Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Machado Homen (Homem)

["E" Sharp]

Dallas,

I found the baptism record for an Jose s/o Antonio Machado Homens and Maria
de Conceicao Quadros? born January 27. 1898, Norte Pequeno, Calheta, Sao
Jorge here:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-CH-NORTEPEQUENO-B-1890-1899/SJR-CH-NORTEPEQUENO-B-1890-1899_item1/P64.html

"E"

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:39 PM, "E" Sharp  wrote:

> Dallas,
>
> I found a Manuel Machado Homen(m) born in 1898, in Norte Pegueno, St
> Jorge, Azores, Portugal.  I don't know if these records are on tombo.pt
> but you might give this a try.  I believe you list him as being born in
> January 1898.
>
> "E"
>
>>
>>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] DUTRA/SILVEIRA fm Terceira/Lajes, Piedade Pico and PINHEIRO, FERREIRA (or MOULES fm Sco Mateus/Santa Barbara, Terceira

[Sandra Perez]

Welcome!

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:55 PM, M. Stringer  wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I'm new to this list (and GGroups and new to DNA researching.  I've
> recently joined the Azores DNA group (FamilyFinder test).
>
> My grandmother immigrated to Boston from Angra do Heroismo, Terceira  in
> 1904, with her mother and three siblings. Another sibling and maternal aunt
> immigrated earlier.
>
>
> GMother's Paternal Family
> My grandmother's paternal grandparents married 5Feb1844 in Conceicao,
> Terceira.
>
> What I know of them comes from their marriage record, her birth record and
> baptisms of their children/grandchildren.
>
> Jose Francisco DUTRA (of Lajes, Pico) + Bernarda Candida (b 25Mar1826 in
> Piedade, Pico)
>
> Jose s/o Jose Antonio DUTRA + Rita Candida
>
> Bernarda d/o Jose SILVEIRA; (s/o Jose SILVEIRA + Maria Josefa)
>+ Bernarda Marianna (d/o Lino ANTONIO + Perpetua Maria)
>
> GMother's Maternal Family
> My grandmother's mother was b 10Aug1855; bap Sco Mateus, Terceira.
>
> She was d/o Francisco Nunes PINHEIRO (of Sco Mateus) + Maria Julia (of
> Santa Barbara).  They were m in Sco Mateus, but I do not have that record.
>
> Francisco was s/o Manoel Nunes de Barcelo [without PINHEIRO] + Luzia do
> Carmo
> [Note: Francisco's brother/sister godparents to some children, definitely
> as PINHEIRO]
>
> Maria Julia was d/o Antonio Ferreira MOULES [or Moules FERREIRA] + Fabiana
> Julia.
> [Note: Antonio written as Ferreira MOULES, BUT his children recorded as
> FERREIRA when godparents to nieces/nephews]
>
> Does anyone recognize these families?
>
> Regards,
> Marsha Stringer
>
>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Machado Homen (Homem)

[Mary Bordi]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016, "E" Sharp  wrote:
>
> I found a Manuel Machado Homen(m) born in 1898, in Norte Pegueno, St
> Jorge, Azores, Portugal.  I don't know if these records are on tombo.pt
> but you might give this a try.  I believe you list him as being born in
> January 1898.
>
>

I was looking in Norte Pequeno and found a José born January 27 in 1898. I
wonder if he changed his first name?

Record starts at bottom of left hand page.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-CH-NORTEPEQUENO-B-1890-1899/SJR-CH-NORTEPEQUENO-B-1890-1899_item1/P64.html

I research Norte Grande and the name could have been from there but wasn't,
so I looked in Norte Pequeno.

Mary











> "E"
>
>>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] DUTRA/SILVEIRA fm Terceira/Lajes, Piedade Pico and PINHEIRO, FERREIRA (or MOULES fm Sco Mateus/Santa Barbara, Terceira

[M. Stringer]

Greetings,

I'm new to this list (and GGroups and new to DNA researching.  I've 
recently joined the Azores DNA group (FamilyFinder test).

My grandmother immigrated to Boston from Angra do Heroismo, Terceira  in 
1904, with her mother and three siblings. Another sibling and maternal aunt 
immigrated earlier.


GMother's Paternal Family
My grandmother's paternal grandparents married 5Feb1844 in Conceicao, 
Terceira.

What I know of them comes from their marriage record, her birth record and 
baptisms of their children/grandchildren.

Jose Francisco DUTRA (of Lajes, Pico) + Bernarda Candida (b 25Mar1826 in 
Piedade, Pico)

Jose s/o Jose Antonio DUTRA + Rita Candida

Bernarda d/o Jose SILVEIRA; (s/o Jose SILVEIRA + Maria Josefa)
   + Bernarda Marianna (d/o Lino ANTONIO + Perpetua Maria) 

GMother's Maternal Family
My grandmother's mother was b 10Aug1855; bap Sco Mateus, Terceira. 

She was d/o Francisco Nunes PINHEIRO (of Sco Mateus) + Maria Julia (of 
Santa Barbara).  They were m in Sco Mateus, but I do not have that record.

Francisco was s/o Manoel Nunes de Barcelo [without PINHEIRO] + Luzia do 
Carmo
[Note: Francisco's brother/sister godparents to some children, definitely 
as PINHEIRO]

Maria Julia was d/o Antonio Ferreira MOULES [or Moules FERREIRA] + Fabiana 
Julia.
[Note: Antonio written as Ferreira MOULES, BUT his children recorded as 
FERREIRA when godparents to nieces/nephews]

Does anyone recognize these families?  

Regards,
Marsha Stringer
 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] birth certificates, etc

[Cheri Mello]

They may be in the Civil Registry records, depending on the time period.
You have to order those on microfilm from the Family History Library (FHL).
I don't think they are on the CCA. But you can double check.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] birth certificates, etc

[Rosemarie Capodicci]

Shiri,
Tombo.pt is a portal only to the CCA website which holds the passports and
the Catholic Church baptism/marriage/death records. If your people were
practicing their Jewish religion, they would not be in those records. They
would however, be in the Passports as they were Portuguese Citizens leaving
their country of origin.


Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Shirl Sereque 
wrote:

>
>My ancestors were Jewish.  Would they be listed under tombo.pt for
> births and passports?  They were from Terceira/Angra/Se and the surname was
> Seriqui.
>Thank you for any information!
> - Shirl -
>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Machado Homen (Homem)

["E" Sharp]

Dallas,

I see your chart on Ancestry and you list a Manuel Lourenco Homen.  I have
sent you what I believe is his Naturalization Record from Ancestry -
share.  Perhaps the info listed there will help you with Manuel Machado
Homen.  I am still trying to find his Naturalization Record.

"E"

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Dallas,
>
> You have a name, date, and a general location. All of the Sao Jorge
> baptisms are online. You can search each freguesia (village) on Sao Jorge.
> There are 11 on Sao Jorge (if you were on Sao Miguel with 70ish freguesias,
> you would need a different strategy).
> 1) Go here: tombo.pt/en
> 2) Left column: Click Azores
> 3) Left column: Click Sao Jorge
> 4) Start going one by one through each freguesia.
> Good luck!
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> --
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> membership."
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Confirm name Joao Rodrigues CANEIRIO? e Isabel da Ponte--Maia

[JR]

We misunderstand each other. My bad. I meant to say I have all that info, 
but did not know he used two names. Unfortunately for you, Joao da Ponte cc 
Barbara Francisca was baptized in Porto Formoso in period where records are 
missing. But he must have been circa 1738, one or two years after parents 
married. We are in agreement, all is good.

JR

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 2:50:01 PM UTC-4, Sandra Perez wrote:
>
> JR, here is further proof Julio's info is correct. This is the birth of 
> another Maria born to Joao Rodrigues e Josepha da Ponte in 1749.  Parents 
> are
> listed as Joao Rodrigues e Josepha de Paiva.  Julio's info shows Josepha's 
> father as Antonio de Paiva Moreno.
>
> Top right.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751_item1/P125.html
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:39 PM, JR  
> wrote:
>
>> I have them, but it didn't correspond to Joao da Ponte or Rodrigues, so I 
>> did not think it was them. I have him as Joao de Sousa Bulhao cc Josefa da 
>> Ponte. It certainly makes Azorean research interesting to say the least.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 8:57:39 PM UTC-4, Sandra Perez wrote:
>>>
>>> JR, it is.  I was looking at some of my charts from several years ago 
>>> when I used FamilyTreeMaker. I noticed I had written Joao (Rodrigues) da 
>>> Ponte.
>>> Why did I do that?  I started cheking the children's baptisms and sure 
>>> enough on the last two it listed the paternal grandfather, Joao Rodrigues.  
>>> There
>>> was also a box with Joao da Ponte e Barbara Francisca whom I thought 
>>> might be a brother to my Jose da Ponte.  Which he was. So, the marriage
>>> record was wrong when it listed Joao da Ponte e Isabel da Ponte as my 
>>> Jose da Ponte's parents.
>>>
>>> I am glad you noticed.  I knew you would be interested.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 3:25 PM, JR  wrote:
>>>
 Is this the same Joao da Ponte cc Josefa da Ponte that we discussed 
 earlier? If so the info in Sao Roque was incorrect and it should have Joao 
 Rodrigues?

 JR


 On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 7:12:21 PM UTC-4, Sandra Perez wrote:
>
> Help confirm Joao's name. Note padrinho: Manoel de Medeiros Nunes.  I 
> believe Maria's is a 
> mistake. I found a Josepha b.1719 fa Manoel de Medeiros Nunes e Teresa 
> Bulhoa. I also found a Josepha born the same year to Pedro da Costa Ponte 
> e 
> Maria de Pemental. 
>
> The first child I found for Joao and Isabel was Maria 1744, however, I 
> know they had a son named Joao whose first marriage in Sao Roque states 
> he 
> was born Porto Formoso.  His bride was Barbara Francisca Rosa fa 
> Bernadino 
> de Sousa e Catharina Framcisca b.Jan 1729 was 30 yrs old when they 
> married 
> in 1759.  He married  a second time to Clara Jacinta 1790 in Sao Roque. 
> Joao's death in 1801 states he was 57. Which cannot be right.
>
> Joao's brother, Jose (my 4th grt-granfather) also married in Sao 
> Roque.  He married Anna Maria
> fa Francisco de Sousa Viveiros e Josepha Maria Rosa Botelha.
>
>
>
> Francisco bottom right. 
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751_item1/P75.html
>
> Jose bottom right
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1751-1762/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1751-1762_item1/P134.html
>
> Maria fa Joao Rodrigues Bulhao? e Isabel da Ponte--top left.
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751_item1/P26.html
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Sandra Perez.
>
> -- 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Sandra Perez
>>>
>> -- 
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>> email to 

[AZORES-Genealogy] birth certificates, etc

[Shirl Sereque]

   My ancestors were Jewish.  Would they be listed under tombo.pt for births 
and passports?  They were from Terceira/Angra/Se and the surname was Seriqui.   
Thank you for any information!- Shirl -

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Confirm name Joao Rodrigues CANEIRIO? e Isabel da Ponte--Maia

[Sandra Perez]

JR, here is further proof Julio's info is correct. This is the birth of
another Maria born to Joao Rodrigues e Josepha da Ponte in 1749.  Parents
are
listed as Joao Rodrigues e Josepha de Paiva.  Julio's info shows Josepha's
father as Antonio de Paiva Moreno.

Top right.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751_item1/P125.html

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:39 PM, JR  wrote:

> I have them, but it didn't correspond to Joao da Ponte or Rodrigues, so I
> did not think it was them. I have him as Joao de Sousa Bulhao cc Josefa da
> Ponte. It certainly makes Azorean research interesting to say the least.
>
> JR
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 8:57:39 PM UTC-4, Sandra Perez wrote:
>>
>> JR, it is.  I was looking at some of my charts from several years ago
>> when I used FamilyTreeMaker. I noticed I had written Joao (Rodrigues) da
>> Ponte.
>> Why did I do that?  I started cheking the children's baptisms and sure
>> enough on the last two it listed the paternal grandfather, Joao Rodrigues.
>> There
>> was also a box with Joao da Ponte e Barbara Francisca whom I thought
>> might be a brother to my Jose da Ponte.  Which he was. So, the marriage
>> record was wrong when it listed Joao da Ponte e Isabel da Ponte as my
>> Jose da Ponte's parents.
>>
>> I am glad you noticed.  I knew you would be interested.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 3:25 PM, JR  wrote:
>>
>>> Is this the same Joao da Ponte cc Josefa da Ponte that we discussed
>>> earlier? If so the info in Sao Roque was incorrect and it should have Joao
>>> Rodrigues?
>>>
>>> JR
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 7:12:21 PM UTC-4, Sandra Perez wrote:

 Help confirm Joao's name. Note padrinho: Manoel de Medeiros Nunes.  I
 believe Maria's is a
 mistake. I found a Josepha b.1719 fa Manoel de Medeiros Nunes e Teresa
 Bulhoa. I also found a Josepha born the same year to Pedro da Costa Ponte e
 Maria de Pemental.

 The first child I found for Joao and Isabel was Maria 1744, however, I
 know they had a son named Joao whose first marriage in Sao Roque states he
 was born Porto Formoso.  His bride was Barbara Francisca Rosa fa Bernadino
 de Sousa e Catharina Framcisca b.Jan 1729 was 30 yrs old when they married
 in 1759.  He married  a second time to Clara Jacinta 1790 in Sao Roque.
 Joao's death in 1801 states he was 57. Which cannot be right.

 Joao's brother, Jose (my 4th grt-granfather) also married in Sao
 Roque.  He married Anna Maria
 fa Francisco de Sousa Viveiros e Josepha Maria Rosa Botelha.



 Francisco bottom right.

 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751_item1/P75.html

 Jose bottom right

 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1751-1762/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1751-1762_item1/P134.html

 Maria fa Joao Rodrigues Bulhao? e Isabel da Ponte--top left.

 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751/SMG-RG-MAIA-B-1743-1751_item1/P26.html




 --

 Sandra Perez.

 --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sandra Perez
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Machado Homen (Homem)

[Cheri Mello]

Dallas,

You have a name, date, and a general location. All of the Sao Jorge
baptisms are online. You can search each freguesia (village) on Sao Jorge.
There are 11 on Sao Jorge (if you were on Sao Miguel with 70ish freguesias,
you would need a different strategy).
1) Go here: tombo.pt/en
2) Left column: Click Azores
3) Left column: Click Sao Jorge
4) Start going one by one through each freguesia.
Good luck!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Do any of you recognize this family - Mello/Homem - Terciera

[Dallas Martin]

That is my Grandfother's cousins I believe. I think he might have lived 
with them at some point. My Grandfather was named Manuel Machado Homem 
(changed it to Homen when he came over to the U.S.) We are probably distant 
cousins. Do you know any more about the Homen side any? I need to get a 
hold of my cosuins. 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Lee wrote:
>
> I am researching the family of another cousin.  All I have is the below:
>
> Frank C. Mello (Francisco, of course) born ca 1903 in Terciera (according 
> to grandson) living in Orange County, CA in 1940 and was naturalized.
>
> His wife was Mary A. Homem bonr ca 1911 in Massachusetts.
>
> Also living with them was her mother Anna Homem, born ca 1890.
>
> I have been unable to find very much at all on them at either Ancestry or 
> Familysearch.com
>
> Was curious as to whether anyone my might recognize any of them?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lee
> Oak Hill, WV
>
>
>
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Machado Homen (Homem)

[Dallas Martin]

I am wondering if anyone has access to my Grandfather's Baptismal record? 
My father told be that his original name was Homem, but the United States 
made him change it when he immigrated over here. I have no idea what church 
or who his parents were. Here is his info that I know:
Manuel Machado Homen
Birth Jan. 31, 1898 in Sao Jorge Azores Region, Portugal
Death Dec. 29, 1966 in Modesto Stanislaus County California, USA
If anyone can help that would be great. Below is his picture.


I have gotten some mis-information on him recently. If anyone is realted to 
him, please contact me. Thanks.

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name Abbreviations

[Diane George]

Thanks for the input on the abbreviations. My conclusion is to use Martins, not 
Moniz.

 

Diane

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Cesar Pimentel
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:32 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com; Cesar Pimentel 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name Abbreviations

 

Ual Angela,

 

Phenomenal!

 

You got it on some website?

 

Thank you,

 

Cesar Pimentel

cesarpimentel@hotmail.com  

 

  _  

De:   azores@googlegroups.com < 
 azores@googlegroups.com> em nome de Ângela 
Loura <  angelalo...@gmail.com>
Enviado: segunda-feira, 11 de julho de 2016 20:33
Para:   azores@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name Abbreviations 

 



 

2016-07-11 22:04 GMT+01:00 Ângela Loura  >:

What's the University of Minho's source? The book of portuguese paleographic 
abbreviations states that 'Miz" is Martins. 

 

 

 

2016-07-11 19:11 GMT+01:00 Diane George  >:

Hi,

 

I have two different results from two sources of Portuguese name lists for the 
abbreviation “Miz.” One list says it is “Martins” and one says “Moniz.” Anybody 
know which one is correct? The University of Minho database shows it as “Moniz” 
in one record and “Martins” in the other. Here is the example below. 

 


António Maria Vieira Bezerra


Born - São Roque do Pico 


Parents


João Vieira


Isabel Moniz 


Marriages and children


Married on 17 January 1598 to Bárbara Manuel, with


Maria João 1598


João Vieira 1599


Filipe ? 1602


Roque ? 1604


Francisco ? 1607


Susana Manuel 1610


Bárbara Manuel 1613


Águeda ? 1615 


Isabel Martins Maciel 1616 


 


In the CCA marriage record for Antonio Maria Vieira to Barbara Manuel, the 
mother’s name is shown as “Izabel Miz” ( 

 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-SR-SAOROQUE-C-1593-1675/PIC-SR-SAOROQUE-C-1593-1675_item1/P8.html
 , top left) and in the marriage record for the daughter of Antonio and 
Barbara, Isabel Martins Maciel is shown in the marriage record ( 

 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-SR-SAOROQUE-C-1593-1675/PIC-SR-SAOROQUE-C-1593-1675_item1/P200.html
 , bottom record) as “Izabel Miz Maciel.”

 

Any suggestions?

 

Diane George

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 .
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

[Cesar Pimentel]

JR,

O que eu digo é que não há um óbito confiável do Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) 
casado com Bárbara da Ponte.

Cesar.

De: azores@googlegroups.com  em nome de JR 

Enviado: terça-feira, 12 de julho de 2016 08:35:44
Para: Azores Genealogy
Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

Acho que este é obito de Manuel Costa Carreiro cc Isabel da Costa 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-O-1694-1741/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-O-1694-1741_item1/P98.html

Óbitos RGSP , em Abril de 25 a 1726, faleceu , Mel da Costa Carreiro ( Bartao 
na margem ) , de Idade de outenta annos , nao fez testamento...

Registro não indicar o nome da esposa

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:27 AM, JR 
> wrote:

O segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa a Maria Ferreira, agosto 26- 1702, diz 
que nubentes foram batizados em Maia, " Onde os contrahentes foi baptizados. "


The second marriage of Manoel da Costa to Maria Ferreira, Aug 26- 1702, says 
both newllyweds were baptised  in Maia, "onde os contrahentes foi baptizados."


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704_item1/P73.html

JR

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 6:45:04 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:

Yes JR, is what I'm doing, because there is no death of any child of this 
couple in Maya, or the death of Barbara da Ponte and there is no reliable death 
of Manoel da Costa also.


Another thing; I noticed is that with regard to female names, certain parishes 
prefer one to another . For example , Emilia. Where I found many Emilias ? In 
Rosto do Cão, where he sought my ancestress Emilia.


Barbara and Agada seems to be a preference of Ribeira Seca. I tell you if 
successful.


Hugs!

Cesar Pimentel

cesarpim...@hotmail.com



De: JR 
Enviado: domingo, 10 de julho de 2016 18:33
Para: Azores Genealogy
Cc: cesarpim...@hotmail.com
Assunto: Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

The Pontes of Maia are most likely related to the Pontes of Ribeira Grande and 
may even originate there. The Ponte Vidals of Maia almost certainly originate 
in Ribeira Grande and go back to pre-1600. But this is difficult to prove 
definitively.

When it come to end of line ancestors (end of records), we all face the same 
situation. We cannot go back any further. There are many examples where it 
appears a couple have only one surviving child. Because we may find one 
marriage. But my experience is that they usually had many children but only one 
survived and married, or we have no further information to link other people. 
Your only available choice is to look in Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca where 
there are pre-1660 baptisms. It is possible they lived in said places and 
eventually settled in Maia. In said villages, you will see a some references to 
Ribeirinha, a small villa just outside the main village. But there are no 
separate records for the older period of pre-1700, so again you have to look in 
Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca records.

JR



On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 8:07:25 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:

Hello guys,


Thus it is that down the couple Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) and Barbara da Ponte.


The difficulty in moving beyond this couple is that I have wanted for his life 
in Maia, and the earliest record of birth available there is 1665.


Well, here comes my doubts.


I also found the death of Manoel da Costa, Miller, occurred on 10/02/1698 in 
Maia, and that death is said that Manoel was buried in the grave of his father, 
Gaspar Lourensso (written with two "s" there ).


But how to make sure that this Manoel da Costa is even Manoel da Costa father 
of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and would have been married to Barbara da Costa?


I noticed a funny thing.


I looked ALL marriages registered in Maia, I began searching for a possible 
second marriage of Manoel da Costa, to see if, seeking in deaths, could find a 
death some Manoel someone widower, I would not have noticed, but what really 
got me It caught my attention is that in addition to her son's wedding, Manoel 
da Costa Carreiro with Izabel da Costa and then Maria Ferreira, there is no 
other wedding any other son of Manuel and Barbara.


It is not strange that? In those years an only child.


Reviewing Manoel marriage certificate Carreiro da Costa with Izabel da Costa, 
it is said that all were Maia, but in fact, the wording is ambiguous, may or 
may not be all but a few.


Is it not possible, in my view, that seek birth more children couple Manuel and 
Barbara Maia because the records do not make possible, but weddings, ah, that 
if there were, it would appear.


For now, my conclusion is that Manuel and Barbara couple did not live in Maia, 
but in some other place, and that would explain even not find even Barbara's 
death record , which 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

[Cesar Pimentel]

JR,

Não, o óbito de Manoel da Costa Carreiro aponta ele como sendo casado com sua 
segunda mulher, Maria Ferreira.

Cesar

De: azores@googlegroups.com  em nome de JR 

Enviado: terça-feira, 12 de julho de 2016 08:35:44
Para: Azores Genealogy
Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

Acho que este é obito de Manuel Costa Carreiro cc Isabel da Costa 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-O-1694-1741/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-O-1694-1741_item1/P98.html

Óbitos RGSP , em Abril de 25 a 1726, faleceu , Mel da Costa Carreiro ( Bartao 
na margem ) , de Idade de outenta annos , nao fez testamento...

Registro não indicar o nome da esposa

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:27 AM, JR 
> wrote:

O segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa a Maria Ferreira, agosto 26- 1702, diz 
que nubentes foram batizados em Maia, " Onde os contrahentes foi baptizados. "


The second marriage of Manoel da Costa to Maria Ferreira, Aug 26- 1702, says 
both newllyweds were baptised  in Maia, "onde os contrahentes foi baptizados."


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704_item1/P73.html

JR

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 6:45:04 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:

Yes JR, is what I'm doing, because there is no death of any child of this 
couple in Maya, or the death of Barbara da Ponte and there is no reliable death 
of Manoel da Costa also.


Another thing; I noticed is that with regard to female names, certain parishes 
prefer one to another . For example , Emilia. Where I found many Emilias ? In 
Rosto do Cão, where he sought my ancestress Emilia.


Barbara and Agada seems to be a preference of Ribeira Seca. I tell you if 
successful.


Hugs!

Cesar Pimentel

cesarpim...@hotmail.com



De: JR 
Enviado: domingo, 10 de julho de 2016 18:33
Para: Azores Genealogy
Cc: cesarpim...@hotmail.com
Assunto: Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

The Pontes of Maia are most likely related to the Pontes of Ribeira Grande and 
may even originate there. The Ponte Vidals of Maia almost certainly originate 
in Ribeira Grande and go back to pre-1600. But this is difficult to prove 
definitively.

When it come to end of line ancestors (end of records), we all face the same 
situation. We cannot go back any further. There are many examples where it 
appears a couple have only one surviving child. Because we may find one 
marriage. But my experience is that they usually had many children but only one 
survived and married, or we have no further information to link other people. 
Your only available choice is to look in Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca where 
there are pre-1660 baptisms. It is possible they lived in said places and 
eventually settled in Maia. In said villages, you will see a some references to 
Ribeirinha, a small villa just outside the main village. But there are no 
separate records for the older period of pre-1700, so again you have to look in 
Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca records.

JR



On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 8:07:25 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:

Hello guys,


Thus it is that down the couple Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) and Barbara da Ponte.


The difficulty in moving beyond this couple is that I have wanted for his life 
in Maia, and the earliest record of birth available there is 1665.


Well, here comes my doubts.


I also found the death of Manoel da Costa, Miller, occurred on 10/02/1698 in 
Maia, and that death is said that Manoel was buried in the grave of his father, 
Gaspar Lourensso (written with two "s" there ).


But how to make sure that this Manoel da Costa is even Manoel da Costa father 
of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and would have been married to Barbara da Costa?


I noticed a funny thing.


I looked ALL marriages registered in Maia, I began searching for a possible 
second marriage of Manoel da Costa, to see if, seeking in deaths, could find a 
death some Manoel someone widower, I would not have noticed, but what really 
got me It caught my attention is that in addition to her son's wedding, Manoel 
da Costa Carreiro with Izabel da Costa and then Maria Ferreira, there is no 
other wedding any other son of Manuel and Barbara.


It is not strange that? In those years an only child.


Reviewing Manoel marriage certificate Carreiro da Costa with Izabel da Costa, 
it is said that all were Maia, but in fact, the wording is ambiguous, may or 
may not be all but a few.


Is it not possible, in my view, that seek birth more children couple Manuel and 
Barbara Maia because the records do not make possible, but weddings, ah, that 
if there were, it would appear.


For now, my conclusion is that Manuel and Barbara couple did not live in Maia, 
but in some other place, and that would explain even not find even Barbara's 
death record , 

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

[Cesar Pimentel]

Jr,


Sim, assim como a primeira certidão de casamento de Manoel da Costa Carreiro e 
Izabel da Costa.


Contudo, o que me intriga?


1- Não há registro de nascimento de qualquer outro filho do casal Manoel da 
Costa e Bárbara da Ponte.

Mesmo considerando que o primeiro registro de nascimento disponível em Maia 
seja de 1665, imaginando que Manoel nasceu por volta de 1655.


2- Não há registro de qualquer outro casamento de eventuais filhos que o casal 
Manoel da Costa e Bárbara da Ponte possam ter tido, o que obrigatoriamente 
indica:

a) Eles não tiveram mais filhos (o que poderia ser confirmado pela ausência de 
registro de nascimentos)-Acho uma hipótese muito improvável para a época;

b) Eles tiveram filhos, mas nenhum dos demais filhos se casou- o que me parece 
igualmente improvável;


3- Não há registro de óbito de Bárbara da Ponte


4- Não há registro de óbito confiável de Manoel da Costa. Há um único registro, 
em 02/10/1698, que eu tenho usado como base de referência, de um Manoel da 
Costa, falecido, mas que o cura da época não registrou, como era costume, se 
ele era solteiro ou viúvo e de quem ele era viúvo, e nem a idade provável que o 
defunto teria.


5- Não há registro de eventual segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa após 
eventual morte de sua mulher, Bárbara da Ponte.


Então, o que há de registro em Maia são apenas duas certidões de casamento de 
seu filho Manoel da Costa Carreiro, a primeira com Izabel da Costa e a segunda 
com Maria Ferreira, casamento esse, aliás, que se deu pouquíssimo tempo depois 
da morte da primeira mulher, o que para mim não é estranho, porque notei que 
homens viúvos não permaneciam viúvos de modo algum.


Outra coisa que notei, é que certas freguesias tem preferências por alguns 
nomes de mulheres. Emília, por exemplo, você não encontra muitas Emílias por 
ai. Mas em Rosto do Cão vocês as encontra em grande número. E eu percebi isso 
porque leio muitos e muitos registros em minhas pesquisas, e uma de minhas 
ancestrais, Emília Júlia Carreiro, é de Rosto do Cão. Quando fui procura-la, 
por ser um nome "incomum", pensei que a encontraria logo, mas não foi assim, 
havia muitas e muitas Emílias ali. Bárbara parece ser um desses casos em 
Ribeira Seca.


Como último fato, Manoel da Costa Carreiro, descendente dos dois Manoéis sobre 
quem falamos até agora, casou-se em Ribeira Seca em 1710, com Maria da 
Ressurreição. Será que ele não teria primos, ou algo que o levassem até lá.


Primeiro, quero confessar que me frustraria muito chegar ao fim da minha 
linhagem masculina e não conseguir avançar por conta de não haver mais 
documentos, mas foi a mesma frustração que senti ao ver que minha linhagem 
masculina não é Pimentel, como pensei que fosse.


Mas de um modo ou de outro, a delícia do que fazemos me parece que é justamente 
isso, pesquisar, levantar hipóteses, testá-las e ir compreendendo o mundo em 
que viveram nossos antepassados, porque senão, nós seríamos meros 
colecionadores de nomes.


Estou fazendo pesquisas na Ribeira Seca ao invés de seguir em Maia, primeiro, 
porque ali não encontrarei respostas, e em segundo lugar, porque construí uma 
hipótese que me parece plausível.


Se conseguir avançar em algo, conto para vocês.


Um abraço,


Cesar Pimentel
cesarpimentel@hotmail.com




Jr,

Yes, just as the first marriage certificate of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and 
Isabel da Costa. However, what intrigues me?


1- There is no record of the birth of any child of the couple Manoel da Costa 
and Barbara da Ponte . Even though the first record of birth is available in 
Maya 1665, imagining that Manoel was born around 1655.


2- There is the record of any marriage of any children the couple Manoel da 
Costa and Barbara da Costa may have had , Which must Indicate :
a) They did not have more children ( Which Could be confirmed by the absence of 
registration of births )- I think a very unlikely hypothesis for the time ;
b ) They had children, but none of the children is casou- Which seems equally 
unlikely ;

3- There is no Barbara death record

4- There is no record of reliable death of Manoel da Costa. There is a single 
record , on 10/02/1698 , which I have used as a reference base, of Manoel da 
Costa , who died , but that the curing time not recorded , as was the custom , 
if he was single or widowed and whom he was a widower , nor the probable age 
that the deceased would have .

5- There is no any record second marriage of Manoel da Costa after eventual 
death of his wife, Barbara da Ponte.

So what's record in Maia are only two marriage certificates of his son Manoel 
da Costa Carreiro, the first with Izabel da Costa and the second with Maria 
Ferreira, marriage this, moreover, that took little time after the death of 
first woman, which to me is not strange, because I noticed that widowers 
remained widowers not at all.

Another thing; I noticed is that some parishes have preferences for some 
women's names. Emilia, for example, you do not find many 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

[Cesar Pimentel]

JR,

Esta pode ser a certidão do Manoel casado com a Bárbara. Mas de novo, qual a 
segurança de se admitir isso?

Cesar.

De: azores@googlegroups.com  em nome de JR 

Enviado: terça-feira, 12 de julho de 2016 08:35:44
Para: Azores Genealogy
Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

Acho que este é obito de Manuel Costa Carreiro cc Isabel da Costa 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-O-1694-1741/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-O-1694-1741_item1/P98.html

Óbitos RGSP , em Abril de 25 a 1726, faleceu , Mel da Costa Carreiro ( Bartao 
na margem ) , de Idade de outenta annos , nao fez testamento...

Registro não indicar o nome da esposa

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:27 AM, JR 
> wrote:

O segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa a Maria Ferreira, agosto 26- 1702, diz 
que nubentes foram batizados em Maia, " Onde os contrahentes foi baptizados. "


The second marriage of Manoel da Costa to Maria Ferreira, Aug 26- 1702, says 
both newllyweds were baptised  in Maia, "onde os contrahentes foi baptizados."


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704_item1/P73.html

JR

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 6:45:04 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:

Yes JR, is what I'm doing, because there is no death of any child of this 
couple in Maya, or the death of Barbara da Ponte and there is no reliable death 
of Manoel da Costa also.


Another thing; I noticed is that with regard to female names, certain parishes 
prefer one to another . For example , Emilia. Where I found many Emilias ? In 
Rosto do Cão, where he sought my ancestress Emilia.


Barbara and Agada seems to be a preference of Ribeira Seca. I tell you if 
successful.


Hugs!

Cesar Pimentel

cesarpim...@hotmail.com



De: JR 
Enviado: domingo, 10 de julho de 2016 18:33
Para: Azores Genealogy
Cc: cesarpim...@hotmail.com
Assunto: Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

The Pontes of Maia are most likely related to the Pontes of Ribeira Grande and 
may even originate there. The Ponte Vidals of Maia almost certainly originate 
in Ribeira Grande and go back to pre-1600. But this is difficult to prove 
definitively.

When it come to end of line ancestors (end of records), we all face the same 
situation. We cannot go back any further. There are many examples where it 
appears a couple have only one surviving child. Because we may find one 
marriage. But my experience is that they usually had many children but only one 
survived and married, or we have no further information to link other people. 
Your only available choice is to look in Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca where 
there are pre-1660 baptisms. It is possible they lived in said places and 
eventually settled in Maia. In said villages, you will see a some references to 
Ribeirinha, a small villa just outside the main village. But there are no 
separate records for the older period of pre-1700, so again you have to look in 
Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca records.

JR



On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 8:07:25 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:

Hello guys,


Thus it is that down the couple Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) and Barbara da Ponte.


The difficulty in moving beyond this couple is that I have wanted for his life 
in Maia, and the earliest record of birth available there is 1665.


Well, here comes my doubts.


I also found the death of Manoel da Costa, Miller, occurred on 10/02/1698 in 
Maia, and that death is said that Manoel was buried in the grave of his father, 
Gaspar Lourensso (written with two "s" there ).


But how to make sure that this Manoel da Costa is even Manoel da Costa father 
of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and would have been married to Barbara da Costa?


I noticed a funny thing.


I looked ALL marriages registered in Maia, I began searching for a possible 
second marriage of Manoel da Costa, to see if, seeking in deaths, could find a 
death some Manoel someone widower, I would not have noticed, but what really 
got me It caught my attention is that in addition to her son's wedding, Manoel 
da Costa Carreiro with Izabel da Costa and then Maria Ferreira, there is no 
other wedding any other son of Manuel and Barbara.


It is not strange that? In those years an only child.


Reviewing Manoel marriage certificate Carreiro da Costa with Izabel da Costa, 
it is said that all were Maia, but in fact, the wording is ambiguous, may or 
may not be all but a few.


Is it not possible, in my view, that seek birth more children couple Manuel and 
Barbara Maia because the records do not make possible, but weddings, ah, that 
if there were, it would appear.


For now, my conclusion is that Manuel and Barbara couple did not live in Maia, 
but in some other place, and that would explain even not find even Barbara's 
death record , which 

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte

[JR]

O segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa a Maria Ferreira, agosto 26- 1702, diz 
que nubentes foram batizados em Maia, " Onde os contrahentes foi baptizados. "


The second marriage of Manoel da Costa to Maria Ferreira, Aug 26- 1702, says 
both newllyweds were baptised  in Maia, "onde os contrahentes foi baptizados."


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704_item1/P73.html

JR

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 6:45:04 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote:
>
> Yes JR, is what I'm doing, because there is no death of any child of this 
> couple in Maya, or the death of Barbara da Ponte and there is no reliable 
> death of Manoel da Costa also.
>
>
> Another thing; I noticed is that with regard to female names, certain 
> parishes prefer one to another . For example , Emilia. Where I found many 
> Emilias ? In Rosto do Cão, where he sought my ancestress Emilia. 
>
>
> Barbara and Agada seems to be a preference of Ribeira Seca. I tell you if 
> successful.
>
>
> Hugs!
>
> Cesar Pimentel
>
> cesarpim...@hotmail.com 
>
>
> --
> *De:* JR 
> *Enviado:* domingo, 10 de julho de 2016 18:33
> *Para:* Azores Genealogy
> *Cc:* cesarpim...@hotmail.com 
> *Assunto:* Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte 
>  
> The Pontes of Maia are most likely related to the Pontes of Ribeira Grande 
> and may even originate there. The Ponte Vidals of Maia almost certainly 
> originate in Ribeira Grande and go back to pre-1600. But this is difficult 
> to prove definitively.  
>
> When it come to end of line ancestors (end of records), we all face the 
> same situation. We cannot go back any further. There are many examples 
> where it appears a couple have only one surviving child. Because we may 
> find one marriage. But my experience is that they usually had many children 
> but only one survived and married, or we have no further information to 
> link other people. Your only available choice is to look in Ribeira Grande 
> or Ribeira Seca where there are pre-1660 baptisms. It is possible they 
> lived in said places and eventually settled in Maia. In said villages, you 
> will see a some references to Ribeirinha, a small villa just outside the 
> main village. But there are no separate records for the older period of 
> pre-1700, so again you have to look in Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca 
> records.
>
> JR
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 8:07:25 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote: 
>>
>> Hello guys,
>>
>>
>> Thus it is that down the couple Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) and Barbara da 
>> Ponte.
>>
>>
>> The difficulty in moving beyond this couple is that I have wanted for his 
>> life in Maia, and the earliest record of birth available there is 1665.
>>
>>
>> Well, here comes my doubts.
>>
>>
>> I also found the death of Manoel da Costa, Miller, occurred on 10/02/1698 
>> in Maia, and that death is said that Manoel was buried in the grave of his 
>> father, Gaspar Lourensso (written with two "s" there ).
>>
>>
>> But how to make sure that this Manoel da Costa is even Manoel da Costa 
>> father of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and would have been married to Barbara 
>> da Costa?
>>
>>
>> I noticed a funny thing.
>>
>>
>> I looked ALL marriages registered in Maia, I began searching for a 
>> possible second marriage of Manoel da Costa, to see if, seeking in deaths, 
>> could find a death some Manoel someone widower, I would not have noticed, 
>> but what really got me It caught my attention is that in addition to her 
>> son's wedding, Manoel da Costa Carreiro with Izabel da Costa and then Maria 
>> Ferreira, there is no other wedding any other son of Manuel and Barbara.
>>
>>
>> It is not strange that? In those years an only child.
>>
>>
>> Reviewing Manoel marriage certificate Carreiro da Costa with Izabel da 
>> Costa, it is said that all were Maia, but in fact, the wording is 
>> ambiguous, may or may not be all but a few.
>>
>>
>> Is it not possible, in my view, that seek birth more children couple 
>> Manuel and Barbara Maia because the records do not make possible, but 
>> weddings, ah, that if there were, it would appear.
>>
>>
>> For now, my conclusion is that Manuel and Barbara couple did not live in 
>> Maia, but in some other place, and that would explain even not find even 
>> Barbara's death record , which will not found it.
>>
>>
>> It's more or less what I wanted to share with you to start our 
>> conversation.
>>
>>
>> A hug and be happy to know it.
>>
>>
>> Cesar Pimentel
>>
>> cesarpim...@hotmail.com 
>>
>

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