Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
I found the marriage of Jose D'Almeida and Miguelina De Torres. (Yay!). Without all your help and learning about the way they interchanged names- I would have totally missed this record. (Maybe given up!). So, I'm confused on how to enter these names correctly in the familysearch tree or any program. Because I searched and found each of Joze and Miguelina's 8 children, I followed the name changes- mostly Miguelina switching from De Torres to De Resende.Learning about how they switched names helped me be on the lookout and not dismiss a record if the names were similar. The very last child's record introduced new names for Joze De Almeida's parents. So when I found Joze and Miguelina's marriage, I was surprised that it didn't say De Almeida! He was Joze Bottelho; a surname that I'd only seen on the record of his last born son like at midnight when I couldn't think clearly!Today, familiar name I was looking for (Joze De Almeida) showed up as Joze Botteilho. all his kids baptismal records said Joze De Almeida! And on the date of her her marriage, Miguelina gave her name as Miguelina Roza. How do I enter these multiple names? Joze's mother: At first I entered her as Francisca De Jesus but then in that last birth certificate AND in the marriage of her son, Joze, it says Francisca Botteiha (sp?) it's pretty clear but I haven't seen this spelling before.do I go back and enter her name as Francisca De Jesus Botteila. (?) maybe someone can see how it's supposed to be spelled. Miguelina: how do I enter her - Miguelina Roza De Torres? Or Miguelina Roza De Resende(?) Or both? (This will make a difference on the familysearch when people search for duplicates) Miguelina's father: all of a sudden isn't Manoel De Resende- the day his daughter was getting married; he was Manoel FURTADO! instead of Manoel De Resende(!) those are 2 surnames so I'm confused which name I enter. Below I'm posting the link for the question on spelling of Botelho - maybe the priest made a mistake (?) As always, thank you for all the direction and help. Oh how I wish I could go to conference !! Marriage is on right hand side. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-C-1800-1833/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-C-1800-1833_item1/P162.html Many thanks, Maria Elena On Mar 18, 2014, at 1:49 AM, Dano dpai...@gmail.com wrote: First off, I can't speak to what you have for Luiz d'Almeida, because, this baptism is for a child named Jose. Secondly, you don't have Pai incognito, you have (maternally) Avos incognito - in other words the mother's parents are unnamed. This is a Baptism celebrated in the Matriz of Sao Sebastiao, in the city of Ponta Delgada. The child, Jose, is the *legitimate son of Jose d'Almeida, native of the parish of Nossa Senhora da Penha da Franca, in the place Agua Retorta, and, Jenoveva da Conceicao, native of the parish of Sao Pedro, in the city of Ponta Delgada (*the parents were married). Paternal Grandparents are Jose d'Almeida and Miguelina de Resende. Maternal Grandparents, as I said above, are unnamed. The Maternal Grandparents were probably members of the social elite and frowned on their daughter marrying someone who was not. Given the names, and stations, of some of the participants, I'd say that the family was well-connected. Now, it is also likely that the Paternal Grandmother used different names, at different times - many women did so (sometimes they used their father's surname, sometimes their mother's). You can probably check that out by researching the marriage - in fact, the mother's parents may actually be named therein. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
Hi Cheri, Sometime back JR, and I shared a circumstance where the Grandparents were incognito. Since the person was not someone critical to my research, I didn't think much about it - however, in this second instance, I thought it might be worthy of mention. You correctly pointed out that I wasn't drawing a conclusion on the reason for anonymity, but, merely making an observation. Living in these more liberal times, we sometimes forget how restrictive the rules were for many of our ancestors. On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:16:25 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Maria Elena, Dano didn't say that it was a class difference and that is why the grandparents weren't named. He said it was a possibility. I've never come across that in my research. The pais incognitos that I've run into were just that - unknown. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
Yes, and when doing research, it's best to keep all possibilities open. I don't want to mislead our members who are new to genealogy! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
Hello, Dano, Thank you so much for that insight about the avos incognito of the child. So, these (grandparents of the child) didn't want their names in the record because their daughter married down? I never thought that would be one reason why parents were listed as incognito. I assumedincognito was because they were unknown maybe for moral reasons or that maybe they were orphaned. This insight cast some light on the relationship between my dear mother in law and her own mother. The mother was actually the granddaughter of the woman who was disowned by her parents because she married down.My mother in law married in Boston, a man from the Azores. They had to elope and she was 30 something because her mother would not consent to her marrying him. So, I conclude, thats what she saw as a child in the old country therefore, that's what she learned. Yes, i noticed that the godparents were indeed from the higher social class. It's the first godparents in my research that have the title Dona. I noticed it but didn't pay much attention to the circumstances behind it. Ive since learned that the father mentioned in my first email, Jose, was, in fact, a brother of Luiz D'Almeida. This is my first time coming across the person using the surname of the mother at one baptism and the father's surname on another formal ceremony. I've read that on this list so I was aware that might be the case, but I had not been tested until now. And THANK YOU for deciphering the name of the mother, the wife of Jose! That was a hard one. I appreciate all your help.Thank you. Maria Elena On Mar 18, 2014, at 1:49 AM, Dano dpai...@gmail.com wrote: First off, I can't speak to what you have for Luiz d'Almeida, because, this baptism is for a child named Jose. Secondly, you don't have Pai incognito, you have (maternal) Avos incognito - in other words the mother's parents are unnamed. This is a Baptism celebrated in the Matriz of Sao Sebastiao, in the city of Ponta Delgada. The child, Jose, is the *legitimate son of Jose d'Almeida, native of the parish of Nossa Senhora da Penha da Franca, in the place Agua Retorta, and, Jenoveva da Conceicao, native of the parish of Sao Pedro, in the city of Ponta Delgada (*the parents were married). Paternal Grandparents are Jose d'Almeida and Miguelina de Resende. Maternal Grandparents, as I said above, are unnamed. The Maternal Grandparents were probably members of the social elite and frowned on their daughter marrying someone who was not. Given the names, and stations, of some of the participants, I'd say that the family was well-connected. Now, it is also likely that the Paternal Grandmother used different names, at different times - many women did so (sometimes they used their father's surname, sometimes their mother's). You can probably check that out by researching the marriage - in fact, the mother's parents may actually be named therein. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
Maria Elena, Dano didn't say that it was a class difference and that is why the grandparents weren't named. He said it was a possibility. I've never come across that in my research. The pais incognitos that I've run into were just that - unknown. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
First off, I can't speak to what you have for Luiz d'Almeida, because, this baptism is for a child named Jose. Secondly, you don't have Pai incognito, you have (maternal) Avos incognito - in other words the mother's parents are unnamed. This is a Baptism celebrated in the Matriz of Sao Sebastiao, in the city of Ponta Delgada. The child, Jose, is the *legitimate son of Jose d'Almeida, native of the parish of Nossa Senhora da Penha da Franca, in the place Agua Retorta, and, Jenoveva da Conceicao, native of the parish of Sao Pedro, in the city of Ponta Delgada (*the parents were married). Paternal Grandparents are Jose d'Almeida and Miguelina de Resende. Maternal Grandparents, as I said above, are unnamed. The Maternal Grandparents were probably members of the social elite and frowned on their daughter marrying someone who was not. Given the names, and stations, of some of the participants, I'd say that the family was well-connected. Now, it is also likely that the Paternal Grandmother used different names, at different times - many women did so (sometimes they used their father's surname, sometimes their mother's). You can probably check that out by researching the marriage - in fact, the mother's parents may actually be named therein. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
Thanks JR. I had not come across this in a first name Yet only middle and last names. Nor Pais incognito until this. One has to be a detective ! Maria Elena On Mar 18, 2014, at 5:37 AM, JR jmro...@gmail.com wrote: Of course they can be one and the same. It is quite common to use different names. JR -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Name of the mother of Joao
Upper left hand page- for JOZE I'm was searching for children born to Luiz D'Almeida from the parish in Agua Retorta in Sao Miguel, (the same exact parish as is mentioned in this record) and his wife Luiza de Jesus. However, I came across this record where the names of the grandparents are so similar, that I wondered if Luiz D'Almeida is a brother to Jose D'Almeida. the name of the parents for both Luiz and Jose are both Jose D'Almeida and both men's mother is Miguelina. However, For Luiz the mother is Miguelina De Torres and for this Jose the mother is Miguelina de Resende (?) if I read it correctly.Miguelina is not a common name so I wonder if it IS the same person, it's,possible she used both names: De Torres and De Resende. Any thoughts? Can anyone help me out with the name of the mother of the baby in this record, please? The best I could make out was Jesnivea de Concinco(?). I know that doesn't make sense) There's several coincidences: both men came from the same parish; both men have a father with the same name and a mother with the same first name which is an uncommon name and both men had wives with Pais incognitos. Ugh!(So I came across my first encounter with Pais incognito and I don't know if that's going to mean I hit a dead end.). It's a shame because it's my husband's great grandmother Here's the record. I appreciate any help. Thank you http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-B-1857-1860/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-B-1857-1860_item1/P67.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
