Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra demeninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
Wonderful thread and discussion everyone.  I have been so impressed with
the literacy and skills that are being shown through this search back in
time for my husbands ancestors from São Miguel and Madeira.

D


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 1:44 PM Ângela Loura  wrote:

> An interview about 'mestras':  http://portocanal.sapo.pt/noticia/163588/
>
> Cheri Mello  escreveu no dia sexta, 15/11/2019 à(s)
> 21:25:
>
>> Crafts can be many things. A really good plumber could master his craft
>> too. Maybe he'd be a mestre as well.
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 1:13 PM Margaret Vicente <
>> margaretvice...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Cheri, you can take it to mean as you wish but I disagree it covers just
>>> crafts.  Simply because I grew up with the term.  My Mom and Grandmother’s
>>> teacher was a Mestra, and that was Education, not crafts.
>>>
>>> The term is also used in English schools.  The Principal of the School
>>> was the Head Master.  Why do you think that is?
>>>
>>> Angela’s references first Edition is dated 1798— discussing Antiquated
>>> terminology prior to that time period. While the question posted was for
>>> *1870-1879*.  If antiquated back then how much more antiquated will it
>>> not be 72 years later?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A mestre / mestra is a teacher whether that be trades or education.
>>>
>>>
>>> mestra
>>> Significado de Mestra
>>>
>>> substantivo feminine Mulher que ensina ou leciona; professora.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Margaret
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>>> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 3:10 PM
>>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra
>>> demeninhos(as)"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who
>>> mastered her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back
>>> then,
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good
>>> housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta,
>>> 15/11/2019 à(s) 17:21:
>>>
>>> “Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means
>>> “School girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed
>>> classes did not exist back then.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Margaret v.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>>> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
>>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de
>>> meninhos(as)"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jessica,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is
>>> teacher (feminine).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure
>>> out if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is
>>> someone who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone
>>> who went to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used
>>> for a person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers
>>> can shed more light on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's
>>> in charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a
>>> girls' principal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi group!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It
>>> states that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or
>>> just girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
>>> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
>>> assuming mestra means teacher.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
>>> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jessica
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra demeninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Ângela Loura 
An interview about 'mestras':  http://portocanal.sapo.pt/noticia/163588/

Cheri Mello  escreveu no dia sexta, 15/11/2019 à(s)
21:25:

> Crafts can be many things. A really good plumber could master his craft
> too. Maybe he'd be a mestre as well.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 1:13 PM Margaret Vicente <
> margaretvice...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cheri, you can take it to mean as you wish but I disagree it covers just
>> crafts.  Simply because I grew up with the term.  My Mom and Grandmother’s
>> teacher was a Mestra, and that was Education, not crafts.
>>
>> The term is also used in English schools.  The Principal of the School
>> was the Head Master.  Why do you think that is?
>>
>> Angela’s references first Edition is dated 1798— discussing Antiquated
>> terminology prior to that time period. While the question posted was for
>> *1870-1879*.  If antiquated back then how much more antiquated will it
>> not be 72 years later?
>>
>>
>>
>> A mestre / mestra is a teacher whether that be trades or education.
>>
>>
>> mestra
>> Significado de Mestra
>>
>> substantivo feminine Mulher que ensina ou leciona; professora.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 3:10 PM
>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra
>> demeninhos(as)"?
>>
>>
>>
>> So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who
>> mastered her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back
>> then,
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good
>> housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...
>>
>>
>>
>> Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta,
>> 15/11/2019 à(s) 17:21:
>>
>> “Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means
>> “School girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed
>> classes did not exist back then.
>>
>>
>>
>> Margaret v.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de
>> meninhos(as)"?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jessica,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is
>> teacher (feminine).
>>
>>
>>
>> You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out
>> if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
>>
>>
>>
>> So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone
>> who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went
>> to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a
>> person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can
>> shed more light on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in
>> charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls'
>> principal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
>>
>> Hi group!
>>
>>
>>
>> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states
>> that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just
>> girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
>> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
>> assuming mestra means teacher.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
>> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jessica
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/55ccd547-0021-4dd6-9edd-98f5d2356a58%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra demeninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Cheri Mello 
Crafts can be many things. A really good plumber could master his craft
too. Maybe he'd be a mestre as well.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 1:13 PM Margaret Vicente 
wrote:

> Cheri, you can take it to mean as you wish but I disagree it covers just
> crafts.  Simply because I grew up with the term.  My Mom and Grandmother’s
> teacher was a Mestra, and that was Education, not crafts.
>
> The term is also used in English schools.  The Principal of the School was
> the Head Master.  Why do you think that is?
>
> Angela’s references first Edition is dated 1798— discussing Antiquated
> terminology prior to that time period. While the question posted was for
> *1870-1879*.  If antiquated back then how much more antiquated will it
> not be 72 years later?
>
>
>
> A mestre / mestra is a teacher whether that be trades or education.
>
>
> mestra
> Significado de Mestra
>
> substantivo feminine Mulher que ensina ou leciona; professora.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
> *From: *Cheri Mello 
> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 3:10 PM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra
> demeninhos(as)"?
>
>
>
> So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who
> mastered her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back
> then,
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura 
> wrote:
>
> Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good
> housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...
>
>
>
> Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta,
> 15/11/2019 à(s) 17:21:
>
> “Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means
> “School girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed
> classes did not exist back then.
>
>
>
> Margaret v.
>
>
>
> *From: *Cheri Mello 
> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de
> meninhos(as)"?
>
>
>
> Hi Jessica,
>
>
>
> Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is
> teacher (feminine).
>
>
>
> You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out
> if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
>
>
>
> So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone
> who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went
> to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a
> person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can
> shed more light on this.
>
>
>
> My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in
> charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls'
> principal.
>
>
>
> Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
>
> Hi group!
>
>
>
> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states
> that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just
> girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
> assuming mestra means teacher.
>
>
>
> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Jessica
>
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/55ccd547-0021-4dd6-9edd-98f5d2356a58%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_EPP5G_%3DO23ATnobM1S6BWVbsJ_rvAFX2gYVhLL7nYCzQ%40mail.gmail.com
>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy 
 Depending on the time and place (e.g. Bretanha in 1850) state run public 
primary schools were few and far between. So, some people who had some primary 
schooling (e.g. 2nd grade level) would set up a private school in their homes 
and charged tuition. These "mestres" taught the basics, as best they could. 
When official examiners for the state made inspections, they often wrote 
scathing reports about these uncertified teachers whom they classified as 
barely literate. Miguel Soares da Silva's book As Escolas de Santo Antonio e 
Santa Barbara, Nova Grafica, Ponta Delgada: 2008 and "Os Remedios no Contexto 
da Bretanha" in Memoria e Identidade: Paroquia de Nossa Senhora dos Remedios, 
Nova Grafica, Ponta Delgada: 2006, are great references.
I hope this helps.
John Miranda Raposo


   On Friday, November 15, 2019, 3:18:51 PM EST, Ângela Loura 
 wrote:  
 
 I take this opportunity, since some of these terms come all the way from the 
middle ages, to share with you 2 volumes of a book containing the meaning of 
old portuguese words, called Elucidário, it may be useful: http://purl.pt/13944
Cheri Mello  escreveu no dia sexta, 15/11/2019 à(s) 20:10:

So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who mastered 
her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back then,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura  wrote:

Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good 
housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...
Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta, 15/11/2019 
à(s) 17:21:


“Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means “School 
girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed classes did 
not exist back then.

 

Margaret v.

 

From: Cheri Mello
Sent: November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

 

Hi Jessica,

 

Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is teacher 
(feminine).

 

You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out if 
it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.

 

So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone who 
has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went to 
school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a person who 
is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can shed more light on 
this.

 

My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in 
charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls' 
principal. 

 

Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri

 

 

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

 

 

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:


Hi group!

 

For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states that 
the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just girls" I can't 
tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _. 

 

Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much 
schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm assuming 
mestra means teacher.

 

This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than "domestica" 
or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued. 

 

Thank you,

 

Jessica

 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra demeninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Margaret Vicente 
Cheri, you can take it to mean as you wish but I disagree it covers just 
crafts.  Simply because I grew up with the term.  My Mom and Grandmother’s 
teacher was a Mestra, and that was Education, not crafts. 
The term is also used in English schools.  The Principal of the School was the 
Head Master.  Why do you think that is? 
Angela’s references first Edition is dated 1798— discussing Antiquated 
terminology prior to that time period. While the question posted was for  
1870-1879.  If antiquated back then how much more antiquated will it not be 72 
years later?

A mestre / mestra is a teacher whether that be trades or education.

mestra
Significado de Mestra
substantivo feminine Mulher que ensina ou leciona; professora.


Best,
Margaret

From: Cheri Mello
Sent: November 15, 2019 3:10 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra demeninhos(as)"?

So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who mastered 
her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back then,

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura  wrote:
Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good 
housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...

Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta, 15/11/2019 
à(s) 17:21:
“Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means “School 
girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed classes did 
not exist back then.
 
Margaret v.
 
From: Cheri Mello
Sent: November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?
 
Hi Jessica,
 
Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is teacher 
(feminine).
 
You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out if 
it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
 
So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone who 
has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went to 
school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a person who 
is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can shed more light on 
this.
 
My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in 
charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls' 
principal. 
 
Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
 
 
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
 
 
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
Hi group!
 
For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states that 
the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just girls" I can't 
tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _. 
 
Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much 
schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm assuming 
mestra means teacher.
 
This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than "domestica" 
or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued. 
 
Thank you,
 
Jessica
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Ângela Loura 
I take this opportunity, since some of these terms come all the way from
the middle ages, to share with you 2 volumes of a book containing the
meaning of old portuguese words, called Elucidário, it may be useful:
http://purl.pt/13944

Cheri Mello  escreveu no dia sexta, 15/11/2019 à(s)
20:10:

> So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who
> mastered her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back
> then,
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura 
> wrote:
>
>> Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good
>> housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...
>>
>> Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta,
>> 15/11/2019 à(s) 17:21:
>>
>>> “Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means
>>> “School girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed
>>> classes did not exist back then.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Margaret v.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>>> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
>>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de
>>> meninhos(as)"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jessica,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is
>>> teacher (feminine).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure
>>> out if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is
>>> someone who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone
>>> who went to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used
>>> for a person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers
>>> can shed more light on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's
>>> in charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a
>>> girls' principal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi group!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It
>>> states that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or
>>> just girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
>>> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
>>> assuming mestra means teacher.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
>>> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jessica
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/55ccd547-0021-4dd6-9edd-98f5d2356a58%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Cheri Mello 
So, from an American point-of-view, she was the teacher (or person who
mastered her craft) of home economics. Interesting terminology from back
then,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ângela Loura  wrote:

> Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good
> housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...
>
> Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta,
> 15/11/2019 à(s) 17:21:
>
>> “Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means
>> “School girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed
>> classes did not exist back then.
>>
>>
>>
>> Margaret v.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Cheri Mello 
>> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
>> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de
>> meninhos(as)"?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jessica,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is
>> teacher (feminine).
>>
>>
>>
>> You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out
>> if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
>>
>>
>>
>> So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone
>> who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went
>> to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a
>> person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can
>> shed more light on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in
>> charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls'
>> principal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
>>
>> Hi group!
>>
>>
>>
>> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states
>> that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just
>> girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
>> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
>> assuming mestra means teacher.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
>> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jessica
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/55ccd547-0021-4dd6-9edd-98f5d2356a58%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>> --
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_EPP5G_%3DO23ATnobM1S6BWVbsJ_rvAFX2gYVhLL7nYCzQ%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Ângela Loura 
Mestra was the lady who teached the girls the crafts in order to be good
housewives. Cooking, sewing, taking care of babies...

Margaret Vicente  escreveu no dia sexta,
15/11/2019 à(s) 17:21:

> “Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means
> “School girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed
> classes did not exist back then.
>
>
>
> Margaret v.
>
>
>
> *From: *Cheri Mello 
> *Sent: *November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de
> meninhos(as)"?
>
>
>
> Hi Jessica,
>
>
>
> Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is
> teacher (feminine).
>
>
>
> You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out
> if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.
>
>
>
> So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone
> who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went
> to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a
> person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can
> shed more light on this.
>
>
>
> My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in
> charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls'
> principal.
>
>
>
> Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
>
> Hi group!
>
>
>
> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states
> that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just
> girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
> assuming mestra means teacher.
>
>
>
> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Jessica
>
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/55ccd547-0021-4dd6-9edd-98f5d2356a58%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

2019-11-15 Thread Philippe Garnier 
Hi Tony,

As you can see in my message, it's not difficult to read because all data 
are in abbreviation :

c.(date, parish) c. = casado com, or married with. and so on. All the 
abbreviations are translated at the beginning of all books.

If you want buy books, contact me with my email address : 
philippegarnier...@gmail.com.

Best regards

Philippe Garnier
Paris - France






Le jeudi 14 novembre 2019 23:04:40 UTC+1, Cheri Mello a écrit :
>
> Antoinette,
>
> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death 
> Index are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was 
> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima  > wrote:
>
>> Thank you Bill,
>>
>> yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death 
>> certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security 
>> death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her 
>> gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe 
>> M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows 
>> that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till 
>> 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows 
>> 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said 
>> their records shows it as 1952.  
>>
>> I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a 
>> good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand 
>> information.
>>
>>  
>> Again thank for all your help
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler > > wrote:
>>
>>> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and 
>>> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is 
>>> not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems 
>>> very odd to me.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:

 Hi Toni, glad I could help.

 Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country 
 records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual 
 birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very 
 good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records 
 (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source 
 records (such as a birth date at the time of death).

 Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing 
 these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It 
 happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name 
 listed 
 as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that 
 women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that 
 was 
 Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second 
 marriage.

 The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death 
 Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death 
 index; 
 one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia 
 MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date 
 and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same 
 parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death 
 certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.  
 The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home and 
 burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of 
 death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated 
 in 
 1952.

 I hope this is helpful.

 Bill Seidler



 On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca 
 wrote:
>
> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the 
> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name 
> and 
> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are 
> tons 
> of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there. 
>
> Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:
>
> *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's 
> denominations):
>
>- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to 
>Our Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria 
>da Assunção (Assumption of Mary 
>), Maria da 
>Natividade (Nativity of Mary 
>

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Margaret Vicente 
“Mestra de Meninas” or currently spoken “Professora de meninas” means “School 
girls Teacher” in the 1800’s schools were segregated by sex.  Mixed classes did 
not exist back then.

Margaret v.

From: Cheri Mello
Sent: November 15, 2019 12:09 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos(as)"?

Hi Jessica,

Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is teacher 
(feminine).

You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out if 
it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.

So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone who 
has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went to 
school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a person who 
is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can shed more light on 
this.

My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in 
charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls' 
principal. 

Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri


Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:
Hi group!

For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states that 
the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just girls" I can't 
tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _. 

Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much 
schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm assuming 
mestra means teacher.

This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than "domestica" 
or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued. 

Thank you,

Jessica

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos (as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread Cheri Mello 
Hi Jessica,

Mestre (masculine) or mestra (feminine) means master. Professora is teacher
(feminine).

You'd need to look for another "os" or "as" in the document to figure out
if it's meninos or meninas. I kinda think it's meninas.

So what is a master of the girls? My understanding of a master is someone
who has mastered something. It could be a trade as well as someone who went
to school and mastered a subject. I believe the word is also used for a
person who is in a leadership position as well. The native speakers can
shed more light on this.

My complete wild guess (I've never seen this occupation) is that she's in
charge of the girls' orphanage. She could also be something like a girls'
principal.

Native speakers, please let us know what you think!  Cheri


Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM JML  wrote:

> Hi group!
>
> For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states
> that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just
> girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _.
>
> Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much
> schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm
> assuming mestra means teacher.
>
> This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than
> "domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jessica
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html
>
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> 
> .
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Question on Profession "Mestra de meninhos (as)"?

2019-11-15 Thread JML 
Hi group!

For this marriage of Joaquim Machado de Lemos and Maria da Luz. It states 
that the bride's profession was that of a "mestra of children or just 
girls" I can't tell if it's an "as" or "os" for menin_ _. 

Does anyone have any knowledge about professions in the 1800's? How much 
schooling would have been acquired at that time to be a mestra? I'm 
assuming mestra means teacher.

This is the first profession I have found for a bride, other than 
"domestica" or "costureira" so I am quite intrigued. 

Thank you,

Jessica

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879/TER-AH-TERRACHA-C-1870-1879_item1/P77.html

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