[AZORES-Genealogy] California Orphanage Records

2014-04-11 Thread Grace CM
Does anyone know of orphanage records in California from about 1870-1890? 
Since the parents were from the Azores, I imagine they were Catholic, so it 
might include church-supported orphanages, if there were such things then.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] California Orphanage Records

2014-04-12 Thread Grace CM
Thank you, Marilyn--again--you already helped me once. I'm brand new to 
this group and amazed at how generous you all are.

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:12:59 AM UTC-7, Marilyn Thompson wrote:
>
> Do you know the area of California? You might need to contact the Diocese 
> for the area and talk to someone in the Archives Department. 
>
> I do not know specifically they will have them or that they will let you 
> have the information.
>
> I just contacted the Archives at the Fresno Diocese. They are only open on 
> Thursdays. I wanted a copy of my grandfathers blessing record. They were 
> very helpful. They found the record, scanned it and emailed it to me all 
> for free.
>  
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Grace CM 
> > wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of orphanage records in California from about 1870-1890? 
>> Since the parents were from the Azores, I imagine they were Catholic, so it 
>> might include church-supported orphanages, if there were such things then.
>>  
>> -- 
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>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Divorce Records

2014-04-13 Thread Grace CM
It appears that the orphans I've been tracing had two parents living 
together in 1890 but apart in 1900. In the 1900 census has the mother 
listed as W, a widow I believe, but the father listed as D, divorced I 
believe. Did the Catholic Church allow/condone/have a mechanism for divorce 
at that time? (This is in California.) Are there any civil records I might 
have access to? (I can't find any on-line.) I do know the father returned 
to the Azores and remarried while the mother was still living. Also, does 
anyone know how unusual it would have been in an immigrant Azorean 
community in the 1900s to have a divorce? Thanks all!

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Divorce Records

2014-04-16 Thread Grace CM
Thank you, Kathy. What you say makes sense. Would you know if there are any 
divorce records from the 1900s available?

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:31:21 PM UTC-7, Kathy Cardoza wrote:
>
> Divorce certainly did happen back then, even among Catholics. I’m sure it 
> was not sanctioned by the Church, as it isn’t today…. but it did happen. 
> And it wasn’t uncommon for people to have themselves listed as widow or 
> widower in the census rather than divorced. In that non-electronic age, and 
> especially if the parties didn’t live in the same area, it would work for 
> them as there was a huge stigma attached to being divorced at that time. I 
> had this in my family ….  Catholics in California around 1900.
>
> Kathy
> ~~~
> Visit the Azores GenWeb Project:
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~azrwgw/index.html
>
> Climb my Family Tree:
> http://www.kathys-place.com/index.html
> ~~~~~~~
>
>
>  
> On Apr 13, 2014, at 5:33 PM, Grace CM > 
> wrote:
>
> It appears that the orphans I've been tracing had two parents living 
> together in 1890 but apart in 1900. In the 1900 census has the mother 
> listed as W, a widow I believe, but the father listed as D, divorced I 
> believe. Did the Catholic Church allow/condone/have a mechanism for divorce 
> at that time? (This is in California.) Are there any civil records I might 
> have access to? (I can't find any on-line.) I do know the father returned 
> to the Azores and remarried while the mother was still living. Also, does 
> anyone know how unusual it would have been in an immigrant Azorean 
> community in the 1900s to have a divorce? Thanks all!
>
> -- 
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> membership."
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>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Divorce Records

2014-04-16 Thread Grace CM

The city was San Diego, so I will look into those records. I had no idea 
that they had to be publicly reported; that's the best lead. Thanks!
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:38:18 AM UTC-7, IslandRoutes wrote:
>
> I have a little experience with this for San Francisco.  Yes, Catholics 
>> did get divorced prior to 1900.  I have a French relative who was Roman 
>> Catholic.  She came to SF in 1880, married and had a kid, and then the guy 
>> deserted her.  I was able to find record of the divorce based on desertion 
>> in the SF Call newspaper in 1884.
>>
>
> I don't know if the church condoned it, but it happened most assuredly.  I 
> do not believe they were involved in any way.  As for official records, 
> California did not start official reporting until 1905.  So, the records 
> you seek will be at the city or county level.   San Francisco did have 
> divorce records, but I believe the earthquake and fire wiped them out.  
> Newspapers can fill the gap as they had to be publicly reported.
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Divorce Records

2014-04-16 Thread Grace CM

Would you happen to know if any San Diego newspapers from that time--early 
1900s--are on-line?
On Monday, April 14, 2014 2:24:20 PM UTC-7, E Sharp wrote:
>
> The San Francisco Call newspaper is online at 
>
> http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=cl&cl=CL1&sp=SFC
>
> *Title:* San Francisco Call
>
> *Available online:* 1 April 1890 - 31 December 1913 (8649 issues)
>
> "E"
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 10:38 AM, IslandRoutes 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> I have a little experience with this for San Francisco.  Yes, Catholics 
>>> did get divorced prior to 1900.  I have a French relative who was Roman 
>>> Catholic.  She came to SF in 1880, married and had a kid, and then the guy 
>>> deserted her.  I was able to find record of the divorce based on desertion 
>>> in the SF Call newspaper in 1884.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know if the church condoned it, but it happened most assuredly.  
>> I do not believe they were involved in any way.  As for official records, 
>> California did not start official reporting until 1905.  So, the records 
>> you seek will be at the city or county level.   San Francisco did have 
>> divorce records, but I believe the earthquake and fire wiped them out.  
>> Newspapers can fill the gap as they had to be publicly reported.
>>
>>  -- 
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>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Divorce Records

2014-04-17 Thread Grace CM
Thanks, Pam. The city was San Diego. I've checked out the on-line leads to 
newspapers, as suggested by you and others (I had no idea divorces were 
reported in newspapers), and so far haven't found any on-line resources. 
I'll try Cheri's suggestion of libraries next.

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 2:17:48 PM UTC-7, Pam Santos wrote:
>
> What city did this take place. It would help for instance San Francisco 
> there would be no records because if the fires during the earthquakes. But 
> thee would be a notice in newspaper. My great grandmother divorced on 1902 
> and showed in newspaper. Also there is a lust of orphans in a orphanage in 
> SF on the main Sf genealogy page 
>
> On Wednesday, April 16, 2014, Cheri Mello > 
> wrote:
>
>> Check Newspaper Archives (paid site).  Some libraries, or FHCs may have a 
>> subscription.
>> http://newspaperarchive.com/us/
>>
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
>> Tainhas, Achada 
>>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Half-Orphans

2014-04-18 Thread Grace CM
 

Does anyone know what “half-orphan” in a California school record from 
1918 might mean? Unless I’m mistaken, the child has two living parents.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Half-Orphans

2014-04-19 Thread Grace CM
That's it! It makes perfect sense. The parents separated or divorced 
(haven't found a divorce record yet) and lived apart for ten years, all the 
time paying $20 a month to the San Diego Children's Home. I'm more 
confident now that the child (maybe even 3 of the 5) I found as 
half-orphans living with other families during the time were theirs. 
Orphans but with both parents alive. Thanks, Liliana! Great! PS What's the 
name of the book?

On Friday, April 18, 2014 9:04:01 PM UTC-7, Liliana Harris wrote:
>
>
> I’m fairly certain I have the answer to that. On Azores GenWeb, which is a 
> terrific source of information (Forgive me if I’m reporting something most 
> of the group already knows.), there was a book on the Azores —part fiction, 
> part non-fiction—reviewed. The fiction part is supposedly well-researched, 
> and so far everything I’ve read has checked out. Embedded in the fiction of 
> the book, there is reference to half orphans: *children with both parents 
> living who could no longer be fully supported by the parents*. They lived 
> in institutions along with children without parents, and their parents paid 
> small amounts for their room and board. They kept their own names but could 
> be farmed out to private homes--sort of like foster children. I did a bit 
> of research of my own on this, and apparently it was not common at the turn 
> of the century but it was done.
>
> On Friday, April 18, 2014 7:40:52 PM UTC-7, Grace CM wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know what “half-orphan” in a California school record from 
>> 1918 might mean? Unless I’m mistaken, the child has two living parents.
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Half-Orphans

2014-04-19 Thread Grace CM
Thanks, Fred. I had never even heard the term before. I'm almost certain 
both parents were alive when the children were growing up. And the mother 
paid a children's home $20 a month. Even though the parents were both alive 
and lived exactly one block apart, maybe it was still considered as the 
father having abandoned his five children. He did eventually leave America 
and marry again (a 22 year-old when he was 62--and then he died a year 
later--ha!ha!) In fact, it just occurred to me--and I feel bad for thinking 
my ancestors might have been this low--with 5 children, it might have been 
far less expensive to claim being abandoned and allow them to be raised by 
others.

Do you happen to know if there were any efforts to collect child support 
from deadbeat dads in those days, or did the authorities tend to look the 
other way?

One other question--and I know the answer would be pure guesswork on your 
part. The mother had many, many close relatives in the area. Why wouldn't 
the children have been looked after by them? Was being divorced or 
abandoned such a stigma that the children would have been tainted in some 
way?

Thanks again!

On Saturday, April 19, 2014 4:53:44 AM UTC-7, azoresfred wrote:

> Since the question originally dealt with the term being used in 
> California, it might also mean what it has tradtionally meant in the US.  
> The primary use of the term has been to refer to children who have been 
> abandoned by their fathers (and usually supported by the state).  Even 
> though the farming out of family members during the Depression was also 
> common because so many people couldn't afford to raise their own children 
> and many  orphanages took in children like that, more often  "half orphan" 
> was a term used to identify children bereft of their financial support 
> because of abandonment by the father.  This is probably not the case for 
> kids who were in the Azores proper since even real orphans (kids who had 
> lost both parents) were usually taken in by other family members or close 
> friends (hence the real use of the term Godmother and Godfather) and  
> usually put to work for a "sponsor" (benevolent or otherwise) in exchange 
> for room and board. 
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Liliana Harris 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> I’m fairly certain I have the answer to that. On Azores GenWeb, which is 
>> a terrific source of information (Forgive me if I’m reporting something 
>> most of the group already knows.), there was a book on the Azores —part 
>> fiction, part non-fiction—reviewed. The fiction part is supposedly 
>> well-researched, and so far everything I’ve read has checked out. Embedded 
>> in the fiction of the book, there is reference to half orphans: *children 
>> with both parents living who could no longer be fully supported by the 
>> parents*. They lived in institutions along with children without 
>> parents, and their parents paid small amounts for their room and board. 
>> They kept their own names but could be farmed out to private homes--sort of 
>> like foster children. I did a bit of research of my own on this, and 
>> apparently it was not common at the turn of the century but it was done.
>>
>> On Friday, April 18, 2014 7:40:52 PM UTC-7, Grace CM wrote:
>>>
>>>  Does anyone know what “half-orphan” in a California school record from 
>>> 1918 might mean? Unless I’m mistaken, the child has two living parents.
>>>
>>  -- 
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Half-Orphans

2014-04-21 Thread Grace CM
Cheri--I'm not seeing a way to follow up on my own post, so I'll reply to 
yours and hope others take note. I spoke with a representative of the San 
Diego Children's Home, which is still in existence and still has archived 
records going back to the 19th century. Apparently, they took in several 
(She said "many" but had no numbers when I asked.) children of immigrants 
from the Azores. Others might like to know.

On Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:47:15 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> I haven't been paying real close attention to this thread, but I have one 
> instance of an "orphan" in my family. It's in Alabama in the 1850s.  The 
> father died leaving his wife and "orphaned "children.  Not having a father 
> in Alabama (and other states in America) in the middle 1800s meant 
> "orphaned."
>
> As to this part of Grace CM's post:
> < have been tainted in some way?>>
>
> Yes, being a child of divorced parents was a stigma.  My dad's first 
> cousin, born in the late 1930s, was the daughter of divorced parents.  Some 
> kids at school shunned her and would not play with her.  This happened in 
> southern California in the 1940s.  I remember growing up in the 1970s and 
> there was a foster home on the corner.  My mother would not let us play 
> with those kids.  We were told that their parents were "jail birds" and 
> that the kids would turn out like their parents (this might have been some 
> weird mental thing my mom had about the house on the corner).  By the time 
> I was 11 or 12, I realized those kids were just like me and I remember 
> being friends with a couple of them while they lived in that particular 
> foster home.  
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada 
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Half-Orphans

2014-04-21 Thread Grace CM
This is fascinating--and disturbing. It explains a lot, though--not just 
why the mother would say she was widowed when the father lived only a block 
away, but also maybe why the children put such distance between themselves 
and the parents. It also makes me think they truly were divorced--since it 
gives the mother a reason for lying about it. Now I just have to find the 
record! Thanks, Cheri.


On Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:47:15 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:

> I haven't been paying real close attention to this thread, but I have one 
> instance of an "orphan" in my family. It's in Alabama in the 1850s.  The 
> father died leaving his wife and "orphaned "children.  Not having a father 
> in Alabama (and other states in America) in the middle 1800s meant 
> "orphaned."
>
> As to this part of Grace CM's post:
> < have been tainted in some way?>>
>
> Yes, being a child of divorced parents was a stigma.  My dad's first 
> cousin, born in the late 1930s, was the daughter of divorced parents.  Some 
> kids at school shunned her and would not play with her.  This happened in 
> southern California in the 1940s.  I remember growing up in the 1970s and 
> there was a foster home on the corner.  My mother would not let us play 
> with those kids.  We were told that their parents were "jail birds" and 
> that the kids would turn out like their parents (this might have been some 
> weird mental thing my mom had about the house on the corner).  By the time 
> I was 11 or 12, I realized those kids were just like me and I remember 
> being friends with a couple of them while they lived in that particular 
> foster home.  
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada 
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Half-Orphans

2014-04-21 Thread Grace CM
Thanks, Liliana. I've ordered one already. :-)

On Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:51:08 PM UTC-7, Liliana Harris wrote:
>
> The book is *Saudade*, a Portuguese word but the book is in English, by 
> Winthrop. I found it reviewed on 
> *http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/*<http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/>.
>  
> It's set in the Azores and filled with interesting facts a fictional 
> genealogist learns as she researches her own ancestors.
>
> On Saturday, April 19, 2014 2:03:46 PM UTC-7, Grace CM wrote:
>
>> That's it! It makes perfect sense. The parents separated or divorced 
>> (haven't found a divorce record yet) and lived apart for ten years, all the 
>> time paying $20 a month to the San Diego Children's Home. I'm more 
>> confident now that the child (maybe even 3 of the 5) I found as 
>> half-orphans living with other families during the time were theirs. 
>> Orphans but with both parents alive. Thanks, Liliana! Great! PS What's the 
>> name of the book?
>>
>> On Friday, April 18, 2014 9:04:01 PM UTC-7, Liliana Harris wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m fairly certain I have the answer to that. On Azores GenWeb, which is 
>>> a terrific source of information (Forgive me if I’m reporting something 
>>> most of the group already knows.), there was a book on the Azores —part 
>>> fiction, part non-fiction—reviewed. The fiction part is supposedly 
>>> well-researched, and so far everything I’ve read has checked out. Embedded 
>>> in the fiction of the book, there is reference to half orphans: *children 
>>> with both parents living who could no longer be fully supported by the 
>>> parents*. They lived in institutions along with children without 
>>> parents, and their parents paid small amounts for their room and board. 
>>> They kept their own names but could be farmed out to private homes--sort of 
>>> like foster children. I did a bit of research of my own on this, and 
>>> apparently it was not common at the turn of the century but it was done.
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 18, 2014 7:40:52 PM UTC-7, Grace CM wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know what “half-orphan” in a California school record from 
>>>> 1918 might mean? Unless I’m mistaken, the child has two living parents.
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Divorce Records

2014-04-29 Thread Grace CM
Thanks, Cheri. I've noticed that you're the "owner" of this site. So many 
have been so generous with what they know, I keep reaching out to thank 
them. I'm not sure of the protocol, though. I don't want to keep "clogging 
up" the site with my thanks, but I do want to let everyone know how much I 
appreciate it. Any advice?

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:18:04 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Check Newspaper Archives (paid site).  Some libraries, or FHCs may have a 
> subscription.
> http://newspaperarchive.com/us/
>
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada 
>

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