Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

[Anthony Silver]

the spelling is Manilla, two L's.



From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Cheri 
Mello 
Sent: Monday, 20 January 2020 4:51 PM
To: Azores Genealogy 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Hi Anthony,

I can't remember the percentage of Azoreans who are now Roman Catholic. It's 
high. Back in the day, it was probably something like 98% were Catholic. Maybe 
someone has those statistics.

At the time period you are speaking about, there are no birth records. Birth 
records didn't start until 1911. Before that, we use the Catholic Church 
baptisms as our source for birth records. So a baby would be born at home and 
within a few days to a week (*typically* - there are always exceptions), the 
baby would be taken to the local church to be baptized. Since your ancestors 
had already left the Azores, they would have to baptize their baby when they 
arrived in Australia. You need to check the Australian Catholic Church records 
near the port where your ancestors arrived.

The Azores islands do have some regional differences, just like many countries 
have regional differences.

Farming, fishing were very common and many still do farm or fish now.

Manila? North South West? Is that the Philippines? I thought you were talking 
Australia.

For arrival documents, you'd have to check your country (Philippines or 
Australia or whatever you are talking about) and ask about their arrival 
records or immigration records. A local genealogy society or your local Family 
History Center should be able to help you. If you don't know what a Family 
History Center is, look up Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 
(Mormons) and call them and ask where the nearest Family History Center is. No, 
you don't have to be Mormon/LDS to use it. It is open to the public like any 
other library, however many have limited hours since they are run by volunteers.

Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:41 PM Anthony Silver 
mailto:anthony.silve...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
well, apparently he was a roman catholic.
and birth records are kept in Lisbon?
hmmm, ok.
just wondering about the Azores, does each island have its own 
"characteristics" or "traits"?
also, I do know that he owned a farm near manilla, here in nsw.
were there may farming families back then?


From: azores@googlegroups.com<mailto:azores@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Cheri 
Mello mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 18 January 2020 11:10 AM
To: Azores Genealogy mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Why would a woman that pregnant get on the boat if he was born off the coast of 
Faial? If she went into labor and they were off the coast, why didn't they turn 
back and drop the expectant parents off on Faial? The could have caught the 
next boat. Giving birth and getting seasick at the same time?!?! No thank you, 
I'd catch the next boat if I was that pregnant!

If the story is true, I have no idea where Azorean births at sea would be 
recorded in 1838-1841. There was no official vital service record keeping. The 
records of that time period are mainly the Catholic Church. If he was born on a 
boat, they'd have to take the baby to a church to be baptized, which would be a 
Catholic Church in Australia.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 7:58 AM Pamela Hand 
mailto:poppymayf...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Anthony
Some of the Silver family researchers here in Australia believe that your 
Joseph Da Silva was born at sea around 1838 to 1841 off the coast of Faial, one 
of the western islands of the Azores. It is also suggested that records for 
births at sea are kept in Lisbon.
Maybe Cheri or one of the group may know where these birth/baptism records for 
births at sea would be recorded and how to access them. I am guessing there 
would not be a lot of births at sea between 1838 and 1841, and therefore could 
be a starting point for you to find your ancestors.
Hopefully someone can help.
Pam

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 09:56, Anthony Silver 
mailto:anthony.silve...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thankyou Cheri.
hmm, that's something to really think about.


From: azores@googlegroups.com<mailto:azores@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Cheri 
Mello mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, 17 January 2020 3:04 PM
To: Azores Genealogy mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Anthony S,

You have to find out which island. It's just the way it is organized there. 
That's how they do their records. I

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

[Anthony Silver]

well, apparently he was a roman catholic.
and birth records are kept in Lisbon?
hmmm, ok.
just wondering about the Azores, does each island have its own 
"characteristics" or "traits"?
also, I do know that he owned a farm near manilla, here in nsw.
were there may farming families back then?


From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Cheri 
Mello 
Sent: Saturday, 18 January 2020 11:10 AM
To: Azores Genealogy 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Why would a woman that pregnant get on the boat if he was born off the coast of 
Faial? If she went into labor and they were off the coast, why didn't they turn 
back and drop the expectant parents off on Faial? The could have caught the 
next boat. Giving birth and getting seasick at the same time?!?! No thank you, 
I'd catch the next boat if I was that pregnant!

If the story is true, I have no idea where Azorean births at sea would be 
recorded in 1838-1841. There was no official vital service record keeping. The 
records of that time period are mainly the Catholic Church. If he was born on a 
boat, they'd have to take the baby to a church to be baptized, which would be a 
Catholic Church in Australia.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 7:58 AM Pamela Hand 
mailto:poppymayf...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Anthony
Some of the Silver family researchers here in Australia believe that your 
Joseph Da Silva was born at sea around 1838 to 1841 off the coast of Faial, one 
of the western islands of the Azores. It is also suggested that records for 
births at sea are kept in Lisbon.
Maybe Cheri or one of the group may know where these birth/baptism records for 
births at sea would be recorded and how to access them. I am guessing there 
would not be a lot of births at sea between 1838 and 1841, and therefore could 
be a starting point for you to find your ancestors.
Hopefully someone can help.
Pam

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 09:56, Anthony Silver 
mailto:anthony.silve...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thankyou Cheri.
hmm, that's something to really think about.


From: azores@googlegroups.com<mailto:azores@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Cheri 
Mello mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, 17 January 2020 3:04 PM
To: Azores Genealogy mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Anthony S,

You have to find out which island. It's just the way it is organized there. 
That's how they do their records. I don't know how it works in Australia, but 
I'm sure if I wrote to the main Australian government and said I want the birth 
certificate of my long lost cousin who went to Australia, they couldn't help 
me. I'm sure I'd need a location for them to pull a record for me. You need a 
location in the Azores.

All occupations existed in the 1860s. Laborers, farmers, fisherman, servants, 
merchants, teachers, etc. No tech jobs, no electricians, no plumbers, as those 
things just didn't exist.

I believe schooling was very limited and was only for the well to do. Schooling 
for the common people didn't start happening until sometime in the 1900s.

You need to find every possible record that your immigrant ancestor may have 
left in Australia. You need at least an island. If you have exhausted that, 
then you will need to turn to DNA and you will need to test the oldest family 
members you can find and you will have to test multiple family members in order 
to get enough of your immigrant's DNA to figure out the puzzle.

Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada




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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

[Anthony Silver]

what arrival documents?
who has those?
this is amusing because no one in my family seems to know about this.



From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Pamela 
Hand 
Sent: Saturday, 18 January 2020 12:48 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Yes seems crazy but people did things for whatever reason and his tombstone 
states that he was born at sea, western Azores. He came to Australia as an 
adult and arrival documents state birthplace is Faial. Baptisms happened as 
soon as possible so could be either nearest church to the port in Horta or 
Lisbon depending on where the boat was headed? Any suggestions which 
parish/freguesia closest to the ports in either place would be a starting point.
Thanks

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 05:10, Cheri Mello 
mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Why would a woman that pregnant get on the boat if he was born off the coast of 
Faial? If she went into labor and they were off the coast, why didn't they turn 
back and drop the expectant parents off on Faial? The could have caught the 
next boat. Giving birth and getting seasick at the same time?!?! No thank you, 
I'd catch the next boat if I was that pregnant!

If the story is true, I have no idea where Azorean births at sea would be 
recorded in 1838-1841. There was no official vital service record keeping. The 
records of that time period are mainly the Catholic Church. If he was born on a 
boat, they'd have to take the baby to a church to be baptized, which would be a 
Catholic Church in Australia.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 7:58 AM Pamela Hand 
mailto:poppymayf...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Anthony
Some of the Silver family researchers here in Australia believe that your 
Joseph Da Silva was born at sea around 1838 to 1841 off the coast of Faial, one 
of the western islands of the Azores. It is also suggested that records for 
births at sea are kept in Lisbon.
Maybe Cheri or one of the group may know where these birth/baptism records for 
births at sea would be recorded and how to access them. I am guessing there 
would not be a lot of births at sea between 1838 and 1841, and therefore could 
be a starting point for you to find your ancestors.
Hopefully someone can help.
Pam

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 09:56, Anthony Silver 
mailto:anthony.silve...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thankyou Cheri.
hmm, that's something to really think about.


From: azores@googlegroups.com<mailto:azores@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Cheri 
Mello mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, 17 January 2020 3:04 PM
To: Azores Genealogy mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Anthony S,

You have to find out which island. It's just the way it is organized there. 
That's how they do their records. I don't know how it works in Australia, but 
I'm sure if I wrote to the main Australian government and said I want the birth 
certificate of my long lost cousin who went to Australia, they couldn't help 
me. I'm sure I'd need a location for them to pull a record for me. You need a 
location in the Azores.

All occupations existed in the 1860s. Laborers, farmers, fisherman, servants, 
merchants, teachers, etc. No tech jobs, no electricians, no plumbers, as those 
things just didn't exist.

I believe schooling was very limited and was only for the well to do. Schooling 
for the common people didn't start happening until sometime in the 1900s.

You need to find every possible record that your immigrant ancestor may have 
left in Australia. You need at least an island. If you have exhausted that, 
then you will need to turn to DNA and you will need to test the oldest family 
members you can find and you will have to test multiple family members in order 
to get enough of your immigrant's DNA to figure out the puzzle.

Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada




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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

[Anthony Silver]

what are the names in that second column ?

From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Bill 
Seidler 
Sent: Friday, 17 January 2020 3:45 PM
To: Azores Genealogy 
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

This is asking a lot, but I am hoping someone will take up interest and offer 
me an opinion or guidance.  I suspect my wife's 2d Great Grandfather left the 
Azores in the 1860s and ended up in New Zealand.

He is mentioned on his last child's baptism (João)  in 1854.  Then he is the 
father of the groom on the same child's marriage in 1882.  It does not say he 
was absent, but I don't think it would since the groom was of age.  If my 
theory is correct he would have already been gone.  He is also mentioned as the 
paternal grandfather on the baptisms of the four children of his son João.  His 
first son, Manuel, left around 1869 and ended up in Sacramento, CA under the 
name Manuel J. Lamb.  His second son died as an infant.

He is next mentioned in his wife's (Maria Isabel) Obit which states that she is 
still married to Francisco José Cordeiro.  It confirms that she is leaving two 
sons which concurs with the baptisms and obit I have found for their children.

Then on the list of inventories available on Sãojorgegenealogy.org (image 
attached), her son João (Manuel was already in Sacramento) is listed as the one 
doing the inventory.  Would this have been her husband if he were present?  If 
the theory I am attempting to test in true, her husband was already married to 
someone else in New Zealand by this time.  In New Zealand, Francis Joseph (who 
I suspect is Francisco José Cordeiro) reported that he was married before but 
was widowed.

My wife is a close DNA match to descendants of the Francis Joseph in New 
Zealand.  There is one descendant of Antonio José Cordeiro (Francisco's father 
on Gracioisa) that matches both my wife and the descendants of Francis Joseph 
in New Zealand.

I have attached links to the CCA records that tracked Francisco José Cordeiro 
to the extent I was able and a .jpg image in the inventory list for any that 
would be willing to help me sort this out.



His baptism in 1828 São Mateus da Praia, Graciosa: (Francisco, starting just 
below top right).

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1826-1833/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1826-1833_item1/P30.html


His marriage in 1849 in São Sebastião, Ponta Delgada, S. Miguel (starts bottom 
left)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1841-1854/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1841-1854_item1/P121.html


First child baptism in 1849 São Mateus da Praia, Graciosa (starts bottom right)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1841-1855/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1841-1855_item1/P179.html


Second child baptism in 1852 Urzelina, São Jorge (Third on left)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1841-1855/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1841-1855_item1/P82.html


Second child’s obit in Urzelina a month later: (second on right)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1841-1858/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1841-1858_item1/P41.html


Third child’s baptism in 1854 in Urzelina (bottom left)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1855-1860/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1855-1860_item1/P14.html


Third child’s marriage in 1882 in Urzelina (left side)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1880-1889/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1880-1889_item1/P24.html


Wife’s obit in 1901 in Urzelina (bottom right)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1900-1911/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1900-1911_item1/P14.html


Thanks to anyone who just took the time to read this.

Bill Seidler

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

[Anthony Silver]

Thankyou Cheri.
hmm, that's something to really think about.


From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Cheri 
Mello 
Sent: Friday, 17 January 2020 3:04 PM
To: Azores Genealogy 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

Anthony S,

You have to find out which island. It's just the way it is organized there. 
That's how they do their records. I don't know how it works in Australia, but 
I'm sure if I wrote to the main Australian government and said I want the birth 
certificate of my long lost cousin who went to Australia, they couldn't help 
me. I'm sure I'd need a location for them to pull a record for me. You need a 
location in the Azores.

All occupations existed in the 1860s. Laborers, farmers, fisherman, servants, 
merchants, teachers, etc. No tech jobs, no electricians, no plumbers, as those 
things just didn't exist.

I believe schooling was very limited and was only for the well to do. Schooling 
for the common people didn't start happening until sometime in the 1900s.

You need to find every possible record that your immigrant ancestor may have 
left in Australia. You need at least an island. If you have exhausted that, 
then you will need to turn to DNA and you will need to test the oldest family 
members you can find and you will have to test multiple family members in order 
to get enough of your immigrant's DNA to figure out the puzzle.

Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada




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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ossuary

[Anthony Silver]

that's what the ossuary look like.
hmmm, I think I have seen something like that here in Australia.
so, regarding the archive, where would I go for those?


On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 7:41 AM 'Susan Murphy' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I’m sorry too! He’s 83 now, so a sorrow that just doesn’t go away :(
> Susan
>
> On Jan 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
> 
> I would think *most* people would be just bones? There are always
> exceptions. So sorry your cousin saw that.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 11:10 AM Maria Lima 
> wrote:
>
>> Susan, thanks for sharing this- very moving.  I can’t imagine...
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2020, at 1:01 PM, 'Susan Murphy' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Thank you Monica for the image.
>>
>> I saw the one at Santa Catarina church in Castelo Branco and it was more
>> like what Cheri said. like a long big dog house maybe.
>>
>> Along this subject I had a memory of one of my mother’s first cousins
>> telling us when he came to this country (after the volcanic eruption on
>> Faial) that he witnessed his grandmothers bones being exhumed. He told me
>> this in the 1960s and I recently visited him and asked him about it (I
>> thought it was my great grandmother but turns out it was on his mother’s
>> side). I felt so bad because he started to cry because he saw her red hair
>> and she was recognizable to him. His wife seemed to indicate that a family
>> member had to be present. I was so sorry I had brought the subject up and i
>> would think it would be such a painful experience for anyone to have to
>> witness this. Have any of you heard that there (used to be at least) this
>> custom?
>>
>> Susan Vargas Murphy
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2020, at 8:29 AM, 'Monica C' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've recently had to deal with my father's bones being placed in an
>> ossuary.
>>
>> My father passed away in 1987 and the cemetery had placed him on the list
>> to exhume back in 2017. Instead of his bones to be placed in a mass grave
>> of bones, I had the option to have him placed in a n ossuary in the same
>> cemetery. There was a fee.
>>
>> I have provided a link to the image from facebook when it was being
>> blessed by the parish priest. Just copy and paste it in your browser.
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/matrizdascapelas.paroquia/photos/a.890467641120771/1110441779123355/?type=3
>>
>> Thanks
>> Monica
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:46:26 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>>
>>> Repost for Anthony Silver, thecoloursilver.82 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Anthony said:
>>> << is the Ossuary a building ?>>
>>>
>>> It depends. Try Google (or your favorite search engine).
>>> Here's Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossuary
>>> Here's a general Google search (you might want to click on the Images
>>> tab):
>>> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d=ossuary
>>>
>>> The only one I saw in the Azores was the size of a dog house. So in that
>>> case, I saw a little concrete building. Maybe someone else has seen one in
>>> another freguesia. When I've gone to the Azores, I'm in the archives. I
>>> don't go to the cemeteries, as I know my ancestors are no longer in marked
>>> graves.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

Thanks Cheri.

whats an ossuary?

From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Cheri 
Mello 
Sent: Tuesday, 14 January 2020 3:48 PM
To: Azores Genealogy 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

Hi Anthony,

I'm not sure, but I think all the ports physically exist. They are just 
configured differently. The on in Ponta Delgada can take cruise ships now.

You won't find the graves for your 2 greats, unless someone in the family has 
been paying the rent on them for all this time. Typically, the remains are left 
7 years and then the bones are dug up and placed in an ossuary. Every freguesia 
now has a cemetery and that is where you will find tombstones. But your 
relatives may not be there.

Silva is either the number 1 or number 2 most common name in the Azores. No, 
they are not all related, just like all Jones and Smiths are not all related.

Hope this helps,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

questions for anyone who may happen to know the answer/s: 

are there any ports in azores, that still exist, from the 1800's ? 

where in Azores would I find any graves for the parents of my great 
grandfather ? 

and, is the surname of da silva common in azores; are they all related to 
each other?  




On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 3:28:31 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>
> wow Pam, that's, incredible.
> I know of one tree on ancestry but the person hasn't contacted me yet. 
> unfortunately I don't know what happened to Peter, being the oldest of 
> Catherine's sons. 
> apparently he died at sea in 1909. 
> Paul James is my line, and Francis is the other line. 
> wow. 
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:55 AM Pamela Hand  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for clarifying Cheri.
>> I had the same thoughts but good to have your thoughts on it too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 10:43, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Faial (old spelling Fayal) is an island. Faial da Terra is a freguesia 
>>> on Sao Miguel island. 
>>>
>>> When an ancestor (especially in that time period) says they are from 
>>> Faial/Fayal, they mean the island. Either the Ancestry system cannot handle 
>>> the island alone or the place field suggested Faial da Terra on Sao Miguel. 
>>> The tree owner is probably completely ignorant of the geography of the 
>>> Azores and just went with it, without any investigating or thought.
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira 
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 1:51 PM Pamela Hand  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Anthony
>>>>
>>>> There are a few trees on ancestry.com for Joseph Silver who died 18 
>>>> Aug 1908 at “Ebbeville” Upper Manila NSW. He married Catherina (Katie) 
>>>> Nowland in 1876 and had 11 or 12 children. Two sons survived to adulthood: 
>>>> Francis Laurence and Paul James Silver.
>>>>
>>>> This Joseph Silver arrived in Sydney on 9 Dec 1864, aged 26 (placing 
>>>> his birth around 1838) from Wellington NZ. He was one of a crew of 8+ the 
>>>> captain. The official records show his birth nation as ”Fayal”, which I 
>>>> would assume is Faial, one of the western islands of the Azores. However 
>>>> the trees on Ancestry have his birth listed as 1841 in Faial da Terra on 
>>>> the island of Sao Miguel. I am inclined to go with the western Island of 
>>>> Faial as more likely, because Faial was listed as the nation not the 
>>>> village. Perhaps someone more familiar with Sao Miguel and Faial da Terra 
>>>> could help here. 
>>>>
>>>> To find where on the island of Faial is a bit trickier. You would need 
>>>> to research the records for each Freguesia (village) for around the time 
>>>> of 
>>>> his birth 1838-1841 or maybe enlist the help of one of this groups 
>>>> genealogists.  
>>>>
>>>> The Manila historical Society could help with obituary etc on 
>>>> www.manillamuseum.org.au or 02 67851207 9-4pm Thursday for historian. 
>>>> You might get lucky with parents names and birth village.
>>>>
>>>> Happy to help further so you can contact me on my email directly, if 
>>>> you wish.  My ancestor from the western island of Flores was a very 
>>>> similar 
>>>> timeframe to your Joseph Silver.
>>>> Pam
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 16:57, Anthony Silver <
>>>> thecoloursilver...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> what I know, is that he is from somewhere in the azores.
>>>>> he came to Australia by ship, but which one, back in the 1850's 
>>>>> sometime.
>>>>> he died here in aus, in nsw, being the town of manilla.
>>>>> there is a genealogy society in Sydney, which I am yet to try.
>>>>> even his naturalization, and marriage cert had limited info on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 3:25 AM Pamela Hand  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can search for an obituary for your Joseph Silver, it may give 
>>>>>> a clue. That was a very useful source of information for my Azorean 2x 
>>>>>> great grandfather. It gave us his village and island in the Azores. It 
>>>>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ancestry.com data

[Anthony Silver]

does the family tree maker have a website ???

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 5:17 AM Gordon soares  wrote:

> I no longer use Ancestry.com as my primary genealogy program; instead I
> use Family Tree Maker.
> I didn’t know that all the source documents on Ancestry is considered
> theirs and so I no longer can put that data into FTM. Cheri says she just
> copies the data from Ancestry but I’m finding each time I try I get a
> solicitation to rejoin Ancestry and pay. Even if successful at copying it
> will take a lot of work to look at 17,000 entries on Ancestry and copy them
> to FTM.
> Does anyone have a way to get Ancestry data onto their computer and into
> another genealogy program? I’m surprised it doesn’t happen when I do a
> gedcom from Ancestry to FTM.
> Gordon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

wow Pam, that's, incredible.
I know of one tree on ancestry but the person hasn't contacted me yet.
unfortunately I don't know what happened to Peter, being the oldest of
Catherine's sons.
apparently he died at sea in 1909.
Paul James is my line, and Francis is the other line.
wow.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:55 AM Pamela Hand  wrote:

> Thanks for clarifying Cheri.
> I had the same thoughts but good to have your thoughts on it too.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 10:43, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Faial (old spelling Fayal) is an island. Faial da Terra is a freguesia on
>> Sao Miguel island.
>>
>> When an ancestor (especially in that time period) says they are from
>> Faial/Fayal, they mean the island. Either the Ancestry system cannot handle
>> the island alone or the place field suggested Faial da Terra on Sao Miguel.
>> The tree owner is probably completely ignorant of the geography of the
>> Azores and just went with it, without any investigating or thought.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 1:51 PM Pamela Hand 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Anthony
>>>
>>> There are a few trees on ancestry.com for Joseph Silver who died 18 Aug
>>> 1908 at “Ebbeville” Upper Manila NSW. He married Catherina (Katie) Nowland
>>> in 1876 and had 11 or 12 children. Two sons survived to adulthood: Francis
>>> Laurence and Paul James Silver.
>>>
>>> This Joseph Silver arrived in Sydney on 9 Dec 1864, aged 26 (placing his
>>> birth around 1838) from Wellington NZ. He was one of a crew of 8+ the
>>> captain. The official records show his birth nation as ”Fayal”, which I
>>> would assume is Faial, one of the western islands of the Azores. However
>>> the trees on Ancestry have his birth listed as 1841 in Faial da Terra on
>>> the island of Sao Miguel. I am inclined to go with the western Island of
>>> Faial as more likely, because Faial was listed as the nation not the
>>> village. Perhaps someone more familiar with Sao Miguel and Faial da Terra
>>> could help here.
>>>
>>> To find where on the island of Faial is a bit trickier. You would need
>>> to research the records for each Freguesia (village) for around the time of
>>> his birth 1838-1841 or maybe enlist the help of one of this groups
>>> genealogists.
>>>
>>> The Manila historical Society could help with obituary etc on
>>> www.manillamuseum.org.au or 02 67851207 9-4pm Thursday for historian.
>>> You might get lucky with parents names and birth village.
>>>
>>> Happy to help further so you can contact me on my email directly, if you
>>> wish.  My ancestor from the western island of Flores was a very similar
>>> timeframe to your Joseph Silver.
>>> Pam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 16:57, Anthony Silver <
>>> thecoloursilver...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> what I know, is that he is from somewhere in the azores.
>>>> he came to Australia by ship, but which one, back in the 1850's
>>>> sometime.
>>>> he died here in aus, in nsw, being the town of manilla.
>>>> there is a genealogy society in Sydney, which I am yet to try.
>>>> even his naturalization, and marriage cert had limited info on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 3:25 AM Pamela Hand 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you can search for an obituary for your Joseph Silver, it may give
>>>>> a clue. That was a very useful source of information for my Azorean 2x
>>>>> great grandfather. It gave us his village and island in the Azores. It 
>>>>> also
>>>>> told the story of how he came to Australia. You would need to know where 
>>>>> he
>>>>> died and search the newspapers or contact the local historical group. They
>>>>> are always very helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding is that some of the Azoreans who came to Australia
>>>>> and New Zealand were recruited onto American whaling ships. They were 
>>>>> often
>>>>> shipwrecked as in my ancestors case or jumped ship, as I believe it was a
>>>>> hard life on these ships.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to know the village or freguesia and island in the Azores.
>>>>> Then you can search the archives. Also c

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

what I know, is that he is from somewhere in the azores.
he came to Australia by ship, but which one, back in the 1850's sometime.
he died here in aus, in nsw, being the town of manilla.
there is a genealogy society in Sydney, which I am yet to try.
even his naturalization, and marriage cert had limited info on it.


On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 3:25 AM Pamela Hand  wrote:

> If you can search for an obituary for your Joseph Silver, it may give a
> clue. That was a very useful source of information for my Azorean 2x great
> grandfather. It gave us his village and island in the Azores. It also told
> the story of how he came to Australia. You would need to know where he died
> and search the newspapers or contact the local historical group. They are
> always very helpful.
>
> My understanding is that some of the Azoreans who came to Australia and
> New Zealand were recruited onto American whaling ships. They were often
> shipwrecked as in my ancestors case or jumped ship, as I believe it was a
> hard life on these ships.
>
> You need to know the village or freguesia and island in the Azores. Then
> you can search the archives. Also consider doing DNA testing as Cheri has
> already suggested.
> Good luck
>
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 18:07, Anthony Silver 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Pam ..
>>
>> yeah you're right, though i don't know for sure whether that is him for
>> not.
>> im one of his descendents, trying to trace his life, when he lived in
>> azores, somewhere
>> how he got to Aus, from azores, is something I want to know, not just his
>> life in azores.
>> thankyou
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 12:41 PM Pamela Hand 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Anthony
>>> There is a Joseph Silver born Portugal abt.1837 who arrived in Sydney
>>> NSW on the “India” on 1 April 1859. He was aged 22y. The ship embarked from
>>> St Johns New Brunswick Canada.
>>> Do you have any idea where he settled in Australia or where his
>>> descendants lived?
>>> Hope this helps
>>> Pam
>>>
>>> On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 17:19, Anthony Silver <
>>> thecoloursilver...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> South Australia ???
>>>>
>>>> ha ha ha .. not that I know of ..
>>>>
>>>> but hey, anything is possible in this regard ..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal.
>>>>>
>>>>> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>>>>>
>>>>> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info
>>>>> online ???
>>>>>
>>>>> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>> .
>>>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

Hey Pam ..

yeah you're right, though i don't know for sure whether that is him for not.
im one of his descendents, trying to trace his life, when he lived in
azores, somewhere
how he got to Aus, from azores, is something I want to know, not just his
life in azores.
thankyou

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 12:41 PM Pamela Hand  wrote:

> Hi Anthony
> There is a Joseph Silver born Portugal abt.1837 who arrived in Sydney NSW
> on the “India” on 1 April 1859. He was aged 22y. The ship embarked from St
> Johns New Brunswick Canada.
> Do you have any idea where he settled in Australia or where his
> descendants lived?
> Hope this helps
> Pam
>
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 17:19, Anthony Silver 
> wrote:
>
>> South Australia ???
>>
>> ha ha ha .. not that I know of ..
>>
>> but hey, anything is possible in this regard ..
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>>>
>>> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal.
>>>
>>> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>>>
>>> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info
>>> online ???
>>>
>>> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/734b12c4-5878-4abc-9e1b-099f423b827a%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/734b12c4-5878-4abc-9e1b-099f423b827a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
> --
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>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

South Australia ??? 

ha ha ha .. not that I know of .. 

but hey, anything is possible in this regard .. 


On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>
> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 
>
> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
> online ??? 
>
> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 
>
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

is there some sort of genealogy organization in Portugal that I can contact 
? 

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 11:13:23 AM UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Basically, you take the Family Finder test and I look at your Matches. I 
> can tell you if they are researching Sao Miguel island, Flores island, etc. 
> And if you are real lucky, you may find a 2nd cousin who has a tree with 
> your freguesia (village).
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 4:11 PM Anthony Silver  > wrote:
>
>> and what are the clusters ??? 
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>>>
>>> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 
>>>
>>> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>>>
>>> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
>>> online ??? 
>>>
>>> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/6d40a67d-41ca-4ecc-a74a-4ff27bb6bf1c%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/6d40a67d-41ca-4ecc-a74a-4ff27bb6bf1c%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

and what are the clusters ??? 

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>
> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 
>
> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
> online ??? 
>
> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 
>
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

so whats the DNA project ?

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>
> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 
>
> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
> online ??? 
>
> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 
>
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

I do have one picture of him, which is a portrait.

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>
> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 
>
> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
> online ??? 
>
> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 
>
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

well, the name of my grandfather, 5 or 6 generations ago, is Joseph Silver, 
born somewhere in the azores, around 1836.
he that's about all I know. 
he took a ship, and came to Australia, from 1850 something. 
the info I have is quite limited. 

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:
>
> hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 
>
> the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
> online ??? 
>
> one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 
>
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 

the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.

does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info 
online ??? 

one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 


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