here for more info: n...@rochaholmes.com=    Original Message  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with a Baptism record - Santa Cruz parish on Graciosa Island From: Isabella Baltar  Date: Tue, June 24, 2014 10:20 am To: azores@googlegroups.com  Nick,The handwriting is really bad. One needs time to study the pattern of the priest's handwriting and only then it is possible to get a better understanding of what he says accurately. I confirm that Manoel is the son of Anna Joaquina, her last name is not clear at first glance. Only one of the parents is mentioned, I believe is the mother, as I can read the second part of the name "do Rozario". They were all born in Santa Cruz, residents of Corpo Santo. Manoel was born on the 8 Jul 1903 and baptized on the 25 of the same month and year.As I said, further study is necessary to read the whole document in details.Isabella Baltarmyportuguesegen.blogspot.comOn Monday, June 23, 2014 2:28:33 PM UTC-4, Nick Gombash wrote:I have a baptismal record from 1803 with some terrible handwriting. I know that the child is Manuel and he was the illegitimate son of Anna Joaquina. It's entry 46, top right of the document. Does it state who Anna Joaquina's parents are? Some entries have beautiful handwriting (like entry 47, below Manuel's baptism).. but others are terrible. Thank you for any help.http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1796-1805/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1796-1805_item1/P149.html  --   --   





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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Pam Santos]

85 years old


On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de
> Avila, married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they
> are my 9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death
> record for Maria at
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
> (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria
> at the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death
> record. I can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina
> Dutra, but I can’t read most of the rest of the record.
>
>
>
> The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage
> tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and
> her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54
> for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria
> de Avila is at
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html
>
> I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria
> since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she
> decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she
> does have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in
> 1650. It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.
>
>
>
> I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I
> can search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with
> the these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese
> which appears to be her language.
>
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Diane George
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) please

[IslandRoutes]

Eliseu,
Thanks!  I was thinking that might be it.  I am not sure how Robert Demello 
got deceased from the entry.

John, 
According to the family in Hawaii, they are brothers.  Manoel Raposo is my 
cousin's great great grandfather.  I can track both to the island of 
Kauai.  Francisco worked on the Kilauea Sugar Plantation the same as my 
Pacheco's.  I'm not entirely convinced of the connection or that these two 
entries are the right people (I know Francisco matches the person from 
Kilauea).  I'm trying to sort it out.   Are you working on either of these 
families?

Mel

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[John Vasconcelos]

Hi Diane,
For your information, my mother was 39 when I was born and 43 when my
sister was born and I was the first born so it isn't so unlikely as you
might think.
John Vasconcelos


On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de
> Avila, married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they
> are my 9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death
> record for Maria at
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
> (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria
> at the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death
> record. I can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina
> Dutra, but I can’t read most of the rest of the record.
>
>
>
> The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage
> tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and
> her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54
> for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria
> de Avila is at
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html
>
> I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria
> since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she
> decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she
> does have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in
> 1650. It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.
>
>
>
> I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I
> can search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with
> the these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese
> which appears to be her language.
>
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Diane George
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[pico]

Hi John,What caught my attention was the age of 54 for having a child. If it's even possible, it must be extremely rare.And so I agree it's unlikely. So if this were my own family, I would highly question these findings and resolve it completely before proceeding. I'm willing to bet it's not the same lady for both births and that's an easy bet.Doug da Rocha HolmesPico & Terceira Genealogist=Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.Write me here for more info: n...@rochaholmes.com=


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?
From: John Vasconcelos 
Date: Tue, June 24, 2014 5:31 pm
To: azores 

Hi Diane,For your information, my mother was 39 when I was born and 43 when my sister was born and I was the first born so it isn't so unlikely as you might think.John Vasconcelos On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George  wrote: Hi,  I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de Avila, married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they are my 9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death record for Maria at http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria at the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death record. I can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina Dutra, but I can’t read most of the rest of the record.   The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54 for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria de Avila is at http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she does have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 1650. It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.  I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I can search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with the these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese which appears to be her language.  Any help would be appreciated.  Diane George  





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[pico]

I should have also stated that it's not the same woman if she was really 38 and 54 for those births.It would have to be a younger lady - probably 10 years younger.Doug da Rocha HolmesPico & Terceira Genealogist=Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.Write me here for more info: n...@rochaholmes.com=


 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?
From: 
Date: Tue, June 24, 2014 5:36 pm
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Hi John,What caught my attention was the age of 54 for having a child. If it's even possible, it must be extremely rare.And so I agree it's unlikely. So if this were my own family, I would highly question these findings and resolve it completely before proceeding. I'm willing to bet it's not the same lady for both births and that's an easy bet.Doug da Rocha HolmesPico & Terceira Genealogist=Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.Write me here for more info: n...@rochaholmes.com=    Original Message  Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila? From: John Vasconcelos  Date: Tue, June 24, 2014 5:31 pm To: azores   Hi Diane,For your information, my mother was 39 when I was born and 43 when my sister was born and I was the first born so it isn't so unlikely as you might think.John Vasconcelos On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George  wrote: Hi,  I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de Avila, married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they are my 9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death record for Maria at http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria at the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death record. I can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina Dutra, but I can’t read most of the rest of the record.   The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54 for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria de Avila is at http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she does have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 1650. It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.  I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I can search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with the these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese which appears to be her language.  Any help would be appreciated.  Diane George   





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Diane George]

Actually I was more concerned about the last child being born when she was 54. 
I have an uncle is 8 months younger than I am who was born when his mother was 
43 also. I also can’t figure out how to decide which baptism record for a Maria 
would fit from the four listed.

 

Anyway, thank you and Pam for responding.

 

DIane

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
John Vasconcelos
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:31 PM
To: azores
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

 

Hi Diane,

For your information, my mother was 39 when I was born and 43 when my sister 
was born and I was the first born so it isn't so unlikely as you might think.

John Vasconcelos

 

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George mailto:digeorg...@hotmail.com> > wrote:

Hi,

 

I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de Avila, 
married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they are my 9th 
great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death record for Maria at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
 (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria at 
the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death record. I 
can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina Dutra, but I 
can’t read most of the rest of the record. 

 

The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage tree 
has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and her last 
child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54 for the last 
birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria de Avila is at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html

I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria since 
there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she decided to 
look at the records for that time period for Maria since she does have a record 
for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 1650. It seems more 
likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.

 

I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I can 
search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with the these 
questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese which appears 
to be her language.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Diane George

 

 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: The Genetic Makeup of Azoreans Versus Mainland Portugal Population

[Antonio Faria]

The study is interesting although I don't think it accurately represents 
the population of the Azores for various reasons I will list a few of my 
concerns. Terceira represents about 23% of the population of the Azores 8% 
of the samples are from Terceira. The islands have never been studied 
individually on their own these types of studies tend to cluster the 
samples in one category as Azores or split the samples into three groups of 
islands. The Azores were settled over a period of about 200 years from 
people from various parts of Portugal and other nationalities as well  and 
tended to cluster near others that were most similar to them. In the island 
of Pico we have 13 freguesias each with a  different accent and each has 
unique traditions. Until the islands are studied individually I don't think 
the information is very reliable. I personally share Dna with people from 5 
other islands but when I take a look at the results for the various islands 
on the Azores Dna Project it is apparent to me that there are significant 
differences genetically between the islands. I think there are trends that 
have not been picked up yet by genetic studies are we also need more people 
to test before we get a clearer picture.

Antonio


On Monday, June 23, 2014 8:14:14 PM UTC-7, E Sharp wrote:
>
> Here is an interesting site for all you DNA geniuseswhich I am 
> NOT..but what I did understand I found interesting.
>
> http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/21207.pdf
>
> "E"
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) please

[IslandRoutes]

An added note:
I decided to take a look at Mosteiros today.  I found Francisco Raposo and 
Maria Emilia's marriage record.  It does confirm that Francisco was a Pai 
Incognito.  He was also a widow.
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1880-1889/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1880-1889_item1/P5.html

I learned from my cousin that the connection is from oral history.  I am 
not convinced that Manoel Raposo m. Maria Albina is Francisco's brother.  
Cousin, maybe.I think the family may be taking the family story and 
looking at the records and saying "Manoel had a brother.  The brother 
worked on the same plantation, therefore, this Raposo must be his 
brother."  I will see if they have more information that can establish some 
sort of connection.  But even with the marriage record the mother is given 
as Maria Jacinta.  Manoel Raposo's mother is supposed to be Maria Albina 
(his wife is named the same).

Let's see if the family comes up with anything... Thanks!


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Dano]

Diane, the obito does appear to state that Maria was age 85 at death, but, 
if that first letter is actually an "s" with an exaggerated tail, it would 
read age 75 at death.

I say this because it appears that the scribe used a "selective flourish" 
on a couple of words - one being Maria's age, and, the other, the 
daughter's status as "Solteira (single)." Both words include an exaggerated 
tail on the letter "s." If this is in fact the case, this Maria d'Avila 
would actually be ten years younger (75) when she passed away. My 
suggestion to you would be to confirm Maria's age by researching her 
marriage - which actually states the ages of the bride and groom. That 
should put to rest any questions as to whether you have the correct couple.

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:48:30 PM UTC-4, DiG wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de 
> Avila, married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they 
> are my 9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death 
> record for Maria at 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
>  
> (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria 
> at the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death 
> record. I can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina 
> Dutra, but I can’t read most of the rest of the record. 
>
>  
>
> The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage 
> tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and 
> her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54 
> for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria 
> de Avila is at 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html
>
> I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria 
> since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she 
> decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she 
> does have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 
> 1650. It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.
>
>  
>
> I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I 
> can search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with 
> the these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese 
> which appears to be her language.
>
>  
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>  
>
> Diane George
>
>  
>
>  
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Geraldo Dutra de Andrade Neto]

Hi Diane,
I'm also from this line, as I descend from Pedro Dutra Alvernas and Maria
Correia (the Dutra in my name today is from him). This Pedro Dutra Alvernas
is also Known as cabaço, and he is probably the son of Pedro Dutra Alvernas
(also known as Pedro Utra) married to Maria de Ávila.
I have not found the marriage record for Pedro Dutra Alvernas, the son, to
Maria Correia. His death is the second in the left:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1727-1782/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1727-1782_item1/P69.html

I wonder which son or daughter you descend from.
The information I have on Pedro Dutra Alvernaz and Maria de Ávila is from
"Genealogias das Quatro Ilhas, vol.I, p.811, de Jorge Forjaz e Atonio
Ornelas Mendes.":

"Maria de Ávila, n. em 1647 e f. em Castelo Branco a 1.2.1722.
C.c. Pedro Dutra Alvernaz, b. em Castelo Branco a 3.7.1650 e f. em Castelo
Branco a 9.11.1705, filho de Amaro de Almança e de Isabel de Alvernaz."

It means she was born in 1647 e died in 1 fev 1722. Married to Pedro Dutra
Alvernaz, baptized in 3 jun 1650, died in 9 nov 1705, son of Amaro de
Almança and Isabel de Alvernaz.

I hope it helps,

Geraldo Dutra de Andrade Neto




2014-06-24 21:39 GMT-03:00 Diane George :

> Actually I was more concerned about the last child being born when she was
> 54. I have an uncle is 8 months younger than I am who was born when his
> mother was 43 also. I also can’t figure out how to decide which baptism
> record for a Maria would fit from the four listed.
>
>
>
> Anyway, thank you and Pam for responding.
>
>
>
> DIane
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *John Vasconcelos
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:31 PM
> *To:* azores
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?
>
>
>
> Hi Diane,
>
> For your information, my mother was 39 when I was born and 43 when my
> sister was born and I was the first born so it isn't so unlikely as you
> might think.
>
> John Vasconcelos
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de
> Avila, married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they
> are my 9th great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death
> record for Maria at
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
> (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria
> at the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death
> record. I can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina
> Dutra, but I can’t read most of the rest of the record.
>
>
>
> The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage
> tree has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and
> her last child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54
> for the last birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria
> de Avila is at
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html
>
> I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria
> since there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she
> decided to look at the records for that time period for Maria since she
> does have a record for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in
> 1650. It seems more likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.
>
>
>
> I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I
> can search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with
> the these questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese
> which appears to be her language.
>
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Diane George
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
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> membership."
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Diane George]

Thank you—I wondered if that might be an “Se” instead of “Oi”  That would make 
a little more sense. I fear that the marriage records for Castelo Branco (at 
least on the CCA site) don’t start until 1711. Next, I have to find out if they 
exist elsewhere. I have also looked for baptism records in 1644-1646, but can’t 
find a record that I can confirm as this Maria.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Diane George

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dano
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:39 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

 

Diane, the obito does appear to state that Maria was age 85 at death, but, if 
that first letter is actually an "s" with an exaggerated tail, it would read 
age 75 at death.

 

I say this because it appears that the scribe used a "selective flourish" on a 
couple of words - one being Maria's age, and, the other, the daughter's status 
as "Solteira (single)." Both words include an exaggerated tail on the letter 
"s." If this is in fact the case, this Maria d'Avila would actually be ten 
years younger (75) when she passed away. My suggestion to you would be to 
confirm Maria's age by researching her marriage - which actually states the 
ages of the bride and groom. That should put to rest any questions as to 
whether you have the correct couple.


On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:48:30 PM UTC-4, DiG wrote:

Hi,

 

I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de Avila, 
married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they are my 9th 
great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death record for Maria at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
 (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria at 
the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death record. I 
can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina Dutra, but I 
can’t read most of the rest of the record. 

 

The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage tree 
has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and her last 
child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54 for the last 
birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria de Avila is at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html

I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria since 
there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she decided to 
look at the records for that time period for Maria since she does have a record 
for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 1650. It seems more 
likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.

 

I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I can 
search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with the these 
questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese which appears 
to be her language.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Diane George

 

 

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

[Diane George]

Thank you for the information. I believe I am a descendant of Pedro Dutra 
Alvernas and Maria Correia.

 

I will send you more information to your email address. 

 

Diane George

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Geraldo Dutra de Andrade Neto
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:56 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

 

Hi Diane, 
I'm also from this line, as I descend from Pedro Dutra Alvernas and Maria 
Correia (the Dutra in my name today is from him). This Pedro Dutra Alvernas is 
also Known as cabaço, and he is probably the son of Pedro Dutra Alvernas (also 
known as Pedro Utra) married to Maria de Ávila. 
I have not found the marriage record for Pedro Dutra Alvernas, the son, to 
Maria Correia. His death is the second in the left:

 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1727-1782/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1727-1782_item1/P69.html


I wonder which son or daughter you descend from.

The information I have on Pedro Dutra Alvernaz and Maria de Ávila is from 
"Genealogias das Quatro Ilhas, vol.I, p.811, de Jorge Forjaz e Atonio Ornelas 
Mendes.":

 

"Maria de Ávila, n. em 1647 e f. em Castelo Branco a 1.2.1722.

C.c. Pedro Dutra Alvernaz, b. em Castelo Branco a 3.7.1650 e f. em Castelo 
Branco a 9.11.1705, filho de Amaro de Almança e de Isabel de Alvernaz."

 

It means she was born in 1647 e died in 1 fev 1722. Married to Pedro Dutra 
Alvernaz, baptized in 3 jun 1650, died in 9 nov 1705, son of Amaro de Almança 
and Isabel de Alvernaz.

 

I hope it helps,

 

Geraldo Dutra de Andrade Neto

 

 

 

2014-06-24 21:39 GMT-03:00 Diane George mailto:digeorg...@hotmail.com> >:

Actually I was more concerned about the last child being born when she was 54. 
I have an uncle is 8 months younger than I am who was born when his mother was 
43 also. I also can’t figure out how to decide which baptism record for a Maria 
would fit from the four listed.

 

Anyway, thank you and Pam for responding.

 

DIane

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com   
[mailto:azores@googlegroups.com  ] On Behalf Of 
John Vasconcelos
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:31 PM
To: azores


Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Age in Death Record for Maria de Avila?

 

Hi Diane,

For your information, my mother was 39 when I was born and 43 when my sister 
was born and I was the first born so it isn't so unlikely as you might think.

John Vasconcelos

 

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Diane George mailto:digeorg...@hotmail.com> > wrote:

Hi,

 

I recently had a match on My Heritage with a tree that has a Maria de Avila, 
married to Pedro Dutra Alvernas or “o Cabaco”.  I believe that they are my 9th 
great grandparents. The person on My Heritage found a death record for Maria at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-O-1643-1722_item1/P210.html
 (middle record on the right side). I am trying to decipher the age of Maria at 
the time of death and also any other names that appear in the death record. I 
can read the deceased husband’s name and a daughter, Catarina Dutra, but I 
can’t read most of the rest of the record. 

 

The reason I want the age is that the listing for Maria on the My Heritage tree 
has her birth in 1635, but her first child isn’t born until 1673 and her last 
child is born in 1689. That makes her 38 at the first birth and 54 for the last 
birth which seems unlikely. The birth record cited for Maria de Avila is at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706/FAL-HT-CASTELOBRANCO-B-1624-1706_item1/P22.html

I am not sure how the owner of the tree concluded that this is her Maria since 
there are at least 4 Marias on the page. I also don’t know how she decided to 
look at the records for that time period for Maria since she does have a record 
for the husband Pedro that indicates he was baptized in 1650. It seems more 
likely that Maria would have a birth date closer to his.

 

I am hoping that the age of Maria at death will point to a birth year I can 
search. I am reluctant to contact the owner of the tree directly with the these 
questions because I am not sure I can convey them in Portuguese which appears 
to be her language.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Diane George

 

 

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