RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Hi Janet, Wondering if you can find anything more in the US about your grandparents. *Does their marriage record include the names of their parents? *Have you looked for them in US Censuses? 1900, 10, 20, 30 have information about the year of immigration, and citizenship status. *If they became citizens (or filed papers), their documents would have the information about when they immigrated, the name of their ship, etc. *Do you have their deaths and/or obituaries - which could also have clarifying details? Best of luck and have a wonderful trip. -Original Message- From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 8:33 PM To: Azores Genealogy Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel Yes that is what I am hoping to find. They were married in the US. I have found a record of that. I have no idea when they emigrated to the US nor the port of entry. Such a mystery. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
There is a conflict with the grandparents of Mafalda. What do the baptisms of Sao Sebastioa about the grandparents names? JR On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 12:09:24 AM UTC-4, IslandRoutes wrote: > > Thank you so much for your responses! It's helped me get a little bit of > an idea of why he asked for emancipation. We can rule out that his father > recently died. He lived until 1888. > > I will be following Emilia's trail. Then I want to go back to the obitos > for Maia and make sure that these three children were the only ones who > survived. They are bit skimpy on details in the 1830s/1840s. I want to > make sure I'm not leaving any stones unturned. > > Thanks again! > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 7:47:03 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote: >> >> sorry, didn't address all your questions. >> >> It's unlikely he was disabled, if he were he wouldn't be able to pay the >> Courts with his allowance. Over there and in those days, payments were >> upfront. It took thousands of $$ to start a legal process. >> >> Regarding the wife's age, that is not so uncommon. Again, everything >> else would be a guess. But you will be able to make a better assessment >> once you complete the research on his wife and her family. >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
Thank you so much for your responses! It's helped me get a little bit of an idea of why he asked for emancipation. We can rule out that his father recently died. He lived until 1888. I will be following Emilia's trail. Then I want to go back to the obitos for Maia and make sure that these three children were the only ones who survived. They are bit skimpy on details in the 1830s/1840s. I want to make sure I'm not leaving any stones unturned. Thanks again! On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 7:47:03 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote: > > sorry, didn't address all your questions. > > It's unlikely he was disabled, if he were he wouldn't be able to pay the > Courts with his allowance. Over there and in those days, payments were > upfront. It took thousands of $$ to start a legal process. > > Regarding the wife's age, that is not so uncommon. Again, everything else > would be a guess. But you will be able to make a better assessment once you > complete the research on his wife and her family. > > Cheers, > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
sorry, didn't address all your questions. It's unlikely he was disabled, if he were he wouldn't be able to pay the Courts with his allowance. Over there and in those days, payments were upfront. It took thousands of $$ to start a legal process. Regarding the wife's age, that is not so uncommon. Again, everything else would be a guess. But you will be able to make a better assessment once you complete the research on his wife and her family. Cheers, On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Margaret Vicente < margaretvice...@gmail.com> wrote: > In most cases, yes. Emancipation is "freedom" from Paternal or Tutelage > hold. There is emancipation for slaves as well but it is not the case here, > > My guess, since he's almost 21, is that he was seeking his inheritance > portion of the parents' estate at emancipation time. Or, if the father > passed away around that time, then he could be looking not only for his > inheritance portion but also for freedom from estate liens and/or debt. > > > > > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:54 PM, IslandRoutes > wrote: > >> Mara and JR, >> I'll answer you both here. >> >> JR, no, I haven't looked for Emilia's parents in Faja de Baixo yet. I >> only started my search Sunday starting with the records in Sao Sebastiao. >> So, I have more work to do! >> >> Mara, >> >> This information is interesting. So, emancipation does have to do with >> someone who is not of legal age. Jose Jacintho de Braga was born 23 Sep >> 1846. The emancipation was 1867. Depending on the date, he would have >> been 21 or almost there. He didn't marry until October 1868, so clearly by >> then he was 22. >> >> Are their other reason that a person would need emancipation such as >> disability? >> >> According to the marriage record, the bride is 29 years old, 7 years >> older than the groom. Could there be an issue there somehow...either the >> father forbidding his marriage to this woman or maybe an arranged marriage >> (were they doing that in the Azores?) >> >> All very curious! As you said, the file has the answers we seek. I >> don't have access to it being in California. >> >> There's always some new mystery that pops up with researcher. >> >> Thank you all for your thoughts on this! >> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 5:51:24 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote: >>> >>> Cheri, >>> >>> The majority age in Portugal according to, [Codigo Civil de Seabra >>> (artigo 1058º) de 1867] was 21 years of age. >>> >>> Also and in accordance to the same Code, the age for marriage was: 16 >>> years of age for a man and 14 years of age for a woman. >>> >>> This information was obtained from a discussion in between interested >>> parties in geneall.net forum and from a legal adviser by the name of >>> Maria Benedita, through Marcio Coutinho. The thread is in Portuguese but >>> here linked for anyone's interest >>> >>> http://geneall.net/pt/forum/147140/idade-minima-para-o-casam >>> ento-no-sec-xix/ >>> >>> Regarding the notice of Emancipation. I don't think this is age related >>> simply because of the title: >>> Inventário de Jacinto José de Braga >>> >>> >>> This means that Jacinto's Estate will be inventoried by the serving >>> Tribunal Court of Ponta Delgada and Jose Jacinto de Braga. >>> >>> If Jose Jacinto de Braga is already 21 years old why would he be looking >>> for his emancipation? >>> >>> For an individual to file for emancipation, that same individual would >>> be the one to be inventoried to prove to the Court that he/she were able to >>> be on their own. It appears to me the right answer is in the file and it >>> would require someone to have a look to see what it was about. >>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > > > -- > Margaret M Vicente > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
In most cases, yes. Emancipation is "freedom" from Paternal or Tutelage hold. There is emancipation for slaves as well but it is not the case here, My guess, since he's almost 21, is that he was seeking his inheritance portion of the parents' estate at emancipation time. Or, if the father passed away around that time, then he could be looking not only for his inheritance portion but also for freedom from estate liens and/or debt. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:54 PM, IslandRoutes wrote: > Mara and JR, > I'll answer you both here. > > JR, no, I haven't looked for Emilia's parents in Faja de Baixo yet. I > only started my search Sunday starting with the records in Sao Sebastiao. > So, I have more work to do! > > Mara, > > This information is interesting. So, emancipation does have to do with > someone who is not of legal age. Jose Jacintho de Braga was born 23 Sep > 1846. The emancipation was 1867. Depending on the date, he would have > been 21 or almost there. He didn't marry until October 1868, so clearly by > then he was 22. > > Are their other reason that a person would need emancipation such as > disability? > > According to the marriage record, the bride is 29 years old, 7 years older > than the groom. Could there be an issue there somehow...either the father > forbidding his marriage to this woman or maybe an arranged marriage (were > they doing that in the Azores?) > > All very curious! As you said, the file has the answers we seek. I don't > have access to it being in California. > > There's always some new mystery that pops up with researcher. > > Thank you all for your thoughts on this! > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 5:51:24 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote: >> >> Cheri, >> >> The majority age in Portugal according to, [Codigo Civil de Seabra >> (artigo 1058º) de 1867] was 21 years of age. >> >> Also and in accordance to the same Code, the age for marriage was: 16 >> years of age for a man and 14 years of age for a woman. >> >> This information was obtained from a discussion in between interested >> parties in geneall.net forum and from a legal adviser by the name of >> Maria Benedita, through Marcio Coutinho. The thread is in Portuguese but >> here linked for anyone's interest >> >> http://geneall.net/pt/forum/147140/idade-minima-para-o-casam >> ento-no-sec-xix/ >> >> Regarding the notice of Emancipation. I don't think this is age related >> simply because of the title: >> Inventário de Jacinto José de Braga >> >> >> This means that Jacinto's Estate will be inventoried by the serving >> Tribunal Court of Ponta Delgada and Jose Jacinto de Braga. >> >> If Jose Jacinto de Braga is already 21 years old why would he be looking >> for his emancipation? >> >> For an individual to file for emancipation, that same individual would be >> the one to be inventoried to prove to the Court that he/she were able to be >> on their own. It appears to me the right answer is in the file and it >> would require someone to have a look to see what it was about. >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
Mara and JR, I'll answer you both here. JR, no, I haven't looked for Emilia's parents in Faja de Baixo yet. I only started my search Sunday starting with the records in Sao Sebastiao. So, I have more work to do! Mara, This information is interesting. So, emancipation does have to do with someone who is not of legal age. Jose Jacintho de Braga was born 23 Sep 1846. The emancipation was 1867. Depending on the date, he would have been 21 or almost there. He didn't marry until October 1868, so clearly by then he was 22. Are their other reason that a person would need emancipation such as disability? According to the marriage record, the bride is 29 years old, 7 years older than the groom. Could there be an issue there somehow...either the father forbidding his marriage to this woman or maybe an arranged marriage (were they doing that in the Azores?) All very curious! As you said, the file has the answers we seek. I don't have access to it being in California. There's always some new mystery that pops up with researcher. Thank you all for your thoughts on this! On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 5:51:24 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote: > > Cheri, > > The majority age in Portugal according to, [Codigo Civil de Seabra (artigo > 1058º) > de 1867] was 21 years of age. > > Also and in accordance to the same Code, the age for marriage was: 16 > years of age for a man and 14 years of age for a woman. > > This information was obtained from a discussion in between interested > parties in geneall.net forum and from a legal adviser by the name of > Maria Benedita, through Marcio Coutinho. The thread is in Portuguese but > here linked for anyone's interest > > > http://geneall.net/pt/forum/147140/idade-minima-para-o-casamento-no-sec-xix/ > > Regarding the notice of Emancipation. I don't think this is age related > simply because of the title: > Inventário de Jacinto José de Braga > > > This means that Jacinto's Estate will be inventoried by the serving > Tribunal Court of Ponta Delgada and Jose Jacinto de Braga. > > If Jose Jacinto de Braga is already 21 years old why would he be looking > for his emancipation? > > For an individual to file for emancipation, that same individual would be > the one to be inventoried to prove to the Court that he/she were able to be > on their own. It appears to me the right answer is in the file and it > would require someone to have a look to see what it was about. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873
I'll keep those names in mind whenever I search through that Parish. Have you considered that Estrela may be a 'tag' name. In other words, a grandmother may have been called Estrela or Maria da Estrela while the husband may be "Sousa" ? On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:17 PM, Herb wrote: > As best as I have been able to determine Margaret, my exposto Jose Sousa > Silva born 1871-1872 in NS Estrela Ribeira Grande, was probably the son of > an Antonio Sousa Estrela and Maria Rosa. I have not been able to learn who > raised him or who the parents of Antonio Sousa Estela were. I have poured > over hundreds of records. The answer may be right in front of me but I > don't see it. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
Do you have the marriage of Emilia's parents, said to be from Faja de Baixo? JR On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 5:19:01 PM UTC-4, IslandRoutes wrote: > > JR, > I think I may shift to Sao Jose and try the mother's village first. Their > are many obitos for Sao Sebastiao. It could be a needle in a haystack kind > of search through those records. > > I have gotten a few DNA matches recently who have ancestry in the Ponta > Delgada area and none in any of the villages that I have ancestry in. Now > I wonder if Jose Jacintho de Braga may be the common link. > > > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-7, JR wrote: >> >> I notice Emilia was baptised in Sao Jose de Ponta Delgada and her parents >> are from Fenais de Baixo. Why not try those places to see if is that where >> they settled. >> >> JR >> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: >>> >>> I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for >>> emancipation from his father. >>> >>> Cheri Mello >>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>> >>> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:44 AM, IslandRoutes >>> wrote: >>> This is a neat little discovery for me that I had to share. I think some others are also interested in the de Braga family of Maia, Ribeira Grande. Jacintho Jose de Braga, (b. 21 Sep 1806), Maia m. 26 Aug 1829, Maia to Rosa de Medeiros Pacehco (b. 4 Mar 1810, Maia) had 10 known children. Until now, I've only been able to prove that Jozimas (my gr gr grandfather) and his sister, Jacintha Roza, made it to adulthood and had families. Now, I can add their brother, Jose Jacintho de Braga (b. 23 Sep 1846, Maia) to the list. Jose moved to Ponta Delgada. He married Emilia Augusta de Medeiros 8 Oct 1868, Sao Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel Island. Emilia was the daughter of Agosthinho de Medeiros and Mafalda da Assumpcao. Emilia was born ca 1839, Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. If the marriage record is right, she was 7 years older that Jose. Jose and Emilia had at least two children: 1. Toribio baptized 10 Jan 1870, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada 2. Jose, b. 24 Jul 1872, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada Jose was recorded in his marriage under the surname Pacheco, but under the surname de Braga for his son's baptismals. At that point the trail goes cold. I haven't found anymore children in Sao Sebastiao. I also have not found Toribio or Jose's marriages or any children baptized with them as parents. I haven't gone through the obitos yet. I'm hoping they survived. Now my question, I was searching the arquivo website yesterday and came across a curious entry for Jose Jacintho de Braga. I know the records aren't online, but was hoping someone can give me an idea of what this file refers to: http://www.arquivos.azores.gov.pt/details?id=1029225&ht=jose%7Cjacinto%7Cde%7Cbraga In case the link doesn't work the notes read: "Autos cíveis de petição para emancipação. Requerente residente em Ponta Delgada." What does this refer to? The file is for Jose Jacintho but under recipient it says "Jacintho Jose de Braga", which I believe refers to his father. Thanks for the assistance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873
As best as I have been able to determine Margaret, my exposto Jose Sousa Silva born 1871-1872 in NS Estrela Ribeira Grande, was probably the son of an Antonio Sousa Estrela and Maria Rosa. I have not been able to learn who raised him or who the parents of Antonio Sousa Estela were. I have poured over hundreds of records. The answer may be right in front of me but I don't see it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
The archive in Ponta Delgada will plop her down in front of a computer to look at 1800s records. Same thing she could do from home. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Rosemarie Capodicci wrote: > Great, Janet. If you relative speaks Portuguese then you have a head > start. You will want to find the baptismal records for your grandparents > and their marriage record. If you can get back to 1911 then you can use the > online records that Cheri mentioned. You can learn to read the records, it > takes time but you can do it if you are willing to try! Good luck and have > fun on your trip! > > Rosemarie > rcap...@gmail.com > Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores, > Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Janet wrote: > >> Thank you for your response. I hope to find their birth records and see >> where they were born and lived. Maybe I will be very lucky and find >> relatives too. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Yes that is what I am hoping to find. They were married in the US. I have found a record of that. I have no idea when they emigrated to the US nor the port of entry. Such a mystery. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
Cheri, The majority age in Portugal according to, [Codigo Civil de Seabra (artigo 1058º) de 1867] was 21 years of age. Also and in accordance to the same Code, the age for marriage was: 16 years of age for a man and 14 years of age for a woman. This information was obtained from a discussion in between interested parties in geneall.net forum and from a legal adviser by the name of Maria Benedita, through Marcio Coutinho. The thread is in Portuguese but here linked for anyone's interest http://geneall.net/pt/forum/147140/idade-minima-para-o-casamento-no-sec-xix/ Regarding the notice of Emancipation. I don't think this is age related simply because of the title: Inventário de Jacinto José de Braga This means that Jacinto's Estate will be inventoried by the serving Tribunal Court of Ponta Delgada and Jose Jacinto de Braga. If Jose Jacinto de Braga is already 21 years old why would he be looking for his emancipation? For an individual to file for emancipation, that same individual would be the one to be inventoried to prove to the Court that he/she were able to be on their own. It appears to me the right answer is in the file and it would require someone to have a look to see what it was about. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Cheri Mello wrote: > I don't remember the majority age for a man to get married back then. > Maybe he wasn't majority age to get married so he is filing emancipation? > Hopefully someone else knows more about this topic and can chime in. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:15 PM, IslandRoutes > wrote: > >> Cheri, >> That's how I read it. But, if so, why? Could it have something to do >> with him being the oldest surviving son and moving away from Maia to Ponta >> Delgada to get married? >> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >>> >>> I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for >>> emancipation from his father. >>> >>> Cheri Mello >>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
Manuel is the most common male name. You can find a Manuel in just about every freguesia on all 9 Azores islands around the time period you are seeking. The Manuel you found has 2 parents who are married. That is not your Manuel. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Sean Andrade wrote: > Thanks everyone for the help and input! > > I'm sure this is totally coincidental but I found this baptism for a > Manuel a few days earlier that said he was baptized at home, but lists no > god parents. I'm still not great at translating but I believe that is says > he then died. It is on the bottom left: http://www.culturacores. > azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B- > 1793-1812/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B-1793-1812_item1/P78.html > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 10:50:55 AM UTC-7, Mara wrote: >> >> Sean, >> >> Your question: >> do you think the godparents were the original godparents from the baptism >> mentioned on the note? >> >> No, they were not. If they were, the attending Priest would not have >> baptised the child again. Why? because they would be confirmed witnesses to >> the first baptism and as a result this record would not have been issued. >> >> Who were they? Could be regular Church attending parishioners or they >> could make part of the family who will be nursing the baby. >> >> Home baptisms usually did not have Godparents. One person with some >> Christening knowledge would perform it but in the majority of the cases >> they were done by the midwife. In such cases the Godparent would be named >> by the Priest when performing the anointment ceremony in the Church. >> >> If you are certain this is your Manuel and want to follow up on the >> Godparents you will have to search through baptism and marriage records to >> observe a) if any of them are nursing abandoned babies. But this may prove >> to be fruitless, for children were given to nursemaids in other villages to >> be raised as well. >> >> If you collect all the baptism records for Manuel Jose de Araujo and his >> wife, you will learn more about him this way. >> >> In my research I have come across Expostos, marrying into the family that >> brought them up or helped him along the way. >> >> Unfortunately, unless a parent claims the child, there's no way of going >> further back. >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Sean Andrade >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the information. My next question is do you think the >>> godparents were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the >>> note? Which means perhaps there is another baptism record. Or do you think >>> those god parents are from the second baptism and who would those people be >>> in relation to Manuel? Just random people picked by the church? >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record did not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it was a church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage and death records both say pais incognitos. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy < azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta > try to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! > Good luck! > > Jeremy > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Margaret M Vicente >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873
Indeed, Herb! Too similar, the other Antonio was of incognito parents but there may be a correlation here. If a Silva Carnario family was raising these kids they may have taken on the surname. Were you able to confirm who it was that nursed and raised your ancestor? On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Herb wrote: > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- > RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846_item1/P143.html > > Margaret all this talk about Antonio Silva Canario reminds me of the one > in the URL above. He was the padrinho to all of my exposto great > grandfather's kids. > > Herb > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Great, Janet. If you relative speaks Portuguese then you have a head start. You will want to find the baptismal records for your grandparents and their marriage record. If you can get back to 1911 then you can use the online records that Cheri mentioned. You can learn to read the records, it takes time but you can do it if you are willing to try! Good luck and have fun on your trip! Rosemarie rcap...@gmail.com Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores, Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Janet wrote: > Thank you for your response. I hope to find their birth records and see > where they were born and lived. Maybe I will be very lucky and find > relatives too. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
Thanks everyone for the help and input! I'm sure this is totally coincidental but I found this baptism for a Manuel a few days earlier that said he was baptized at home, but lists no god parents. I'm still not great at translating but I believe that is says he then died. It is on the bottom left: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B-1793-1812/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B-1793-1812_item1/P78.html On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 10:50:55 AM UTC-7, Mara wrote: > > Sean, > > Your question: > do you think the godparents were the original godparents from the baptism > mentioned on the note? > > No, they were not. If they were, the attending Priest would not have > baptised the child again. Why? because they would be confirmed witnesses to > the first baptism and as a result this record would not have been issued. > > Who were they? Could be regular Church attending parishioners or they > could make part of the family who will be nursing the baby. > > Home baptisms usually did not have Godparents. One person with some > Christening knowledge would perform it but in the majority of the cases > they were done by the midwife. In such cases the Godparent would be named > by the Priest when performing the anointment ceremony in the Church. > > If you are certain this is your Manuel and want to follow up on the > Godparents you will have to search through baptism and marriage records to > observe a) if any of them are nursing abandoned babies. But this may prove > to be fruitless, for children were given to nursemaids in other villages to > be raised as well. > > If you collect all the baptism records for Manuel Jose de Araujo and his > wife, you will learn more about him this way. > > In my research I have come across Expostos, marrying into the family that > brought them up or helped him along the way. > > Unfortunately, unless a parent claims the child, there's no way of going > further back. > > > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Sean Andrade > wrote: > >> Thanks for the information. My next question is do you think the >> godparents were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the >> note? Which means perhaps there is another baptism record. Or do you think >> those god parents are from the second baptism and who would those people be >> in relation to Manuel? Just random people picked by the church? >> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >>> >>> Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record >>> did not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it >>> was a church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage >>> and death records both say pais incognitos. >>> >>> Cheri Mello >>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>> >>> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy < >>> azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta try to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! Good luck! Jeremy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > > > -- > Margaret M Vicente > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Thank you for your response. I hope to find their birth records and see where they were born and lived. Maybe I will be very lucky and find relatives too. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Thank you for your reply. I am sure I will enjoy my time there. My ancestors were born in the 1800's. I will be traveling with a relative who speaks Portuguese so she will be able to assist me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on record Ribeirinha Sao Miguel 1873
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1844-1846_item1/P143.html Margaret all this talk about Antonio Silva Canario reminds me of the one in the URL above. He was the padrinho to all of my exposto great grandfather's kids. Herb -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
I don't remember the majority age for a man to get married back then. Maybe he wasn't majority age to get married so he is filing emancipation? Hopefully someone else knows more about this topic and can chime in. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:15 PM, IslandRoutes wrote: > Cheri, > That's how I read it. But, if so, why? Could it have something to do > with him being the oldest surviving son and moving away from Maia to Ponta > Delgada to get married? > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >> >> I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for >> emancipation from his father. >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
JR, I think I may shift to Sao Jose and try the mother's village first. Their are many obitos for Sao Sebastiao. It could be a needle in a haystack kind of search through those records. I have gotten a few DNA matches recently who have ancestry in the Ponta Delgada area and none in any of the villages that I have ancestry in. Now I wonder if Jose Jacintho de Braga may be the common link. On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-7, JR wrote: > > I notice Emilia was baptised in Sao Jose de Ponta Delgada and her parents > are from Fenais de Baixo. Why not try those places to see if is that where > they settled. > > JR > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: >> >> I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for >> emancipation from his father. >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:44 AM, IslandRoutes >> wrote: >> >>> This is a neat little discovery for me that I had to share. I think >>> some others are also interested in the de Braga family of Maia, Ribeira >>> Grande. >>> >>> Jacintho Jose de Braga, (b. 21 Sep 1806), Maia m. 26 Aug 1829, Maia to >>> Rosa de Medeiros Pacehco (b. 4 Mar 1810, Maia) had 10 known children. >>> Until now, I've only been able to prove that Jozimas (my gr gr grandfather) >>> and his sister, Jacintha Roza, made it to adulthood and had families. >>> >>> Now, I can add their brother, Jose Jacintho de Braga (b. 23 Sep 1846, >>> Maia) to the list. Jose moved to Ponta Delgada. He married Emilia Augusta >>> de Medeiros 8 Oct 1868, Sao Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel Island. >>> Emilia was the daughter of Agosthinho de Medeiros and Mafalda da >>> Assumpcao. Emilia was born ca 1839, Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. If the >>> marriage record is right, she was 7 years older that Jose. >>> >>> Jose and Emilia had at least two children: >>> 1. Toribio baptized 10 Jan 1870, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada >>> 2. Jose, b. 24 Jul 1872, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada >>> >>> Jose was recorded in his marriage under the surname Pacheco, but under >>> the surname de Braga for his son's baptismals. >>> >>> At that point the trail goes cold. I haven't found anymore children in >>> Sao Sebastiao. I also have not found Toribio or Jose's marriages or any >>> children baptized with them as parents. I haven't gone through the obitos >>> yet. I'm hoping they survived. >>> >>> Now my question, I was searching the arquivo website yesterday and came >>> across a curious entry for Jose Jacintho de Braga. I know the records >>> aren't online, but was hoping someone can give me an idea of what this file >>> refers to: >>> http://www.arquivos.azores.gov.pt/details?id=1029225&ht=jose%7Cjacinto%7Cde%7Cbraga >>> >>> In case the link doesn't work the notes read: >>> "Autos cíveis de petição para emancipação. Requerente residente em >>> Ponta Delgada." >>> >>> What does this refer to? The file is for Jose Jacintho but under >>> recipient it says "Jacintho Jose de Braga", which I believe refers to his >>> father. >>> >>> Thanks for the assistance! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
Cheri, That's how I read it. But, if so, why? Could it have something to do with him being the oldest surviving son and moving away from Maia to Ponta Delgada to get married? On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:25:52 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: > > I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for > emancipation from his father. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
I notice Emilia was baptised in Sao Jose de Ponta Delgada and her parents are from Fenais de Baixo. Why not try those places to see if is that where they settled. JR On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: > > I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for > emancipation from his father. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:44 AM, IslandRoutes > wrote: > >> This is a neat little discovery for me that I had to share. I think some >> others are also interested in the de Braga family of Maia, Ribeira Grande. >> >> Jacintho Jose de Braga, (b. 21 Sep 1806), Maia m. 26 Aug 1829, Maia to >> Rosa de Medeiros Pacehco (b. 4 Mar 1810, Maia) had 10 known children. >> Until now, I've only been able to prove that Jozimas (my gr gr grandfather) >> and his sister, Jacintha Roza, made it to adulthood and had families. >> >> Now, I can add their brother, Jose Jacintho de Braga (b. 23 Sep 1846, >> Maia) to the list. Jose moved to Ponta Delgada. He married Emilia Augusta >> de Medeiros 8 Oct 1868, Sao Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel Island. >> Emilia was the daughter of Agosthinho de Medeiros and Mafalda da >> Assumpcao. Emilia was born ca 1839, Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. If the >> marriage record is right, she was 7 years older that Jose. >> >> Jose and Emilia had at least two children: >> 1. Toribio baptized 10 Jan 1870, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada >> 2. Jose, b. 24 Jul 1872, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada >> >> Jose was recorded in his marriage under the surname Pacheco, but under >> the surname de Braga for his son's baptismals. >> >> At that point the trail goes cold. I haven't found anymore children in >> Sao Sebastiao. I also have not found Toribio or Jose's marriages or any >> children baptized with them as parents. I haven't gone through the obitos >> yet. I'm hoping they survived. >> >> Now my question, I was searching the arquivo website yesterday and came >> across a curious entry for Jose Jacintho de Braga. I know the records >> aren't online, but was hoping someone can give me an idea of what this file >> refers to: >> http://www.arquivos.azores.gov.pt/details?id=1029225&ht=jose%7Cjacinto%7Cde%7Cbraga >> >> In case the link doesn't work the notes read: >> "Autos cíveis de petição para emancipação. Requerente residente em Ponta >> Delgada." >> >> What does this refer to? The file is for Jose Jacintho but under >> recipient it says "Jacintho Jose de Braga", which I believe refers to his >> father. >> >> Thanks for the assistance! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
I read that (with my limited Portuguese) as Jose is filing for emancipation from his father. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:44 AM, IslandRoutes wrote: > This is a neat little discovery for me that I had to share. I think some > others are also interested in the de Braga family of Maia, Ribeira Grande. > > Jacintho Jose de Braga, (b. 21 Sep 1806), Maia m. 26 Aug 1829, Maia to > Rosa de Medeiros Pacehco (b. 4 Mar 1810, Maia) had 10 known children. > Until now, I've only been able to prove that Jozimas (my gr gr grandfather) > and his sister, Jacintha Roza, made it to adulthood and had families. > > Now, I can add their brother, Jose Jacintho de Braga (b. 23 Sep 1846, > Maia) to the list. Jose moved to Ponta Delgada. He married Emilia Augusta > de Medeiros 8 Oct 1868, Sao Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel Island. > Emilia was the daughter of Agosthinho de Medeiros and Mafalda da > Assumpcao. Emilia was born ca 1839, Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. If the > marriage record is right, she was 7 years older that Jose. > > Jose and Emilia had at least two children: > 1. Toribio baptized 10 Jan 1870, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada > 2. Jose, b. 24 Jul 1872, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada > > Jose was recorded in his marriage under the surname Pacheco, but under the > surname de Braga for his son's baptismals. > > At that point the trail goes cold. I haven't found anymore children in > Sao Sebastiao. I also have not found Toribio or Jose's marriages or any > children baptized with them as parents. I haven't gone through the obitos > yet. I'm hoping they survived. > > Now my question, I was searching the arquivo website yesterday and came > across a curious entry for Jose Jacintho de Braga. I know the records > aren't online, but was hoping someone can give me an idea of what this file > refers to: http://www.arquivos.azores.gov.pt/details?id=1029225&ht= > jose%7Cjacinto%7Cde%7Cbraga > > In case the link doesn't work the notes read: > "Autos cíveis de petição para emancipação. Requerente residente em Ponta > Delgada." > > What does this refer to? The file is for Jose Jacintho but under recipient > it says "Jacintho Jose de Braga", which I believe refers to his father. > > Thanks for the assistance! > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
SAN Miguel island is one of the Channel Islands off the coast of California in the Pacific Ocean. No one lives there. SAO Miguel island is one of the Azores Islands in the Atlantic Ocean. It's an autonomous region of Portugal. Since I have no clue if you are a 25 year old in search of her grandparents (maybe born in the 1930s) or a 70 year old in search of her grandparents (maybe born in the late 1800s) I don't know where to tell you to look. Records before 1911 are online at the CCA (use tombo.pt/en). Records after 1911 are mostly at the Civil Registry. If you do not read Portuguese records yet, you aren't going to have any success. No one there is going to sit down and translate them for you. Paid translators are around $20-$25 an document on up. If you have absolutely no knowledge of the Portuguese language, I'd spend my time sight-seeing. Good luck and enjoy your trip! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Janet, since you are going to be in SAO Miguel, you should look for your grandparent's baptismal/birth records first. Once you have those records (depending on the age of your grandparents) you may be able to connect with the online records which go to 1911. Rosemarie rcap...@gmail.com Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores, Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Janet wrote: > Hello. New to group. I will be going to San Miguel soon and hope to look > up family history. Any helpful hints? I have names and places and approx > dates of birth of my grandparents. Unfortunately I do not speak > Portuguese. Thanks for assistance. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] SAN Miguel
Hello. New to group. I will be going to San Miguel soon and hope to look up family history. Any helpful hints? I have names and places and approx dates of birth of my grandparents. Unfortunately I do not speak Portuguese. Thanks for assistance. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
Sean, Your question: do you think the godparents were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the note? No, they were not. If they were, the attending Priest would not have baptised the child again. Why? because they would be confirmed witnesses to the first baptism and as a result this record would not have been issued. Who were they? Could be regular Church attending parishioners or they could make part of the family who will be nursing the baby. Home baptisms usually did not have Godparents. One person with some Christening knowledge would perform it but in the majority of the cases they were done by the midwife. In such cases the Godparent would be named by the Priest when performing the anointment ceremony in the Church. If you are certain this is your Manuel and want to follow up on the Godparents you will have to search through baptism and marriage records to observe a) if any of them are nursing abandoned babies. But this may prove to be fruitless, for children were given to nursemaids in other villages to be raised as well. If you collect all the baptism records for Manuel Jose de Araujo and his wife, you will learn more about him this way. In my research I have come across Expostos, marrying into the family that brought them up or helped him along the way. Unfortunately, unless a parent claims the child, there's no way of going further back. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Sean Andrade wrote: > Thanks for the information. My next question is do you think the > godparents were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the > note? Which means perhaps there is another baptism record. Or do you think > those god parents are from the second baptism and who would those people be > in relation to Manuel? Just random people picked by the church? > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >> >> Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record >> did not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it >> was a church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage >> and death records both say pais incognitos. >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy < >> azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta >>> try to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
But, if these were the same godparents (or even the same village) wouldn't they and/or the priest know the parents ? Thus, eliminating the condition of "pais incognitos." This is a tough situation. Gayle > On May 23, 2017, at 9:45 AM, Sean Andrade wrote: > > Thanks for the information. My next question is do you think the godparents > were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the note? Which > means perhaps there is another baptism record. Or do you think those god > parents are from the second baptism and who would those people be in relation > to Manuel? Just random people picked by the church? > >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >> Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record did >> not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it was a >> church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage and >> death records both say pais incognitos. >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >>> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy >>> wrote: >>> That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta try >>> to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Jozimas de Braga's brother found in Ponta Delgada question about inventario entry
This is a neat little discovery for me that I had to share. I think some others are also interested in the de Braga family of Maia, Ribeira Grande. Jacintho Jose de Braga, (b. 21 Sep 1806), Maia m. 26 Aug 1829, Maia to Rosa de Medeiros Pacehco (b. 4 Mar 1810, Maia) had 10 known children. Until now, I've only been able to prove that Jozimas (my gr gr grandfather) and his sister, Jacintha Roza, made it to adulthood and had families. Now, I can add their brother, Jose Jacintho de Braga (b. 23 Sep 1846, Maia) to the list. Jose moved to Ponta Delgada. He married Emilia Augusta de Medeiros 8 Oct 1868, Sao Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel Island. Emilia was the daughter of Agosthinho de Medeiros and Mafalda da Assumpcao. Emilia was born ca 1839, Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. If the marriage record is right, she was 7 years older that Jose. Jose and Emilia had at least two children: 1. Toribio baptized 10 Jan 1870, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada 2. Jose, b. 24 Jul 1872, Sao Sebastiao, P. Delgada Jose was recorded in his marriage under the surname Pacheco, but under the surname de Braga for his son's baptismals. At that point the trail goes cold. I haven't found anymore children in Sao Sebastiao. I also have not found Toribio or Jose's marriages or any children baptized with them as parents. I haven't gone through the obitos yet. I'm hoping they survived. Now my question, I was searching the arquivo website yesterday and came across a curious entry for Jose Jacintho de Braga. I know the records aren't online, but was hoping someone can give me an idea of what this file refers to: http://www.arquivos.azores.gov.pt/details?id=1029225&ht=jose%7Cjacinto%7Cde%7Cbraga In case the link doesn't work the notes read: "Autos cíveis de petição para emancipação. Requerente residente em Ponta Delgada." What does this refer to? The file is for Jose Jacintho but under recipient it says "Jacintho Jose de Braga", which I believe refers to his father. Thanks for the assistance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
It could be any of the scenarios you mentioned. If only the books could talk. But you know, they'd speak in Portuguese! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Sean Andrade wrote: > Thanks for the information. My next question is do you think the > godparents were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the > note? Which means perhaps there is another baptism record. Or do you think > those god parents are from the second baptism and who would those people be > in relation to Manuel? Just random people picked by the church? > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >> >> Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record >> did not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it >> was a church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage >> and death records both say pais incognitos. >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy < >> azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta >>> try to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
Thanks for the information. My next question is do you think the godparents were the original godparents from the baptism mentioned on the note? Which means perhaps there is another baptism record. Or do you think those god parents are from the second baptism and who would those people be in relation to Manuel? Just random people picked by the church? On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record > did not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it > was a church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage > and death records both say pais incognitos. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy < > azo...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta >> try to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! >> Good luck! >> >> Jeremy >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Searching Passport "Destinations"
Thanks CHERI. Maria Elena > On May 23, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Yeah, you'll see waves of people emigrating to a particular location. Pages > and pages. > > The passaportes were written by humans. Humans make mistakes. Could someone > going to America been in the pages of Brasil or Sandwich Isles (Hawaii) and > the agent goofed and wrote Brasil? Yup! > > But I think in the interest of time, I'd skip over them and hope for the best > and find the pages that say America. If the ancestral couple can't be found > then I'd wade through the pages of Brasil and Sandwich Isles. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > >> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 8:05 AM, Maria Lima wrote: >> Okay- it's probably a "dumb question" but here goes: >> >> If they applied for a passport for one country, was it customary and/or >> common that they would sail to another country? >> >> I noticed there are pages and pages of passports for Rio de Janeiro or >> Sandwich Islands. I'm looking for ancestor who went to America. Should I >> just skip over all the pages (names) that are not going to America? >> >> I hate to think I'll miss them because I'm trying to take a "short cut". >> >> This is for my friend who did sent have much info on her family. It would >> be great to find her ancestors freguesia in The Azores. >> >> >> >> Maria Elena >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Searching Passport "Destinations"
Yeah, you'll see waves of people emigrating to a particular location. Pages and pages. The passaportes were written by humans. Humans make mistakes. Could someone going to America been in the pages of Brasil or Sandwich Isles (Hawaii) and the agent goofed and wrote Brasil? Yup! But I think in the interest of time, I'd skip over them and hope for the best and find the pages that say America. If the ancestral couple can't be found then I'd wade through the pages of Brasil and Sandwich Isles. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 8:05 AM, Maria Lima wrote: > Okay- it's probably a "dumb question" but here goes: > > If they applied for a passport for one country, was it customary and/or > common that they would sail to another country? > > I noticed there are pages and pages of passports for Rio de Janeiro or > Sandwich Islands. I'm looking for ancestor who went to *America*. > Should I just skip over all the pages (names) that are not going to > America? > > I hate to think I'll miss them because I'm trying to take a "short cut". > > This is for my friend who did sent have much info on her family. It would > be great to find her ancestors freguesia in The Azores. > > > > Maria Elena > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
Maybe, maybe not. The baby could have been baptized at home. The record did not specify if it was a church baptism or one done at home. And if it was a church baptism, it will most likely say pais incognitos. The marriage and death records both say pais incognitos. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:56 AM, 'Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy < azores@googlegroups.com> wrote: > That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta try > to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! > Good luck! > > Jeremy > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
That may be one of the coolest records I have ever seen! Now you gotta try to look for the first baptism since it mentions that! Good luck! Jeremy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Searching Passport "Destinations"
Okay- it's probably a "dumb question" but here goes: If they applied for a passport for one country, was it customary and/or common that they would sail to another country? I noticed there are pages and pages of passports for Rio de Janeiro or Sandwich Islands. I'm looking for ancestor who went to America. Should I just skip over all the pages (names) that are not going to America? I hate to think I'll miss them because I'm trying to take a "short cut". This is for my friend who did sent have much info on her family. It would be great to find her ancestors freguesia in The Azores. Maria Elena -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Unknown Parents
Hi Sean and Gayle, Here's my take, Manuel son of incognito parents (exposto) exposed/left at the home of Jose da Silva parishioner of this Parochial Church of Nossa Senhora da Candelaria of Pico, on the 16th day of the month of of January of 1797. The Exposed brought a note that said he had been baptised and because I didn't read it and authenticate it, he was conditionally baptised by Reverend Joao Inacio de Macedo with our permission in this same Church on the 20th day of the said month and year. Godparents were Francisco da Sylveira (Silveira) Peixoto son of Luisa Francisca and Ana Thomazia (Tomasia) wife of Antonio da Silva, parishioner of this same Parish as it were other below signed witnesses On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 1:22 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy < azores@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Sean, > > I'm using my iPhone so it's a bit small. But, from what I see it does say > he was left at the home of Jose Silva and to be taken cared of for a period > of seven years. The date is 16 Jan 1797. The godparents are Francisco > Silveira Peixoto, son of Luisa Francisca, and Anna Thomasina, wife of > Antonio Silva. The other name I believe was the priest. Maybe someone with > a larger screen can complete the text for you. > > Gayle > > > On May 22, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Sean Andrade > wrote: > > Thank you you the information! > > Cheri, I read through John's postings and found it very helpful, I even > noticed Exposto in his obit. > > Gayle, I took your advice and searched for his birth record. I believe I > may have found it: > > Top Left: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ > digital/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B-1793-1812/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B- > 1793-1812_item1/P80.html > > I believe it says he was left at the house of Jose da Silva? > > I am having a difficult time trying to read what it says and I can't > understand most of it. I see there are quite a few names but I can't figure > out their relationships with everyone else > > On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 8:00:50 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: >> >> People can abandon their baby today. In my county and state, a baby can >> be left at a hospital or fire station, no questions asked. Back then, in >> the Azores, they left the baby at the church. Sometimes, they left the baby >> at someone's door step, but a lot of the time, it was the church. >> >> The reason is probably the same then as it is now. The mother was unwed. >> She cannot provide for the child (she's too young, she has no means to >> support the baby) or perhaps her parents made her give the baby up. >> >> If your ancestor's parents came forward it would be noted in his baptism >> margin or in a book of legitimizations. If it's not there, then his parents >> never claimed him. The city paid a family to raise him for 7 years. At that >> point, he could chose to remain with the family or make his own way. Many >> of these children did not live. >> >> John Raposo wrote about this a few months ago. You can find his post here >> https://goo.gl/OyLyJT or you can search the forum/web board archive for >> "exposto roda" (without the quotes) and you will find a lot about this >> subject. >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
