Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Making Sense of Dates

[Kyle Pereira]

Thanks, everyone. I was confused because typically babies are baptized 
rather quickly after being born, so I thought it strange that the baptism 
would take place a year after the birth, especially when I saw other 
entries around it saying the same thing. I thought it must be referring to 
the previous month. The previous year is what would make sense. You're all 
a huge help! :D

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Making Sense of Dates

[Kyle Pereira]

I'm trying to figure something out here, but the dates aren't adding up.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1890-1894/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1890-1894_item1/P61.html

This is the baptism record for my great-grandfather, Jacinto Cabral. From 
what I understand of it, his father was already dead when he was born, and 
Jacinto was born on the 25th of the "last September". This baptism took 
place at the beginning of October 1890, so does the "last September" mean 
the previous month (September 1890), or of the previous year (September 
1889)?

This is important because I also found the baptism record for his father 
(the one who was already dead when Jacinto was born). To make it extra 
confusing, he's also named Jacinto Cabral. My family always told a story of 
him dying at sea off the Grand Banks of Newfoundland, being swept off a 
ship. Now logic would dictate that the elder Jacinto would have died some 
time after the conception of his son, but before the birth. So basically 
anywhere from January to September 1890.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1852-1855/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1852-1855_item1/P13.html

This is the baptism record for the father. From what I can see in the 
margin notes, he died 26 May 1889. If the conception occurred in that same 
month, the latest that his son would have been born is February 1890. So 
does this mean "the last September" referred to in the younger Jacinto's 
baptism record is September 1889? Because that way the dates would make 
sense...

Thanks in advance!

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Trouble Reading Marriage Record

[Kyle Pereira]

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-FENAISDALUZ-C-1853-1860/SMG-PD-FENAISDALUZ-C-1853-1860_item1/P37.html

This is the marriage record (right hand page) for two of my ancestors on my 
dad's side, Manuel Cabral and Maria José. I'm trying to make out their 
parents' names and where they are from so I can start to track them down.

For Manuel's father, I'm reading Francisco da Camara? And for his mother, 
I'm seeing Antonia...de Jesus, maybe? For Maria's father, I'm reading Jose 
? (Perhaps Travassos?). For Maria's mother's, I'm seeing Anna (or Anna 
Maria) Jacinta. And I'm assuming she had already passed away at that point, 
because it says "ja defuncta". It looks like Maria was baptized in São 
Sebastião, Ponta Delgada, but I don't know where Manuel was baptized.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Hard to read marriage record!

[Kyle Pereira]

That's a tough one to read. I'm seeing mostly the same as you. I think the 
bride's mother could be Joana Maria? But I'm not 100% sure.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading margin notes

[Kyle Pereira]

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1900-1905/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1900-1905_item1/P69.html

I found a baptism record for one of my relatives Joao Cabral (entry No. 
165, or bottom right corner and continuing to the next page). However, I'm 
having trouble reading some of the margin notes, specifically the part 
about his marriage.

"Married Emilia de Jesus (can't read) in Santa Clara church, in the parish 
of Sao Jose, of this council, on the 22nd of September(??) 1957 (can't read 
the rest of the sentence)." The last sentence in that note mentions a date 
of 26 May 1971, but I can't figure out what it's in reference to. Any help? 
Thanks!

Also underneath where it refers to when he died, it makes reference to an 
Assento No. 467 - 23 June 1978. What is this in reference to and how can I 
find it? Thanks again.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Pastorinho

[Kyle Pereira]

Pastorinho is definitely a name, not an occupation. Like Mara said, it's 
diminutive of Pastor. Not an extremely common name. When searching, keep 
both Pastorinho and Pastor in mind, as well as Jose because he may have 
gone by that instead.

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 1:21:44 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Correction: 9 lines from the bottom. The maternal grandfather is who 
> Christian is after. 
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Christian Day  > wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> In the following baptismal record, 9 lines from the top, is an ancestor 
>> of mine named Pastorinho José D'Amorim. I've elsewhere seen him referred to 
>> as Pastor. Translated that means Shepherd according to Google translate. 
>> Would this have been his name or could he have been a pastor of some kind? 
>> I'm guessing no because it's a Catholic island but then did they use that 
>> word for Catholics there?
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-GUADALUPE-B-1860-1864/GRA-SC-GUADALUPE-B-1860-1864_item1/P35.html
>>
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>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Questions about property ownership Maia, Ribeira Grande Early 1900s

[Kyle Pereira]

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 1:33:23 PM UTC-5, IslandRoutes wrote:
>
> I have a couple of questions for my cousin.  She's trying to solve some 
> family mysteries which may revolved around a piece of property in Maia, 
> Ribeira Grande.
>
> As the story goes, her grandmother went back and forth between Fall River, 
> MA and Maia a couple of times.  She had a home in Fall River but also one 
> in Maia.  I think at one point she stayed a couple of years in Maia then 
> returned to Fall River.  It is said that she had someone in Maia who took 
> care of the house for her.  She had planned to return in the 30s, but her 
> sons didn't want to go back and didn't want the house. Her sons and 
> daughters all had their own families and lives in America.
>
> She died in Fall River in 1947.  She was a widow, we think (her husband 
> disappeared in the early 1920s...divorce, died, maybe left for Canada...we 
> don't know).  Her son said that she own property in Maia.  But, when she 
> died he never bothered to do anything about it.  There was no paperwork.  
>
> First, the property would have been bought maybe 1910-1920.  Could an 
> Azorean woman one property at that time in the Azores?
>
> Second, if she really did own this property, what would have happened to 
> it when she died?  Would their have been some sort of probate process in 
> the Azores?  Would it have passed down to some relative in the Azores?  All 
> her children were in America at the time.  It does not look as if anyone 
> pursued the property by trying to claim rights or trying to sell it.  
>
> Anyone ever deal with something like this or would they have considered 
> the property abandoned after a certain amount of time and then sold by the 
> government?
>
> Thanks for any insights,
> Mel
>

"Could an Azorean woman one property at that time in the Azores?"

Yes. I have female relatives from slightly before that time who owned 
properties in the same area.

"Second, if she really did own this property, what would have happened to 
it when she died?  Would their have been some sort of probate process in 
the Azores?  Would it have passed down to some relative in the Azores?  All 
her children were in America at the time.  It does not look as if anyone 
pursued the property by trying to claim rights or trying to sell it."

Generally speaking if there is no will or claim to the property, it will be 
seized by the government and resold. If nobody claimed it, there's a decent 
chance that's what happened. As to how to go about getting that sort of 
information, I don't know. It's possible that the municipal hall in Ribeira 
Grande would have those records. I doubt they'd be available online, though.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Family Tree

[Kyle Pereira]

Thanks for the help and pointing in the right direction. I just spoke with 
my mother who remembers what her mother and grandmother told her. I'm 
fairly certain based on that conversation that the Carolina in question is 
the right one, but I'll be doing more verification wherever I can. Thanks 
again!

Also, apparently this family tree is very incomplete, but it's a great 
place to start.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Family Tree

[Kyle Pereira]

I'm new to this family research, but I did a Google search on my deceased 
maternal grandfather's name and to my surprise, someone had already 
completed my maternal lineage going back about 3 or 4 generations. However, 
some of these records don't make sense.

http://gw.geneanet.org/tavaressilva?lang=en=joao%20luis%20tavares=silva=0=joao%20barbosa%20de%20sousa=silvestre

This person, Joao Barbosa de Sousa Silvestre, is my maternal grandfather 
who recently passed away in 2013. If you follow the links, his father was 
Joao de Sousa Silvestre. His parents (my great-great grandparents) were 
Manuel de Sousa Silvestre and a "Carolina de Jesus ou Augusta" born in 1861 
in Ribeira Grande. Carolina's parents are listed as a "Jose de Sousa da 
Ponte" and "Maria Jacinta ou da Estrela". I was wondering why Carolina had 
a last name that's different from either of her listed parents, so I 
searched the baptism records for the parish of Sao Pedro in Ribeira Grande 
for 1861 and I spotted only one Carolina baptized at that church in that 
entire year, who was born on the 5 August 1861. 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-B-1860-1864/SMG-RG-RIBEIRASECA-B-1860-1864_item1/P85.html

That's the record. From what I understand, it says Carolina was born on 5 
August 1861, the firstborn legitimate daughter of Manuel Jacinto de Sousa 
and Maria Augusta. It also says she's the paternal granddaughter of Jacinto 
de Sousa and Maria de Luz, and maternal granddaughter of Manuel da Silva 
and "Jacinta" whose last name I can't make out. So questions, for anyone 
willing to help.

1. Can anyone make out Jacinta's last name? It looks like it says 
"Querbina", but I'm not 100% sure.
2. Is this person's tree wrong if the baptism records show that her parents 
are different? Or is there a possibility she was adopted? 
3. Why does there seem to be different naming conventions for men and 
women? I was under the impression it went (Given Name) (Mother's Maiden 
Name) (Father's Mother's Last Name) (Father's Father's Last Name). Most of 
the men seem to follow this convention, but the women often just take their 
mother's name? Is there a separate naming convention for women, adoptions, 
or just incorrect information in this tree?

Thanks in advance!

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