[AZORES-Genealogy] Passenger List or documents related to a sailing from Faial July 1834
Hi, I'm hoping someone can give me some guidance. Unfortunately I only speak English, so researching online public domain in the Azores is not possible. I believe that my great great grandfather, Manuel Jacinto (born on Pico and son of Manuel Jacinto Avila) arrived in Trinidad on 15 July 1834 on a British Schooner, "The Watchful" from Faial. The ship contained indentured workers for Trinidad's plantation owners. The results were disastrous for all workers and in 1835 the remaining Portuguese (some later arrived from Madeira) to be supported by the government and returned to their homelands. My great great grandfather was 10 years of age. I was hoping to confirm he was one of the passengers and find out if he was alone or travelling with family. Public records in Trinidad were destroyed in 1903 in a fire in Government house. Newspapers in Trinidad only record the number, 44, passengers, 7 women, 29 men and boys and some children. Can anyone help? Regards Michael Emmett -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Pico History and Portuguese Customs 1825
Cheri, thanks again for your help. You always seem to know the right answer or where to look. I have just discovered a couple of books I'm trying to get from Amazon on the subject too. As you have mentioned, it seems any big social changes happened after or around 1900. I think the world was possibly getting new social mores and of course, universal education was changing lives and opening new horizons for working people. I would love to visit one day, but I think that may be a year or two off yet. If anyone elso has more information I would appreciate all you might know or where to find out. Are there Universities which might specalise in studies of Azores, history and customs of the early 1800s, does anyone know? Thank again. Warm regards Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Pico History and Portuguese Customs 1825
Hi All, can anyone direct me to book(s) or information, hopefully translated into English, which describe social customs and life in general on Pico in 1825/35 when my Great grandfather Manuel Jacinto was born and left Pico? Were children of that era literate? Was school available to all? What work was expected of children under 10 years of age? Why would a ten year old leave home? Are there shipping records to Trinidad or Madeira (he possibly went to Madeira first). These are all things I would dearly like to know. I am hoping to write an historically accurate fiction based on what I know about this remarkable man. I know his parents lived and died on Pico. Though he was the oldest child he was charged with stealing a Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in December 1836, he had just turned 11. I am guessing he was there because slavery was abolished and in 1834 the plantation owners on Trinidad (probably mostly French) were looking for cheap labour to replace their slaves. The British had taken possession of Trinidad by then and Manuel was tried and sentenced under British law. He spent the next two years on a prison Hulk on the Thames in London before being "Transported" to Van Diemen's Land, now Tasmania Australia, to finish his seven years sentence (sentences were generally, hanging, 7 years or life transportation at that time). If anyone has connections with Trinidad I would be interested if any court records from that era survived and how to access them (I have written to officials in Trinidad but have not received a reply). I would be happy to have any information that would help me understand life at that time. Thank you in anticipation. Mike Emmett -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Jacinto Avila
As always Cheri, you are extremely helpful. It is very much appreciated. You are also right about DNA being a great tool and a way to meet new cousins, it has worked for me and I have made many delightful contacts around the globe. It is, however a double edged sword, so if you are not prepared to accept anything from the past, don't look. We are all human with human frailties, I've discovered that my surname (under English naming customs, ie handed down from the paternal line) only starts with my great grandfather. His father wasn't the man cited on his birth certificate and where my surname comes from (verified through numerous DNA records, which should match but don't). That doesn't change who I am of course, only what name I go by and it is still legally mine regardless. I'm now using DNA matches to try to establish what line to trace on my great grandfather's paternal line. I may never know, but it is challenging and adds to the enjoyment. Warm regards Mickey On Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:39:24 UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Hi Mickey, > > Here's an article that Kathy Cardoza and I co-wrote together on Portuguese > naming practices: https://goo.gl/4aU6sP > > We don't mention "foreign" names in our article, as "foreign" is only from > the view point of another country. Many Portuguese would consider > "Williams" to be foreign. James Guill in "A History of the Azores Islands" > has a list of surnames with their origin. It was reprinted in the American > Portuguese Genealogical and Historical Society. They are no longer around > and Guill's book is out of print. Many of us have a copy and will look up > surnames for you. > > I haven't made a list of where the surname came from, but I do find the > vast majority come from parents or grandparents. I wouldn't limit myself to > grands though. They could pick it from wherever. Some surnames I didn't > figure out. > > You are going to have to work the records back. It will state if a parent > was from a different island or country. It will take a lot of work. I've > never traced one of my non-Portuguese based surnames to another country. I > ran out of records in the Azores. I got one line to Madeira and a couple of > lines to Portugal. If you get a real good line, you'll find out that you go > to Charlemagne, but we all go back to him. Good luck, Cheri > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 1:37 AM, Mickey Blue > wrote: > >> Hi all, I've read online a bit about Portuguese naming practices. One >> article about the subject mentioned "Foreign names" used in Portuguese >> family names, and mentioned for example Bettencourt and it also Avila >> (citing it as being of Spanish origin). The article also mentioned that >> surnames could come from either parent or grandparent for that matter, but >> no further removed. My great great grandfather was Manuel Jacinto Avila, >> his father, was Domingos Antonio ( according to church records for my great >> grandfather Manuel Jacinto's birth, so I imagine the name came from his >> mother, or a grandparent). I cannot find birth records in Azores for Manuel >> Jacinto Avila or Domingos Antonio. I'm thinking that could be because they >> migrated from Spain. Can anyone suggest how I could establish if that was >> true? >> >> This is a great discussion group and I have displayed my ignorance in >> family research in the past, but everyone has been very forgiving and most >> helpful, especially Cheri and I thank you all. >> >> Warm regards >> Michael >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Manuel Jacinto Avila
Hi all, I've read online a bit about Portuguese naming practices. One article about the subject mentioned "Foreign names" used in Portuguese family names, and mentioned for example Bettencourt and it also Avila (citing it as being of Spanish origin). The article also mentioned that surnames could come from either parent or grandparent for that matter, but no further removed. My great great grandfather was Manuel Jacinto Avila, his father, was Domingos Antonio ( according to church records for my great grandfather Manuel Jacinto's birth, so I imagine the name came from his mother, or a grandparent). I cannot find birth records in Azores for Manuel Jacinto Avila or Domingos Antonio. I'm thinking that could be because they migrated from Spain. Can anyone suggest how I could establish if that was true? This is a great discussion group and I have displayed my ignorance in family research in the past, but everyone has been very forgiving and most helpful, especially Cheri and I thank you all. Warm regards Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Ancestry
Sam, not 100% sure, but you should investigate, FamilySearch.org. It is run by the Mormons and is great for research and free, but I'm not sure about their privacy policy or visitor rights. Hope that might help. Regards Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
That should be Freddy, not Freddie, sorry mate, not used to using a small screen. I have a great friend, Daniel Garcia who migrated from Uruguay to Australia many years ago and I have a Garcia DNA link,( I have been calling him cousin since I found out) I just haven't had time to explore it further, we also might be related. Warm Regards Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
Thank you so much Freddie. It astounds me the generosity of this group, it restores my faith in human nature. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
Thanks again Cheri, I'm confident at the % of Portuguese in my estimates knowing the rest of my ancestry back five or six generations. All existing documents place my great great grandfather in either Pico, Azores or Madeira (though I think Madeira was only a stepping stone) and DNA matches support the Azores origins from several sources. On his Australian marriage record he stated his place of birth as Pico, his father as Manuel Jacinto (later discovered to have the addition of Avila) and Rosa Francisca. It dovetails with records with the only exception being the year (state as 1831 on his marriage certificate). However, we know he was illiterate and also, like many other early Australian settlers, he had a convict past which was considered a great shame (unjustified given the times and the fact that England sent 160,000 convicts over a forty five year period, possibly 10% of the population when the system terminated) and therefore frequently denied or hidden. Anyway, Manuel was convicted of stealing a Frenchman's watch in 1836 in Trinidad, he was only 11 years old. As far as I can see he was the oldest child, his parents lived and died on Pico which means he was removed from all family care and influence at a very young age. Raised in a system designed to break the spirit and will with his only role models other convicts or prison guards. His life in Australia is reasonably well documented, though, according to newspaper reports, he is believed to have drowned in 1874, his body was never recovered. Though I honour all my ancestors, I have particular interest and affection for Manuel because of his indomitable spirit. I probably will do as you suggest, though my free time is limited these days, so it won't be immediately (despite being "retired", I am involved in volunteer work, which consumes much of my free time). Thank you, again, so very much for your advice and help in this matter. Warm regards Mike. On Saturday, 6 January 2018 16:40:19 UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Sorry, I'm not clear. I should have asked where you tested your DNA. > > You can most likely transfer to Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) and it's free. If > you want to see their ethnicity ESTIMATES or utilize any of FTDNA's tools, > it's $19 USD. Every company has different ethnicity ESTIMATES. I don't put > too much weight on them. It's still too early in that part of the DNA > science. You can read Judy Russell, The Legal Genealogist, explanation > here: https://goo.gl/7FYEcj > > To transfer to FTDNA, make your FTDNA account: > https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer > > Then download your raw data from Ancestry (or find it on your computer - > it's the same file you uploaded to GedMatch). Upload your raw data to FTDNA. > > After you get your matches, join the Azores DNA Project on FTDNA (with the > previous directions I sent). Hope to see you soon in the project! Cheri > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 8:59 PM, Mickey Blue > wrote: > >> Thank you Cheri, I have found family researchers to be a friendly and >> generous bunch of people. With regards the culture and customs of the time >> many things can go unchanged, even after 200 years, and I have managed to >> glean small bits of information from stories, journals, histories and ships >> logs around that time. Even a quick scan of past post can reveal much >> information. >> >> Thank you again for the great contribution you are making to this group. >> >> Warm regards. >> >> Michael >> >> On Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:39:24 UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote: >>> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> The reading of the Portuguese language records and naming practices is >>> on the Azores Genweb. It's hosted on Rootsweb and Rootsweb is down for a >>> couple of weeks. >>> >>> I don't know the cultural, social, or other customs of the 1820s in the >>> Azores. Sorry. Cheri >>> >>> Cheri Mello >>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, luiznoia . wrote: >>> >>>> How do you have his birthdate and place ? >>>> >>>> Eric Edgar >>>> >>>> On Jan 2, 2018 6:07 PM, "Mickey Blue" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao >>>>> Pico 9 December 1825, s
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
Thanks for the tip Cheri, originally my DNA was tested by Ancestry, I have added it to GEDmatch, but I'm still learning about various comparisons available. I only have 7% Iberian Peninsula DNA to work with, so have relied on matches on my maternal side, with Portuguese sounding names. I do try to verify as much as I can independently. There are some conflicting records, dates and places, and I've had to make some choices drawing the most logical conclusions I can. Your suggestion would help narrow the options. Regards Mike On Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:57:59 UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Michael, > > You need to join the Azores DNA Project. You should have your Gedcom > uploaded and be working with matches of 100 cMs or greater (on your > Portuguese side). > > Having a DNA match in the Azores, California, or Oregon doesn't mean > anything. Suppose you match me and I just got a job and now I live on Mars. > Now you have a DNA match that lives on Mars. It doesn't mean anything. > People make personal (or career) decisions on where to live. You need to > look at your blocks and work from the known to the unknown. Where your > match lives has no bearing on the matter. > > Also, all genealogists, professional or not, are human and can make > mistakes. All work should always be reverified. It would be nice if we were > all perfect, but we are not. > > Here's how to join the Azores DNA Project. > > Log into the FTDNA page with the kit number and password. > > Across the top is says: myFTDNA, DNA Tests, ProjectsPoint at Projects. > When the drop down menu appears, click "Join a project." > > If the Azores Islands appears on the top, click the link and scroll down > to the JOIN button at the end. > > If the Azores Islands is not suggested, scroll down to where it says > "Search by Surname" and type: azores. > > When Azores Islands appears, click the link and follow the directions. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Mickey Blue > wrote: > >> Hi Eric, I have a DNA match in Texas who has done some research herself >> and had some done professionally. I contributed a bit to the process. As >> regards the convict history, that is well documented here in Australia. >> There are also DNA matches in the Azores, Oregon, California and I am >> trying to do my own research by whatever means is available. I've contacted >> other DNA matches, but cannot establish the link. The internet opens a lot >> of possibilities, but family history gets very complex with each >> generation, 2 parents, four grand, eight greats etc etc. >> >> Michael >> >> >> On Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:04:36 UTC+11, luiznoia wrote: >>> >>> How do you have his birthdate and place ? >>> >>> Eric Edgar >>> >>> On Jan 2, 2018 6:07 PM, "Mickey Blue" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao >>>> Pico 9 December 1825, son of Manuel Jacinto De Avila and Rosa Francesca. I >>>> can only speak English, so I struggle with Portuguese language and naming >>>> practices, any information in that regard would much appreciated. I'm also >>>> interested in history and hope, one day, to write a novel, based on my >>>> Great great grandfather's life and times. He was charged with stealing a >>>> Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in 1836, at 11 years of age, he was tried , >>>> under British law, transported to Van Diemen's land (now Tasmania >>>> Australia) after two years on prison hulks in England. It is a tale of >>>> terrible hardship, survival and redemption. He had four daughters and >>>> through them, many hundreds of direct descendants. >>>> >>>> Naturally I'm interested in all my family history, but also would also >>>> love to know cultural, social and religious customs around 1820's. On his >>>> convict records, he was listed as being from Madeira, but I know he was >>>> born in Pico, so I think he may have arrived in Trinidad from Madeira (I >>>> believe the British recruited workers from Madeira during the transition >>>> from slavery to sate demands made by plantation owners for compensation). >>>> >>>> Kind Regards >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
Thank you Cheri, I have found family researchers to be a friendly and generous bunch of people. With regards the culture and customs of the time many things can go unchanged, even after 200 years, and I have managed to glean small bits of information from stories, journals, histories and ships logs around that time. Even a quick scan of past post can reveal much information. Thank you again for the great contribution you are making to this group. Warm regards. Michael On Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:39:24 UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > The reading of the Portuguese language records and naming practices is on > the Azores Genweb. It's hosted on Rootsweb and Rootsweb is down for a > couple of weeks. > > I don't know the cultural, social, or other customs of the 1820s in the > Azores. Sorry. Cheri > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, luiznoia . > wrote: > >> How do you have his birthdate and place ? >> >> Eric Edgar >> >> On Jan 2, 2018 6:07 PM, "Mickey Blue" > >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao >>> Pico 9 December 1825, son of Manuel Jacinto De Avila and Rosa Francesca. I >>> can only speak English, so I struggle with Portuguese language and naming >>> practices, any information in that regard would much appreciated. I'm also >>> interested in history and hope, one day, to write a novel, based on my >>> Great great grandfather's life and times. He was charged with stealing a >>> Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in 1836, at 11 years of age, he was tried , >>> under British law, transported to Van Diemen's land (now Tasmania >>> Australia) after two years on prison hulks in England. It is a tale of >>> terrible hardship, survival and redemption. He had four daughters and >>> through them, many hundreds of direct descendants. >>> >>> Naturally I'm interested in all my family history, but also would also >>> love to know cultural, social and religious customs around 1820's. On his >>> convict records, he was listed as being from Madeira, but I know he was >>> born in Pico, so I think he may have arrived in Trinidad from Madeira (I >>> believe the British recruited workers from Madeira during the transition >>> from slavery to sate demands made by plantation owners for compensation). >>> >>> Kind Regards >>> Michael >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
Hi Eric, I have a DNA match in Texas who has done some research herself and had some done professionally. I contributed a bit to the process. As regards the convict history, that is well documented here in Australia. There are also DNA matches in the Azores, Oregon, California and I am trying to do my own research by whatever means is available. I've contacted other DNA matches, but cannot establish the link. The internet opens a lot of possibilities, but family history gets very complex with each generation, 2 parents, four grand, eight greats etc etc. Michael On Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:04:36 UTC+11, luiznoia wrote: > > How do you have his birthdate and place ? > > Eric Edgar > > On Jan 2, 2018 6:07 PM, "Mickey Blue" > > wrote: > >> Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao >> Pico 9 December 1825, son of Manuel Jacinto De Avila and Rosa Francesca. I >> can only speak English, so I struggle with Portuguese language and naming >> practices, any information in that regard would much appreciated. I'm also >> interested in history and hope, one day, to write a novel, based on my >> Great great grandfather's life and times. He was charged with stealing a >> Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in 1836, at 11 years of age, he was tried , >> under British law, transported to Van Diemen's land (now Tasmania >> Australia) after two years on prison hulks in England. It is a tale of >> terrible hardship, survival and redemption. He had four daughters and >> through them, many hundreds of direct descendants. >> >> Naturally I'm interested in all my family history, but also would also >> love to know cultural, social and religious customs around 1820's. On his >> convict records, he was listed as being from Madeira, but I know he was >> born in Pico, so I think he may have arrived in Trinidad from Madeira (I >> believe the British recruited workers from Madeira during the transition >> from slavery to sate demands made by plantation owners for compensation). >> >> Kind Regards >> Michael >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Joao Lajes, Pico Azores 1820's
Hi all, I'm an Australian, descendant of Manuel Jacinto, born Sao Joao Pico 9 December 1825, son of Manuel Jacinto De Avila and Rosa Francesca. I can only speak English, so I struggle with Portuguese language and naming practices, any information in that regard would much appreciated. I'm also interested in history and hope, one day, to write a novel, based on my Great great grandfather's life and times. He was charged with stealing a Frenchman's watch in Trinidad in 1836, at 11 years of age, he was tried , under British law, transported to Van Diemen's land (now Tasmania Australia) after two years on prison hulks in England. It is a tale of terrible hardship, survival and redemption. He had four daughters and through them, many hundreds of direct descendants. Naturally I'm interested in all my family history, but also would also love to know cultural, social and religious customs around 1820's. On his convict records, he was listed as being from Madeira, but I know he was born in Pico, so I think he may have arrived in Trinidad from Madeira (I believe the British recruited workers from Madeira during the transition from slavery to sate demands made by plantation owners for compensation). Kind Regards Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
